Encounters: The UFO Phenomenon, Exposed!/Encounters - The UFO Phenomenon, Exposed (1995).iso/altalien/alt05.txt

Internet Message Format | 1995-10-20 | 1MB

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From: [e-mail] (John of Gaunt)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Mar 92 02:07:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes...
>In article <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]> writes...
>>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
>>(Tom Hamill) says:
>>>
>>>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
>>>>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
>>>>>> In article [e-mail] (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>>>>>> >In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >Evolution is god!
>>>>>> Sanitation is fraud:
>>>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
>>>>Santa Claus baits God.
>>>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
>>>Satin draws mates bod.
>>I sat in Ward's tame knob.
>I set a weird time bomb.
So Satan ran home!
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From: [e-mail] (Jon Noring)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: pts
Message-ID: <tp![e-mail]>
Date: 20 Mar 92 02:42:41 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
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In article Craig.O'[e-mail] (Craig O'Neill) writes:
>This is probably the wrong area but I couldn't find the right one as I am
>only new to the board. Can you tell me how I get points for downloads and
>what is the upload/download ratio on this board. Thanks.
>
>Got to Fly BYE BYE

If you subscribe now, not only will you get points, but you'll get Ktel's
famous cheese slicer at no extra charge.  Hurry up, supplies won't last!
Also, if you subscribe now, we'll even throw in an upload/download ratio of
infinity.

To subscribe, send $100,000 (U.S.) in small bills to:

Internet/Cheese Slicer Offer
P.O. Box 1234
Gary, Indiana 45678, USA

(p.s. Welcome to the Internet!  Land of 10,000 Flakes.)

Ignore the signature below.  Jon Noring did not write this, just his agent.

--
=============================================================================
| Jon Noring          | [e-mail] | "The dogs bark, but the  |
| JKN International   | IP    : 192.100.81.100   |  caravan moves on."      |
| 1312 Carlton Place  | Phone : [phone]   | "Pack your lunch, sit in |
| Livermore, CA 94550 | V-Mail: [phone]   |  the bushes, and watch." |
=============================================================================
"If you make $50,000 today, you have the same buying power as the average
coal miner did in 1949, adjusted for taxes and inflation," John Sestina,
nationally recognized Certified Financial Planner;  quoted in 1987.
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From: [e-mail] (pete)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations)
Summary: SR and space travel times
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Mar 92 03:01:00 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]>,
 [e-mail] (Daryl Essam) writes...
>In article <=[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jon Noring) writes:
>> In [e-mail] (Jennifer Bolt) writes:
>>
>> >Wake up, The universe is too big, and the distances too great for aliens to
>> >travel back and forth, that is from the Earth back to where ever.  So no
>> >aliens have probably come to Earth, although it is almost definite that
>> >life must exist elsewhere...
>>
>> If the only way to travel from one point in the universe to another point
>> is to move through the space between the points, then Jennifer is correct
>> because, according to Relativity (either SR or GR), and backed up with
>> much experimental evidence, no object of mass can travel through
>> space greater
>> than (or even equal to, in reality) the speed of light in a vacuum.
>>
>> However, has it ever occured to you that it may be possible to alter space
>> itself and reduce or even eliminate the space between any two points
>> in space?
>>
>    <stuff deleted>
>    I tend to think of this as wishful thinking. Relativity
>  is quite depressing, and I wish it did not hold, but at the moment I think
>that given the current evidence. Its reasonable to assume that it does.
>
>    However, who is to say that a journey that takes a hundred, even a
>thousand years would be considered unreasonable by an alien race. Just some
>of the possible options are;
>
>    It is a possiblity that an alien race could enter a state of suspended
>animation, either artificially; or it could be an inate ability, in a similar
>manner to how some animals hybernate.
>
>    Or, if the race had a long life-span, say a million years or greater,
>they could consider a trip to Earth to be the equivalent of having to drive
>for an hour to get to work. Or as per 200 years ago, when it took 9 months
>(ie 1-2% of their lifetime) to get from England to Australia.
>
>    I'm just saying that the argument seems to be that it takes too long
>to go anywhere in space, but too long is a relative term.
>                                DE

Something you all may be neglecting is that the elapsed time of an object
travelling near the speed of light is (distance)/(~c) only for the
observer in the planetary frame observing the object going past. For
an observer in the object (craft), velocity and distance behave in a
purely Newtonian fashion, ie. continuing acceleration yields increasing
speed with no limitation, so that several lightyears can be traversed
in a matter of weeks. The only problem is that after decelerating back
to the planetary reference frame, the traveller discovers that some
large number of years have elapsed in that frame. Whether that is a
problem depends on the traveller's psychological disposition. It's
just the same as the twin 'paradox'. If you don't mind missing a few
hundred years of history, it's no big deal.


===========================================================================
A cynic's world is comprised                          Pete Vincent
of fools and other cynics
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From: [e-mail] (Russ Taylor)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.scientology,alt.sex
Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Mar 92 03:13:38 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
[Intervening drivel removed]
>>He rode the May Day WASPS.
>She ate the Payday wrapper.
>
>
>GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH.  I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT.
>YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*.
>
>
>
Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you
added your ten cents?  A thousand-degree flame on you!

(homey don't play dat!)

btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth?
And why is this a waste of it?

Russ "gremlins" Taylor
[e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Jennifer Bolt)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: ANTAHKARANA: The Star People Connection
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Mar 92 00:22:12 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Walter D. Pullen) writes:
>
>                ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
>                ||                                      ||
>                ||    A Plan for Sharing and Growing    ||
>                ||             ANTAHKARANA,             ||
>                ||      THE STAR PEOPLE CONNECTION      ||
>                ||                                      ||
>                ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
>
>      In the year of 1984, a group energy concept called Antahkarana
> was given to the planet. In the ensuing years many phases of the Star
> People Connection have been pursued to the present moment. Now the
> plans for expansion are appropriate.
>

I would like to know what rational person would take this stuff seriously.
Please feel free to email me and explain why.  This is as bad as
channeling. (or was this plan created by a "higher being".
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Zontar?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Mar 92 23:31:05 GMT
Organization: LOYOLA MARYMOUNT UNIV - CENTER FOR ACADEMIC COMPUTING
Lines: 7

I hear strange stories that there is a psychic in Europe you claims to able to
communicate spiritually with an alien being named Zontar?  I've read vague repo
rts also that he communicates with him through a sort of space operator?  What
is this all about?

Bewildered,
Nora
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From: [e-mail] (Walter D. Pullen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Antahkarana: Further Information
Summary: Excerpts from Antahkarana materials
Keywords: Antahkarana
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Mar 92 11:36:02 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
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     For those that have been expressing interest in my earler post
introducing the spiritual group of Antahkarana, as well as those
interested in such related material in general, I have three spiritual
messages I would like to share, each which happens to be related to
Antahkarana in that they were either received or written by people
related to the group.

     The first is a very short channeled message received by Arasia,
the group founder (who was also the Seattle, WA anchor for the 11:11),
on January 10, 1992 (i.e. the day before the Activation itself). I
have included it at the end of this article. The second and third are
extraterrestrial related material and are in separate articles (in
alt.alien.visitors). The second article is an examination of the ET
phenomena written by Arasia, looking at how we interpret "good" vs.
"bad" alien visitors. (Note that it starts out "Today March 20th is
the Spring Equinox", but that is just a coincidence in that it was
written exactly a year ago!) The last article is a channeled message
from the Ashtar Command itself, received by Jean Peterson (the author
of the book "Oneness Remembered"), related to a gathering that took
place on 11-11-1990 where a "petitioning" of the Space Brotherhood for
readmission of Earth to the Intergalactic Confederation took place.

     Again, if any of these articles have piqued your curiosity and
you wish to explore the topics further, feel free to contact me at my
e-mail address, or Arasia at ANTAHKARANA, The Star People Connection,
501 N. 36th St. #140, Seattle, WA 98103. Thank you for taking the time
to listen and to share.

_______________________________________________________________________

CHANNELED MESSAGE REGARDING THE 11:11 AND THE IMPORTANCE OF DISCERNMENT

     My Dear Ones,

     It is with great joy and anticipation that we of the heavenly
hosts watch from above at the tremendous awakening and quickening of
spirit. We open our hearts and our arms to you as you prepare to make
your ascension into our midst. Your agreements and ours have existed
for a very long time and as you start to stir and remember your true
place in the stars you will find your lives will start to go more
smoothly. It is important not to loose sight of the true significance
of this awakening and this day.

     There are two doors to be opened. To focus on just the external
one would be a great mistake. The door within your being is the
eternally significant one. There is much work to be done as you reach
for the hands of your brothers and sisters who have yet to awaken to
their diving heritage.

     The personal and planetary ascension is available from everyone,
not a select few. Beware of the pitfalls of glamour and cliquishness
and believing you are the only chosen ones.

     The Father wishes to gather all of his sheep and I as shepard ask
your assistance in completing that task. I work with my brothers of
all faiths and belief systems as on the higher realms we are all One.

     I stand along with Michael and his legions of Angels, your Guides
and Teachers and Masters of the Spiritual Hierarchy of this planet. We
also serve with the beloved brothers and sisters of the Intergalactic
Confederation who serve diligently and watch over the Mother with
vigilance as she goes through her great birthing process as the great
Plan of the creative Source is brought to fruition. We all serve the
radiant one of our being together as one with you.

     I AM your elder brother, JESUS THE CHRIST, known in the celestial
realms as SANANDA inviting you to enter the house of many mansions.

--
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From: [e-mail] (Walter D. Pullen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Antahkarana: An Examination Of The ET Phenomena
Keywords: Antahkarana
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Mar 92 11:39:50 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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                  MAKING SENSE OUT OF NON-SENSE
               A Closer Look At The E.T. Phenomena
                            By Arasia

     Today, March 20th is the Spring Equinox. To quote a familiar
saying, "Spring is busting out all over". Since the 1990's have
arrived something else has been busting out all over. The concern over
the possibility that we are being taken over by alien intelligences
that have been allowed into Earth's domain by our government.

     The topic of conversation in some New Age circles, as well as in
the camps of our more Fundamentalist brethren is that we have been
sold out to the aliens, and they are having us for dinner, stealing
our children, abducting our neighbors, and in general submitting us to
all kinds of outlandish sexual perversions. There is too much of this
talk and fear for us to any longer push this topic of conversation
under the table, for fear we might call forth these energies and then
these awful things may happen to us.

     Knowledge is always the best defense against an attack, real or
imagined. There are far too many of these incidents for us to continue
to waste our time on the discussion of whether these alleged attacks
are true. They are certainly true for the people they have happened
to. We as concerned caring people may want to get to the bottom of
what is happening to our brothers and sisters. Ignoring something
never makes it go away. It just finds a more subtle way to get into
our consciousness.

     Many New Agers have a belief that it is necessary to always stay
in positive energy and to never discuss anything that smacks of the
negative, because they may pull it to them. I submit this is only true
if fear energy is given to the discussion. Let us look at the part
that these energies play in the planetary awakening. Also, what they
are mirroring to us about our existence. That would be much healthier
than responding out of fear or denial.

     We can also consider that it will not be necessary for us to
participate in the reality of what is happening to others. Consider
the possibility that we draw to us whatever is appropriate for our
vibrational level. It is possible that those who are having these
experiences may not be pulling in adequate White Light protection.

     Mankind has a very peculiar way of learning: The belief in "No
pain, no gain." For many years the ET's have been trying to get our
attention. This is not a new phenomena. Polarities seem to be
necessary for us to come into balance. Thus, the friendly and
unfriendly ET's.

     My friends, could it be that the ET phenomena is spirit in
packaged form? Could it be that in Biblical times they were the Angels
and Demons with which mankind interacted? Now could these same types
of events be the extra-terrestrials? And could they still be trying to
get our attention to remind us of our divine heritage, as divine
beings who have come from the stars to be spirit in action?

     One possible way of looking at these events is to consider that
we are all a cell of the Divine, setting out to experience itself.
What are all the possibilities that can be expressed by God? A grand
cosmic soap opera is one way of looking at this. Another is that we
may be simultaneous essences of these beings functioning in this now
point. I have had a message that, "We are them and they are us".
Interesting concept, is it not? I have also gotten the message that,
"We are the ships". Are we creating a new myth?

     Another possibility is that in the cosmos there are as many
beings at many different levels of evolvement as we have on Earth.
Could many of these beings be coming to explore, observe and interact
with us, as we do when we send out expeditions to do cross cultural
studies or colonize other nations?

     I believe that all these possibilities are true. Consider the
probability that at this time in our history we are being visited by
many different entities from many different systems and universes.
Some of these beings are here to help, some to hinder and some to
observe.

     It may be thought of as akin to a cosmic Superbowl. As the time
draws nigh for the master, major, and minor astrological cycles to end
we may be being reminded that what we are referencing as strange
happenings are a reminder that the planetary and personal ascension is
at hand. Could it be that all these beings, even those that we
reference as negative are just mirroring to us our states of
consciousness so that we can clean up our act in time for the big
party? Maybe it's time to clean house for the Big Event.

     If we can learn to look at the ET happenings with delight and
appreciation and learn to love all of our brethren and realize, "As
Above, So Below", and "As Within, So Without" we will be able to get
through this time with joy, rather than fear. Let's learn to love all
aspects of creation. There may be lessons in all of this for us.
Looking at the dark side in others will help us to see the dark side
in ourselves as well.

     As the Whales and Dolphins agreed to give their lives so that we
may see what we are doing to our planet, it may be that the Grey ET's
are mirroring to us how we treat our fellow man. Labeling the Grey
ET's as bad and the blond ET's as good could be an oversimplification.

--
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From: [e-mail] (Walter D. Pullen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Antahkarana: A Channeled Message From The Ashtar Command
Keywords: Antahkarana
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Mar 92 11:44:56 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Washington Computer Science
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                        ASHTAR COMMUNIQUE
                  "STAR BROTHER, EARTH BROTHER"
     Messenger: Jean Peterson, author of "Oneness Remembered"


     I, ASHTAR, of the Confederation of Free Planets of this local
universe, greet you, One and All, in the name of the Creator God and
Lord Jesus Christ/Sananda, our commander in chief.

     We of the Councils would like to take this opportunity to inform
you of a project of cooperation between the Interstellar Command, the
Planetary Hierarchy, and Antahkarana. We have directed those of
Antahkarana to assist man of Earth in examining his own heart and mind.
This will entail the cooperation, the interlinking of the energies of
the third and higher dimensions, extending to the Creator God.

     We plan to cooperate in establishing this link in a
technological, pragmatic, twentieth century working relationship. One
way this cooperation between dimensions can become a reality, is for
Earthman, in the majority, to invite us to land openly on your planet.
To interfere in the affairs of man without an invitation is in
violation of the interplanetary law. We feel that physical evidence
can pivot the balance of mankind into RIGHT THINKING AND RIGHT ACTION.
This unity can then bring about a vibration high enough so that Mother
Earth can progress forward into the next state of her evolution.

     We have begun to establish a networking community of cooperation
among light workers across the globe of Earth. The purpose is to
combine energies so that the combined light of all light workers will
form an even larger concentric circle. Through this interlinking they
will be reaching a helping hand connecting those of the higher
frequency to all Earth brothers.

     In this way we hope to alleviate the tension, the tears, the
agony of Earth people as they attune themselves to the incoming
energies of that called by the prophets of old, "The End Times". As
these energies wash over the land of Earth, all will receive or reject
them as to the level of development they have attained spiritually. We
hope with the emphasis on unity, to be of assistance to those of Earth
who are feeling the residue of tension, anger, hurt, and dismay at the
perceived chaos in their lives.

     We wish to inform those of Earth who work with us: Now is the
time to unite into the oneness of purpose that will require of you to
create the vibration for us to land. We wish you to lay aside any
personal, petty behavior, beliefs, attitudes, and emotions that you
have created for each other and join hands, minds and hearts in the
joint endeavor between dimensions. As in the movie "E.T.", when the
finger of the alien E.T. touches the finger of Earthman, so can the
energies of higher frequencies reach and work with those in the third
dimension. We wish to create this link with all of you in a stronger
more personal way.

     We are offering you this opportunity to create a happening on
Earth of a magnitude that will change the destiny of man away from
that of materialism and aggression, and propel him into his next stage
of evolution in an easy way. This can be accomplished my brothers and
sisters of Earth, with the combined energies of the higher frequencies,
the Interstellar Commands and collective mankind. Man's continued
insensitivity to the way he treats his fellow man and Mother Earth has
the potential to create a cataclysm of a magnitude that can literally
shift the poles of the Earth and eliminate life as you know it.

     We wish to offer this helping hand to you, our brothers and
sisters of Earth, by offering to land openly on your planet, BY
INVITATION and sharing the knowledge we have gained with you. Then you
too, may live, and be in peace, love and brotherhood together with all
of creation, linked to us and beyond to the Creator God.

     I AM ASHTAR, your star brother of the planet Venus working with
you my Earth brothers to assist Earth in her transformation into the
higher frequencies of understanding known as the higher dimensions, or
the Golden Age of man. So be it, Adonai, Adonai, Adonai!

--
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Censor
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Mar 92 11:06:37 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: NMS&Systems Engineering
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To: djk
Subject: Re: The Censor
From: djk (Daniel J. Karnes)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Wed, 18 Mar 92 17:28:34 PST
In-Reply-To: <[e-mail]>

Path: ctedge!netcomsv!decwrl!mips!sdd.hp.com!usc!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!hsdndev!dartvax!mars.caps.maine.edu!maine.maine.edu!eema092
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal
Subject: The Censor
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Mar 92 20:06:46 GMT
Organization: University of Maine System
Lines: 19


There's this strange phenomenon I and some of my friends have experienced
before, and I was just wondering if anyone else has ever run into this. I (we)
call it the Cosmic Censor, for lack of a better name.

What usually happens is this. We'll be having a conversation, and it will turn
philosophical. Often the philosophical angle gets quite deep. A certain level
of excitement will build up if we start to feel we're "onto something" (ie
some fundemental truth). Almost always, as one of us is about to say the next
most obvious thing, a presence will make itself known. A definite chill enters
the air, and there is a sense that this "visitor" is waiting to see what is
spoken next. It's totally freaky, and tends to bring such conversations to a
quick halt. This is why we named it the Censor.

Sounds pretty strange, I know. It may just be some sort of group trance-out
thing, or something, I don't know, that's why I'm asking here if others have
encountered it. Email responses are fine w/me.

jeff, eema092@maine
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From: [e-mail] (Steve Franklin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Antahkarana: A Channeled Message From The Ashtar Command
Keywords: Antahkarana
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Mar 92 13:46:12 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News)
Organization: Math, Stats & CS, Dalhousie University, Halifax, NS, Canada
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Nntp-Posting-Host: ug.cs.dal.ca

Oh my God... I knew I subscribed to this group for a reason...
THis guy quoted E.T. in his prophesy? Holy cow... Also, if this
group promises us so much, can they guarantee that we won't have
to contend with another tele-evangelist ever? Now that would be
something to worship...
   I guess I should be impressed that ASHTAR watches tv though...
It's neat that Venus gets cable... I think this guy is just
sucking up to us because he wants ethernet of his own... Much more
relaxing then sending brain signals millions of miles across space
to his "star brothers" (sexist ass! no women huh?)
   steve (who gets channeled messages like these after a good night
          of drinking)
--
aasdSteveFranklin-Subliminal Psychology Major.ks;dlasBlueJaysRULEkasdfeahsdbfl
sd;lfaswoq[eBuyMeAQuadra!!!mbnZMXCNdfsba;KdSPAMiuroqiyetIBMSuxiweuryth'ewr;mxn
qpuepriuPartyOneqtuj;,n.,xnc,kjasFlameMeNot!;lkj;lkgkjd;askElvisLivesjhfquweru
[e-mail],sk;t;lrut[[e-mail],Physics!eq3rwkh;oHA
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!news.nd.edu![e-mail]
From: [e-mail] (Sean Donnelly)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Zontar?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Mar 92 13:47:33 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Distribution: na
Organization: University of  Notre Dame-Multi Media Lab
Lines: 22

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>
> I hear strange stories that there is a psychic in Europe you claims to able to
> communicate spiritually with an alien being named Zontar?  I've read vague repo
> rts also that he communicates with him through a sort of space operator?  What
> is this all about?
>
> Bewildered,
> Nora
>
>

Yes, this person does exist, as I've seen an article on him in the London Times
Sunday supplement. Apparently he goes into a trance and channels the alien, Zontar
Zontar, according to the psychic, has no plans for planetary conquest. In fact,
Zontar claims he's been communicating with Earthlings for centuries. He also
suggests that humans may have descended from his race.

Any other info on Zontar out there?


SeanD
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Abducted while driving?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Mar 92 02:50:03 GMT
Lines: 27


    Tell me what you think...

    I was driving home from my girlfriend's house on a country
back-road late one night, probably two or three o'clock in the m
morning.
    Anyway, when you're driving down this back road, you
have to stop at this somewhat major intersection that has a
four-way stop. The road you cross is a somewhat busy road, and
you just can't miss it because it's very well lit due to there being
several accidents in that area, because people drive like maniacs.
    So, I'm on my way home and the song "You Make Me So Very
Happy" comes on the radio as I go over the top of one of many hills
along this old road.
    So I'm drivin'. And drivin'. And drivin'. And I'm thinking,
where the hell is this four-way stop. It should be here soon, shouldn't
it?
    Suddenly, I come over the next hill and I beside this old grave-
yard where I always turn off to go to my house. Only, this graveyard is
at least five miles away from this four-way stop. Also, the song that
had just come on the radio was suddenly over.
    My girlfriend thinks I slept through the four-way stop, but
I really don't think so. It's too far of a distance to sleep through.

Any thoughts? This happened about three years ago.

Nik
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!morale
From: [e-mail] (Enrique Morales)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Abducted while driving?
Message-ID: <6vgtm#[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Mar 92 17:08:20 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 51
Nntp-Posting-Host: sage4b.its.rpi.edu

[e-mail] writes:
>    Tell me what you think...

>    I was driving home from my girlfriend's house on a country
>back-road late one night, probably two or three o'clock in the m
>morning.
>    Anyway, when you're driving down this back road, you
>have to stop at this somewhat major intersection that has a
>four-way stop. The road you cross is a somewhat busy road, and
>you just can't miss it because it's very well lit due to there being
>several accidents in that area, because people drive like maniacs.
>    So, I'm on my way home and the song "You Make Me So Very
>Happy" comes on the radio as I go over the top of one of many hills
>along this old road.
>    So I'm drivin'. And drivin'. And drivin'. And I'm thinking,
>where the hell is this four-way stop. It should be here soon, shouldn't
>it?
>    Suddenly, I come over the next hill and I beside this old grave-
>yard where I always turn off to go to my house. Only, this graveyard is
>at least five miles away from this four-way stop. Also, the song that
>had just come on the radio was suddenly over.
>    My girlfriend thinks I slept through the four-way stop, but
>I really don't think so. It's too far of a distance to sleep through.

>Any thoughts? This happened about three years ago.

>Nik

If anybody comes up with any theories, I'd like to know also.
I drive long distances very often and this has happened at least three
times that I can remember. Another time, I was driving and listening to
a cassette. I'll admit I was very tired, but the next thing I remember
is that I was further down the road and the tape sounded as if it was
in fast forward (same as when you press play & FF on players). I hit
the eject button and checked the tape and it was fine. I put it back
and it played fine the rest of the time.
    I've driven from N.Y. to Ca. and back. I've driven up and down
the east coast. I make frequent trips between Albany and Boston and
between Albany and NYC. No matter how tired I am I never fall asleep.
I've driven with others before so I know. These things only happen when
I'm alone.
    I had entertained the idea that it was my subconscious driving
while I slept(knowing where the road from having traveled so much and
being able to drive with my eyes closed), but some of these roads I
hadn't driven in before.


Enrique
aka juggler

P.S. e-mail me or post which ever..
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!morale
From: [e-mail] (Enrique Morales)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Mar 92 17:24:12 GMT
References: <=[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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[e-mail] (pete) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]>,
> [e-mail] (Daryl Essam) writes...
>>In article <=[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jon Noring) writes:
>>> In [e-mail] (Jennifer Bolt) writes:
>>>
>>> >Wake up, The universe is too big, and the distances too great for aliens to
>>> >travel back and forth, that is from the Earth back to where ever.  So no
>>> >aliens have probably come to Earth, although it is almost definite that
>>> >life must exist elsewhere...

you are making an error here.Just because the set of all even numbers is
infinite, it doesn't mean that one of them "is almost definetly" odd. This
is the same as what you are saying that just because there are an infinite
number of worlds one of them "is almost definetly" inhabited.At most you can
only say that it is possible, not "almost definite."

>>> If the only way to travel from one point in the universe to another point
>>> is to move through the space between the points, then Jennifer is correct
>>> because, according to Relativity (either SR or GR), and backed up with
>>> much experimental evidence, no object of mass can travel through
>>> space greater
>>> than (or even equal to, in reality) the speed of light in a vacuum.
>>>
>>> However, has it ever occured to you that it may be possible to alter space
>>> itself and reduce or even eliminate the space between any two points
>>> in space?

    I think that you have been reading too much _Dune_( or watched the
    movie one too many times).

>>    <stuff deleted>
>>    I tend to think of this as wishful thinking. Relativity
>>  is quite depressing, and I wish it did not hold, but at the moment I think
>>that given the current evidence. Its reasonable to assume that it does.
>>
>>    However, who is to say that a journey that takes a hundred, even a
>>thousand years would be considered unreasonable by an alien race. Just some
>>of the possible options are;
>>
>>    It is a possiblity that an alien race could enter a state of suspended
>>animation, either artificially; or it could be an inate ability, in a similar
>>manner to how some animals hybernate.

... now you are getting to some believable stuff.


>>    Or, if the race had a long life-span, say a million years or greater,
>>they could consider a trip to Earth to be the equivalent of having to drive
>>for an hour to get to work. Or as per 200 years ago, when it took 9 months
>>(ie 1-2% of their lifetime) to get from England to Australia.
>>
>>    I'm just saying that the argument seems to be that it takes too long
>>to go anywhere in space, but too long is a relative term.
>>                                DE

Wow!! A good conclusion.

>Something you all may be neglecting is that the elapsed time of an object
>travelling near the speed of light is (distance)/(~c) only for the
>observer in the planetary frame observing the object going past. For
>an observer in the object (craft), velocity and distance behave in a
>purely Newtonian fashion, ie. continuing acceleration yields increasing
>speed with no limitation, so that several lightyears can be traversed
>in a matter of weeks. The only problem is that after decelerating back
>to the planetary reference frame, the traveller discovers that some
>large number of years have elapsed in that frame. Whether that is a
>problem depends on the traveller's psychological disposition. It's
>just the same as the twin 'paradox'. If you don't mind missing a few
>hundred years of history, it's no big deal.

Hear, Hear!!
This is more like it!!!

Enrique
aka juggler

=================================================
||   ever heard of tachyons??(sp.)             ||
||     no, they have written to me.            ||
=================================================
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!bible
From: [e-mail] (Anthony E Bible)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Mar 92 18:22:00 GMT
References: <=[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Lines: 44
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5015 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1198

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (pete) writes:

stuff about long distances and alien creature's traits deleted.

>
>Something you all may be neglecting is that the elapsed time of an object
>travelling near the speed of light is (distance)/(~c) only for the
>observer in the planetary frame observing the object going past. For
>an observer in the object (craft), velocity and distance behave in a
>purely Newtonian fashion, ie. continuing acceleration yields increasing
>speed with no limitation, so that several lightyears can be traversed
>in a matter of weeks. The only problem is that after decelerating back
>to the planetary reference frame, the traveller discovers that some
>large number of years have elapsed in that frame. Whether that is a
>problem depends on the traveller's psychological disposition. It's
>just the same as the twin 'paradox'. If you don't mind missing a few
>hundred years of history, it's no big deal.
>
>

    Pete makes a good point here.  It may not be long in your local time,
but, then again, better make sure you don't leave anything behind.

    I'd also like to add a little arithmetic to the discussion, and solicit
criticism of my simple-minded analysis -- *if* solicitation is required.
(Sorry about the units, but it's been a long time since I did Physics and such,
and I do not recall the numbers in mks.)

    c = 186,000 miles/sec = 9.82 * 10^8 feet/sec
    g = 32.2 ft/sec^2
    t = c / g = 30.5 * 10^6 seconds = 353 days

    It appears to me that it would take about a year (local time) to get up
to speed (and another year to get down from speed) if you could sustain an
acceleration of one earth-gravity.  I guess if you get close enough to the
speed of light the transit time becomes negligible, so it would take about a
couple years, and that does not seem too bad.  'Course you could reduce the
time by increasing the g's, but that takes us back to alternate biology for the
aliens.
    This leads me to wonder what you can burn that will produce 1-g for two
years.  Perhaps dilithium crystals ...

Regards,
tony
Path: ns-mx!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!amdahl!JUTS!duts!dfs30
From: [e-mail] (Denise Solis)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Abducted while driving?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Mar 92 18:50:17 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Denise)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA
Lines: 23

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
>    Tell me what you think...
>
>    I was driving home from my girlfriend's house on a country
>back-road late one night, probably two or three o'clock in the m
>morning..................................
>............................................... Only, this graveyard is
>at least five miles away from this four-way stop. Also, the song that
>had just come on the radio was suddenly over.

Don't worry too much Nik, an abduction would take longer that a five mile
drive and one song. People have been known (myself included) to fall
asleep with their eyes open and the good ol' subconcious knows the way
home.Think you were asleep behind the wheel. That is unless of course
you were abducted and the aliens threw you back :-)


--
=========================================================================
  All poetry posted is Copyright protected, anything else is just talk.
  "Tis true; theres magic in the web of it." [e-mail]
=========================================================================
Path: ns-mx!uunet!timbuk.cray.com!shamash!duke!dternes
From: [e-mail] (David Ternes)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Abducted while driving?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Mar 92 19:45:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <6vgtm#[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (David Ternes)
Organization: Advanced Product Development
Lines: 13

In article <6vgtm#[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Enrique Morales) writes:
>
>If anybody comes up with any theories, I'd like to know also.
>
I don't know.  But I've found myself in another room in my house without
remembering how I got there or why I went there except that I was looking
for something.

Sheesh, maybe I got abducted and they forget which room I was in.  Or maybe,
just maybe, I was tired or thinking about other problems and became a little
absent-minded.

-david
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!mercury.unt.edu!sol.acs.unt.edu!cgw
From: [e-mail] (christopher williams)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.scientology,alt.sex
Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Mar 92 20:59:04 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (UNT USENet Adminstrator)
Organization: University of North Texas
Lines: 46
Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2413 alt.alien.visitors:5018 alt.religion.scientology:1883 alt.sex:59390
Originator: [e-mail]

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Neal Johnson) writes:
>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>>>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) writes...
>>>>In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>>>>>And then in [e-mail] (Daniel Dise) said...
>>>>>% In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>>>>>% >In article [e-mail] (Michael Wasylik) writes...
>>>>>% >>In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>>>>>% >>>And then in [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) said...
>>>>>% >>>% In article <[e-mail]> writes...
>>>>>% >>>% >In article [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) says:
>>>>>% >>>% >>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>% >>>% >>>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
>>>>>% >>>% >>>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
>>>>>% >>>% >>>>> In article [e-mail] (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>>>>>% >>>% >>>>> >In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>% >>>% >>>>>
>>>>>% >>>% >>>>> >>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
>>>>>% >>>% >>>>>
>>>>>% >>>% >>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it!
>>>>>% >>>% >>>>>
>>>>>% >>>% >>>>> >Evolution is god!
>>>>>% >>>% >>>>> Sanitation is fraud:
>>>>>% >>>% >>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
>>>>>% >>>% >>>Santa Claus baits God.
>>>>>% >>>% >>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
>>>>>% >>>% >>Satin draws mates bod.
>>>>>% >>>% >I sat in Ward's tame knob.
>>>>>% >>>% I set a weird time bomb.
>>>>>% >>>I shed a weird tie, Bob...
>>>>>% >>I shot a wet teen babe.
>>>>>% >Izod's a wasp trend, Biff.
>>>>>% I drove off a west end cliff
>>>>>I rode to arrest a lift.
>>>>Electrodes tie my wrists.
>>>Erode the Mai Tai wisps.
>>He rode the May Day WASPS.
>She ate the Payday wrapper.
Shit! The paper clapper!

-cgw-

--
christopher williams   [e-mail]  [phone]
lead programmer/operator, university of north texas
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!wupost!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!rm105serve.sas.upenn.edu!nmehl
From: [e-mail] (Nathan J. Mehl)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.scientology,alt.sex
Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]:920320#119#135705>
Date: 20 Mar 92 21:59:31 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Followup-To: alt.postmodern
Organization: University of Pennsylvania
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Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2414 alt.alien.visitors:5019 alt.religion.scientology:1884 alt.sex:59418
Nntp-Posting-Host: rm105serve.sas.upenn.edu

Goddamnit!  If you are going to insist on continuing this thing, could
you at *least* keep it filed under the same header so that when I
kill it, it stays killed?

Grrrr....

**************************************************************************
*    -Nathan J. Mehl-     * Destined to be the only queer Guns'n'Roses   *
* [e-mail] * fan on the planet. And probably deserves it. *
**************************************************************************
Path: ns-mx!uunet!olivea!apple![e-mail]
From: [e-mail] (Lefty)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 21 Mar 92 00:17:16 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Our Lady of Heavy Artillery
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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5020 alt.pagan:13667 alt.paranormal:4679 talk.religion.newage:9862

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Gerald Bryan
(Denver)) writes:
>
> From an enlightened point of view (no, I'm not speaking from personal
> experience, just repeating what I've read, like a trained dog), the inner
> and the outer are the same.

Heh.

Joshu was walking in the courtyard of the monastery, when he heard two monks
discussing the nature of reality.

He pointed to a large boulder, and asked the monks whether the rock existed
independently or only in their minds.

After conferring briefly, one of the monks replied, "From an enlightened
point of view, I would have to say that the boulder is in my mind."

"Your head must be very heavy if you have a boulder that size in there,"
replied Joshu.

--
Lefty ([e-mail])
C:.M:.C:., D:.O:.D:.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!network.ucsd.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!uicvm.uic.edu!u37460
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: exploding heads?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Mar 92 19:51:14 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Lines: 17

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
(christopher williams) says:
>can people's heads REALLY explode? i heard this on the news yesterday.
>
On some occasions, yes.  See, you put a pop a cherry bomb in their mouth
light it, and wait, oh, say 10 seconds and then BOOM, their head explodes.
Hope this helps.
>-cgw-
>
>--
>christopher williams   [e-mail]  [phone]
>lead programmer/operator, university of north texas
* RRRR     A    V     V  EEEEE  is life.  Ethan Haslett    DJ Crust    *
* R   R   A A   V     V  E      is life.  Bitnet:U37460@UICVM          *
* RRRR   AAAAA   V   V   EEEE   is life.  InterNet:                    *
* R  R   A   A    V V    E      is life.  [e-mail]         *
* R   R  A   A     V     EEEEE  is life.  [e-mail]   *
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rice!uw-beaver!pullen
From: [e-mail] (Walter D. Pullen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: The Crop Circle Mysteries Continue
Summary: Contents of an article that appeared in a local newspaper
Keywords: crop circles
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 21 Mar 92 00:26:01 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Washington Computer Science
Lines: 242


     The following article on the crop circle phenomena appeared in
the February 1992 issue of the "New Times", a local spiritual
newspaper. It was written by Ross Dedrickson under the article name
"The crop circle mysteries continue". The content of this article,
which I have reproduced below for your interest and information, is
rather similar to what Questor Lau posted in his "Circles in the
Fields" article earlier. It is divided into three main parts: It
starts out with general information and lists the well established
physical characteristics of crop circles. Then it enters into various
experiences people have claimed to have in realtion to them, which
although much harder to verify, are in ways more informative. Finally,
a possible explanation for who is making the crop circles, why they
are doing them the way they are, and for what purpose, is presented:


     <<<<<<<<  CROP CIRCLES  >>>>>>>>

     The appearance of crop circles attracted my curiosity years ago
when scattered reports became available. Little did I realize that I
would witness the spiritual exchange of ideas by the top researchers
(cerealogists) at the "Cornference" held on Glastonbury, England last
September.
     Through a chain of several meaningful coincidences I had diverted
from our planned visit in England to join the cerealogists' first
cornference on crop circles. A friend who had heard a report of my
visit suggested that I write an article for the "New Times".
     In recent years the crop circles have become so numerous and so
complex (no longer simple circles but intricate figures) that the term
"pictogram" was adopted as their label. This amazing phenomenon has
occurred in at least 26 countries worldwide.
     Depending on how they are counted, in 1990 England had 1200
pictograms and Australia had about 400 of them. Here in the USA and
Canada pictograms occurred in scattered locations across both
countries.
     Cerealogists have noted that an intelligence is unquestionably
behind the creation of the pictograms. Although one journalist and one
scientist, as a small minority, are sticking to their theory that
whirlwinds or plasma vortices are the natural cause of their
formation, too many incidents where the specific timing, location, and
configuration have responded to individual, group thoughts, and public
beliefs have occurred to ignore this interactive response.
     The anecdotal accounts demonstrate this intelligent response. As
Pat Delgado, engineer cerealogist, said at the cornference, "The
pictogram artists are two or three jumps ahead of us." The artists
seems to have anticipated the watchers' thoughts, moves, and attempts
to see or record a pictogram in-the-making or to see the artists at
work.
     The ranks of the cerealogists include individual scientists,
engineers, philosophers, archeologists, and historians as the more
disciplined researchers. The pictogram phenomenon has also attracted
poets, psychics, astrolgers, skeptics, hoaxers, and the media
searching for sensational stories. The explanations from these latter
folks cover a wide spectrum of ideas. These include the whirlwinds,
crop fertilization, lightning flash "whistlers," Fairies, rutting
deer, ground hogs, secret military experiments, and UFO actions.
     Needless to say the various governments are at a loss to explain
the source and method of creation. Establishment science has
practically ignored the study of the pictogram. Any coordinated
research seems to be totally lacking at this time.
     The more recent pictogram configurations are similar to and in
some cases duplicates of ancient symbols of very early cultures.
Ancient Hebrew, Greek, Egyptian, Sumerian, Phoenician, Mayan, Caelic,
and Asiatic symbols have comparative configurations. Some of the
characteristics of the crop pictograms that are common to all
pictograms or are occasionally encountered within pictograms are
discussed below.

     <<<<<<<<  PHYSICAL TYPE CHARACTERISTICS  >>>>>>>>

     1. The pictograms have not only appeared in the cereal crops such
as wheat, barley, oats, and corn, but have been observed in tobacco,
mustard, sugar beets, soy beans, etc., and even in sand, dirt, and
snow.
     2. Mature wheat stems inside the pictograms are bent as much as
90 degrees at ground level. Stems outside will break if bent beyond
five degrees at the ground level where bending takes place. The cells
within the outside part of the bend are swollen as though they had
been heated by microwave radiation.
     3. Sometimes a loud roaring, trilling, chirping, or screeching
noise has been experienced by observers before, during, or after the
discovery of pictograms in nearby locations. Other times these noises
have been heard by investigators while within the pictograms.
     4. Dark silent shapes which mask the stars, and blinking lights
that are not from aircraft have been observed before, during, and
after some pictogram discoveries.
     5. At least four video tapes have recorded the motion of
silver-colored objects floating above the crops. In all cases the
objects suddenly disappeared.
     6. Television camcorders, radio receivers, and tape recorders
have failed to function when taken into a pictogram. (An $80,000 BBC
high-tech camcorder was damaged in a pictogram and required extensive
repairs.)
     7. In some cases a 5.2 KH signal has been recorded by radio-type
receivers taken within the pictograms, but the reception sharply
disappears as the receiver is moved outside the pictogram.
     8. Another type of electromagnetic energy has been recorded. One
investigator, David Tilt, used a Sony TCM-3 cassette recorder fitted
with a 2.5 MH RF choke. The recorder revealed a difference in the
signal pulse at ground level, one meter above ground level and two
meters above. The highest level has a faster signal pulse than the
lower levels.
     9. The affected crop is laid down in a precisely defined area.
Groups of stems are compressed together to form indentifiable ribs or
whirls. Often the crop stems lay in distinct layers. As many as three
layers have occurred, with each layer pointing in a different
direction. Both clockwise and counterclockwise whirls occur.
     10. Some pictograms have "grown" or developed additions to their
configuration several days after their initial formation and
discovery, such as added side boxes or additional circles.
     11. The crystals produced from corn stalks within the pictograms
by the Spagyrik process (HSC Limited Laboratory, Stroud, U.K.) have a
crystalline structure markedly different than crystals from plants
outside of the pictograms.
     12. The pictogram soil has been tested in some places for minute
amounts of alpha radiation. Traces were present but the results were
so erratic that no positive conclusions could be reached.

     <<<<<<<<  ANOMALOUS CHARACTERISTICS  >>>>>>>>

     1. A strong energy field within the pictograms is readily
detected by dowser, but no energy exists beyond the edges of the
pictogram.
     2. The pictograms seem to be dominantly associated with Earth
energy lines or rays ("ley lines"), or occur over underground veins of
water. They sometimes seem to have a correlation with ancient sites
such as Stonehenge, Silbury Hill, or barrows (burial mounds of early
cultures).
     3. The latest pictograms have included extremely complex
configurations involving mathematical relationships between the parts
in factors of dimensions and area of triangles, circles, and celestial
symbols. One pictogram was a "Mandelbrot Set" associated with fractal
mathematics and Chaos Physics.
     4. The creators of many of the English pictograms have left their
"signatures" beside their "artwork." At least three different
signatures have been identified. Each artist has his own territory.
For example, the Hampshire artist uses a double eyebrow, the Wilshire
a double dot, and the Avebury a comma-like double swirl.
     5. The energies present in the pictograms can be very powerful.
Some persons become nauseated, develop headaches, and become
disoriented, while others may experience great elation. The symptoms
disappear after an hour or so after the affected person leaves the
pictogram. Animals tend to avoid staying in them.

     <<<<<<<<  ANECDOTAL ASPECTS  >>>>>>>>

     Anecdotal experiences are convincing that a reactive intelligence
is present. The following few examples (out of many) demonstrate the
existence of a leading/responsive intelligence.
     1. Mr. Wingfield escorted a group of 12 people into a pictogram,
and they heard a loud trilling sound. One woman, a sensitive,
exclaimed "If you can hear us, stop." The trilling noise stopped and
then resumed.
     2. Another person, a witness who was observing the above group of
12 persons from a distance, observed a UFO above them; the persons in
the group saw nothing unusual.
     3. After wide publicity about Dr. Meaden's claim that whirlwinds
were creating the crop circles, subsequent pictograms were complex
key-shaped figures with triangles, rectangles, and other glyphic
configurations.
     4. While inside a pictogram, Mr. Andrews was informed by a
companion, an intuitive, that he was to pick up a rock. He picked up
what he thought was a randomly-selected rock, to be lated advised that
he had been programmed to pick up that specific rock. The rock has on
its underside a perfect replica of Stonehenge.
     5. Mr. Bond, a well-known sensitive, walked into a wheat field.
He felt heavy, hot, dizzy, paralyzed, and aware of a hum in his head
and teeth. He began to panic and yelled "Oh God, help me!" Seconds
later he heard a low voice in his head. It said "Be at peace. We mean
you no harm. You are safe. You are standing in the middle of our
craft. We are not of your dimension." The various bodily sensations
faded and then as he looked around he found himself directly in the
center of a circle where the wheat had been crushed in a
counterclockwise pattern.
     6. Mr. Jones experienced a trilling noise in his house. He was
transported to a field where he saw a whirl of lights, then was just
as quickly transported back to his bed.
     7. While looking into a field at night, Mr. Haddington saw
several hundred black rods seemingly dancing among the corn stalks.
     8. A variety of eyewitnesses have described red, glowing orbs,
blue flashes of light, large translucent orange spheres, and silvery
disks or globes moving in and over the crop fields.
     9. An isolated case of healing occurred when a woman with an
injured shoulder (tennis player) found her injury healed after sitting
in a pictogram while taking research notes. Her companion, who
suffered from a chronic illness in which her stomach acids ulcerated
her throat and who thus could not sleep reclining, found that she had
also been cured.

     <<<<<<<<  POSSIBLE EXPLANATION  >>>>>>>>

     On the eve of my departure to England, I was consulting an
intuitive on other matters when I had an impulse to ask about the
origin of the crop circles. The following explanation is word-for-word
as transcribed from the audio tape into my computer. As I listened to
the proceeding of the cornference it seemed to offer clues to many of
the issues raised. I and other believe it offers some insight as to
the source of the formation of crop pictograms.

     <<<<<<<<  CROP "CIRCLES"  >>>>>>>>

     "Extra-terrestrials or interdimensional entities from other than
your physical plane are creating the crop circles and agri-glyphs.
There is a growing momentum by the inter-dimensional community to be
recognized by your Earth community. So these phenomena have come about
gradually, a little at a time, to draw the attention of the public and
their governments of the different countries."
     "The purpose of these activities is to obtain recognition of the
existence of these entities. The entities have great intelligence;
they do not wish to shock the people by sudden physical appearances,
but wish to become gradually known, and to present information and
evidence to the people and governments of the countries so that the
governments must publicly study and reveal the evidence and to welcome
the entities. The entities use this method of communication to your
world so that humans will not view them as fearful monsters."
     "There will be more and more of these phenomena until the
governments have to break their vow of silence and reveal the nature
of these entities, and to make public the information about the
entities. This government recognition will not occur for a number of
months or a few years until the government can no longer remain silent
or deny the existence of the entities."
     "The entities use ancient symbols to communicate an awareness of
Earth's culture. They wish to cause curiosity in the people of the
communities and to draw widespread attention. They do not use totally
foreign symbols but use simple one for your Earth's intelligence,
because their intelligence is far advanced over Earth's."
     "The simple symbols of Earth's early cultures have been used to
promote speculation and discussion among your people. There will be
more of these phenomena throughout parts of your Earth."
     (Received 25 August, 1991, from a panel of six entities in
another dimension on the eve of a trip to England to learn more about
the so-called crop "circles".)

--

-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
|     Walter D. "Cruiser1" Pullen     |     [e-mail]     |
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
|   "Who am I, What am I?  As I am, I am not.  But as we are, I AM.  And to   |
-   you my creation, My Perfect Love is your Perfect Freedom. And I will be   -
|   with you forever and ever, until the End, and then forever more." - GOD   |
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
Path: ns-mx!uunet!world!kibo
From: [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.fan.warlord
Subject: Re: exploding heads?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 21 Mar 92 06:28:12 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: A room filled with typography (in Boston's Back Bay)
Lines: 26
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5023 alt.fan.warlord:2930

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
>(christopher williams) says:
>>can people's heads REALLY explode? i heard this on the news yesterday.
>>
>On some occasions, yes.  See, you put a pop a cherry bomb in their mouth
>light it, and wait, oh, say 10 seconds and then BOOM, their head explodes.
>Hope this helps.

We do that in alt.exploding.kibo all too infrequently.

>* RRRR     A    V     V  EEEEE  is life.  Ethan Haslett    DJ Crust    *
>* R   R   A A   V     V  E      is life.  Bitnet:U37460@UICVM          *
>* RRRR   AAAAA   V   V   EEEE   is life.  InterNet:                    *
>* R  R   A   A    V V    E      is life.  [e-mail]         *
>* R   R  A   A     V     EEEEE  is life.  [e-mail]   *

What is life?  I'm not clear on this.  Maybe you'd better draw me a
diagram.  It's so small and non-repetetive...  ^,^

                            -- K.

--
..................    ...................................................
James "Kibo" Parry    271 Dartmouth St #3D, Boston MA 02116 [phone]
[e-mail]    Independent graphic designer and typeface designer.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!news.utdallas.edu!convex!egsner!sdf!hideo
From: [e-mail] (David Carter)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: SLAC
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 21 Mar 92 00:28:20 GMT
Distribution: alt.ale[Dien.visitors
Organization: sdf Public Access UNIX, Dallas--unrestricted free shell access
Lines: 13


Wow! This may be off the subject but how many e-volts ya got bouncing

around in there? Many I bet! That's a great gig! I like the acronym

too. You should post on alt.slack. OK back to the saucer jockeys!



David Carter           : URANUS: not truly a place
aka Hideo Gump         : where the Sun don't shine,
Dallas, Texas USA      : but certainly a place where
[e-mail] : the Sun shines dimly!
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wupost!news.utdallas.edu!convex!egsner!sdf!hideo
From: [e-mail] (David Carter)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: particle smashing
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 21 Mar 92 00:35:31 GMT
Distribution: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: sdf Public Access UNIX, Dallas--unrestricted free shell access
Lines: 16

Wow, what a gig!

This may be off the subject, but how insanely many electron volts

ya got bouncing around in there? Is smashing atoms hard???

hehe, just jokin'.

I'm impressed, really.



David Carter           : URANUS: not truly a place
aka Hideo Gump         : where the Sun don't shine,
Dallas, Texas USA      : but certainly a place where
[e-mail] : the Sun shines dimly!
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!pacbell.com!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Talmud as Given by Judas Iscariot
Message-ID: <jr_j![e-mail]>
Date: 22 Mar 92 03:57:43 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <![e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 27



From the now-defunct (and aptly-named) UFO and "Fortean" magazine
Caveat Emptor, Fall, 1989, p. 21:

    Eduard Meier, the controversial Swiss contactee who claims
    to be in touch with "beamships" from the Pleiades, also
    claims to possess a translation of an ancient Aramaic
    document called the *Talmud Jmmanuel*. The document resolves
    some questions about the traditional version of the New
    Testament, and also contains some UFO material.

    Jim Deardorff, former senior scientist at the National Center
    for Atmospheric Research in Boulder, Colorado, took early
    retirement to study the Meier material. He has written a
    book called *Cultural Teachings: The Emergency (sic) of the
    True Testament of Immanuel (Jesus)*, which will be available
    later this year from: Blue Water Publishing, P.O. Box 23093,
    Tigard, OR 97224.
--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

               "The facts can only take you so far in this case.",
      - Oliver Stone, discussing "JFK" on CBS-TV's "48 Hours", Feb. 5, 1992
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zephyr.ens.tek.com!psgrain!quagga!cc186.ru.ac.za!g90m1473
From: [e-mail] (MR CR MAIN)
Newsgroups: alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Dreamland
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 21 Mar 92 19:15:36 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Rhodes University NNTP server)
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
Lines: 37
Xref: ns-mx alt.paranormal:4680 alt.alien.visitors:5027 sci.skeptic:22027

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Derek Abbott) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Andrew Leaver) writes:
>>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Marc MILANINI) writes:
>>>
>>><Flame on>
>>>Seems to me that you missed an -another?- opportunity to shut up. First,
>>>I don't think that Newton was really a genius. Hard-working, certainly,
>>>but his intelligence was quite common, I believe.
>>> ...
>>><Flame off>
>>
>>Obviously, whether any particular person was a genius or not is
>>a matter of opinion. However, in the `History of Science' type books
>>and Encyclopaedia entries I have read on Newton (check Encyclopaedia
>>Britannica, and Isaac Asimov's book of biographies) the general
>>consensus is that he was one of the brightest scientists the world has
>>seen, perhaps even *the* most brilliant. He was also, by all accounts, a
>>rather unpleasant guy - but that's beside the point!
>>
>>>--
>>>=---K8>>@@@@@@@@ Marc Milanini @@@@ [e-mail] @@@@%%
>>
>>Andrew ------------------------------------- [e-mail]


>Wasn't it Thomas Alva Edison who said "Genius is 99% perspiration and
>1% inspiration." ???

>Derek :-)

If Thomas Alva Edison said that, he cannot possibly have been anything close
to a genius. True genius requires far less thinking than average to get a
project completed.

In my opinion very few true geniuses have ever existed. Elbert being one of
the very few.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!nevada.edu!jimi!equinox!unssun.nevada.edu!lsmith
From: [e-mail] (Larry Smith)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Face on Mars
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Mar 92 13:34:01 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Larry Smith)
Distribution: alt
Organization: University of Nevada, Reno
Lines: 17


     I've never seen the face on Mars, but I was reading the Weekly
World News a few weeks ago and saw that a B-17g of the 8th Air Force
had been spotted crash landed on Mars. The story went on to say that
the crew had survived the crash, and the pilot, a Captain E. Presley
had been using the bomber's radio to transmit messages back to earth.

    Among the messages recieved were...

    "Mars needs women" and
        "You ain't nothin' but a hounddog"


 Just the facts ma'm.....
                         LAPD Sgt. Joe Friday
 Facts? I don't need no stinkin' facts!
                                     Rush Limbaugh
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!covpoly!cch.coventry.ac.uk!cbj005
From: [e-mail] (The Mistress)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.flame
Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 21 Mar 92 14:10:46 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News Owner)
Organization: Manipulators Inc.
Lines: 54
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5029 alt.flame:36258
Nntp-Posting-Host: cc_sysh

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Neal Johnson) writes:
>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>>>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) writes...
>>>>In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>>>>>And then in [e-mail] (Daniel Dise) said...
>>>>>% In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>>>>>% >In article [e-mail] (Michael Wasylik) writes...
>>>>>% >>In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>>>>>% >>>And then in [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) said...
>>>>>% >>>% In article <[e-mail]> writes...
>>>>>% >>>% >In article [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) says:
>>>>>% >>>% >>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>% >>>% >>>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
>>>>>% >>>% >>>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
>>>>>% >>>% >>>>> In article [e-mail] (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>>>>>% >>>% >>>>> >In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>% >>>% >>>>>
>>>>>% >>>% >>>>> >>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
>>>>>% >>>% >>>>>
>>>>>% >>>% >>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it!
>>>>>% >>>% >>>>>
>>>>>% >>>% >>>>> >Evolution is god!
>>>>>% >>>% >>>>> Sanitation is fraud:
>>>>>% >>>% >>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
>>>>>% >>>% >>>Santa Claus baits God.
>>>>>% >>>% >>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
>>>>>% >>>% >>Satin draws mates bod.
>>>>>% >>>% >I sat in Ward's tame knob.
>>>>>% >>>% I set a weird time bomb.
>>>>>% >>>I shed a weird tie, Bob...
>>>>>% >>I shot a wet teen babe.
>>>>>% >Izod's a wasp trend, Biff.
>>>>>% I drove off a west end cliff
>>>>>I rode to arrest a lift.
>>>>Electrodes tie my wrists.
>>>Erode the Mai Tai wisps.
>>He rode the May Day WASPS.
>She ate the Payday wrapper.
>
>
>GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH.  I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT.
>YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*.


Your wish is my command!!!!!!

*:-)

--
|The /\/\istress of /\/\anipulation, [e-mail], |
|"Whats civil about engineering", Coventry Poly 27/10/91   |
|"...So Paul, being the stable rational soul that he is,   |
| decided to kill him.."   Shadowrun                       |
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!news
From: [e-mail] (Donald Yett)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Abductions and Visitations
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Mar 92 09:02:27 GMT
References: <=[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Donald Yett)
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Lines: 30
NNTP-Posting-Host: phad.hsc.usc.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Tarl Neustaedter) writes:
>
>I keep hearing this canard as a justification that we can't possibly know
>anything, so we must assume everything is possible. There may have been

Obviously you are not a scientist!  A true scientist must believe that anything is
possible,  and then attempt to prove himself right or wrong.

[now exiting reality]

Going by your arguments:
I conclude that you do not exist,  by proof [using your reasoning] All I see here is
an argument that could have been generated by a computer for all I know,  I have never
seen you, therefore you must not exist!

[back to reality here]

I choose to take the assumption that you do exist.  I also believe that anything is
possible until it can be proven otherwise.  And even then, the proof against must be
occasionally re-examined.  You have been sitting behind a desk pushing a pencil, and
questioning your abilities for too long.  You have forgotten the reason why science
exists.

We are the new generation, we exist to prove you wrong!  :)

--
+-------------------------+----------------------------------------------------
| [e-mail]  | I will not be pushed, stamped, filed, indexed,
|   Just my opinions!     | briefed, debriefed, or numbered! - #6, The Prisoner
+-------------------------+----------------------------------------------------
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!dcl-cs!jps
From: [e-mail] (Mr J P Smalley)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Distance
Keywords: Too far?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Mar 92 12:44:19 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Department of Computing at Lancaster University, UK.
Lines: 16

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Robert Dinse) writes:
>
>    I believe that the distances from other star systems is not too great to
>be bridged, and that it is likely that aliens have visited us and perhaps are
>even doing so in a regular basis.
>
>    We know too little about the universe, how it works, to exclude that
>possibility.  We can't yet unite the forces of nature.  Try as we might, we
>don't REALLY understand gravity, space, time, or what a vacuum really is.

I agree, it's very premature to dismiss any kind of potential space travel.
Someone once said that "We don't know one millionth of one percent about
anything" and I always keep this is mind.  (Anyone know to whom the quote
is attributed?).

Julian
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!rutgers!ub!dsinc!pitt.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!seawasp
From: [e-mail] (Ryk E Spoor)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Zontar?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Mar 92 18:05:56 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Lines: 23

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Sean Donnelly) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>> I hear strange stories that there is a psychic in Europe you claims to able to
>> communicate spiritually with an alien being named Zontar?  I've read vague repo
>Yes, this person does exist, as I've seen an article on him in the London Times
>Sunday supplement. Apparently he goes into a trance and channels the alien, Zontar
>Any other info on Zontar out there?


    Zontars are creatures that Calvin (of Calvin and Hobbes fame) as
Spaceman Spiff knows are used for torture by evil Zorg despots ("Ha!
Wild Zontars couldn't drag that information out of me! Do your worst!")

    They are also closely related to the Hermaphroditic enemy of
Ninja Force Gatchaman, Zoltar (in USA, NFG is Battle of the Planets...ick).

    So we can see that Zontar is a Toon.

    Channeling? Please, stop smoking pages from the National Inquirer.

                Sea Wasp
                  /^\
                  ;;;
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!aa440
From: [e-mail] (Dale Wedge)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Face on Mars
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Mar 92 20:27:54 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Dale Wedge)
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, OH (USA)
Lines: 44
Nntp-Posting-Host: cwns5.ins.cwru.edu


In a previous article, [e-mail] (Larry Smith) says:

>
>     I've never seen the face on Mars, but I was reading the Weekly
>World News a few weeks ago and saw that a B-17g of the 8th Air Force
>had been spotted crash landed on Mars. The story went on to say that
>the crew had survived the crash, and the pilot, a Captain E. Presley
>had been using the bomber's radio to transmit messages back to earth.
>
>    Among the messages recieved were...
>
>    "Mars needs women" and
>        "You ain't nothin' but a hounddog"
>
>
> Just the facts ma'm.....
>                         LAPD Sgt. Joe Friday
> Facts? I don't need no stinkin' facts!
>                                     Rush Limbaugh
>

Wrongo big guy!  In the mid 50's Martians landed on earth and then took
control of the U.S. Congress (Democrats).  On Mars, martians only write
checks on a substance that can only be described here on Earth as rubber.

The face that you see on Mars is that of their God, Tom Foley.  You really
can't make it out that good because the ears are covered.  As you know,
when Foley says anything wrong, his ears get bigger.

Martians like massive deficeits, no holds barred checkwriting, special
perks at the post office (or snort office), and releasing information
contrary to the law.

The Venusians, who are obscured by a dense atmosphere are actually Repub-
licans.  As with republicans, they don't like you to peer into anything
that they do.  If you were to see through the clouds of Venus, you would
find a fat cat and a money symbol.

When you add up Venus and Mars you can only come to one conclusion, we
will be eventually run by the baddest race in the solar system, those
baddies of Uranus.  When you deal with them, you know where your gonna
get it in the end.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!news.funet.fi!network.jyu.fi!tola
From: [e-mail] (Teemu Olavi Lahteenmaki)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: pts
Keywords: Get a life !
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Mar 92 20:29:10 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Intergalactical University of Jyvaskyla, Finland
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In article <[e-mail]> Craig.O'[e-mail] (Craig O'Neill) writes:
>This is probley the wrong area but I couldn't find the right one as I am only
>new to the board. Can you tell me how I gt points for downloads and what is
>the upload/download ratio on this board. Thanks.

Get a life, this is Internet !
If you manage to find something to download from here, tell me !
--

-< Would you believe there's no signature here ? >-
Path: ns-mx!uunet!polari!rwing!eskimo!delisle
From: [e-mail] (Ben Delisle)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Antahkarana: A Channeled Message From The Ashtar Command
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Mar 92 05:17:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Core Dump Appreciation Society.
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   And I thought I was already in the .celestial domain. heh heh.

 +-(c)--------------------------+ Information is the root of knowledge.
 | [e-mail] |   Action is the root of experience.
 +------------------------------+    Illusion is the root of reality.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!polari!rwing!eskimo!delisle
From: [e-mail] (Ben Delisle)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: terraforming
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Mar 92 05:37:15 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Core Dump Apperication Society.
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   One possible way that although uses a lot of energy, Its costs are
not as high as others: push astroides in to a orbital vecter that will
take it in a collision path to the target world. the resultant
collision may free gasses into the asmosphere and add mass.

   A problem with Mars; for example, is the lack of a strong
magnetic field, which has been theorized to contribute to is shalow
atmosphere -- the solar winds from the Sun are not deflected by the
planet's weak magnetic field, the "wind" then, as it blows by and takes
with it a little bit of atmosphere.

    So much for that theory, I must be dreaming anyway.
 +-(c)--------------------------+ Information is the root of knowledge.
 | [e-mail] |   Action is the root of experience.
 +------------------------------+    Illusion is the root of reality.
Dump the Demobrats and Republicants, vote Libertarian.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!fuug!mits!karttu
From: [e-mail] (Antti Karttunen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.drugs,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic
Subject: PROGRAMMING AND METAPROGRAMMING IN THE HUMAN BIOCOMPUTER
Keywords: Alien Minds, Isolation Experiments, LSD-25, John Lilly, Inner Space
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Mar 92 19:42:06 GMT
Organization: Arvaapa se!
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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5037 alt.drugs:23873 alt.paranormal:4683 sci.skeptic:22042



           Author's Note & Second Chapter from the book:

      PROGRAMMING AND METAPROGRAMMING IN THE HUMAN BIOCOMPUTER

             written in 1967, 1968 by John Lilly, M.D.

    Published by The Julian Press, Inc., a member of the
    Crown Publishing Group, distributed by Crown Publishers, Inc.,
    225 Park Avenue South, New York, New York 10003 and represented
    in Canada by the Canadian MANDA Group.

    Library of Congress Catalog Number 72-189950
    ISBN 0-517-52757-X
    1987 Edition

    John C. Lilly, M.D., has studied and conducted research
    in the fields of biophysics, neurophysiology, electronics,
    and neuroanatomy. Best known for his groundbreaking work
    in human-dolphin relations, Dr. Lilly is the United States's
    leading authority on the states of solitude, isolation, and
    confinement and their psychological effects on the human mind.



    Author's Note

      This work has a curious history. It was written as a final
    summary report to a government agency (National Institute of
    Mental Health) concerning five years of my life work. (The
    agency paid my salary for the five years.)

      It was conceived from a space rarer these days than it was
    then: the laws suspending scientific interest, research,
    involvement and decisions about d-lysergic acid di-ethyl
    amide tartrate were passed just as this particular work was
    completed; the researchers were inadequately consulted
    (put down, in fact). The legislators composed laws in an
    atmosphere of desperation. The national negative program
    on LSD was launched; LSD was the big scare, on a par with
    War, Pestilence, and Famine as the destroyer of young brains,
    minds and fetuses.

      In this atmosphere (1966-1967) Programming and Metaprogramming
    in The Human Biocomputer was written. The work and its notes are
    dated from 1964 to 1966. The conception was formed in 1949, when
    I was first exposed to computer design ideas by Britton Chance.
    I coupled these ideas back to my own software through the
    atmosphere of my neurophysiological research on cerebral cortex.
    It was more fully elaborated in the tank isolation solitude
    and confinement work at NIMH from 1953 to 1958, run in parallel
    with the neurophysiological research on the rewarding and
    punishing systems in the brain. The dolphin research was
    similarly born in the tank, with brain electrode results as
    parents in the further conceptions.

      While I was writing this work, I was a bit too fearful to
    express candidly in writing the direct experience, uninterpreted.
    I felt that a group of thirty persons' salaries, a large
    research budget, a whole Institute's life depended on me and
    what I wrote. If I wrote the data up straight, I would have
    rocked the boats of several lives (colleagues and family)
    beyond my own stabilizer effectiveness threshold, I hypothesized.

      Despite my precautionary attitude, the circulation in 1967
    of this work contributed to the withdrawal of research funds
    in 1968 from the research program on dolphins by one government
    agency. I heard several negative stories regarding my brain
    and mind, altered by LSD. At this point I closed the Institute
    and went to the Maryland Psychiatric Research Center to resume
    LSD research under government auspices. I introduced the ideas
    in work to the MPRC researchers and I left for the Esalen
    Institute in 1969.

      At Esalen my involvement in direct human gut-to-gut
    communication and lack of involvement in administrative
    responsibility brought my courage to the sticking place.
    Meanwhile, Stewart Brand of the Whole Earth Truck Catalog
    (Menlo Park, Calif.) reviewed the work in the Whole Earth
    Catalog from a mimeographed copy I had given W.W. Harmon
    of Stanford for his Sufic purposes. Stewart wrote me asking
    for copies to sell. I had 300 printed photo-offset from
    the typed copy. He sold them in a few weeks and asked
    permission to reprint on newsprint an enlarged version
    at a lower price. Sceptical about salability, I agreed.
    Book People, Berkeley, arranged the reprinting. Several
    thousand copies were sold.

      I had written the report in such a way that its basic
    messages were hidden behind a heavy long introduction
    designed to stop the usual reader. Apparently once word
    got out, this device no longer stalled the interested
    readers. Somehow the basic messages were important enough
    to enough readers so that the work acquired an unexpected
    viability. Thus it seems appropriate to reprint it in full.

      On several different occassions, I have been asked to rewrite
    this work. One such start at rewrite ended up as another book.
    (The Center of the Cyclone, The Julian Press, Inc., New York,
    1972.) Another start is evolving into my book number five
    (Simulations of God: A Science of Belief). It seems as if this
    older work is a seminating source for other works and solidly
    resists revision. To me it is a thing separate from me, a
    record from a past space, a doorway into new spaces through
    which I passed and cannot return.

                                                     J.C.L.

                                              February 1972
                                    Los Angeles, California


     'All human beings, all persons who reach adulthood in the
    world today are programmed biocomputers. No one of us can
    escape our own nature as programmable entities. Literally,
    each of us may be our programs, nothing more, nothing less.'

    Chapter 2.

    SUMMARY OF EXPERIMENTS IN SELF-METAPROGRAMMING WITH LSD-25

      In order to test the validity of some of the basic assumptions
    implicit in the theory of the human computer, a series of
    experiments were designed and carried out in the LSD-25 state,
    in physical isolation, and solitude. One point of primary
    interest during these experiments was to find out what level
    of intensity of belief in a set of assumptions could be achieved.
    The assumptions tested in this set of experiments are not those
    of current science: they are not in the conscious working
    repertory of this scientist; nor were they consciously acceptable
    to him.
      In this short account it is not intended to give all of the
    details of either the self-metaprogramming language that was used
    or the details of the elicited phenomena. The account is
    purposely sparse, condensed, and compressed. Abstracted from
    the complexity of the totality of the experiments and their
    results are only those formal descriptions which may serve as
    guide posts to others attempting to reproduce these or similar
    experiments. It is not intended to complicate this account with
    the personal aspects of the metaprogramming, the elicited
    phenomena, or difficulties encountered. For those researchers
    who are interested in this work's reproduction in themselves,
    these assumptions (or similar ones) and these results can be
    translated into their own metaprogramming language and such
    workers can obtain their unique results.
      To claim validity of details beyond myself is not my aim.
    There probably are those men who are prepared well enough to
    attempt reproducing what has been done here in themselves.
    The descriptions are given so that the sources of the human
    computer theory are available to professionals.
      This particular set of existence theorems is selected for
    experiment for a number of reasons. There are a number of
    persons (Blum, 1964) who experimented with the LSD-25 state
    who write as if they believe implicitly in the objective
    reality of causes outside themselves for certain kinds of
    experiences undergone with these particular beliefs.
      I do not think it wise to espouse either the existence or
    the non-existence theorem for this set of basic
    supra-self-metaprograms (Fig. 1). To become impartial,
    dispassionate, and general purpose, objective, and open-ended,
    one must test and adjust the level of credence in each of his
    sets of beliefs. If ever Man is to be faced with real organisms
    with greater wisdom, greater intellect, greater minds than any
    single man has, then we must be open, unbiased, sensitive,
    general purpose, and dispassionate. Our needs for phantasies
    must have been analyzed and seen for what they are and are not
    or we will be in even graver troubles than we are today.
      Our search for mentally healthy paths to human progress in
    the innermost realities depends upon progress in this area.
    Many men have floundered in this area of belief: I hope this
    work can help to find a way through one of our stickiest
    intellectual-emotional regions.
      Most of these beliefs are ones which have been abandoned in
    the fields of endeavor called science. Such beliefs continue
    to be found in the field known as religion. Some of these beliefs
    are labeled in modern psychiatric medicine and anthropology as
    superstitions, psychotic beliefs, etc. Other persons present
    these beliefs in the writings called science fiction.
      This set of basic postulates (or beliefs) is conceived and
    used to program several sessions with LSD-25 plus physical
    isolation in solitude. Above all these metaprograms to be
    experimented upon is one metaprogram of value to this subject:
    his overall policy is the intent to explore, to observe, to
    analyze. Hence there is an important additional basic
    metaprogram: analyze self to understand one's thinking and
    true motives more thoroughly. This is the conscious motivational
    strategy. At times this metaprogram dominates the scene, at
    times others do. The resolve exists, however, to generate
    a net effect with this instruction uppermost in the computer
    hierarchy.


    EXPERIMENTS ON BASIC METAPROGRAMS OF EXISTENCE

      Preliminary to the experiments in changing basic beliefs, many
    experiments with the profound physical isolation and solitude
    situation were carried out over a period of several years. These
    experiences were followed by combining the LSD-25 state and the
    physical isolation state in a second period of several years.
    The minimum time between experiments was thirty days, the
    maximum time several months. [Tables 1, 7 and 8]

    Basic Belief No. 1
      Basic Belief No. 1 was made possible by the early isolation
    results: Assume that the subject's body and brain can operate
    comfortably isolated without him paying any attention to it.
    This belief expresses the faith that one has in one's experience
    in the isolation situation, that one can consciously ignore the
    necessities of breathing and other bodily functions, and that
    they will take care of themselves automatically without detailed
    attention on the part of one's self. This result allowed
    existence metaprograms to be made in relative safety.
      Succesful leaving of body and parking it in isolation for
    periods of twenty minutes to two hours were succesful in sixteen
    different experiments. This success, in turn, allowed other
    basic beliefs to be experimented upon. The basic belief that
    one could leave the body and explore new universes was
    succesfully programmed in the first eight different experiments
    lasting from five minutes to forty minutes; the later eight
    experiments were on the cognitional multidimensional space
    without the leaving the body metaprogram (see previous section
    on Projection for the cognition space phenomenon).

    Basic Belief No. 2
      The subject sought beings other than himself, not human, in
    whom he existed and who control him and other human beings.
    Thus the subject found whole new universes containing great
    varieties of beings, some greater than himself, some equal to
    himself, and some lesser than himself.
      Those greater than himself were a set which was so huge in
    space-time as to make the subject feel as a mere mote in their
    sunbeam, a single microflash of energy in their time scale, my
    forty-five years are but an instant in their lifetime, a single
    thought in their vast computer, a mere particle in their
    assemblages of living cognitive units. He felt he was in the
    absolute unconscious of these beings. He experienced many more
    sets all so much greater than himself that they were almost
    inconceivable in their complexity, size and time scales.
      Those beings which were close to the subject in
    complexity-size-time were dichotomized into the evil ones and
    good ones. The evil ones (subject said) were busy with purposes
    so foreign to his own that he had many near-misses and almost
    fatal accidents in encounters with them; they were almost
    totally unaware of his existence and hence almost wiped him
    out, apparently without knowing it. The subject says that the
    good ones thought good thoughts to him, through him, and to one
    another. They were at least conceivably human and humane. He
    interpreted them as alien yet friendly. They were not so alien
    as to be completely removed from human beings in regard to their
    purposes and activities.
      Some of these beings (the subject reported) are programming
    us in the long term. They nurture us. They experiment on us.
    They control the probability of our discovering and exploiting
    new science. He reports that discoveries such as nuclear energy,
    LSD-25, RNA-DNA, etc., are under probability control by these
    beings. Further, humans are tested by some of these beings and
    cared for by others. Some of them have programs which include
    our survival and progress. Others have programs which include
    oppositions to these good programs and include our ultimate
    demise as a species. Thus the subject interpreted the evil ones
    as willing to sacrifice us in their experiments; hence they are
    alien and removed from us. The subject reported with this set
    of beliefs that only limited choices are still available to
    us as a species. We are an ant colony in their laboratory.

    Basic Belief No. 3
      The subject assumed the existence of beings in whom humans
    exist and who directly control humans. This is a tighter control
    program than the previous one and assumes continuous day and
    night, second to second, control, as if each human being were a
    cell in a larger organism. Such beings insist upon activities in
    each human being totally under the control of the organism of
    which each human being is a part. In this state there is no free
    will and no freedom for an individual. This supra-self-metaprogram
    was entered twice by the subject; each time he had to leave
    it; for him it was too anxiety-provoking. In the first case he
    became a part of a vast computer in which he was one element.
    In the second case he was a thought in a much larger mind: being
    modified rapidly, flexibly and plastically.
      All of the above experiments were done looking upward in
    Fig. 1 from the self-programmer to the supra-self-metaprograms.
    A converse set of experiments was done in which the
    self-metaprogrammer looked downward towards the metaprograms,
    the programs and the lower levels of Fig. 1.

    Basic Belief No. 4
      One set of basic beliefs can be subsumed under the directions
    seek those beings whom we control and who exist in us. With this
    program the subject found old models in himself (old programs,
    old metaprograms, implanted by others, implanted by self,
    injected by parents, by teachers, etc.) He found that these were
    disparate and separate autonomous beings in himself. He
    described them as noisy group. His incorporated parents, his
    siblings, his own offspring, his teachers, his wife seemed to be
    a disorganized crowd within him, each running and arguing a
    program with him and in him. While he watched, battles took place
    between these models during the experiment. He settled many
    disparate and nonintegrated points between these beings and
    gradually incorporated more of them into the self-metaprogram.
      After many weeks of self-analysis outside the experimental
    milieu (and some help with his former analyst), it was seen
    that these beings within the self were also those other beings
    outside self of the other experiments. The subject described
    the projected as-if-outside beings to be cognitional carnivores
    attempting to eat up his self-metaprogram and wrest control from
    him. As the various levels of metaprograms became straightened
    out in the subject, he was able to categorize and begin to
    control the various levels as they were presented during these
    experiments. As his apparently unconscious needs for credence in
    these beliefs were attenuated with analytic work, his freedom to
    move from one set of basic beliefs to another was increased and
    the anxiety associated with this kind of movement gradually
    disappeared.
      A basic overall metaprogram was finally generated: For his own
    intellectual satisfaction the subject found that he best assume
    that all of the phenomena that took place existed only in his
    own brain and in his own mind. Other assumptions about the
    existence of these beings had become subjects suitable for
    research rather than subjects for blind (unconscious, conscious)
    belief for this person.

    Basic Belief No. 5
      Experiments also were done upon movements of self forward and
    back in space-time. The results showed that when attempting
    to go forward into the future the subject began to realize his
    own goals for that future, and imagine wishful thinking solutions
    to current problems. When he put in the metaprogram for going
    back into his own childhood, real and phantasy memories were
    evoked and integrated. When he pushed back through to the in
    utero situation, he found an early nightmare which was reinvoked
    and solved. Relying on his scientific knowledge, he pushed the
    program back through previous generations, prehuman primates,
    carnivores, fish and protozoa. He experienced a sperm-egg
    explosion on the way through this past reinvocation of
    imaginary experience.
      The last set of experiments (see Use of Projection section)
    was made possible by the results of the previous set. Progress
    in controlling the projection metaprogram resulted from the other
    universes experiments. Finally the subject understood and had
    become familiar with his need for phantasied other universes.
    Analytic work allowed him to bypass this need and penetrate
    into the cognitional multidimensional projection spaces.
    Experiments in programming in this innermost space showed
    results quite satisfying to a high degree of credence in the
    belief that all experiments in the series showed inner happenings
    without needing the participation of outer causes. The need for
    the constant use of outer causes was found to be a projected
    outward metaprogram to avoid taking personal responsibility
    for portions of the contents of his own mind. His dislike for
    certain kinds of his own nonsensical programs caused him to
    project them and thus avoid admitting they were his.
      In summation, the subjectively apparent results of the
    experiments were to straighten out a good deal of the "nonsense"
    in this subject's computer. Through these experiments he was
    able to examine some warded-off beliefs and defensive structures
    accumulated throughout his life. The net result was a feeling of
    greater integration of self and a feeling of positive affect for
    the current structure of himself, combined with an improved
    skepticism of the validity of subjective judging of events in
    self.
      Some objective testing of these essentially subjective
    judgments have been initiated through cooperation with other
    persons. Such objective testing is very difficult; this area
    needs a great deal of future research work. We need better
    investigative techniques, combining subjective and behavioral
    (verbal) techniques. The major feeling that one has after such
    experiences and experiments is that the fluidity and plasticity
    of one's computer has certain limits to it, and that those limits
    have been enlarged somewhat by the experiments. How long such
    enlargement lasts and to what extent are still not known of
    course. A certain amount of continued critical skepticism about
    and in the self-metaprogram (and it its felt changes) is very
    necessary for a scientist exploring these areas.



    METAPROGRAMMATIC RESULTS OF BELIEF EXPERIMENTS

      The metatheoretical consideration of these experiments and the
    the results are as follows: One supra-metaprogrammatic assumption
    about these experiments is the formalistic view of the origins
    of mathematics and of thinking. As was said in the preface, at
    one extreme of the organization of human thinking is the formal
    logical basic assumption set of metatheories. These experiments
    were done with this view in mind and the results were interpreted
    from this point of view.
      Obviously this point of view does not test the "objective"
    validity of the experiences. It merely assumes that, if one plugs
    the proper beliefs into the metaprogrammatic levels of the
    computer that, the computer will then construct (from the
    myriads of elements in memory) those possible experiences that
    fit this particular set of rules. Those programs will be run
    off and those displays made, which are appropriate to the basic
    assumptions and their stored programming.
      Another way of looking at the results and at the metaprogramming
    is that we start out with a basic set of beliefs, believe them
    to be "objectively" valid (not just "formally" valid) and do the
    experiments and interpret them with this point of view. If one
    proceeds along these lines, one can quickly reach the end of
    one's ability to interpret the results. One finds that one cannot
    grasp conceptually the phenomena that ensue. With this metatheory,
    this type of experience is not just the computer operating in
    isolation, confinement and solitude on preprogrammed material
    being elicited from memory, but is really in communication with
    other beings, and the influence on one's self by them is real.
      Thus in this case one is assuming the existence theorem in
    regard to the basic assumptions, i.e., there is objective
    validity to them quite outside of self and one's making the
    assumptions. This epistemological position can also be
    investigated by these methods. This is somewhat the position
    that was taken by Aldous Huxley and by various other groups.
    For example, pursuit of certain non-Western philosophies as
    the Ultimate Truth was generated by these persons.
      One cannot take sides on these two widely diverse
    epistemological bases. On the one hand we have the basic
    assumptions of the modern scientists and on the other hand
    the basic assumptions of those interested in the religious
    aspect of existence. If one is to remain philosophic and
    objective in this field, one must dispassionately survey
    both of these extreme metatheoretical positions.
      One basic lesson learned from these experiments is that, in
    general, one's preferences for various kinds of metatheoretical
    positions are dictated by considerations other than one's ideals
    of impartiality, objectivity, and a dispassionate view. The
    metatheoretical position held by scientists in general is
    espoused for purposes of defining the truth, for purposes of
    understanding in their particular compartment of science, for
    acceptance among other scientists and for each one's own internal
    security operations with respect to his own unconscious programs.
    It is to be expected that anxiety is engendered in some
    scientists by making the above assumptions as if true (even
    temporarily) in an experimental framework. One can easily be
    panicked by the invasion of the self-metaprograms by automatic
    existence programs from below the level of one's awareness,
    programs which may strike at the existence of self, at the
    control of self, at the origins of self, at the destinations
    of self, and of the relations of self to a known external
    reality.
      Possibly one of the safest positions to take with regard to
    all of these phenomena is that given in this paper, i.e., the
    formalistic view in which one makes the assumption that the
    computer itself generates all of the phenomena experienced.
    This is an acceptable assumption of modern science. This is
    the so-called common sense assumption. This is the assumption
    acceptable to one's colleagues in science.
      Such considerations, of course, do not touch upon nor prove
    the validity of invalidity of the assumptions nor of the results
    of the experiments. In order to leave this theory open-ended
    and to allow for the presence of the unknown, it is necessary
    to take the ontological and epistemological position that one
    cannot know as a result of this kind of solitudinous experiment
    whether or not the phenomena are explicable only by
    non-biocomputer interventions or only by happenings within the
    computer itself, or both.
      I wish to emphasize that there is a necessity not to espouse
    a truth because it is safe. Being driven to a set of assumptions
    because one is afraid of another set and their consequences is
    the most passionate and nonobjective kind of philosophy. Too
    many intellectuals and scientists (almost unconsciously) use
    basic assumptions as defences against their fears of other
    assumptions and their consequences. Until we can train ourselves
    to be dispassionate and accept both the assumptions and the
    results of making them without arrogance, without pride, without
    misplaced enthusiasm, without fear, without panic, whithout
    anger, hence without emotional involvement in the results or
    in the theories, we cannot advance this inner science of Man
    very far.
      Those who wish to embrace the truth of an alternative set of
    assumptions as an escape from the basic assumptions of modern
    science are equally at fault. Those who must find a communication
    with other beings in this kind of experiment will apparently
    find it. One must be aware that there are (as in the child)
    needs within one's self for finding certain kinds of phenomena
    and espousing them as the ultimate truth. Such childlike needs
    needs dictate their own metaprograms.
      I am not agreeing with any extreme group in interpreting
    these results. It is convenient for me to assume, as of this time,
    that these phenomena all occurred within the biocomputer. I
    tend to assume that ESP cannot have played a role. At the
    moment this is the position which I find to be most tenable in a
    logical sense. I do not wish to be dogmatic about this. I wish to
    indicate that this is where I stand as of the writing describing
    this particular stage of the work. I await demonstrations of the
    validity of alternative existence theorems.
      If ever good, hard-nosed, common sense, unequivocal evidence
    for the existence of currently unaccepted assumptions is
    presented by those who have thoroughly attenuated their childish
    needs for particular beliefs, I hope I am prepared to examine it
    dispassionately and thoroughly. The pitfalls of group interlock
    are quite as insidious as the pitfalls of one's own phantasizing.
    Group acceptance of undemonstrated existence theorems and of
    seductive beliefs adds no more validity to the theorems and to
    the beliefs than one's own phantasizing can add. Anaclitic group
    behavior is no better than solitudinous phantasies of the truth.
    Where agreed-upon truth can exist in the science of the
    innermost realities is not and cannot yet be settled. Beginnings
    have been made by many men, satisfying proofs by one.



FIGURE 1.
SCHEMA OF THE LEVELS OF THE FUNCTIONAL ORGANIZATION OF THE HUMAN BIOCOMPUTER


LEVELS

XI    UNKNOWN                                 (above and in Biocomputer)

X     SUPRA-SPECIES-METAPROGRAM               (beyond metaprogramming)

IX    SUPRA-SELF-METAPROGRAMS                 (to be metaprogrammed)

VIII  *SELF-METAPROGRAM* - awareness          (to metaprogram)

VII   METAPROGRAMS    METAPROGRAM STORAGE     (to program set of programs)

VI    PROGRAMS        PROGRAM STORAGE         (detailed instructions)

V     SUBROUTINES     SUBROUTINE STORAGE      (details of instruction)

IV    BIOCHEMICAL ACTIVITY - NEURAL ACT. - GLIAL ACT. - VASCULAR ACT.
                                              (signs of activity)

III   BIOCHEMICAL BRAIN - NEURAL BRAIN - GLIAL BRAIN - VASCULAR BRAIN (brain)

II    BIOCHEMICAL BODY - SENSORY BODY - MOTOR BODY - VASCULAR BODY    (body)

I     BIOCHEMICAL - CHEMICAL - PHYSICAL....EXTERNAL REALITY (external reality)


    Each part of each level has feedback-control relations
    with each part, indicated by the connecting lines. Each
    level has feedback-control with each other level. For
    the sake of schematic simplicity, many of these feedback
    connections are not shown. One example is an important
    connection between Levels VI through IX and X; some
    built-in, survival programs have a representative at the
    Supra-Self-metaprogram Level as follows: "These programs
    are necessary for survival; do not attenuate or excite
    them to extreme values; such extremes lead to non-computed
    actions, penalties, illness, or death." After construction,
    such a Metaprogram is transferred by the Self-metaprogram
    to the Supra-selfmetaprograms and to the Supra-species-
    metaprograms for future control purposes.
    The boundaries between the body and the external reality
    are between Levels I and II; certain energies and
    materials pass this boundary in special places (heat,
    light, sound, food, secretions, feces). Boundaries
    between body and brain are between Levels II and III;
    special structures pass this boundary (blood vessels,
    nerve fibers, cerebro-spinal fluid). Levels IV through XI
    are in the brain circuitry and are the software of the
    Biocomputer. Levels above Level X are labeled "Unknown"
    for the following purposes: (1) to maintain the openness
    of the system, (2) to motivate future scientific research,
    (3) to emphasize the necessity for unknown factors at all
    levels, (4) to point out the heuristic nature of this
    schema, (5) to emphasize unwillingness to subscribe to any
    dogmatic belief without testable reproducible data, and
    (6) to encourage creative courageous imaginative
    investigation of unknwon influences on and in human
    realities, inner and outer.

--
Antti J. Karttunen       Long stretch 36 bits!
[e-mail]     Nakkikaasua!
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!munnari.oz.au!deakin.OZ.AU!cs.uow.edu.au!cc.uow.edu.au!plumpton
From: [e-mail] (David Plumpton)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Mar 92 03:33:41 GMT
References: <=[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (david james plumpton)
Organization: University Of Wollongong
Lines: 24
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5038 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1211

Something I've wondered about that pertains to this thread seems to preclude
the existence of UFOs.  Consider this:

If spacecraft were entering our solar system using any sort of propulsion
system we are likely to understand, they should be easily seen by amateur
astronomers as they shed their delta-v.

On the other hand, E.T.s with technology advanced enough to get in totally
undetected (consider the number of people world-wide searching for new
comets), they would probably have seen so much of the universe as to be
completely uninterested in us.

Either way, it doesn't look good for UFOs.  I can see some flaws in this
argument, but on the whole I find it so compelling that I don't believe
in UFOs, even though I once saw one (i.e. unexplained sighting that didn't
look like it could possibly be anything normal).

Any thoughts on this matter?

--
/------------------------------\ /-------------------------------\
I       David Plumpton          I     There is a holy trinity:    |
I [e-mail] I N Tesla, R Feynman and C Sagan  |
\------------------------------/ \-------------------------------/
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!apple!netcomsv!mork!rcain
From: [e-mail] (Robert Cain)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.drugs,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: PROGRAMMING AND METAPROGRAMMING IN THE HUMAN BIOCOMPUTER
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Mar 92 06:03:18 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5039 alt.drugs:23883 alt.paranormal:4684 sci.skeptic:22047

Thank you antti.  I needed that!  Do you or anyone know what Dr. Lilly
is doing now, where he might be?  His book "Center of the Cyclone" is
must reading for anyone doing inner exploration.  In it he devotes a
chapter or two to the Arica experience and group that he helped form
in the late '60s and early '70s. I was on the peripery of that for a
while and observed their yage experiments in large groups, some of which
I described in earlier posts to alt.drugs.  I was afraid of yage then
and I can't find it now!
--
Bob Cain    [e-mail]   408-358-2007

"There are some strings.  They're just not attached."
                                                    Victoria Roberts
Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!pasteur!amazon.Berkeley.EDU!c60a-dy
From: [e-mail] (Mikel Bancroft CG)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Mar 92 11:08:23 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (NNTP Poster)
Organization: University of California, at Berkeley
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (PIOTR CEZARY  PROSZYNSKI) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Po Shan Cheah) writes:
>
>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Russ Taylor) writes:
>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) writes:
>>>>In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>>>>>In article [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) writes...
>>>>>>In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>>>>>>>In article [e-mail] (Daniel Dise) said...
>>>>>>>%In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>>>>>>>%>In article [e-mail] (Michael Wasylik) writes...
>>>>>>>%>>In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>>>>>>>%>>>In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) said...
>>>>>>>%>>>%In article <[e-mail]> writes...
>>>>>>>%>>>%>In article [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) says:
>>>>>>>%>>>%>>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>In article [e-mail](Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>
>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>
>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>They will just mutate to get around it!
>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>
>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>Evolution is god!
>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>Sanitation is fraud:
>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>Santa Claus baits God.
>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
>>>>>>>%>>>%>>Satin draws mates bod.
>>>>>>>%>>>%>I sat in Ward's tame knob.
>>>>>>>%>>>%I set a weird time bomb.
>>>>>>>%>>>I shed a weird tie, Bob...
>>>>>>>%>>I shot a wet teen babe.
>>>>>>>%>Izod's a wasp trend, Biff.
>>>>>>>%I drove off a west end cliff
>>>>>>>I rode to arrest a lift.
>>>>>>Electrodes tie my wrists.
>>>>>Erode the Mai Tai wisps.
>>>>Erotic in tiny sips.
>>>Exotic Women in slips!
>>Eclectic cows without lips.
>Electric eels at my heels.
Drunken seals slip on peels.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!bradford.ac.uk!K.Haigh-Hutchinson
From: [e-mail] (K.HAIGH-HUTCHINSON)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: God of many worlds
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Mar 92 14:26:50 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Bradford, UK
Lines: 16
Originator: s1497@asic
Nntp-Posting-Host: asic

You say the bible contains the phrase 'God of many worlds'. I am a Christian
but I do not see any reason why life could not exist elsewhere in the
Galaxy/Universe. I like the idea that the Bible expressly says this but I
can not recall coming across it. The only reference I know in the Bible that
explicitly contradicts the 'Earth is flat and the centre of the Universe'
theory is the reference in Job to the ball of the Earth or Sphere of the
Earth (my Bible is at home I'll look it up and post the reference.) Can you
post your reference? and the version you are using? If it is really there
it would be fantastic.

No I do not believe the aliens are visiting us. I can not see any reason
why such vast numbers should come. But they could exist.

Kathy Haigh Hutchinson
University of Bradford
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!bradford.ac.uk!K.Haigh-Hutchinson
From: [e-mail] (K.HAIGH-HUTCHINSON)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Keywords: Childbirth,Job,Witch
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Mar 92 15:01:06 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: K. Haigh-Hutchinson
Organization: University of Bradford, UK
Lines: 20
Originator: s1497@asic
Nntp-Posting-Host: asic

1) it is a fact of life that childbirth is painful.

2) What we see recorded in Genesis is what Lot did, or rather offered to do,
we see no reference to God's approval of such a course of action.

3) Witch does not mean all women. It is not even gender specific. It means a
practioner of withcraft and I always assumed it refered to either sex.

And with many other women affirming passages in the bible please do not fall
into the Male Chauvinist trap of assuming that submission means slavery and
that we are a lesser form of life. It is purely a social order thing, like your
submission to all authority. The Bible does not preach the subjugation,
humiliation and slavery of women. Apparently neither does the Quran. It is
men's interpretation of such passages in relation to their cultural views that
have made it so. Look again and see what the words really say not what men have
told you that they mean.

Kathy Haigh-Hutchinson
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!rutgers!uwvax!zomma.cs.wisc.edu!cherkaue
From: [e-mail] (Kevin J. Cherkauer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Mar 92 18:01:59 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (The News)
Organization: University of Wisconsin, Madison -- Computer Sciences Dept.
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Enrique Morales) writes:
>>Something you all may be neglecting is that the elapsed time of an object
>>travelling near the speed of light is (distance)/(~c) only for the
>>observer in the planetary frame observing the object going past. For
>>an observer in the object (craft), velocity and distance behave in a
>>purely Newtonian fashion, ie. continuing acceleration yields increasing
>>speed with no limitation, so that several lightyears can be traversed
>>in a matter of weeks. The only problem is that after decelerating back
>>to the planetary reference frame, the traveller discovers that some
>>large number of years have elapsed in that frame. Whether that is a
>>problem depends on the traveller's psychological disposition. It's
>>just the same as the twin 'paradox'. If you don't mind missing a few
>>hundred years of history, it's no big deal.

If you are a true relativity fan, then you should not believe the twin paradox
exists. Both the traveller and earthbound humans will have experienced
identical time passage when the alien decelerates to Earth's frame. The
acceleration-deceleration for the trip is entirely symmetric. That is, the
alien's acceleration toward earth can be viewed as acceleration of the earth
toward the alien, and likewise when the alien decelerates upon arrival. This
is, in fact, one of the fundamental tenets of general relativity -- there are
no priviledged reference frames -- the system is symmetric. Thus, you can't
get there in three minutes "local time" by travelling near the speed of light,
according to general relativity. (Of course, relativity may be wrong. Then all
bets are off. I'm not arguing about whether you can go faster than light or
experience the twin paradox -- I'm just pointing out that *relativity theory*
does *not* predict a twin paradox, yet it is relativity theory which people
use in defense of this idea. Fallacious reasoning. Other theories are, of
course, possible.)

The twin paradox emerges when one takes *special* relativity, a theory which
holds for *nonaccelerating* reference frames *ONLY*, and mindlessly applies it
to accelerating reference frames. This makes no sense at all, but people insist
on doing it. Einstein himself fell into this trap and came up with the
so-called "twin paradox," but then he later realized his mistake, calling it
the greatest mistake of his life, I believe. He then tried to convince people
that his theories did *not* predict a twin paradox, but people being the way
they are were already much too enamoured with the science-fictiony way-cool
idea of the twin paradox, so they wouldn't listen.

It is amazing indeed to open up a physics textbook and watch the author blindly
apply special relativity to noninertial frames and, voila, derive the twin
paradox. Such "proofs" are nothing but meaningless algebraic doodlings, akin to
using division by zero to prove that some relation holds.

--
Kevin Cherkauer
[e-mail]

Disclaimer: The above opinions are solely the responsibility of my owners.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!watserv1!watdragon!watyew!jdnicoll
From: [e-mail] (James Davis Nicoll)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Mar 92 18:39:54 GMT
References: <=[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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Organization: University of Waterloo
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Anthony E Bible) writes:
>
>    Pete makes a good point here.  It may not be long in your local time,
>but, then again, better make sure you don't leave anything behind.
>
>    I'd also like to add a little arithmetic to the discussion, and solicit
>criticism of my simple-minded analysis -- *if* solicitation is required.
>(Sorry about the units, but it's been a long time since I did Physics and such,
>and I do not recall the numbers in mks.)
>
>    c = 186,000 miles/sec = 9.82 * 10^8 feet/sec
>    g = 32.2 ft/sec^2
>    t = c / g = 30.5 * 10^6 seconds = 353 days
>
>    It appears to me that it would take about a year (local time) to get up
>to speed (and another year to get down from speed) if you could sustain an
>acceleration of one earth-gravity.  I guess if you get close enough to the
>speed of light the transit time becomes negligible, so it would take about a
>couple years, and that does not seem too bad.  'Course you could reduce the
>time by increasing the g's, but that takes us back to alternate biology for the
>aliens.

    This is misleading, because newtonian calculations diverge from
observations as you approach C. A year will get you to .78 C, where the
dilation is something like 0.63. Shorter, but it still takes 4.6 years to get
to Alpha Centauri and about 6.4 years to cross the average distance between
stars in this neighborhood.

    Even 1 gee constant acceleration takes 3.5 years to get to AC.

>    This leads me to wonder what you can burn that will produce 1-g for two
>years.  Perhaps dilithium crystals ...

    Even a photon drive needs a high mass ratio to get to .78 C.
If you can't forage reaction mass from the interstellar medium, it looks
like typical trip speeds are limited to a few tenths of C.

    Note that if you *do* get up near C, the interstellar medium presents
a significant problem, as you plow through it. From the ship POV, it's
getting fried by a relativistic beam of particles...

                            James Nicoll
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!fnal.fnal.gov!raph
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Xeroxing circles in the fields?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Mar 92 20:00:29 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (The Daily Lose)
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
Lines: 66

There is a possible mechanism for forming crop circles that I have not seen
 or heard discussed.  Suppose we look at the field as if it were a giant

piece of paper in a xerox machine, and the grain stalks are the carbon

grains.  Xerox machines operate by putting down a static charge, with

projected light and shadows causing a gradient between charged and uncharged

regions of the paper.  Carbon powder is attracted to the highly charged

shadowed portions of the paper, causing the light pattern from the original

to be transferred to the copy paper.

If a sufficient electrostatic charge were passed over the field wiht a long,

narrow electrode, circles and squares could be produced in the grain.

Perhaps a diffuse, low-gradient charge could be put into the whole field

(this might be unnecessary); then a high-gradient charge swept across the

field, which would cause the the grain stems to be charged for a few

milliseconds (before the charge could dissipate entirely to the air or down

the stem).  The static charge on the grain stems would pull the plants toward

the oppositely-charged earth underneath, gently bending them.  (Imagine, if

you will, charging a balloon with a burst of ionizing radiation or by

touching it to a statically charged rod, and then sticking it to a wall; or

consider how your hair stands on end when sitting on a Tesla coil, and then

*reversing* the process, to cause the hair to flatten out on the scalp, but

in patterns.)

This would, of course, require a *large* amount of very high voltage, which

might, according to a SWAG, be possible with some of the proposed high-end

Star-Wars-type hardware.

Thus, some prankster from _wherever_ would use some hapless farmer's field as

a sort of giant xerox machine to demonstrate, bother and bewilder the

onlookers the next day.

It is very possible the high voltages employed in this way would cause some

slight physical change in the soil or grain.  Perhaps nearby fences or nails

and such on the field's surface would become charged magnetically due to the

current flow.  Anyone look for this?

Am I the first to propose this mechanism for producing crop circles?  I must

confess that I have not read all of the literature available.

                Cordially, Jim Hawtree <Internet [e-mail]>
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!bronze![e-mail]
From: [e-mail] (Jim Sizemore (alias Gunga Jim))
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Zontar?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Mar 92 21:16:18 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Distribution: na
Organization: Indiana University
Lines: 37

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Sean Donnelly) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>>
>> I hear strange stories that there is a psychic in Europe you claims to able to
>> communicate spiritually with an alien being named Zontar?  I've read vague repo
>> rts also that he communicates with him through a sort of space operator?  What
>> is this all about?
>>
>> Bewildered,
>> Nora
>>
>>
>
>Yes, this person does exist, as I've seen an article on him in the London Times
>Sunday supplement. Apparently he goes into a trance and channels the alien, Zontar
>Zontar, according to the psychic, has no plans for planetary conquest. In fact,
>Zontar claims he's been communicating with Earthlings for centuries. He also
>suggests that humans may have descended from his race.
>
>Any other info on Zontar out there?
>
>
>SeanD



You mean, other than it being the name of a B movie ("Zontar: The Thing
From Venus") which was a remake of a b-movie called "It Counquered
The World"?????

I suppose the Head lizard of the reptoids is named "Godzilla"?
--
 #################################################################
#    Gunga Jim        #  If only that damn buzzing      #
#   (alias Jim Sizemore)    #   in my head would stop!      #
# Wanted in 6 states, unwanted    #    _______________          #
#     in the other 44.         # IU doesn't even know I do this  #
Path: ns-mx!uunet!centerline!franl
From: franl@centerline (Fran Litterio)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Mar 92 22:16:28 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: CenterLine Software, Inc.
Lines: 54
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5047 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1216
In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of Mon, 23 Mar 1992 18:01:59 GMT
Nntp-Posting-Host: draco

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Kevin J. Cherkauer) writes:

> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Enrique Morales) writes:
> >>Something you all may be neglecting is that the elapsed time of an object
> >>travelling near the speed of light is (distance)/(~c) only for the
> >>observer in the planetary frame observing the object going past. For
> >>an observer in the object (craft), velocity and distance behave in a
> >>purely Newtonian fashion, ie. continuing acceleration yields increasing
> >>speed with no limitation, so that several lightyears can be traversed
> >>in a matter of weeks. The only problem is that after decelerating back
> >>to the planetary reference frame, the traveller discovers that some
> >>large number of years have elapsed in that frame. Whether that is a
> >>problem depends on the traveller's psychological disposition. It's
> >>just the same as the twin 'paradox'. If you don't mind missing a few
> >>hundred years of history, it's no big deal.
>
> If you are a true relativity fan, then you should not believe the twin paradox
> exists. Both the traveller and earthbound humans will have experienced
> identical time passage when the alien decelerates to Earth's frame. The
> acceleration-deceleration for the trip is entirely symmetric.

Wrong.  The traveller who accelerates feels the acceleration and thus
knows it is she who is doing the accelerating, not the Earth.

> That is, the
> alien's acceleration toward earth can be viewed as acceleration of the earth
> toward the alien

Wrong again.  I've never felt the Earth accelerate as the Space
Shuttle gains velocity just after liftoff.  See above.

> Einstein himself fell into this trap and came up with the
> so-called "twin paradox," but then he later realized his mistake, calling it
> the greatest mistake of his life, I believe.

I think he was referring to the Cosmological Constant not the Twin Paradox.

> It is amazing indeed to open up a physics textbook and watch the author blindly
> apply special relativity to noninertial frames and, voila, derive the twin
> paradox.

I agree, but it is possible to contrive a though experiment that
demonstrates differential aging of twins without resorting to
accelerated frames of reference.  The travelling twin does not turn
around but travels away from the Earth forever.  She passes an inound
friend, who sets his clock equal to hers at the moment/point where
they meet (this is allowed by SR).  The inbound friend then shows his
clock to the twin on Earth (as he passes her without stopping).  At
that moment/point the two clocks (representing the two "ages" of the
twins) show different elapsed times.
--
[e-mail]   || Fran Litterio
uunet!centerline!franl || CenterLine Software R&D
617-498-3255           || 10 Fawcett St, Cambridge, MA, USA 02138-1110
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!tulane!ukma!nsisrv!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Mike Bur)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Mar 92 20:21:57 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet)
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Michael Wasylik) writes...
>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>>>And then in <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) said...
>>>% In article <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]> writes...
>>>% >In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
>>>% >(Tom Hamill) says:
>>>% >>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>% >>>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
>>>% >>>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
>>>% >>>>> In article [e-mail] (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>>>% >>>>> >In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>% >>>>>
>>>% >>>>> >>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
>>>% >>>>>
>>>% >>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it!
>>>% >>>>>
>>>% >>>>> >Evolution is god!
>>>% >>>>> Sanitation is fraud:
>>>% >>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
>>>% >>>Santa Claus baits God.
>>>% >>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
>>>% >>Satin draws mates bod.
>>>% >I sat in Ward's tame knob.
>>>% I set a weird time bomb.
>>>I shed a weird tie, Bob...
>>I shot a wet teen babe.
>Izod's a wasp trend, Biff.
Satin and Santa jumped off a cliff.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!ukma!nsisrv!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Mike Bur)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Mar 92 17:20:52 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet)
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Michael Wasylik) writes...
>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>>>And then in <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) said...
>>>% In article <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]> writes...
>>>% >In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
>>>% >(Tom Hamill) says:
>>>% >>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>% >>>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
>>>% >>>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
>>>% >>>>> In article [e-mail] (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
>>>% >>>>> >In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>% >>>>>
>>>% >>>>> >>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
>>>% >>>>>
>>>% >>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it!
>>>% >>>>>
>>>% >>>>> >Evolution is god!
>>>% >>>>> Sanitation is fraud:
>>>% >>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
>>>% >>>Santa Claus baits God.
>>>% >>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
>>>% >>Satin draws mates bod.
>>>% >I sat in Ward's tame knob.
>>>% I set a weird time bomb.
>>>I shed a weird tie, Bob...
>>I shot a wet teen babe.
>Izod's a wasp trend, Biff.
Satin and Santa jumped off a cliff.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!access.usask.ca!regina!hercules.cs.uregina.ca!bayko
From: [e-mail] (john bayko)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: terraforming
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Mar 92 20:46:20 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In article
    <[e-mail]>
    [e-mail] (Ben Delisle)
writes:
>
>   One possible way that although uses a lot of energy, Its costs are
>not as high as others: push astroides in to a orbital vecter that will
>take it in a collision path to the target world. the resultant
>collision may free gasses into the asmosphere and add mass.
>
    If I remember correctly, about 3 million comets would be required
to provide a reasonable atmosphere to Mars. I don't think asteroid
collisions would free much atmosphere.

>   A problem with Mars; for example, is the lack of a strong
>magnetic field, which has been theorized to contribute to is shalow
>atmosphere -- the solar winds from the Sun are not deflected by the
>planet's weak magnetic field, the "wind" then, as it blows by and takes
>with it a little bit of atmosphere.
>
    If humans had enough energy to terraform Mars, they'd likely have
the energy to either set up a planetary field by wrapping the planet with
main power cables, or satellites to shield the planet with smaller
magnetic fields distributed over a thin area surrounding the planet.
    Perhaps the solar wind could even be harnessed to supplement the
atmosphere instead of eroding it.

John Bayko.
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From: [e-mail] (Walter D. Pullen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: "Do you want to work for our mission?"
Summary: An extraterrestrial visitation story
Keywords: Alpha Centauri
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Mar 92 23:49:00 GMT
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     The following is a (true) short story which took place about 15
years ago in Latin America. I got the excerpt from the book "UFO
Contact from the Pleiades", by Wendelle Stevens, pages 186-193. In it,
a man has an incredible encounter with a UFO, in which, after he
learns of the true mission of the extraterrestrials, is faced with a
difficult decision he must make. I post this not only because it is an
interesting story, but because it is an accurate portrayal of the
anxiety and disbelief that many are familiar with concerning these
matters. Actually, there is another reason why I am posting this,
which is based on the apparent decision our contactee comes to.
Anyway, enjoy the following, which is written as a letter from the
contactee to a friend:


----------------------------------------------------------------------

"Trinidad (Bolivia), the 2nd of January 1976 --
"Dear Friends:

     "During my travels over the world, I have now come to Trinidad.
My place is at the Marmore river in the Llas de Mojos in Bolivia. I am
here three days now, and have already realized many very interesting
things. I have typed many pages of my impressions and experiences.
But, yesterday, early in the morning, I had an experience which nearly
made me "jump out of my boots". I first considered it a hallucination
or a tropical frenzy, before I could convince myself of being well.
Perhaps you will feel the same when you read these lines. But you know
well that I am no dreamer, and thus you simply have to believe me,
though this will surely be difficult for you. It is all so crazy that
even today I search for mistakes in my brains and even consider the
possibility of dreaming. But, nevertheless all happened exactly as I
write this to you, still clear in my impressions of yesterday's
events, which simply was unbelievable even for me. I cannot express it
otherwise. Do not consider me crazy or ill, for I am neither the one
nor the other. I am as normal as you, and as well not addicted to
fantasies, as you well know. But now let me tell you my experience of
yesterday."
     "It was just 5 o'clock in the morning when I rolled out of my bed
and began to prepare for going this day to the far environs of
Trinidad. About 10 minutes after getting up, I observed something in
the morning sky which I simply could not believe. I had already read
and heard about flying saucers, but never gave them much thought or
consideration, and never believed them to be real. I always thought
such assertions were jokes. But now, very calmly and without noise,
such a flying object passed over Trinidad, descended more and more,
and finally disappeared somewhere behind the trees of the forest. I
believed myself dreaming and rubbed my eyes, as this simply could not
be true, what I had just seen. From my standing position the object
looked like two laid together, semi-rounded great discs, just like a
discus looks."
     "At first I sat down for a while and deliberated. Perhaps I
should return to civilization and have myself examined by a medic. But
then I decided that I had better examine the occurrence more
thoroughly before I should decide on that step. I took my compass then
and determined the direction where I had seen the object going down.
Then I packed a bundle and marched out, always checking the direction
by the compass. This was nearly east. With much trouble and sweat I
penetrated the environment and made it through the rankly growing
backwood, on and always on. It seemed I would never get there, and I
already wanted to give up and return. I was three or more hours on the
way and still had found nothing, and so I must have suffered a
hallucination. From my calculations I should have come upon the object
by now if it really had landed. I was breathing heavily and soaked
with sweat and wanted to go back. In spite of that, I did not turn
around, for something forced me irresistibly forwards. It seemed I was
being drawn forward without a will to resist. I was attracted, like by
a magnet, which I simply could not resist. This might have continued
for another half an hour. I finally decided I was crazy, because I
suddenly realized something very big and metallic glittering through
the bushes. At first I was paralyzed in unbelief, then got control of
myself and struggled through the last of the barriers. Once more I
considered this a dream, because in a clearing was floating, only
about one meter above the ground, a great discus of metal, certainly
14 or 15 meters in diameter. There was no noise, or else the tones
were inaudible, and yet this discus floated free above the ground
simply in the air. Like I was tied up, I stood there, only about 20
meters away from the object and stared unbelieving. I could not think
any more. I also could not walk. I am used to a lot in all my travels,
and not easily disturbed, but this, I realized, just paralyzed me.
This simply could not be true, because it just could not exist."
     "I don't know how long I stood there, unmoving. I only know
something suddenly touched my arm, and that I then turned, like in a
dream, and what I saw paralyzed me still more, because beside me were
standing two men in diver's suits! I still remember wondering about
that, and asked myself why these two would run in the middle of the
jungle in diver's dresses. Then I realized many differences. These
dresses were very evidently much lighter in weight than any diver's
suits known to me, and the silvery color was not like any diver's
suits I knew of. The two blonde men wore no helmets or other
environmental headgear, but had on their suits strange looking
instruments of different size and form. Still paralyzed, I could not
speak a word, though the men, who evidently belonged to the flying
saucer, did not look malicious and even laughed in a friendly way.
Then one of them spoke, but I could not understand a single word. Then
the second one tried but to no better result. I did not understand a
word. Their language seemed totally strange to me, but of a melodic
and sympathetic sound that in any event calmed me and seemed to loosen
my paralysis."
     "Both men were about the same size, the size of myself, about
1.74 meters. They took me by the arms and guided me to their
spacecraft, which I allowed without resistance. About 5 meters from
the spacecraft they had set up some peculiar things, among which were
some strange stools or chairs, on which we sat down. I still could not
speak. Smiling in a friendly way now, one of them spoke to me, but
again I could not understand anything. His speaking had the effect of
releasing the paralysis and the stiffness was now gone. I became very
calm, and now suddenly I could speak too. In Spanish I inquired in
astonishment about this incomprehensible occurrence, yet now,
evidently, I was not understood. So I tried English with the same
result, as well by my German language of home. We simply could not
talk to each other. Then once more one of the men spoke to me in his
melodic soft voice while he reached to his waist and switched on a
device handing there. It was no bigger than a cigarette box. While
speaking suddenly his language changed, and just as suddenly I heard
Spanish words, then French, and then German. I don't know why but I
was joyfully excited about this, which the man must have noticed
because the German language remained on, and now I realized the men
talking to me in my native language. I still remember very clearly
what they first said, "...now we can talk together by means of our
language translator. Be greeted and do not fear. We are here in peace
and will depart in peace again." These were the first words I could
understand, and I will surely never forget them or the sounding of
their words. It so impressed me that I memorized all very deeply,
believe me."
     "And now that we could talk with one another, I was asked if I
could understand and remember well when they, these men, explained
different things to me. I answered affirmatively, explaining that I
would write it all down in shorthand at once, if this were allowed,
because I was accustomed to this. One answered that this would be very
good, but what was short-hand writing. I wondered about the question
but answered him, for which he thanked me. I got out my shorthand
block and pencil and began to take down a true account of all that was
said among us. Therefore I can give you a true account, word by word,
of our conversation. You will be astonished and unbelieving as I was
myself, but let me give it to you all in order as I have written it
down:"

     "I am Kahun", one of the men said.
     "I am called Athar", was the pronouncement of the other.
     "My name is Horst Fenner", I explained to them.
     "You live here in the wild land?" Athar asked.
     "No, I am only a tourist here, as I am from Germany."
     "What is a tourist?" Athar asked me.
     "A visitor", was my answer.
     "Then Athar and I are tourists", said Kahun
     "How shall I understand this?" was my question.
     "We are not from this world, which you call Earth," answered Kahun.
     "How shall I understand this now?" I asked in astonishment.
     "We are from the stars," answered Kahun, "We are not creatures from
this world".
     "You want to make a joke with me don't you?" I asked, as I really
believed they were joking.
     "No, we come from the stars you call Proxima Centauri", was the
answer of Kahun. "That is the next solar system to this one, a distance
of a rounded 50 billion kilometers according to your distance
measurement."
     "This can't be, but that's utopical", I meant.

(It is easier when I just put the names of the speakers before each
quote, so I will write it this way.)

Kahun: We do not joke.
Horst: Then you must be star-men.
Kahun: So we are, if you want to call us that.
Horst: I cannot believe this.
Athar: We do not speak untruth.
Horst: Shall I really believe this of you?
Kahun: It is the truth.
Horst: This is unbelievable; what are you doing here?
Kahun: We often come to this Earth. We observe the events here and
       consider the development of the human beings. Unfortunately they are
       very much behind in their religious development because of political
       intrigues. The humans of Earth could cause very much mischief by their
       wrong development and struggles for power which may even result in
       other more distant star systems becoming involved. Because of this we
       come to Earth and observe and to prevent, if necessary, worse things
       from developing.
Horst: This sounds quite unbelievable.
Athar: We speak the truth.
Horst: If you really speak the truth, what will you be able to do if
       something really goes wrong?
Kahun: Have no hesitation, we are not alone. Besides our Centaurians are
       still different other space-races on this Earth. Some of these originate
       from much greater distances than we.
Horst: This all sounds utopian to me. What do you intend to do against
       the development of Earth? You cannot yet change all by power. This would
       lead to a war. And wherefrom are the other starmen?
Kahun: I have explained to you that we ae telling the truth. It is not
       utopical. As well we don't want to take any measure against the Earth.
       For this we have no justification, especially not by power, which is
       interdicted for us. So you need not expect and fear a war from our
       side. We have many friends on Earth with whom we have contact, and
       who operate under our advices and orders in a peaceful manner for the
       benefit of all Earth human beings. They spread the knowledge of our
       existence and word about our mission. You name these, your fellow
       creatures, contactees. They work in our order and are attacked with
       enmity because of that. One accuses them of lying and deceit, against
       which they, unfortunately, cannot defend themselves. It is also
       unfortunate that among these good contactee elements are others who
       lie and deceive and make jokes, by which our mission is not helped.
       The more important contactees are often exposed to greater enmites and
       even have their lives threatened. There is a man who was educated as a
       prophet of the presence, whose mission is most important, because he
       must bring anew the real lessons of truth toward Earth-human beings.
       This is the lesson which you call the lesson of Spirit. These lessons
       were transmitted to him from very high spheres of spirit, in
       connection with space-races coming from the starsigns Lyria, the
       Pleiades and the DAL-Universe. Besides these there are staying on
       Earth still different other cosmic races who come here regularly.
       Important missions are performed by these space-races who belong to
       the Pleiadian star group, because they are the distant descendents of
       the forefathers of the Earth human beings, for which reason this great
       mission belongs to their field of operation. These cosmic races
       maintain three different stations on the Earth. They are under the
       leadership of one called Quetzal, whose deputy is a woman about 350
       earth years old called Semjase. She is a daughter of the leader of the
       Pleiadian spacefleet. An Earth contactee of the Pleiadian group is a
       man about 40 years old who lives in Switzerland, and is known as Billy."
Kahun (contd): Different space-races are visiting the Earth as well as
       Earth's neighbor planets, Venus and Mars, where there are only a few
       in small surface stations because these planets are uncolonizable and
       hostile. This is also true of other planetary bodies in this solar
       system where the Earth alone is habitable and sustaining life of a
       material spiritual kind, as is known to you. This is a matter of fact
       which your science may soon witness, in spite of contrary
       affirmations.
Horst: This is unbelievable. Is this really all true?
Athar: We speak the truth.
Horst: I simply cannot believe it. This sounds like a utopical horror.
Kahun: Nevertheless our information is correct.
Horst: I will have to believe it whether I want to or not. Your flying
       saucer is evidence enough for me that you must be right.
Athar: We call our flight machine a beamship.
Horst: May I know something of its drive?
Kahun: We are not allowed to give information about such matters.
Horst: I regret.
Athar: It would be a great help for us if you could assist us.
Horst: Readily, what shall I do?
Athar: We want to entrust you with a mission in connection with our
       existence.
Horst: Should I perhaps write something about you?
Kahun: This would serve our mission.
Horst: I am not crazy. No human being wold take this story for true from
       me, and I would be considered crazy.
Kahun: As you wish. Then our troubles were in vain. We must leave now.
Horst: Wait, it wasn't meant like that. Perhaps I could try where I
       would remain anonymous.
Athar: How shall we understand this?
Horst: Just so, that I do not tell my name.
Kahun: That will not suit the purpose.
Horst: What shall I do then?
Kahun: You would have to go public as a contact person.
Horst: I cannot. I am not crazy.
Athar: Then our conversation is finished.
Horst: I regret this very much but you must understand me.
Kahun: If this is your last decision, then we have finished our
       conversation.
Horst: So be if it must, but I simply can't do otherwise. Can you answer
       me a question?
Kahun: If it does not concern our flight means and instruments, then yes.
Horst: Before you spoke of people who call themselves contactees, but
       are not... can you tell me something about these.
Athar: Why are you interested in that if you want to remain silent?
Horst: It is only a question. On the other hand you have convinced me
       that you really have come from the stars. I would like to learn more,
       but I cannot go out publicly, as you suggest. On one hand no one would
       believe me, and on the other, I am not suited for this.
Kahun: You may be right. Yet, as well, it is your right to know the
       truth... (Here some names were mentioned).
Horst: Dear, are there so many?
Athar: There are still more of them, but they are rather few in
       comparison to the true contactees. Don't you perhaps, want to work for
       our mission?
Horst: It is enticing, but I really cannot. Maybe at a later time. I
       must discuss this with someone else first, thoroughly, who knows the
       whole matter and who is best informed. Can you tell me someone?
Kahun: Go to the most important man of all, but you cannot assume your
       task later. You must decide this now. Either you know already what is
       your duty and what you are able to do, or we must renounce our aid. We
       must be very severe here.
Horst: So I must deny it, for I cannot make a decision now, I regret. I
       will deliberate on this all and perhaps try, at least, to publish this
       experience with you.
Athar: This would delight us and will be useful too. But now, you really
       must go, because we still have to perform other labors. We regret that
       we have guided you here in vain. Go along in peace and do not fear.

     "So far I could write the conversation according to its words,
and in the end, all no longer appeared so fantastic to me. After more
friendly words we said goodbye, and I walked the hours back to
Trinidad, where I arrived shortly before night. All night I lay and
considered this, and I thought of having acted quite stupid, as I
could perhaps have experienced still more from Kahun and Athar by a
sham-agreement. My only thought was that I would be taken for crazy,
if I would indeed publish something about this. Now I really do not
know what I should think of it all, and whether I could have dreamed
it. Please talk about it with my father and pastor and ask them for
their opinion, which please let me know soon. Do also ask the pastor
whether or not one should spread such talk. If he thinks this should
be done, then please do it. I but ask that neither my address or yours
is revealed, because I do not want to be troubled upon my return... I
await an answer by you with your opinion. In one month I may be in La
Paz where you can reach me at the usual address."

     Best wishes until then, and kind greetings to all.
                                        Your Globetrotting Friend,
                                        s/Horst


-------------------------  FURTHER COMMENTS  -------------------------

     Six years after Horst Fenner's letter to his friend, "Astronomy"
magazine for January 1982 published a feature article by Paul Patton
entitled, "The Three Suns of Centaurus," in which he points out the
possibility, even the probability of one of those suns, Alpha Centauri
A, having atmospheric planets even similar to our Earth.
     Alpha Centauri A has been catalogued in spectral class G2 V, the
same as our Sun, and has a mass 1.08 and luminosity 1.3 times that of
our own luminary. Alpha Centauri's surface temperature is only 230K
hotter, 6000K vs. 5770K; and its diameter a little larger, having
comparative radii of 7.3x10^10 cm vs. 6.9x10^10 cm for our central
body. It is about the same age in time and is calculated to have an
eco-system capable of supporting planets just like ours which may be a
little wider and a little farther out.
     Although they have not been seen, there is no fundamental reason
why atmospheric planets just like ours, with life similar to us, could
not survive and even flourish there. If we allow any credence at all
for this contact in southern Bolivia or the contacts going on in
Switzerland and the statements by those visitors that human life has a
common ancestry in space, we may have to accept possibility that some
humans are already traveling the cosmos and may even be coming here.
This also challenges both the Creational and the Evolutionary theories
of our own origin which have come into dispute lately.

--

-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
|     Walter D. "Cruiser1" Pullen     |     [e-mail]     |
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
|   "Who am I, What am I?  As I am, I am not.  But as we are, I AM.  And to   |
-   you my creation, My Perfect Love is your Perfect Freedom. And I will be   -
|   with you forever and ever, until the End, and then forever more." - GOD   |
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
Path: ns-mx!uunet!psinntp!visix!visix!ed
From: [e-mail] (Ed Devinney)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Zontar?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Mar 92 21:47:22 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Sean Donnelly) writes:
>Yes, this person does exist, as I've seen an article on him in the London Times
>Sunday supplement. Apparently he goes into a trance and channels the alien, Zontar
>Zontar, according to the psychic, has no plans for planetary conquest. In fact,
>Zontar claims he's been communicating with Earthlings for centuries. He also
>suggests that humans may have descended from his race.
>
>Any other info on Zontar out there?

A documentary film was made in the '50s.

Go to your local video shop and rent 'Zontar, the Thing From Venus'.
(I'm not making up the title.)

But do it now before the NSA takes them all off the shelves...

--
ed devinney                        [e-mail]
software guy            Visix Software Inc., Reston, VA, USA
    "I wish I could drive the Tractor of Innocence,
     and return to the life I never knew" - King Missile
Path: ns-mx!uunet!van-bc!ubc-cs!unixg.ubc.ca!reg.triumf.ca!vincent
From: [e-mail] (pete)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Mar 92 10:53:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (Kevin J. Cherkauer) writes...
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Enrique Morales) writes:
>>>Something you all may be neglecting is that the elapsed time of an object
>>>travelling near the speed of light is (distance)/(~c) only for the
>>>observer in the planetary frame observing the object going past. For
>>>an observer in the object (craft), velocity and distance behave in a
>>>purely Newtonian fashion, ie. continuing acceleration yields increasing
>>>speed with no limitation, so that several lightyears can be traversed
>>>in a matter of weeks. The only problem is that after decelerating back
>>>to the planetary reference frame, the traveller discovers that some
>>>large number of years have elapsed in that frame. Whether that is a
>>>problem depends on the traveller's psychological disposition. It's
>>>just the same as the twin 'paradox'. If you don't mind missing a few
>>>hundred years of history, it's no big deal.
>
>If you are a true relativity fan, then you should not believe the twin paradox
>exists. Both the traveller and earthbound humans will have experienced
>identical time passage when the alien decelerates to Earth's frame. The
>acceleration-deceleration for the trip is entirely symmetric. That is, the
>alien's acceleration toward earth can be viewed as acceleration of the earth
>toward the alien, and likewise when the alien decelerates upon arrival. This
>...
>The twin paradox emerges when one takes *special* relativity, a theory which
>holds for *nonaccelerating* reference frames *ONLY*, and mindlessly applies it
>to accelerating reference frames. This makes no sense at all, but people insist
>on doing it. Einstein himself fell into this trap and came up with the
>so-called "twin paradox," but then he later realized his mistake, calling it
>the greatest mistake of his life, I believe. He then tried to convince people
>that his theories did *not* predict a twin paradox, but people being the way
>they are were already much too enamoured with the science-fictiony way-cool
>idea of the twin paradox, so they wouldn't listen.
>
>It is amazing indeed to open up a physics textbook and watch the author blindly
>apply special relativity to noninertial frames and, voila, derive the twin
>paradox. Such "proofs" are nothing but meaningless algebraic doodlings, akin to
>using division by zero to prove that some relation holds.
>
>--
>Kevin Cherkauer
>
First of all, I made the above quoted remarks, not Enrique. And second,
 your responses are uniformly incorrect on all counts. Knowing this
group, I'll just get out of the way and let the regular relativity
posters deal with the specifics of your errors.
===========================================================================
A cynic's world is comprised                          Pete Vincent
of fools and other cynics
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!cunews!wcstom
From: [e-mail] (Tom Hamill)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Mar 92 13:28:50 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: tom hamill
Followup-To: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Organization: Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada
Lines: 56
Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2446 alt.religion.kibology:1291 alt.sex:59777 alt.alien.visitors:5054

In article [e-mail] (Mikel Bancroft CG) writes:
>In article [e-mail] (PIOTR CEZARY  PROSZYNSKI) writes:
>>In article [e-mail] (Po Shan Cheah) writes:
>>>In article [e-mail] (Russ Taylor) writes:
>>>>In article [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) writes:
>>>>>In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>>>>>>In article [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) writes...
>>>>>>>In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>>>>>>>>In article [e-mail] (Daniel Dise) said...
>>>>>>>>%In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>>>>>>>>%>In article [e-mail] (Michael Wasylik) writes...
>>>>>>>>%>>In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>>>>>>>>%>>>In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) said...
>>>>>>>>%>>>%In article <[e-mail]> writes...
>>>>>>>>%>>>%>In article [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) says:
>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>In article [e-mail](Lawrence C. Foard)
>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>
>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>
>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>They will just mutate to get around it!
>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>
>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>Evolution is god!
>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>Sanitation is fraud:
>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>Santa Claus baits God.
>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>Satin draws mates bod.
>>>>>>>>%>>>%>I sat in Ward's tame knob.
>>>>>>>>%>>>%I set a weird time bomb.
>>>>>>>>%>>>I shed a weird tie, Bob...
>>>>>>>>%>>I shot a wet teen babe.
>>>>>>>>%>Izod's a wasp trend, Biff.
>>>>>>>>%I drove off a west end cliff
>>>>>>>>I rode to arrest a lift.
>>>>>>>Electrodes tie my wrists.
>>>>>>Erode the Mai Tai wisps.
>>>>>Erotic in tiny sips.
>>>>Exotic Women in slips!
>>>Eclectic cows without lips.
>>Electric eels at my heels.
>Drunken seals slip on peels.
Strumpet's deals on slippery meals.

---tom

l~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~l
l      CRUSH---CompassionRespectUnderstandingSelfHonesty---CRUSH      l
l         How could you have ever lived your life without it?         l
l               Join Now, Apply Within.  Spread the word.             l
l_________________________         ---me, trying to save the world,   l
l [e-mail] l                         from itself.       l
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!fnal.fnal.gov!raph
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Abducted while driving?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Mar 92 13:49:09 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (The Daily Lose)
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
Lines: 53

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>
>     Tell me what you think...
>
>     I was driving home from my girlfriend's house on a country
> back-road late one night, probably two or three o'clock in the m
> morning.
>     Anyway, when you're driving down this back road, you
> have to stop at this somewhat major intersection that has a
> four-way stop. The road you cross is a somewhat busy road, and
> you just can't miss it because it's very well lit due to there being
> several accidents in that area, because people drive like maniacs.
>     So, I'm on my way home and the song "You Make Me So Very
> Happy" comes on the radio as I go over the top of one of many hills
> along this old road.
>     So I'm drivin'. And drivin'. And drivin'. And I'm thinking,
> where the hell is this four-way stop. It should be here soon, shouldn't
> it?
>     Suddenly, I come over the next hill and I beside this old grave-
> yard where I always turn off to go to my house. Only, this graveyard is
> at least five miles away from this four-way stop. Also, the song that
> had just come on the radio was suddenly over.
>     My girlfriend thinks I slept through the four-way stop, but
> I really don't think so. It's too far of a distance to sleep through.
>
> Any thoughts? This happened about three years ago.
> Nik
>
Over the past four years I have run into several people who have had
abduction experiences.  I had been sure previously that such experiences were
not genuine
(e.g. due to misobservation, neurotic desire for attention, psychotic
episode, petite mal episode, etc.).  I no longer can dismiss these
experiences so easily, especially since a good friend of mine confided that
she had several of them; I was present subsequently at two of them.

First off though, it is normal to have memory lapses during periods of
tiredness, and boredom while doing repetitive tasks, like driving down long,
dark familiar roads.  This happens, and is no big deal.

What is *not* normal, is to 1) see something extremely peculiar (e.g. a
glowing UFO by the road, or other anomaly); 2) extended surrealistic
episodes, such as having the brake, gas pedal and steering wheel stop
responding to you, and the car continue at a very slow speed for many minutes
or even miles;  3) extreme disorientation or shock afterwards which is
apparent to others;  4) nightmares and dreams and perhaps sleeping disorders
afterwards; 5) extreme reluctance or embarrassment or emotional turmoil in
recalling, relating or dealing with the incident.  These indicate a traumatic
incident.

Did any of these happen to you, other than the memory lapse?

            Cordially, Jim Hawtree <[e-mail]>
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!news.cs.indiana.edu!lynx!zia.aoc.nrao.edu!juphoff
From: [e-mail] (Jeff Uphoff)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Mar 92 15:47:30 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: National Radio Astronomy Observatory, Socorro NM
Lines: 54
Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2450 alt.religion.kibology:1297 alt.sex:59784 alt.alien.visitors:5056

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) writes:
>In article [e-mail] (Mikel Bancroft CG) writes:
>>In article [e-mail] (PIOTR CEZARY  PROSZYNSKI) writes:
>>>In article [e-mail] (Po Shan Cheah) writes:
>>>>In article [e-mail] (Russ Taylor) writes:
>>>>>In article [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) writes:
>>>>>>In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>>>>>>>In article [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) writes...
>>>>>>>>In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>>>>>>>>>In article [e-mail] (Daniel Dise) said...
>>>>>>>>>%In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>>>>>>>>>%>In article [e-mail] (Michael Wasylik) writes...
>>>>>>>>>%>>In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>>>>>>>>>%>>>In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) said...
>>>>>>>>>%>>>%In article <[e-mail]> writes...
>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>In article [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) says:
>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>In article [e-mail](Lawrence C. Foard)
>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>They will just mutate to get around it!
>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>Evolution is god!
>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>Sanitation is fraud:
>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>Santa Claus baits God.
>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>Satin draws mates bod.
>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>I sat in Ward's tame knob.
>>>>>>>>>%>>>%I set a weird time bomb.
>>>>>>>>>%>>>I shed a weird tie, Bob...
>>>>>>>>>%>>I shot a wet teen babe.
>>>>>>>>>%>Izod's a wasp trend, Biff.
>>>>>>>>>%I drove off a west end cliff
>>>>>>>>>I rode to arrest a lift.
>>>>>>>>Electrodes tie my wrists.
>>>>>>>Erode the Mai Tai wisps.
>>>>>>Erotic in tiny sips.
>>>>>Exotic Women in slips!
>>>>Eclectic cows without lips.
>>>Electric eels at my heels.
>>Drunken seals slip on peels.
>Strumpet's deals on slippery meals.
Redesigning the wheel with zeal.

--
Jeff Uphoff -- "Uppie"     |  The post office raises the price of stamps,
                           |  becomes a paying sponsor of the olympics,
[e-mail]  |  then purcahses ad time on tv to brag about it.
[e-mail]   |    Is this a great country or what?
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!bible
From: [e-mail] (Anthony E Bible)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Mar 92 16:39:21 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames, IA
Lines: 45
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5057 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1219

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James Davis Nicoll) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Anthony E Bible) writes:

[stuff deleted]

>>    It appears to me that it would take about a year (local time) to get up
>>to speed (and another year to get down from speed) if you could sustain an
>>acceleration of one earth-gravity.  I guess if you get close enough to the
>>speed of light the transit time becomes negligible, so it would take about a
>>couple years, and that does not seem too bad.  'Course you could reduce the
>>time by increasing the g's, but that takes us back to alternate biology for the
>>aliens.
>
>    This is misleading, because newtonian calculations diverge from
>observations as you approach C. A year will get you to .78 C, where the
>dilation is something like 0.63. Shorter, but it still takes 4.6 years to get
>to Alpha Centauri and about 6.4 years to cross the average distance between
>stars in this neighborhood.
>
>    Even 1 gee constant acceleration takes 3.5 years to get to AC.
>

    Hmmmm.  Are these times cast in spaceship reference or the reference
of an external observer?  I guess I'd like to know how you arrived at them.  My
(admittedly poor) understanding of near-light speed is that the space-ship time
would run so slowly compared to external time that the enroute elapsed time
would appear negligible to the travelers.  That would leave only the time to
get up to and down from light-speed.


[other stuff deleted]


>
>    Note that if you *do* get up near C, the interstellar medium presents
>a significant problem, as you plow through it. From the ship POV, it's
>getting fried by a relativistic beam of particles...
>
>                            James Nicoll

    Interesting.  I hadn't thought of that.  Seems like a potential source
of usuable energy.

Regards,
tony
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!dsinc!pitt.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!seawasp
From: [e-mail] (Ryk E Spoor)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Mar 92 16:44:15 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Lines: 47
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5058 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1220

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David Plumpton) writes:
>If spacecraft were entering our solar system using any sort of propulsion
>system we are likely to understand, they should be easily seen by amateur
>astronomers as they shed their delta-v.

    Suppose it depends on exactly HOW they shed their delta-v. Sure, if
they decelerate by solar sail they'd stand out like James Earl Jones
at a KKK rally, but what if they decelerate by, oh, ion rocket or something
else that doesn't radiate in the visible? A lot less attention is paid
by all the amateurs to the nonvisible. Also, if they were smart about it
and knew our tech level, they could make sure that they simply decelerated
from a counter-earth direction. Then we couldn't detect them very easily
at all.

    If you mean that they'd be detected as object that changed course,
like moving asteroids, I won't buy it. Not unless you think they're all
going to be the  size of the Death Star.

>On the other hand, E.T.s with technology advanced enough to get in totally
>undetected (consider the number of people world-wide searching for new
>comets), they would probably have seen so much of the universe as to be
>completely uninterested in us.

    Then why do we study ants?

    Seriously, that argument is not really supportable. The more WE
learn, the less we know. The Earth has a complex ecology and a dominant
lifeform learning to manipulate quite complex technology. Our social
structure alone would be worthwhile to study for quite a few very advanced
peoples. WE would LOVE to be able to find a large, independent, isolated
society of truly primitive people to study.
    SO, if humans show a lot of traits in common with the aliens,
they'd study us to see if they can get more insights on themselves, as
well as to evaluate us as a race. If we were very different, they'd
want to study us to learn more about the diversity of races.

                Sea Wasp

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
.        ..               .             .        *           .      .
 .     .      :      .        _*_    .        .          .             ..
.   .     .   .      @---====OOOOO====---@~/^\    .     .       .       .
   .   *     .     ..         ^*^  .    .  ;;;      .      .      .   *
 :    .     .    .        .      .            .*         .     .        .
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Interphase Accomplished.
Sea Wasp docked, Outring Sector 5.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!rice!hsdndev!spdcc!dirtydog.ima.isc.com!ispd-newsserver!laidbak!tellab5!jcj
From: [e-mail] (jcj)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re^2: Abducted while driving?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Mar 92 18:59:36 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News)
Organization: Wazmodyne Industries
Lines: 16
Nntp-Posting-Host: sungb

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>>     So I'm drivin'. And drivin'. And drivin'. And I'm thinking...
>> Any thoughts? This happened about three years ago.
>> Nik
>>
>Over the past four years I have run into several people who have had
>...  I no longer can dismiss these experiences so easily, especially
>since a good friend of mine confided that she had several of them; I was
>present subsequently at two of them.
>
>            Cordially, Jim Hawtree <[e-mail]>

I see from your signature that you're at Fermi Lab. Care to elaborate
on where these incidents took place?  Were these anywhere near FNAL?
--
              [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!apple!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Abducted while driving?
Message-ID: <4g=[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Mar 92 22:45:28 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 40

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>>
>Over the past four years I have run into several people who have had
>abduction experiences.  I had been sure previously that such experiences were
>not genuine
>
>What is *not* normal, is to 1) see something extremely peculiar (e.g. a
>glowing UFO by the road, or other anomaly); 2) extended surrealistic
>episodes, such as having the brake, gas pedal and steering wheel stop
>responding to you, and the car continue at a very slow speed for many minutes
>or even miles;  3) extreme disorientation or shock afterwards which is
>apparent to others;  4) nightmares and dreams and perhaps sleeping disorders
>afterwards; 5) extreme reluctance or embarrassment or emotional turmoil in
>recalling, relating or dealing with the incident.  These indicate a traumatic
>incident.
>
>Did any of these happen to you, other than the memory lapse?
>

This is what is called "leading the witness." The subject begins remembering
very, very hard, and by golly, just maybe, Number 3 (or Number 5 or
whatever) *DID* happen to me!! NOW I can remember it!

And here, right before our eyes, another "confirmation" of UFO
abductions is being conjured up into existence, whether it happened
or not. The *proper* way to proceed in such a situation is to
get the subject to tell you all he can, WITHOUT suggesting to him
in any way the kind of responses you are expecting. Because
this is difficult, it probably seldom, if ever, happens.

And now you know why so many "UFO abductees" tell similar stories.

--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

               "The facts can only take you so far in this case.",
      - Oliver Stone, discussing "JFK" on CBS-TV's "48 Hours", Feb. 5, 1992
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!news.ysu.edu!ysub!cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu!34ml2ob
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: BigBrother/BigSister Survey
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Mar 92 19:31:20 GMT
Organization: Central Michigan University
Lines: 15

We are conducting a survey to see if there is an interest in
creating a newgroup for/about Big Brothers/Big Sisters. The main
idea for the group would be to share ideas (neat things to do with
your little) and problems that that you might have (with littles or
problems with Finding littles). We are looking into setting up such
a group in one of two forms, a) a national netnews group and b) a
Subscription list in which all posts are e-mailed right to you.
     We would like to know if there is an interest in such a group
and if so what form (E-mail list or Netnews group) you would like
best. And any comments and/or suggestions that you might have for
such a project. Please E-mail responses to [e-mail]

Thank-you!
Dr. Roger Van Horn, Professor of Psychology, Central Michigan University
Susan Peterson, Psychology Teaching Assitant
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!van-bc!ubc-cs!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!csd.unb.ca!morgan.ucs.mun.ca!nstn.ns.ca!pony.acadiau.ca!ace.acadiau.ca!911414p
From: [e-mail] (PIOTR CEZARY  PROSZYNSKI)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Mar 92 22:04:41 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENet News)
Organization: Acadia University
Lines: 51
Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2453 alt.religion.kibology:1300 alt.sex:59805 alt.alien.visitors:5062
Nntp-Posting-Host: 131.162.30.14

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jeff Uphoff) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) writes:
>>In article [e-mail] (Mikel Bancroft CG) writes:
>>>In article [e-mail] (PIOTR CEZARY  PROSZYNSKI) writes:
>>>>In article [e-mail] (Po Shan Cheah) writes:
>>>>>In article [e-mail] (Russ Taylor) writes:
>>>>>>In article [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) writes:
>>>>>>>In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>>>>>>>>In article [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) writes...
>>>>>>>>>In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>>>>>>>>>>In article [e-mail] (Daniel Dise) said...
>>>>>>>>>>%In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>>>>>>>>>>%>In article [e-mail] (Michael Wasylik) writes...
>>>>>>>>>>%>>In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) said...
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%In article <[e-mail]> writes...
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>In article [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) says:
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>In article [e-mail](Lawrence C. Foard)
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>They will just mutate to get around it!
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>Evolution is god!
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>Sanitation is fraud:
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>Santa Claus baits God.
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>Satin draws mates bod.
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>I sat in Ward's tame knob.
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%I set a weird time bomb.
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>I shed a weird tie, Bob...
>>>>>>>>>>%>>I shot a wet teen babe.
>>>>>>>>>>%>Izod's a wasp trend, Biff.
>>>>>>>>>>%I drove off a west end cliff
>>>>>>>>>>I rode to arrest a lift.
>>>>>>>>>Electrodes tie my wrists.
>>>>>>>>Erode the Mai Tai wisps.
>>>>>>>Erotic in tiny sips.
>>>>>>Exotic Women in slips!
>>>>>Eclectic cows without lips.
>>>>Electric eels at my heels.
>>>Drunken seals slip on peels.
>>Strumpet's deals on slippery meals.
>Redesigning the wheel with zeal.
Redirect - please - this rhyme; 'tis time!
Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2
From: [e-mail] (barry.o.olson)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Mar 92 00:31:57 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: blahblahblah
Organization: AT&T
Lines: 35
Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2457 alt.religion.kibology:1303 alt.sex:59815 alt.alien.visitors:5063

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) writes:
> In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
> >And then in [e-mail] (Daniel Dise) said...
> >% In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
> >% >In article [e-mail] (Michael Wasylik) writes...
> >% >>In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
> >% >>>And then in [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) said...
> >% >>>% In article <[e-mail]> writes...
> >% >>>% >In article [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) says:
> >% >>>% >>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
> >% >>>% >>>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
> >% >>>% >>>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
> >% >>>% >>>>> In article [e-mail] (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
> >% >>>% >>>>> >In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
> >% >>>% >>>>>
> >% >>>% >>>>> >>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
> >% >>>% >>>>>
> >% >>>% >>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it!
> >% >>>% >>>>>
> >% >>>% >>>>> >Evolution is god!
> >% >>>% >>>>> Sanitation is fraud:
> >% >>>% >>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
> >% >>>% >>>Santa Claus baits God.
> >% >>>% >>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
> >% >>>% >>Satin draws mates bod.
> >% >>>% >I sat in Ward's tame knob.
> >% >>>% I set a weird time bomb.
> >% >>>I shed a weird tie, Bob...
> >% >>I shot a wet teen babe.
> >% >Izod's a wasp trend, Biff.
> >% I drove off a west end cliff
> >I rode to arrest a lift.
> Electrodes tie my wrists.
It whiffed a snowy sniff
>
Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2
From: [e-mail] (barry.o.olson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: ? Majestic Twelve ?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Mar 92 00:38:02 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: AT&T
Lines: 17

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Oakley C) writes:
> In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (C. Ian Connolly) writes:
>
> >In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (barry.o.olson) writes:
> >>You must mean the MJ twelve. these guys are actual descendants of the
> >>star people from the planet Marij-juana from the horsehead galaxy.
>
> >No, no - you're thinking of the "Hosehead Nebula"
>
> No. I think you mean HORSEhead (unless the Hosehead Nebula looks like some gardening implement)_


They are so damn secretive, it's hard to establish exactly Where they are
from originally. They want you to Believe it is only a Nebula! Hosehead-
Horsehead is really a side track.

Can't sign my name now - God I hate being on the run
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2
From: [e-mail] (barry.o.olson)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Mar 92 00:59:22 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: blahblahblah
Organization: AT&T
Lines: 36
Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2458 alt.religion.kibology:1304 alt.sex:59826 alt.alien.visitors:5065

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) writes...
> >In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
> >>And then in [e-mail] (Daniel Dise) said...
> >>% In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
> >>% >In article [e-mail] (Michael Wasylik) writes...
> >>% >>In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
> >>% >>>And then in [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) said...
> >>% >>>% In article <[e-mail]> writes...
> >>% >>>% >In article [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) says:
> >>% >>>% >>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
> >>% >>>% >>>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
> >>% >>>% >>>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
> >>% >>>% >>>>> In article [e-mail] (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
> >>% >>>% >>>>> >In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
> >>% >>>% >>>>>
> >>% >>>% >>>>> >>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
> >>% >>>% >>>>>
> >>% >>>% >>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it!
> >>% >>>% >>>>>
> >>% >>>% >>>>> >Evolution is god!
> >>% >>>% >>>>> Sanitation is fraud:
> >>% >>>% >>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
> >>% >>>% >>>Santa Claus baits God.
> >>% >>>% >>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
> >>% >>>% >>Satin draws mates bod.
> >>% >>>% >I sat in Ward's tame knob.
> >>% >>>% I set a weird time bomb.
> >>% >>>I shed a weird tie, Bob...
> >>% >>I shot a wet teen babe.
> >>% >Izod's a wasp trend, Biff.
> >>% I drove off a west end cliff
> >>I rode to arrest a lift.
> >Electrodes tie my wrists.
> Erode the Mai Tai wisps.
Enough of chattled lisps
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2
From: [e-mail] (barry.o.olson)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.scientology,alt.sex
Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Mar 92 01:19:59 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: blahblahblah
Organization: AT&T
Lines: 44
Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2459 alt.alien.visitors:5066 alt.religion.scientology:1896 alt.sex:59833

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Neal Johnson) writes:
> >In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
> >>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) writes...
> >>>In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
> >>>>And then in [e-mail] (Daniel Dise) said...
> >>>>% In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
> >>>>% >In article [e-mail] (Michael Wasylik) writes...
> >>>>% >>In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
> >>>>% >>>And then in [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) said...
> >>>>% >>>% In article <[e-mail]> writes...
> >>>>% >>>% >In article [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) says:
> >>>>% >>>% >>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
> >>>>% >>>% >>>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
> >>>>% >>>% >>>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
> >>>>% >>>% >>>>> In article [e-mail] (Lawrence C. Foard) writes:
> >>>>% >>>% >>>>> >In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
> >>>>% >>>% >>>>>
> >>>>% >>>% >>>>> >>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
> >>>>% >>>% >>>>>
> >>>>% >>>% >>>>> >They will just mutate to get around it!
> >>>>% >>>% >>>>>
> >>>>% >>>% >>>>> >Evolution is god!
> >>>>% >>>% >>>>> Sanitation is fraud:
> >>>>% >>>% >>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
> >>>>% >>>% >>>Santa Claus baits God.
> >>>>% >>>% >>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
> >>>>% >>>% >>Satin draws mates bod.
> >>>>% >>>% >I sat in Ward's tame knob.
> >>>>% >>>% I set a weird time bomb.
> >>>>% >>>I shed a weird tie, Bob...
> >>>>% >>I shot a wet teen babe.
> >>>>% >Izod's a wasp trend, Biff.
> >>>>% I drove off a west end cliff
> >>>>I rode to arrest a lift.
> >>>Electrodes tie my wrists.
> >>Erode the Mai Tai wisps.
> >He rode the May Day WASPS.
> She ate the Payday wrapper.
She fell in the Fenway crapper
>
>
> GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH.  I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT.
> YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!att!cbnewsd!press2
From: [e-mail] (barry.o.olson)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.scientology,alt.sex
Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Mar 92 01:24:50 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: blahblahblah
Organization: AT&T
Lines: 25
Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2460 alt.alien.visitors:5067 alt.religion.scientology:1897 alt.sex:59834

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Russ Taylor) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
> [Intervening drivel removed]
> >>He rode the May Day WASPS.
> >She ate the Payday wrapper.
> >
> >
> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH.  I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT.
> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*.
> >
> >
> >
> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you
> added your ten cents?  A thousand-degree flame on you!
>
> (homey don't play dat!)
>
> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth?
while snoopy ate a sandwich
> And why is this a waste of it?
because he made a paste of it
>
> Russ "gremlins" Taylor
he never was a sailor
> [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2
From: [e-mail] (barry.o.olson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: BigBrother/BigSister Survey
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Mar 92 02:11:30 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: AT&T
Lines: 24

In article <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]> writes:
> We are conducting a survey to see if there is an interest in
> creating a newgroup for/about Big Brothers/Big Sisters. The main
> idea for the group would be to share ideas (neat things to do with
> your little) and problems that that you might have (with littles or
> problems with Finding littles). We are looking into setting up such
> a group in one of two forms, a) a national netnews group and b) a
> Subscription list in which all posts are e-mailed right to you.
>      We would like to know if there is an interest in such a group
> and if so what form (E-mail list or Netnews group) you would like
> best. And any comments and/or suggestions that you might have for
> such a project. Please E-mail responses to [e-mail]
>
> Thank-you!
> Dr. Roger Van Horn, Professor of Psychology, Central Michigan University
> Susan Peterson, Psychology Teaching Assitant
Notice how they mispell "assistant"

>
Don't do it! It's a cryptic message from the Greys! Note the key
words, "neat things to do with your little", Ha, how obvious!
Another, "with littles or problems with finding littles"!
Sure, start a network like this and in no time they will be
able to track down all our littles(children)for the kettles!
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!unixhub!stanford.edu!hubcap!mbcamps
From: [e-mail] (Matt Campbell)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.drugs,alt.psychoactives
Subject: Re: A Message from Psilocybin
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Mar 92 19:58:19 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Clemson University
Lines: 4
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5069 alt.drugs:24001 alt.psychoactives:786

Ten grams of mushrooms sounds pretty good...but ten grams of pure
Psilocybin?!?!!?  HAIRY INDEED!!!

Matt
Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!griffin!kraken!sctether
From: [e-mail] (Jason Etheridge)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs
Message-ID: <sctether.701501605@kraken>
Date: 25 Mar 92 05:33:25 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: ITC, Griffith University, Brisbane, Australia
Lines: 24
Nntp-Posting-Host: kraken.itc.gu.edu.au

[e-mail] (Oakley C) writes:

>In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jeff Robertson) writes:
>>
>>Now, I know the Bible mentions only Earth as being blessed with life, but it
>>never once EXCLUDED the existance of life elsewhere...so, I'm not too quick
>>to discount anyone's UFO experience based on this.


>Well, just as a matter of interest, there are 4 words in the Bible relating to extra-terrestrial life or lack of
>and these 4 words (pretty difficult to find 4 words in something that has over 65,000) are.....

>God of many worlds

>Hope that this refutes what the guy says and anyway, I don't recall that the bible says that we are the only
>planet blessed with life either. If it does then I apologise for my ignorance.

May I just inquire as to what possible difference it makes what the bible
says?  If you discount the possibility of alien life merely because a
particular ancient (and much altered) text does not contain any reference
to it, well, is eems just a tad naive.

What the bible says really should not be of any consideration in this matter
(and arguably in any other).
Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!ux.acs.umn.edu!csd1227
From: [e-mail] (Greg Larson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: UFOs to be discussed on Larry King
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Mar 92 08:32:57 GMT
Organization: University of Minnesota
Lines: 3

The posts here have been kind of odd lately, but in case somebody is
interested, at least one of the topics on The Larry King Show will
be about UFOs.  It is supposed to air Wednesday evening.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!news.bbn.com!noc.near.net!mars.caps.maine.edu!bates!mperron
From: [e-mail] (Mike Perron)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs to be discussed on Larry King
Keywords: sightings,ufo
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Mar 92 10:45:41 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Bates College, Lewiston, ME
Lines: 23


    A great show indeed the author of the book is David Jacobs PHD from Temple.  The book is ten years worth of research and interviews with abductees.
The name of the book is Secret Life.  If anyone has read please let us know what you think of it.

    While on this topic, it brings to mind a sighting I had which I hope
someone can give an explanation for.  It was 1:30am on top of a local hilltop
when looking intensely up at the clear sky I noticed single lighted or star
like objects at high altitude moving at a steady speed. Much like a jet looks
from the ground.  The problem is that from my view a span of about 5 miles, the
sky was full of these (objects). I estimated more than 1000 to 2000 points of
light. I didn't hear much of anything but was amazed. I left quickly to tel-
ephone a friend to have him check from his home but when I reached a phone they
were no longer visible.

    I questioned manuvers of some kind, but the high count seemed unlikely.
Anyone having an explanation or similiar experience I would appreciate hearing
from you.

    Unfortunately I was not abducted.

Mike P.
mperron(at)mother.bates.edu

Path: ns-mx!uunet!meaddata!dougr
From: [e-mail] (Doug Ritter)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: So You Think You're a Clone, Eh?
Keywords: Sorry, it was too good to pass up!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Mar 92 17:07:17 GMT
Sender: Doug (President of the Al Yankovic Fan Club) Ritter
Organization: Clones-Be-Us
Lines: 51

"I Think I'm a Clone Now"
words by W.A. Yankovic

Sung to the tune of "I Think We're Alone Now"


Isn't it strange?
Feels like I'm lookin' in a mirror.
What would people say?
If only they knew that I was
part of some genetisist's plan?
Born to be a carbon copy man.
There in a petri dish late one night,
they took a donor's body cell and
fertilized a human egg.  So I say


I think I'm a clone now.
There's always two of me just hangin' around.
I think I'm a clone now,
cause every chromosome is a hand-me-down.


Look at the way
we go out walkin' close together.
I guess you could say,
I'm really beside myself.
I still remember how it began,
they produced a carbon copy man.
Born in a science lab late one night
without a mother or a father.
Just a test tube and a womb with a view.


I think I'm a clone now.
I can stay at home when I'm out of town.
I think I'm a clone now.
Cause every pair of genes is a hand-me-down.


Signing autographs for my fans
come and meet the carbon copy man.
Living in stereo, it's alright.
Well I can be my own best friend
And I can send myself for pizza.


I think I'm a clone now.
I've been on Opra Winfrey, I'm world reknown.
I think I'm a clone now.
That's my genetic twin just hangin' around.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!infonode!case
From: [e-mail] (Bill Case)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: "Do you want to work for our mission?"
Summary: Hollywood writers on coke
Keywords: Alpha Centauri
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Mar 92 17:42:53 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Intergraph Corporation, Huntsville, AL.
Lines: 82

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Walter D. Pullen) writes:
>
> I did not turn
> around, for something forced me irresistibly forwards. It seemed I was
> being drawn forward without a will to resist. I was attracted, like by
> a magnet, which I simply could not resist......

Does  this imply a slow,  robot-like walk with staring eyes?  Just how
close to a celluloid hero role was Horst living out?

> I still remember wondering about
> that, and asked myself why these two would run in the middle of the
> jungle in diver's dresses.

That would have been my reaction to guys in diving gear in the jungle!

> Then one of them spoke, but I could not understand a single word.

Darn the luck.

> I still remember very clearly
> what they first said, "...now we can talk together by means of our
> language translator.

>      "What is a tourist?" Athar asked me.

So they're smart enough for a language translator,  but they don't
know what tourist means. Sounds suspicious.  This isn't a big Reader's
Digest ""Word Power"" term.

>      "We are not from this world, which you call Earth," answered Kahun.

Hey,  I've heard this line somewhere before.  The Bixou,  Embassy, or Tri-plex.

>      "We are from the stars," answered Kahun, "We are not creatures from
> this world".

Really! Did the diving gear look local?

>      "No, we come from the stars..
> Horst: Then you must be star-men.

No wonder they trusted Horst.  The insight!

> Kahun: So we are, if you want to call us that.
> Horst: I cannot believe this.
> Athar: We do not speak untruth.
> Horst: Shall I really believe this of you?
> Kahun: It is the truth.

This is bad saucer etiquette from  Horst.  I wouldn't call saucer people
liars while on board.

> Kahun: We often come to this Earth. We observe the events here and
>        consider the development of the human beings....
:
> She is a daughter of the leader of the Pleiadian spacefleet.
:
> Athar: We call our flight machine a beamship.
:
> Athar: We want to entrust you with a mission in connection with our
>        existence.
> Horst: Should I perhaps write something about you?
> Kahun: This would serve our mission.

Ugh,  ugh,  ugh!

I try to be open minded about these things,  but this account is so loaded
with mid-50's sci-fi movie dialog that I think the chances of aliens
actually  talking like this is pretty darn slim.  It's sorta like translating
some new God revelation and having it read like the King James Bible because,
hey,  that's the way it's suppose to sound,  right?  This stilted language,
"We are not of this world,  which you call Earth" is someone's attempt to make
these people seem unearthly.   They wouldn't dare say "Howdy, Dude
Horst.  Is this a gas encounter or what?"  Of course if the translator doesn't
know "tourist",  but does know ""utoptical",  then "Dude" is probably
out.

Bill "I come in pieces" Case
...uunet!ingr!b11!casey!case    (UUCP)
ingr!b11!casey![e-mail] (ARPANET)
[e-mail]                (Internet)
Path: ns-mx!uunet!lll-winken!overload.lbl.gov!dog.ee.lbl.gov!csa2.lbl.gov!sichase
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT I CHASE)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Mar 92 19:32:07 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Distribution: na
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Lines: 25
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5075 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1231
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.197
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Anthony E Bible) writes...

>>    Note that if you *do* get up near C, the interstellar medium presents
>>a significant problem, as you plow through it. From the ship POV, it's
>>getting fried by a relativistic beam of particles...
>>
>>                            James Nicoll
>
>    Interesting.  I hadn't thought of that.  Seems like a potential source
>of usuable energy.
>
Yes, but only for slowing down!  The same thing could be said about the Cosmic
Background Radiation.  It is blue-shifted in front of you, red-shifted behind.
Seems like you could use the temperature difference to make an engine, but
it will never compensate for the net radiation pressure on the front of your
craft.  Same thing for the interstellar medium crashing into the front
of your ship.

On the other hand, the medium is primarily hydrogen, and could be collected
as fuel for a proton fusion reactor.  This, by releasing energy on a nuclear
scale (MeV/proton) would compensate for the loss due to the momentum of the
oncoming beam of hydrogen, up to some point anyway, buy not anywhere near
the speed of light.

-Scott
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!fnal.fnal.gov!raph
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Mar 92 23:08:48 GMT
References: <=[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (The Daily Lose)
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
Lines: 83
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5076 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1234

In article <[e-mail]>,
> [e-mail] (David Plumpton) writes:
> Something I've wondered about that pertains to this thread seems to preclude
> the existence of UFOs.  Consider this:
>
> If spacecraft were entering our solar system using any sort of propulsion
> system we are likely to understand, they should be easily seen by amateur
> astronomers as they shed their delta-v.
>
> On the other hand, E.T.s with technology advanced enough to get in totally
> undetected (consider the number of people world-wide searching for new
> comets), they would probably have seen so much of the universe as to be
> completely uninterested in us.
>
> Either way, it doesn't look good for UFOs.  I can see some flaws in this
> argument, but on the whole I find it so compelling that I don't believe
> in UFOs, even though I once saw one (i.e. unexplained sighting that didn't
> look like it could possibly be anything normal).
>
> Any thoughts on this matter?
>
> --
> /------------------------------\ /-------------------------------\
> I       David Plumpton          I     There is a holy trinity:    |
> I [e-mail] I N Tesla, R Feynman and C Sagan  |
> \------------------------------/ \-------------------------------/

It is true that we do not know how to accelerate matter faster than c.  But,
it is not true that *nothing* can travel faster than c.  Information can.

The EPR paradox (for Einstein, Rosen and Podolsky) from 1935 was an argument
that quantum mechanics predicts that it is possible to transfer information
faster than c.  (BTW, Einstein did not care for the implications: he called
it "spooky action at a distance.")   Recently experiments have shown that that
is indeed the case.  Although we do not know how to move matter instantly
over distances, we can demonstrate that we can transfer information about spin
properties over distances faster than c.

There are several articles on the EPR paradox that I have here.  All are from
reputable physics journals, none are from new-age crackpots.  These can be read
by anyone with a year or two of college physics, and a reasonable IQ (although
they are not exactly easy reading).

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
N. David Mermin, "Is the Moon there when nobody looks?  Reality and the Quantum
Theory," _Physics Today_, April 1985, 10pp.  (Excellent)

J. S. Bell, "Bertlmann's socks and the nature of reality," _Journal de
Physique_, Colloque C2, supplement au No3, Tome 42, mars 1981, 21pp.  (also
excellent.  Translated to English.)

Robert Pool, "Can you Help the Mets by Watching on TV?," _Science_, p.773, 19
May 1989, 2pp.

Faye Flam, "Quantum Cryptography's Only Certainty: Secrecy," p. 858, _Science_,
Vol. 253.

R. Pool, "Quantum Pot Watching," p. 888, _Science_, Vol. 246.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

(The last three are brief articles).  In a nutshell, EPR says that when you link
two systems (well, particles) and you observe a fquantum effect in one, the
other particle, no matter where it is, will have the same effect if you choose
to observe it.  The original EPR thought experiment was offered as an argument
against quantum theory, because the implications were too bizarre.  It has.
however, been proved to be true, anyway.  For instance, an emitter gives off
two photons, and spin is measured along one direction, then we know what the
same measurement will be for the other photon, no matter how far away it
is when and if it is measured.  They acannot carry this information with them
when they leave the emitter; this is easily proven impossible; it has a spin
only when it is measured (odd statement?  read about quantum mechanics! I
won't argue it, it is true, even though it violates common sense in the
macroscopic world).  What happens is that information is passed from the meas-
ured particle to the unmeasured one instantly, faster than light.  Sorry, but
it is true; it can be used to pass information to distant points.  Get the
articles and read them.  Or, get a physicist to explain it to you!

If codes can be passed this way, perhaps teleoperation could be also done this
way (teleoperation is operating something at a distance).

But, it is WRONG to assert that NOTHING CAN EXCEED THE SPEED OF LIGHT!

                    Cordially, Jim Hawtree
Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!news.nd.edu!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!mace.cc.purdue.edu!lycaon
From: [e-mail] (Gerald Hough)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.religion.kibology,alt.sex,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: La, la, la...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Mar 92 01:07:27 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Followup-To: alt.postmodern
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
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>In article [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) writes:
>>In article [e-mail] (Mikel Bancroft CG) writes:
>>>In article [e-mail] (PIOTR CEZARY  PROSZYNSKI) writes:
>>>>In article [e-mail] (Po Shan Cheah) writes:
>>>>>In article [e-mail] (Russ Taylor) writes:
>>>>>>In article [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) writes:
>>>>>>>In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>>>>>>>>In article [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) writes...
>>>>>>>>>In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>>>>>>>>>>In article [e-mail] (Daniel Dise) said...
>>>>>>>>>>%In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>>>>>>>>>>%>In article [e-mail] (Michael Wasylik) writes...
>>>>>>>>>>%>>In article [e-mail] (David Gundlach) writes:
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>In article [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) said...
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%In article <[e-mail]> writes...
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>In article [e-mail] (Tom Hamill) says:
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>In article [e-mail] (Paul D Evans) writes:
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>In article [e-mail] (Chris Colby) writes:
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>In article [e-mail](Lawrence C. Foard)
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>In article [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>>  GEE, I'M SURE GLAD THAT .SIGNATURE VIRUSES ARE PASSE.
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>They will just mutate to get around it!
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>>Evolution is god!
i>>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>>Sanitation is fraud:
>>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>>Sandinistas ate Maude.
>>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>Santa Claus baits God.
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>>Satan Claws Bates Dog!  Film At Eleven!
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>>Satin draws mates bod.
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%>I sat in Ward's tame knob.
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>%I set a weird time bomb.
>>>>>>>>>>%>>>I shed a weird tie, Bob...
>>>>>>>>>>%>>I shot a wet teen babe.
>>>>>>>>>>%>Izod's a wasp trend, Biff.
>>>>>>>>>>%I drove off a west end cliff
>>>>>>>>>>I rode to arrest a lift.
>>>>>>>>>Electrodes tie my wrists.
>>>>>>>>Erode the Mai Tai wisps.
>>>>>>>Erotic in tiny sips.
>>>>>>Exotic Women in slips!
>>>>>Eclectic cows without lips.
>>>>Electric eels at my heels.
>>>Drunken seals slip on peels.
>>Strumpet's deals on slippery meals.
>Redesigning the wheel with zeal.
Realizing a feel for eels.


--

_____________________________________________________________________
| Gerald E. Hough II        |Collects:KaTeBushSistersOfMErcyCure|
| Wolf Park researcher        |ClannadKitaroNikKershawDuaneEddyELO|
| Battle Ground, IN        |Likes:RushTheWomblesDuaneEddyChurch|
|>>Insanity is time-consuming<< |UltimateSexRenNStimpyWolvesNYC-n-LA|
=====================================================================



How does one get around the "more old text than new text" ploy?????




Without going...




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 geuirngeiu nslg  s jkhsgiu nxv  gr  hoid  oiso doi s  g oroi vo sg iro
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oeorkgo o rogoewro  sdo godrot o5jis g ioe5o ovsm xfl mg,md;lksmdlkv
sgmosrims lv ijrth oijs ;lkgv so;itnr h;lskn ;fd o;isgltk s;kldhg diofyg...
Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!bronze!venus.iucf.indiana.edu!graham
From: [e-mail] (JIM GRAHAM)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Mar 92 04:04:01 GMT
References: <=[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Distribution: na
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes...
>In article <[e-mail]>,
>>
>> On the other hand, E.T.s with technology advanced enough to get in totally
>> undetected (consider the number of people world-wide searching for new
>> comets), they would probably have seen so much of the universe as to be
>> completely uninterested in us.
>>
>> Either way, it doesn't look good for UFOs.  I can see some flaws in this
>> argument, but on the whole I find it so compelling that I don't believe
>> in UFOs, even though I once saw one (i.e. unexplained sighting that didn't
>> look like it could possibly be anything normal).

Wait a minute!  You find _your own_ rationale that "they would probably have
seen so much of the universe as to be completely uninterested..." more
"compelling" than your own "unexplained sighting"?

I don't understand this.  Are you saying that you rely more on your theories
rather than what you _see_?

If so, let me ask you a hypothetical question....

Let's suppose a "ufo" lands on the White House lawn (a good, overused
scenario):-).

Now, what you're implying above, is that even though you might _see_ this,
you will still refuse to believe it is real, because _you_ believe that
they "would probably have seen so much of the universe as to be completely
uninterested..".


Jim Graham

        -> ->Disclaimer: I do not speak for my company. <- <-
                          Neither do they speak for me.
 ______________________________________________________________________
| Internet: [e-mail]                              |
|           dolmen![e-mail]                        |
| BBS:      The PORTAL DOLMEN BBS/ParaNet ALPHA-GAMMA (sm) (9:1012/13) |
|            [phone], 24hrs.                                    |
|______________________________________________________________________|
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!yale.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!watserv1!watdragon!watyew!jdnicoll
From: [e-mail] (James Davis Nicoll)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Mar 92 04:51:23 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Anthony E Bible) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James Davis Nicoll) writes:
>>
>>    This is misleading, because newtonian calculations diverge from
>>observations as you approach C. A year will get you to .78 C, where the
>>dilation is something like 0.63. Shorter, but it still takes 4.6 years to get
>>to Alpha Centauri and about 6.4 years to cross the average distance between
>>stars in this neighborhood.
>>
>>    Even 1 gee constant acceleration takes 3.5 years to get to AC.
>>
>
>    Hmmmm.  Are these times cast in spaceship reference or the reference
>of an external observer?  I guess I'd like to know how you arrived at them.  My
>(admittedly poor) understanding of near-light speed is that the space-ship time
>would run so slowly compared to external time that the enroute elapsed time
>would appear negligible to the travelers.  That would leave only the time to
>get up to and down from light-speed.

    It's all ship time. Lesee, the equation I used was:

    t = 2Ccosh(1+da/C**2) C = speed of light
                      d = distance travelled
                  a = acceleration.

    I *think*. I've been doing this long enough that given the
numbers, I run through the eqn without  being aware of what I doing :(.

    Max velocity is something like:

    V = (1-((1+da/C**2)**(-2)))**(1/2)

    Yes, if you accelerate close to C and slow down again, you will
have measured the interval as smaller than an observer who didn't
delta his vee. Because it takes time to reach relativistic velocities,
the difference in intervals is not very big for trips with small
acceleration and/or distances (The AC round trip would be 7 years for
the ship and 12 for people on Earth, only 5 years different. To the
galactic center and back is ~21 years measured by the ship and 64,000
years as measured on Earth). To get really dramatic differences you need
high accelerations or large distances.

    100gs to AC is 86 days both ways and about nine years,
depending on whether you were on the ship or not. 100 gs will
turn you to jelly, and the total delta vee is absurd, of course.

                            James Nicoll
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!destroyer!fmsrl7!ukma!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Ufos To Be Discussed On Larry King
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Mar 92 03:21:00 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
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 >         A great show indeed the author of the book is David Jacobs PHD
 > from Temple.  The book is ten years worth of research and interviews
 > with abductees.
 > The name of the book is Secret Life.  If anyone has read please let us
 > know what you think of it.

Just for information, ParaNet has an abduction conference available on a list
server which is hosted by Dr. Jacobs.  If you wish to get it, send email to me
at [e-mail].  I will get anyone on that list that wishes to
subscribe to it.  We also have a list server which has our daily UFO traffic
from within our network.

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!fnal.fnal.gov!raph
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Abducted while driving?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Mar 92 13:30:04 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4g=[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (The Daily Lose)
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
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In article <4g=[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
 writes:
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>>>
>>Over the past four years I have run into several people who have had
>>abduction experiences.  I had been sure previously that such experiences were
>>not genuine
>>
>>What is *not* normal, is to 1) see something extremely peculiar (e.g. a
>>glowing UFO by the road, or other anomaly); 2) extended surrealistic
>>episodes, such as having the brake, gas pedal and steering wheel stop
>>responding to you, and the car continue at a very slow speed for many minutes
>>or even miles;  3) extreme disorientation or shock afterwards which is
>>apparent to others;  4) nightmares and dreams and perhaps sleeping disorders
>>afterwards; 5) extreme reluctance or embarrassment or emotional turmoil in
>>recalling, relating or dealing with the incident.  These indicate a traumatic
>>incident.
>>
>>Did any of these happen to you, other than the memory lapse?
>>
>
> This is what is called "leading the witness." The subject begins remembering
> very, very hard, and by golly, just maybe, Number 3 (or Number 5 or
> whatever) *DID* happen to me!! NOW I can remember it!
*sigh*
"Leading the witness"?
I have heard that expression used in two contexts.  In one context, it was
used to imply that some hypnotist was "planting" suggestions in the subject
under hypnosis.  I DO assume that the person reading this was NOT in a deep
and suggestible hypnotic state at the time he was reading my posting: if he
was and accidentally turned on the TV, do you think that he would have bought
everything that was advertised??  ;-)  ;-) (I hope everyone is not like "Opus"
from the comic strip "Bloom County"!)  No, I am just asking for more info.

The other context during which "Leading the witness" is used is during
criminal trials.  By your comments I would have to conclude that you would
discredit every rape victim if a doctor, policeman or lawyer questioned the
witness about the attack!  I am sure that some victims of a clear, violent
attack might embellish the event a little; some very few people (who would be
extremely neurotic and imbalanced) might even make up the whole thing, but
this is hardly the case for the average person.  The average gang-rape victim
may mistakenly believe that there were eight rapists instead of six, or that
the attack lasted for two hours instead of an hour and a quarter; but "leading
the witness" is only valid about more *minor* aspects such as motive, the
color of clothes, type of car, something someone said, etc.  It still remains
that the rape victim was treated in a violent, non-consentual, undignified way
that resulted in severe repeated traumas, EVEN IF SOMEONE WAS LEADING THE
WITNESS ABOUT SOME DETAILS.  You cannot "lead a witness" who was *not* raped
and traumatized into believing that they were severely raped.  Come on now.


There are significant similarities between abduction and rape.  Both are
traumatic.  We are not talking about looking out a window here, and seeing
something unusual for a minute or two!  We are talking in both incidences
about events that are extreme, nonconsentual, and that have an extreme
psychological impact.  **Both usually do not like to freely blab out the
details to friends and acquaintances and strangers.**  Both are very uneasy
about the event.  Both often suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder.
Often victims of both decide to tell no one, at least for long periods of
time; and sometimes seek professional help to overcome the effects of the
trauma; and usually suffer some behavioral change, at least temporarily.  This
is not the result of a mere fantasy--somthing happened!  The experience may
vary, of course from one person to the next.  Some people may lie, exagerate;
I do not anymore, personally, feel that every abduction case is a fabrication.
I used to, until I met a few abductees.

> And here, right before our eyes, another "confirmation" of UFO
> abductions is being conjured up into existence, whether it happened
> or not. The *proper* way to proceed in such a situation is to
> get the subject to tell you all he can, WITHOUT suggesting to him
> in any way the kind of responses you are expecting. Because
> this is difficult, it probably seldom, if ever, happens.
>
> And now you know why so many "UFO abductees" tell similar stories.

Robert, you are quite right in some cases.  Unfortunately, I have seen
very convincing evidence that you are wrong in several cases!

>
> --
>
>         Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]
>
>  Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!
>
>                "The facts can only take you so far in this case.",
>       - Oliver Stone, discussing "JFK" on CBS-TV's "48 Hours", Feb. 5, 1992

Jim Hawtree - also a hardnosed skeptic, but one who has come across several
incidents that cannot be written off.  <[e-mail]>
Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!att!fang!tarpit!tous!bilver!dona
From: [e-mail] (Don Allen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Talmud as Given by Judas Iscariot
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Mar 92 06:41:30 GMT
References: <![e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Lines: 29

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Don Allen) writes:
>>In article <![e-mail]> [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
>>>>
>>>Eduard "Billy" Meier of Switzerland is the perpetrator of the notorious
>>>"UFOs from the Pleiades" hoax.
>


Actually I was only teasing you but you seem to be a good sport about
it.. :-)

I was in the library today and was flipping through the "Authors in Print"
reference books and noted that the only listing that the book had on you
was your "UFO Verdict - Examining the Evidence" book that was in 1986. Have
you written any more on the subject of UFO's since then?

I put your book on the inter-library loan program and should be getting it
in the mail in a few weeks. I'll be on the lookout for your "new" book
exposing Noam Chomsky :^_)

Don


--
-* Don Allen *-               // Only   | Are you ready for SETI?
Internet: [e-mail]  \X/ Amiga   | Oct 12,1992 - ET comes to NM
UUCP: .........uunet!peora!bilver!dona  | The *real* "October Surprise"
Psi-Tech and alien brain-wave research -- Whats going on at Los Alamos?
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!helios.physics.utoronto.ca!grindley
From: [e-mail] (Robin Grindley)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Mar 92 15:27:22 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Administrator)
Organization: University of Toronto Physics/Astronomy/CITA
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>,
>> [e-mail] (David Plumpton) writes:
>
>It is true that we do not know how to accelerate matter faster than c.  But,
>it is not true that *nothing* can travel faster than c.  Information can.
>
>The EPR paradox (for Einstein, Rosen and Podolsky) from 1935 was an argument
> <deleted>


It is true that "something" can travel faster than c, in this case the
collapse of the quantum wave function, but it is NOT true that information
can be transmitted using this. The point is that a measurement has a
completely random and unpredictable outcome in quantum mechanics. We know
beforehand the PROBABILITY of the given outcomes, but until we make the
measurement we have NO IDEA which one we will actually get. With the coupled
photons, observer A does not know what he/she will get. But once the spin
is measured, A knows what B's measurement is (instantaneously), and if B
chooses to measure also, then B will know what A's measurement was. But to
transfer information (knowledge), you have to be able to SET the outcome
on the other end. Imagine wanting to send whether a bit is 0 or 1. A wants
to send a 1. Since A has no control over the measured spin, A cannot assign
1 to up, and 0 to down a priori, because it is beyond A's control. No info
this way.

You might then try to get around it by setting up some kind of synchronization
between A and B. (Which has to be done using light signals, but this is just
a startup overhead.) Every x seconds, A will either measure and collapse the
wavefunction (1) or not measure (0). But even if A collapses, there is no
way for B to know it was A collapsing the wavefunction, or whether B
collapsed it by checking to see if A collapsed it! (Clear as mud, eh?)
In any case, you never know who actually did the collapsing, all you know is
given your measurement, the other person's had to be such and such.




--
  The opinions expressed above are fictional. Any resemblance betweens these
  opinions and other opinions living or dead is purely coincidental.

            robin [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!kingpol!titan.kingston.ac.uk!is_b376
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Wierd
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Mar 92 16:23:21 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (Network News)
Organization: Kingston Polytechnic
Lines: 3
Nntp-Posting-Host: tethys

This has got to be the wierdest group I have ever seen..

Is everybody mad or am I not the only sane one???
Path: ns-mx!uunet!sun-barr!lll-winken!overload.lbl.gov!dog.ee.lbl.gov!csa2.lbl.gov!sichase
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT I CHASE)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Mar 92 18:27:20 GMT
References: <=[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Distribution: na
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes...
>
>It is true that we do not know how to accelerate matter faster than c.  But,
>it is not true that *nothing* can travel faster than c.  Information can.
>
>The EPR paradox (for Einstein, Rosen and Podolsky) from 1935 was an argument
>that quantum mechanics predicts that it is possible to transfer information
>faster than c.  (BTW, Einstein did not care for the implications: he called
>it "spooky action at a distance.")   Recently experiments have shown that that
>is indeed the case.  Although we do not know how to move matter instantly
>over distances, we can demonstrate that we can transfer information about spin
>properties over distances faster than c.
>

Is this guy really at Fermilab? Is he the janitor?  Has he just completely
missed the point of the EPR experiments (not a paradox, thank you)?  Or is he
just yanking my chain? I'm afraid to even dignify his drivel with a response,
but he sounds so slick that I feel the need to warn some unsuspecting reader
of his post that this guy doesn't know the first thing about which he is
claiming to speak.

For the record:

(1) There is no, No, NO experimental evidence for faster than light
communication of information under any circumstance.

(2) There is no paradox associated with the EPR experiments when viewed in the
light of quantum field theory.  It does not conflict with GR or anything else
we know about.  It may have been "spooky" to Einstein.  So what?

(3) I encourage brave readers to actually read the articles this guy quoted.
You will find no support for his quackery.

Have a nice day.

-Scott
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!mrccrc!crc.ac.uk!sgamble
From: [e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Abducted while driving?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Mar 92 18:11:37 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4g=[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293)
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In article <4g=[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
>  [Included post from [e-mail] deleted]
>
> This is what is called "leading the witness." The subject begins remembering
> very, very hard, and by golly, just maybe, Number 3 (or Number 5 or
> whatever) *DID* happen to me!! NOW I can remember it!
>
> And here, right before our eyes, another "confirmation" of UFO
> abductions is being conjured up into existence, whether it happened
> or not. The *proper* way to proceed in such a situation is to
> get the subject to tell you all he can, WITHOUT suggesting to him
> in any way the kind of responses you are expecting. Because
> this is difficult, it probably seldom, if ever, happens.
>
> And now you know why so many "UFO abductees" tell similar stories.
>
>         Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

Oh dear, I think I have found something of Roberts that I agree with
(but I am sure I will be feeling better soon! :) :) )

Great care needs to be taken in handling witnesses to anything. This is
particular important with sensitive cases such as abductions.

Some of the abductees and close encounter witnesses I have spoken to are
very shaken by their experience and seem very vunerable. If the UFO
investigator comes along as a friend, somebody they can trust, I
believe it would be very easy to influence them. One witness springs
immediately to mind. He had what Hynek would call a Close Encounter of the
First Kind. When he spoke to the original investigator, it was several
months after reading one of George Adamski's books. So what he had seen
was definately an extra-terrestrial spacecraft. A couple of years later
he approached John Spencer at a lecture to tell John about his report.
John had written a book called Perspectives, which is best summarised as
at least some abductions are internally generated by the witness. This witness
had read the book and related the story as if it were one of these imaginary
saucers. But when he spoke later to the original investigator the report was
back to the Adamski style flying saucer.

Obviously not all cases of witness compliance are this blatent, however there
is evidence that witnesses, probably sub-conciously, will bend their story
to correspond with the beliefs of the investigator. This may not occur in all
cases and may occur to a varing degree. If it is the first time you have met the
witness how do you know?

Spencer and Bertil Kuhlemann of Sweden both promote actively what they call
witness lead investigation. Their technique seems to be to put down a tape
recorder then request "please tell me about your experience" without even
qualifying it with UFO experience/abduction. The prompts they use are very
minimal "tell me more", "could you just repeat that so I have it clear in my mind"
and "when was this" seem to be about all they use. The parting shot they use
is very open ended "Is there anything you would like to add" which can be an
opening to well yes they have had other abduction experiences or there have been
other paranormal events.

Steve.

--
(Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!)
Steve Gamble, Computing Services,
Clinical Research Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK.
Phone: [phone]  JANET: [e-mail] INTERNET: [e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Talmud as Given by Judas Iscariot
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Mar 92 17:55:54 GMT
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Don Allen) writes:
>
>Actually I was only teasing you but you seem to be a good sport about
>it.. :-)
>
>I was in the library today and was flipping through the "Authors in Print"
>reference books and noted that the only listing that the book had on you
>was your "UFO Verdict - Examining the Evidence" book that was in 1986. Have
>you written any more on the subject of UFO's since then?
>
  Well, I don't have any more books specifically on UFOs. Maybe someday.
  In brief here's what I have written thus far. I generally
  put something in each book that is greatly offensive to *somebody*!

#1 "The UFO Verdict", which was found to be offensive by MUFON,
   and others who proclaim that "space aliens are really real!".

#2 "Resentment Against Achievement", which was offensive to all
   who promote a Procrustean socialist vision,

#3 "The Making of the Messiah", which (especially because it
   forthrightly discusses the delicate matter of the Immaculate
   Fornication) is offensive to all True Believers.

   All three are published by Prometheus Books, Buffalo, NY (800-421-0351).

"Resentment Against Achievement" doesn't *exactly* refute Noan Chomsky
(or even mention him!), but it attempts to explain what makes guys
like him tick.


My latest book, "The Making of the Messiah", does to Christianity what
Salman Rushdie did to Islam:



                                   Robert Sheaffer
                                   Box 10441
                                   San Jose, CA 95157

                    The Making of the Messiah

              New Book Confronts Christianity with
                its Greatest Challenge in Decades

A   new   book  published in November,  1991   Prometheus   Books
confronts  Christianity  with  its greatest challenge in  many  a
year. "The Making of the Messiah" by Robert Sheaffer differs from
conventional  works  of Freethinkers by  suggesting  a  radically
different   picture  of  the  rise  of  Christianity.   The  book
describes,  to use Nietzsche's phrase, "The Birth of Christianity
from  the Spirit of Resentment." It tells why Christianity  could
only  develop as it did,  emerging from the envious anger of  the
lower classes.  It shows how Christian writers altered historical
facts to make the new religion "sell" better among those seething
with  resentment against Roman power and wealth.   By looking  at
the  chronological evolution of Christian writings and  doctrine,
exactly  as  skeptics investigate contemporary  accounts  of  UFO
abductions or psychic wonders,  it is possible to infer the kinds
of objections that the infant Church must have been struggling to
meet,  and  from these long-suppressed objections deduce probable
historical fact.  This new perspective radically impacts Biblical
criticism,  in  a  manner that Humanists  and  Freethinkers  will
wholeheartedly applaud.

"The  Making of the Messiah" presents a compelling argument  that
Jesus  was never "crucified" by the Romans,  or anyone else.  The
familiar  Gospel  account of Jesus' death is termed  the  "cruci-
fiction story." Biblical scholars generally acknowledge that  the
confusing  and contradictory Gospel accounts of Jesus' two trials
make absolutely no sense from the perspective of either Roman  or
Jewish law.  Resolving this dilemma, the book presents compelling
evidence  that  Jesus  was indeed condemned by the  Sanhedrin  as
stated in Mark 14:64, stoned to death, and hanged in a tree until
sundown:  the  inescapable  penalty  under  the  Mosaic  law  for
blasphemers  and heretics.  All of the ancient  Rabbinical  texts
mentioning  Jesus' death are totally consistent in recalling that
he  was  "slain  and  hanged in a tree." There  are  even  a  few
passages  remaining  in  the oldest books of  the  New  Testament
proclaiming Jesus to have been slain and "hanged in a tree" - for
example,  Acts  5:30 and Galatians 3:13.  These passages are  NOT
metaphor:  they describe the punishment Jesus MUST have  suffered
if found guilty of the charges he faced!  (See Deuteronomy 13:10;
21:22.)  How did the cruci-fiction story arise?  Several  decades
after Jesus' execution,  when the infant Church sought to recruit
converts among the Gentiles,  the tale of a Jewish prophet "slain
and  hanged  in a tree" probably failed to excite or inflame  the
listener.   But  when  the  story  was  changed  to  have   Jesus
"crucified"  by  the Romans,  the tale electrified the  resentful
throughout the vast Empire.

Another  subject  covered  in great  detail  is  Jesus'  supposed
"Virgin Birth." In recent years even many liberal Christians have
been willing to question this highly-dubious claim.  They quietly
assume that Jesus must have been the natural son of Joseph.  What
they  do not seem to realize is that it is absolutely clear  (see
Matthew 1:19) that Joseph knew the child was not his, and that he
believed  Mary  to  be guilty of  adultery.  This  is  abundantly
confirmed by a number of other ancient texts,  both Christian and
Jewish.  Therefore,  unless  Mary's pregnancy is of  supernatural
origin,   she  is  an  adulteress.  Tracing  the  development  of
Christianity's  various  accounts of Jesus'  origin,  it  becomes
obvious that the "Virgin Birth" fable, which was not taught until
nearly  a century after Jesus was born,  was invented as a "cover
story" to mask the shameful reality of Jesus' illegitimate birth.
The  gospels of Mark and John say nothing whatever  about  Jesus'
birth;  the  authors of those gospels must have assumed that  the
reader  already knew of Jesus' illegitimacy,  which intrudes upon
the  text in several places.  The genealogies of Jesus  given  in
Matthew and Luke differ because the former was obviously compiled
by  someone  hostile to the new religion.  It lists among  Jesus'
ancestors  some  of  the most notorious  disinherited  kings  and
fallen women of the Davidic line.  The problem was fixed in Luke,
whose genealogy contains only respectable names.  Because bastard
children were treated extremely harshly under the Mosaic law,  it
is  not surprising that Jesus chafed at the restrictions The  Law
placed upon him,  claiming the inspiration of a "higher law" from
above.  Jesus' experience of being "despised and rejected"  owing
to  an  accident  of  birth  shaped  the  very  fabric  of  early
Christianity,  and drew together under that religion's banner all
who chafed at living under The Law.

What  set  Jesus  apart from other Messianic pretenders  was  the
claim  that  he  arose from the dead.  The  evidence  offered  in
support  of  this  claim is scrutinized  in  detail.  When  these
accounts are examined in chronological order of  composition,  in
light  of long-suppressed Roman-era criticisms,  a clear  pattern
emerges.  The  earliest accounts make the least-convincing claims
of  an actual,  physical resurrection.  Paul sees a vision  of  a
risen  Jesus,  which is worthless as "evidence" for anything.  As
time progresses, Christianity's claims that people had sighted an
actual,  physical risen Jesus become more definite.  Many ancient
manuscripts of the earliest gospel,  Mark,  contain absolutely no
sightings of a risen Jesus, whose resurrection is merely inferred
because  his body was not where it had been left.  Mark  16:9-20,
which  describes  such sightings,  was written  years  later,  to
answer  objections  that  nobody actually  SAW  Jesus  after  his
supposed resurrection. The only reasonable conclusion to be drawn
is that the supposed resurrection never occurred.

Robert Sheaffer is the author of "Resentment Against Achievement"
(Prometheus,  1988).  Laissez  Faire Books hails it as "a  modern
classic," comparing it to the works of H.  L.  Mencken, Friedrich
Nietzsche,  and Ayn Rand.  Success Magazine writes that "the book
crackles with ideas that others have failed to perceive,  or have
been  too timid to express."  Sheaffer's first book was "The  UFO
Verdict" (Prometheus,  1981),  a highly-skeptical analysis of UFO
mania,  about  which Sky and Telescope magazine said,  "if you're
only  going to have one book on UFOs,  this is the one." He is  a
regular columnist for The Skeptical Inquirer.

     "The Making of the Messiah" is $19.95 (+$3 P&H).  It can  be
     ordered from Prometheus at 59 John Glenn Drive,  Amherst, NY
     14215, or call toll free 1-800-421-0351.)


--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

     "In the 1970's the world will undergo famines - hundreds of millions
     of people are going to starve to death in spite of any crash programs
     embarked upon now ... in 1985, when it is calculated [under the most
     optimistic scenario] that the major die-back will be over, ..."

                       Dr. Paul Ehrlich, "The Population Bomb," 1968
Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Abducted while driving?
Message-ID: <l-bjm0=[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Mar 92 18:11:27 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <4g=[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>*sigh*
>"Leading the witness"?
>I have heard that expression used in two contexts.  In one context, it was
>used to imply that some hypnotist was "planting" suggestions in the subject
>under hypnosis.  I DO assume that the person reading this was NOT in a deep
>and suggestible hypnotic state at the time he was reading my posting: if he
>
   Well, since "hypnosis" is mostly bullsh*t, anyway, it doesn't really
   matter. Read Dr. Robert Baker's book, "Some Call it Hypnosis"; there
   is no evidence of a separate and distinct 'hypnotic state', but
   people can be suceptible or suggestible at any time, if circumstances
   are right. By saying in essence, "these things (numbers 1 through 5)
   often happen to UFO abductees: did they happen to you?", you are
   planting in the subject's mind the suggestion that he should search
   his memory *very hard* for precisely these things. And if he
   manages to convince himself that any of them are true, he now knows
   (roughly speaking) what to report!

   I realize, of course, that this forum is *not* the right medium
   for anyone to conduct such queries, and that Jim was not attempting
   to formally do so. I point this out only to illustrate how
   easily a person's memories of an incident can become "contaminated"
   by extraneous data.

>The other context during which "Leading the witness" is used is during
>criminal trials.  By your comments I would have to conclude that you would
>discredit every rape victim if a doctor, policeman or lawyer questioned the
>witness about the attack!  I am sure that some victims of a clear, violent
>
   As a positive example of how to proceed,

   First, get the subject to fully state all memories (and get everything
   on tape).

   Don't say things like, "abductees are often fatigued, were you fatigued?".
   Instead, ask "how did you feel at the time?" If you get no useful reply,
   ask "what was your energy level at this time? High or low?"

   Get the point??!  :)




--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

     "In the 1970's the world will undergo famines - hundreds of millions
     of people are going to starve to death in spite of any crash programs
     embarked upon now ... in 1985, when it is calculated [under the most
     optimistic scenario] that the major die-back will be over, ..."

                       Dr. Paul Ehrlich, "The Population Bomb," 1968
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!news.umbc.edu!umbc4.umbc.edu!hannon
From: [e-mail] (Mr. Scott Hannon; PHYS (GRAD))
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Mar 92 20:35:09 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News posting account)
Distribution: na
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>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes...
>>
>>It is true that we do not know how to accelerate matter faster than c.  But,
>>it is not true that *nothing* can travel faster than c.  Information can.
[rest deleted]

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
[nasty bits deleted]
>
>(1) There is no, No, NO experimental evidence for faster than light
>communication of information under any circumstance.
>
>(2) There is no paradox associated with the EPR experiments when viewed in the
>light of quantum field theory.  It does not conflict with GR or anything else
>we know about.  It may have been "spooky" to Einstein.  So what?
>
[deleted]

I'm certainly no expert in QM or the EPR experiment, but I think the person
who responded above was a bit too harsh. Sure the original poster was wrong
about the EPR experiment and the ability to transmit info faster than light,
but to give the impression that there is no paradox or nothing "spooky"
about QM is also somewhat wrong.

Last summer I read a book called _Quantum Reality_ by Nick Herbert, the
book being about what QM can tell us about the nature of "reality". The
book does not focus on just one theory/interpretation, but rather tries
to cover them all (Bohr, Einstein, Wheeler, etc...). The main conclusion
of the book is that no matter what interpretation a person might choose,
they must accept at least one bizarre (well, bizarre to everyone who
doesn't accept that interpretation :-) condition (one example being there
is no such thing as local causality...everything involves "spooky action
at a distance"; other interpretations lead to different, but similarly
unpleasant, conditions).

Actually, the book was more concerned with John Stewart Bell's inequality,
which is based upon the EPR experiment, than with the EPR experiment itself.
It is this inequality that has, so far, lead to at least one unpleasantness
for every interpretation of reality based on QM. Quite an interesting read.

I hope I have not offended either poster; I just wanted to say that MANY
physicists who go beyond "shut up and do the math" will find at least some
aspect of QM "spooky".

Scott Hannon.
--
Scott Hannon, Thu Mar 26 1992 ([e-mail])
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From: [e-mail] (Leping N Zha)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Abducted while driving?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Mar 92 23:20:30 GMT
References: <4g=[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <l-bjm0=[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Lines: 4


Did anyone experienced such missing time during driving smelled sulphur
in the air after it happened (as my whole family did two years ago
on the DC-Baltimore expressway)?
Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!deakin.OZ.AU!cs.uow.edu.au!cc.uow.edu.au!plumpton
From: [e-mail] (David Plumpton)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Mar 92 22:56:33 GMT
References: <=[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (david james plumpton)
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[e-mail] writes:
>it is not true that *nothing* can travel faster than c.  Information can.

>The EPR paradox (for Einstein, Rosen and Podolsky) from 1935 was an argument
>that quantum mechanics predicts that it is possible to transfer information
>faster than c.  (BTW, Einstein did not care for the implications: he called
>it "spooky action at a distance.")   Recently experiments have shown that that
>is indeed the case.  Although we do not know how to move matter instantly
>over distances, we can demonstrate that we can transfer information about spin
>properties over distances faster than c.

Various EPR stuff omitted

>But, it is WRONG to assert that NOTHING CAN EXCEED THE SPEED OF LIGHT!
>                    Cordially, Jim Hawtree

I've seen the EPR stuff before--yes it's a fact, but every time I've ever
heard about it, the "spooky action at a distance" cannot be used to transmit
information.  There's some nasty catch that explicitly prevents this from
happening.  It was something to do with introducing a random number into
the spin (perhaps the state of the original spin???)

I'm not attempting to assert that nothing can exceed the speed of light.
I'm asserting that anything that could wouldn't be interested in the likes
of you and me.
--
/------------------------------\ /-------------------------------\
I       David Plumpton          I     There is a holy trinity:    |
I [e-mail] I N Tesla, R Feynman and C Sagan  |
\------------------------------/ \-------------------------------/
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!mucs!p4.cs.man.ac.uk!parryh
From: [e-mail] (Howell Parry)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: HUGE SAUSAGE!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Mar 92 19:40:52 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Lines: 25

I was driving home from uni last year, when suddenly, out of the sky
came a huge sausage!!!
It landed in front of my car, and forced me to stop.
Some small maggot-like creatures emerged from the sausage, and grabbed me
out of the car.
They took me inside the sausage. It was all dark and smelled of rotting meat.
There was a whirring sound, and suddenly, the sausage opened up and I was on
an alien planet, where all the inhabitants were sausages!
They all wobbled around, and had big smiles on their faces.....
They took me to a hut, and gave me a bowl of cornflakes.
Suddenly, there was another whirring sound, and before I knew it, I was parked
in my car at the side of the road, back on Earth.

Can anyone explain this? Has anyone else had a similar experience?
Are there really sausages in space?

-Howell Parry.

E-mail: [e-mail].p4

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
! Howell Parry. 2nd yr Computer Science and Mathematics,          !
!                                    Manchester Uni, Uk           !
! E-mail:    [e-mail].p4                               !
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From: [e-mail] (Howell Parry)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.stupidity,talk.bizarre
Subject: HUGE SAUSAGE!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Mar 92 19:56:07 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Lines: 25
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5093 alt.stupidity:4328 talk.bizarre:53399

I was driving home from uni last year, when suddenly, out of the sky
came a huge sausage!!!
It landed in front of my car, and forced me to stop.
Some small maggot-like creatures emerged from the sausage, and grabbed me
out of the car.
They took me inside the sausage. It was all dark and smelled of rotting meat.
There was a whirring sound, and suddenly, the sausage opened up and I was on
an alien planet, where all the inhabitants were sausages!
They all wobbled around, and had big smiles on their faces.....
They took me to a hut, and gave me a bowl of cornflakes.
Suddenly, there was another whirring sound, and before I knew it, I was parked
in my car at the side of the road, back on Earth.

Can anyone explain this? Has anyone else had a similar experience?
Are there really sausages in space?

-Howell Parry.

E-mail: [e-mail].p4

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
! Howell Parry. 2nd yr Comp Sci & Maths, Manchester Uni, Uk       !
! E-mail:    [e-mail].p4                               !
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Path: ns-mx!uunet!world!kibo
From: [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: HUGE SAUSAGE!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Mar 92 01:31:35 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: A room filled with typography (in Boston's Back Bay)
Lines: 13
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5094 alt.religion.kibology:1330

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Howell Parry) writes:
>They took me inside the sausage. It was all dark and smelled of rotting meat.
>There was a whirring sound, and suddenly, the sausage opened up and I was on
>an alien planet, where all the inhabitants were sausages!

I'd like to point out that I have no reason to suspect that I may
be related to Howell.


--
..................    ...................................................
James "Kibo" Parry    271 Dartmouth St #3D, Boston MA 02116 [phone]
[e-mail]    Independent graphic designer and typeface designer.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!draco!sys6626!inqmind!pegasis
From: [e-mail] (John)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFOs to be discussed on Larry King
Keywords: sightings,ufo
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Mar 92 20:55:34 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Inquiring Mind  1 204 488-1607
Lines: 19

[e-mail] (Mike Perron) writes:

>
>     While on this topic, it brings to mind a sighting I had which I hope
> someone can give an explanation for.  It was 1:30am on top of a local hilltop
> when looking intensely up at the clear sky I noticed single lighted or star
> like objects at high altitude moving at a steady speed. Much like a jet looks
> from the ground.  The problem is that from my view a span of about 5 miles, t
> sky was full of these (objects). I estimated more than 1000 to 2000 points of
> light. I didn't hear much of anything but was amazed. I left quickly to tel-


What you could have been expierencing was a meteor(sp?) shower
granted it would have to have been a large one, but it is possable.

Pegasis

[e-mail]
The Inquiring Mind BBS, Winnipeg, Manitoba  204 488-1607
Path: ns-mx!uunet!sun-barr!lll-winken!iggy.GW.Vitalink.COM!widener!beyonet!beyo
From: [e-mail] (Steve Urich)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: HUGE SAUSAGE!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Mar 92 03:02:24 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Beyonet Network
Lines: 13


    You've been playing too much `Hide the Sausage' with yourself. :-)


--
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Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!sumax!ole!ssc!fylz!eskimo!ice
From: [e-mail] (Greg Toth)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.pro-wrestling,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: UW theory
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Mar 92 19:10:23 GMT
Organization: <<< ESKIMO NORTH (206)-FOR-EVER >>>
Lines: 10
Xref: ns-mx rec.sport.pro-wrestling:16333 alt.alien.visitors:5097


My theory is that the Ultimate Warrior was kidnaped by aliens from
outter space and replaced by a robot while they attempted to clone
an army of UWs with which to destroy the universe. Steve DiSalvo,
who ais a government agent discovered this plot and was able to
destroy the robot and convince Vince to enter negotiations for the
return of the original UW. This explains the disapearance of the
original UW, the subsequent appearance of someone who did not quite
look like him, the subsequent disapearance of this person (or robot)
and the identidy of the mysterious Steve DiSalvo.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!convex!linac!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2
From: [e-mail] (barry.o.olson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: HUGE SAUSAGE!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Mar 92 05:04:01 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: AT&T
Lines: 16

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Howell Parry) writes:
> I was driving home from uni last year, when suddenly, out of the sky
> came a huge sausage!!!

[...]
>
> Can anyone explain this? Has anyone else had a similar experience?
> Are there really sausages in space?
>
Well, I was driving down the highway in upper Wisconsin one night
and I had actually lost track of time, and there was a strong odor
of methane gas in the vehicle. I stopped the car and tried to make
a dash away from it, but slipped over several beer cans on the
floor and fell out. I then noticed a scrape on my head that hadn't
been there before. I was never able to find out what happened.
But no, I never heard of a flying sausage craft, or sausage people.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!world!kibo
From: [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: HUGE SAUSAGE!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Mar 92 06:56:20 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: A room filled with typography (in Boston's Back Bay)
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (The Ahkond of Swat) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>I'd like to point out that I have no reason to suspect that I may
>>be related to Howell.
>
>What about Lovey?  Now that I think of it, if you're related to any
>of those castaways, it's probably Gilligan.

Actually, I played The Professor.  One day I invented this ersatz
Minoxodil made from coconuts using my nuclear accelerator (made from
bamboo and seaweed) but Gilligan goofed it up and when we smeared it on
the Cap'n it turned him into Cap'n Crunch and he went around coating
everything with sugar.

Also, I played Martin Landau in "The Harlem Globetrotters on Gilligan's
Island", in which they played basketball against robots for the fate of
the world.
                            -- K.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!news
From: [e-mail] (Donald Yett)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Wierd
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Mar 92 08:53:06 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Donald Yett)
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>This has got to be the wierdest group I have ever seen..
>
>Is everybody mad or am I not the only sane one???


Sanity, WHAT A CONCEPT!!   :)

I live outside of the asylum...
        -Wonko the Sane
--
+-------------------------+----------------------------------------------------
| [e-mail]  | I will not be pushed, stamped, filed, indexed,
|   Just my opinions!     | briefed, debriefed, or numbered! - #6, The Prisoner
+-------------------------+----------------------------------------------------
Path: ns-mx!uunet!van-bc!ubc-cs!mprgate.mpr.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!spani
From: [e-mail] (Leonard Spani)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Abducted while driving?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Mar 92 00:56:41 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <4g=[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <l-bjm0=[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Lines: 27

In article <l-bjm0=[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer) writes:

[...]
|>    Well, since "hypnosis" is mostly bullsh*t, anyway, it doesn't really
|>    matter. Read Dr. Robert Baker's book, "Some Call it Hypnosis"; there
|>    is no evidence of a separate and distinct 'hypnotic state', but
|>    people can be suceptible or suggestible at any time, if circumstances
|>    are right.
[...]


What year was "Some Call it Hypnosis" published?

I need to do some reading on hypnosis if I'm ever going to form an opinion
on it's use in abduction investigation. If anyone knows of any other (recent)
books about hynosis, could you post a list?


Thanks,
Leonard.


--
***********************************************************************
| Leonard E. Spani      |       //!?\\         | (disclaimer-p)       |
| [e-mail]  |       \\?!//         | t                    |
***********************************************************************
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From: [e-mail] (Thomas Kettenring)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Abducted while driving?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Mar 92 14:01:58 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4g=[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany
Lines: 10

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
[..]
> Jim Hawtree - also a hardnosed skeptic, but one who has come across several
> incidents that cannot be written off.  <[e-mail]>

Surely you mean: incidents that he couldn't find a way to write off.
--
-Caddy--(thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany)-----
The question of whether the electron is a wave or a particle
has a clear and definite answer:  No.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!caen!hellgate.utah.edu!dog.ee.lbl.gov!csa2.lbl.gov!sichase
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT I CHASE)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Mar 92 19:52:21 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Distribution: na
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
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News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Mr. Scott Hannon; PHYS (GRAD)) writes...
>>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes...
>>>
>>>It is true that we do not know how to accelerate matter faster than c.  But,
>>>it is not true that *nothing* can travel faster than c.  Information can.
>[rest deleted]
>
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>[nasty bits deleted]
>>
>>(1) There is no, No, NO experimental evidence for faster than light
>>communication of information under any circumstance.
>>
>>(2) There is no paradox associated with the EPR experiments when viewed in the
>>light of quantum field theory.  It does not conflict with GR or anything else
>>we know about.  It may have been "spooky" to Einstein.  So what?
>>
>[deleted]
>
>I'm certainly no expert in QM or the EPR experiment, but I think the person
>who responded above was a bit too harsh. Sure the original poster was wrong
>about the EPR experiment and the ability to transmit info faster than light,
>but to give the impression that there is no paradox or nothing "spooky"
>about QM is also somewhat wrong.
>[Stuff about a book deleted]
>I hope I have not offended either poster; I just wanted to say that MANY
>physicists who go beyond "shut up and do the math" will find at least some
>aspect of QM "spooky".
>

(I apologize in advance for the strength of the following statement.  But
my dander is really up this morning after I read my E-mail. -Scott)

I maintain that my statements are correct.  Lots of things are spooky.
Life is spooky.  Maybe some people find Quantum Field Theory spooky.  I don't.
I have studied it for many years, and understand it to my satisfaction (I don't
work in the field, and am not an Expert).

The important point is that just because someone with credentials says that
EPR is "spooky" doesn't provide a shred of proof that QM is wrong, or that
it will ultimately be proved wrong.

I am amazed at how many people have sent me E-mail complaining that I firmly
state that no, No, No experimental evidence which conflicts with Quantum
Mechanics.  People seem to think that this is some kind of closed-minded
approach to the subject.  Perhaps someone will supply a reference to such
an experiment?  I will humbly apologize, and then become famous for bringing
this shocking news to the physics community.

Scientists do not believe in Special Relativity and Quantum Mechanics, the two
foundations of modern physics, because most of the evidence suggests that they
are right.  They do so because ALL OF THE EVIDENCE SHOWS THAT THEY ARE RIGHT.
There exists NO evidence to contradict either theory.  That is why scientists
have developed such high confidence in them over the better part of a century.

Sure, it is conceivable that someone someday will find some experiment which
disagrees with one or the other.  But you must expect that if and when this
happens, it will be shown that the current theories are excellent
approximations to the better theory in most circumstances anyway, or else
they would never have done so well so far.

Final point: A "paradox" is a problem which seems to have two contradictory
interpretations.  Olber created a paradox when he realized that
(1) The universe is infinite
(2) All stars should have the same brightness/area regardless of distance
from us.
(3) The entire sky should be as bright as the sun, but
(4) It isn't.

What's the problem?  (1) Is wrong.  The Universe if finite in ago, and
rapidly expanding.

Is there a logical paradox with cosmology because of Olber's argument.  No.
He didn't know enough, so he got stuck.

The EPR experiment is more complicated to explain in only  a few words.  The
bottom line is that there is a completely consistent  way of looking at the
problem in the context of quantum field theory, and there is no logical problem
with any theory as the result of the EPR  experiment.  There is no paradox.
It requires accepting the collapse of an N-particle wavefunction in zero time.
But that's not so new.  It does't violate causality or allow faster than
light communication.  I'm sorry if that statement conflicts with what you have
heard from other sources.  If so, your other sources are wrong.  If you
don't believe me, get a physics textbook (not some popularization), and learn
about it yourself.

-Scott
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zephyr.ens.tek.com!uw-beaver!fluke!emery
From: [e-mail] (John Emery)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Mar 92 21:29:38 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
Lines: 30
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5104 alt.pagan:13843 alt.paranormal:4696 talk.religion.newage:9902

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (John
>Emery) writes...
>>in the heart of the instigator?  If there were peace in the hearts of
>>people, then we wouldn't have external problems.  There is something wrong
>
>    Not necessarily.  If we had Peace AND non-Peace in our hearts,
>then it would be possible for us to have external problems because
>the two are at odds with each other, and one must win out, even if
>only temporarily.  As long as it's the non-Peace side that is in
>control, we will have external problems.

But why is this non-peace there in the first place?  What drives people
to hurt or want to hurt other whether through direct violence, words,
thoughts, or intentions.  Something is wrong.

>
>Highest Love and Peace

Yes.  And I find it in the Lord Jesus who loves not only myself but all
who read these words.

>The Tan Man

God bless and thanks for you comments,

John
[e-mail]

[please remember my slow newsfeed.  Have patience]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zephyr.ens.tek.com!uw-beaver!fluke!emery
From: [e-mail] (John Emery)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Keywords: Peace Clock
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Mar 92 21:35:41 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
Lines: 43
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Beth Lung) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (John Emery) writes:
>
>John>Please share what you are referring to, Janis.
>
>Janis>Oh, how about "In pain shall you bring forth children.  You shall remain
>Janis>in subjugation to your husband all your life, but your wishes shall be
>Janis>for him."

All this is a result of the curse because of our sin.  However, in addition
to what you quote here another quote out of the Bible says that Jesus
redeemed us from the curse of the law by paying for our sins (Galatians 3:13).

>Janis>How about when Lot sent his two virgin daughters out into a ravening mob
>Janis>of men so they would stop beating down his door?

Lot sinned.

>Janis>How about "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live?"

O Janis, why not rather repent and live.  His arms are open to accept and
forgive.


>Janis>How about "And the men of the city shall stone her with stones?"

Jesus Christ was crucified.  And He was innocent.

>Perhapse, John, you might care to read _The Challis and the Blade_
>(unfortunatly I cannot remember the author's name right now) I think
>it would provide you with some more -enlightening- examples.

Thanks for the suggestion, Beth.

>        May you walk in peace,
>            Beth

Thank you.  And you also.

John
[e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zephyr.ens.tek.com!uw-beaver!fluke!emery
From: [e-mail] (John Emery)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Mar 92 22:27:50 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: John Fluke Mfg. Co., Inc., Everett, WA
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Amanda Walker) writes:
>[e-mail] (John Emery) writes:
>> But my
>> Lord Jesus offers such eternal words, "Peace I leave with you; my peace I
>> give to you.  I do not give to you as the world gives.  Do not let your
>> hearts be troubled and do not be afraid."
>
>That's not all he said, though.  Take a look at Matthew 10:34-36, for
>example ("Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth;
>it is not peace I have come to bring, but a sword...").

Jesus is talking about those who persecute the ones who follow Him.
Unfortunately, getting saved and converting to Christ is not a popular
thing to do around those who have not.  I still remember telling a
friend of mine whom I grew up with what I had done when I accepted
Jesus.  When I said the Jesus was for him too, he wanted to hit me.
People are even disowned from their families for following Jesus.
But the promise of Jesus' peace in the hearts of those turn to Him
still stands as the original quote above states.

>
>> Amanda, please share with the readers how your source of peace is found
>> in these writings.  Of particular interest, what have you found in the
>> Quran that brings you peace?  And how does it bring you peace?
>
>"And if they incline to peace, then incline to it and trust in Allah;
>surely He is the Hearing, the Kknowing."    Quran 8:61

Do you trust in Allah, Amanda?  Is that what brings you peace?

>"And Allah invites to the abode of peace and guides whom He pleases into
> the right path."    --Quran 10:25

So there is a right path, then?  Don't you believe there are many paths?
According this quote there is a right path.  Is that what brings you
peace, following the right path?  Please explain why you believe in a
right path and describe what it is.

>> Amanda, if peace is already in everyone's heart, it sure has a way of
>> disguising itself.  Look around you.  Is the world around you full of
>> peace?
>
>Parts of it are indeed....

But awfully small parts.

>> Thank you.  I pray that He does.  And not only I, but yourself and all
>> those who are reading, whom He calls out to.
>
>Chuckle.  I think you may be jumping to conclusions here :)...
>
>
>Amanda Walker                              [e-mail]
>Visix Software Inc.                    ...!uupsi!visix.com!amanda
>--
>"Specialization is for insects."    --Robert A. Heinlein

Take care.  Peace be upon you,

John
[e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!jvnc.net!darwin.sura.net!convex!egsner!adaptex!sdf!hideo
From: [e-mail] (David Carter)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Zontar?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Mar 92 00:32:22 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Distribution: na
Organization: sdf Public Access UNIX, Dallas--unrestricted free shell access
Lines: 15

Another interesting occurrance of Zontar was a great episode
of SCTV where these cabbage-on-a-string aliens landed on
the roof and everyone started
growing cabbage leaves out of their collars. The show ended with
John Candy in a kind of alien-emperor-god getup bellowing directives
from a big screen TV. Had on a skin-head wig and called himself
Zontar. I saw Zontar Thing From Venus too! Whole movie takes place
in a cheesy livingroom or in a cheesy cave. Period! Alternates
between these 2 hideous locations. The color is hilariously
substandard too. A must see.

David Carter           : URANUS: not truly a place
aka Hideo Gump         : where the Sun don't shine,
Dallas, Texas USA      : but certainly a place where
[e-mail] : the Sun shines dimly!
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!fnal.fnal.gov!raph
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: What would it take for you...(WAS: Abducted while driving?)
Summary: For skeptics, what is the minimum proof...
Keywords: Your criteria; abduction; proof
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Mar 92 01:15:54 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4g=[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (The Daily Lose)
Followup-To: Re: Abducted while driving?
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
Lines: 88

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (Thomas Kettenring) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
> [..]
>> Jim Hawtree - also a hardnosed skeptic, but one who has come across several
>> incidents that cannot be written off.  <[e-mail]>
>
> Surely you mean: incidents that he couldn't find a way to write off.

No, I mean that in certain cases that I am well-acquainted with, I have ran
out of comfortable explanations.  In these cases, I cannot ascribe the events
to:
 1)sloppy observation on the part of the witness;
2) lack of intelligence on the part of the witness;
3) desire for attention;
4) meteorological phenomena;
5) swamp gas, the planet Venus in the sky, etc.;
6) history of lying;
7) mental instability;
8) petite mal, minor stroke, drug use;
9) unusual optical effects, such as nonlinear reflections from windows;
10) practical jokes or fraud;
11) phosphenes;
12) hallucinations due to lack of sleep, extreme stress, etc.;
13) any disorders found in the DSM-III after examination by SEVERAL
psychiatrists;
Plus, the presence of several circumstances, generally including:
1) presence of shock and/or disorientation, objectively observable, on the
part of the witness;
2) presence of most, or all the criteria for PTSD (post-traumatic stress
disorder);
3) subjectively long interval over which the event occurred (i.e. not a
momentary lapse);
4) lack of scripted, expected or fantasized details, or complete violation of
all expectactions of what such an event would be like.

Of course, many of the following are only possible to determine with someone
one knows quite well.  Of course, an actor or schizophrenic might put on a
very convincing simulacrum; but the above just does not happen without a cause,
and occam's razor starts to cut uncomfortably in the direction of the alien
visitor hypothesis, leaving me with a feeling not unlike a Christian Scientist
with appendicitis...   :-)

The similarity I made previously between rape and the "abduction" experience
was not done lightly.  Some things are similar, others are different in kind,
but not in intensity.  It does not in the least resemble wish-fulfillment, or
a fantasy, or even fit the person's expectations.  Unfortunately, what has
impressed me I cannot expect to be taken as "objective" or "scientific"
proof, alas.

Unfortunately, there are "True Believers" who think all sorts of things exist,
regardless of all proof and logic available to them; some of them are True
Believers in the existence of UFOs; others are True Believers in the
nonexistence of UFOs.  I have held for most of my life the belief that if
intelligent aliens existed, that they would act according to certain scenarios,
or hypotheses; and that since these conditions were not met, they could not
possibly reasonably exist.  However, a few very good acquaintences were the
means of puncturing that confortable assumption.

BY THE WAY:  What is the minimum sort of proof that you would need to experince
for you to conclude that intelligent aliens really existed, and abducted
people, and subjected them to some sort of (unknown, perhaps medical) tests?
I would suggest that an experience that was 1) extremely intense in degree;
2) would last over an hour; and 3) have effects of some sort that would be
observable by me after the "event" in an objective fashion, but not have a
natural explanation.  Would you consider this necessary and sufficient \
minimum proof for you?  ( I am not talking about objective proof for all
skeptics across the world here, I am asking what would convince YOU personally?)
For instance, seeing lights in the sky, or even a glowing disk for 10 minutes
would not be sufficient for me; nor would a half-hour of bizarre goings-on
in my bedroom be sufficient evidence for me.  Assuming that you are a reasonable
person, what is your minimum criterion or criteria for accepting the alien
hypothesis?  Or is this question somehow intellectually unfair?

> The question of whether the electron is a wave or a particle
> has a clear and definite answer:  No.

                    Cordially, Jim Hawtree

*************************************************************************
Disclaimer:  Neither the senior physicists nor the janitor's union at Fermilab
knows  about nor cares about (let alone endorses) my opinions and statements
above.
*************************************************************************
"If anyone disagrees with anything I say, I am quite prepared not only to
retract it, but also to deny under oath that I ever said it."
                                -- Tom Lehrer
*************************************************************************
Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!mips!swrinde!network.ucsd.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!sforslev
From: [e-mail] (Susanne Forslev)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Zontar?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Mar 92 01:41:17 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Distribution: na
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois
Lines: 9

Along with Zontar coming from a science fiction movie, has anyone seen
Godzilla vs Monster Zero?  The flying saucers in that one look just like
the pictures of the Gulf Breeze saucers.


Sue Forslev
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
|  When the going gets weird, the weird turns pro -- Raoul Duke
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!convex!constellation!phyast!srl
From: [e-mail] (Steve Levengood)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: I WAS CAPTURED BY SPACE ALIENS
Keywords: alien
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Mar 92 20:12:44 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (Nets)
Organization: Engineering Computer Network, University of Oklahoma, Norman, OK, USA
Lines: 13


    I WAS CAPTURED BY SPACE ALIENS

    I was captured by space aliens last week.  They wanted a specimen
to take back to their homeworld.  They wanted to be sure that I met
certain criteria.  They tested me.  The first test was to ascertain
my pain tolerence.  They strapped me down and made me listen to Donny
and Marie Osmond records.  After twelve minutes I began to scream.
They stopped the test.  I had passed.  The next test was to discover how quickly
I could loose consciousness.  They made me watch a George Bush speech.
I fell asleep in about four minutes.  I had passed.  Next they wanted
to see how intelligent I was.  They made me read this entire news group.
I believed everything.  They let me go.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!world!kibo
From: [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: HUGE SAUSAGE!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Mar 92 01:12:10 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: A room filled with typography (in Boston's Back Bay)
Lines: 8
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5111 alt.religion.kibology:1356

In article <[e-mail]> Peri E. Arnold.1.ndedu (Peri E. Arnold) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Howell Parry) writes:
[...]

Parry Arnold, if you spelled your name the official way we would welcome
you into the Parry Conspiracy.  We have taken over the planet.

                            -- j"k"p
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!robobar!gtoal
From: [e-mail] (Graham Toal "[e-mail]")
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: So You Think You're a Clone, Eh?
Keywords: Sorry, it was too good to pass up!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Mar 92 23:44:45 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Robobar Ltd., Perivale, Middx., ENGLAND.
Lines: 11

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Doug Ritter) writes:
>"I Think I'm a Clone Now"
>words by W.A. Yankovic

I'm have going round the back of my mind the line
  "You're never alone... when you're a clone".

If that wasn't Weird Al, who was it?

G
--
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew
From: [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: terraforming
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Mar 92 05:02:41 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Lines: 44


    [e-mail] writes:

    I have, for some time, thought that terraforming was a waste
    of time and energy.  the energy requirments just for a
    conversion of mars' atmosphere are in the neiborhood of 10^23
    calories.

... well, there may be alternative methods to make Mars more
hospitable that become available at a later date.  (We still have to
get people there at all...)  Perhaps (as others have suggested) some
organism, or other mechanism.  Some clever, efficient method may
become known only after further exploration of the planet itself.
(It also depends on one's criteria for "terraforming" - what you're
willing to designate an "acceptable environment".  It might entail
altering flora and fauna to suit the environment, and changing
the environment only somewhat, rather than full-scale make-it-
just-like-earthing.)

      for that energy ;you could build enough O'niel type
    space colonies to have many times mar's availabe surface area.
    I fail to understand this fascination with living on planets.

... planets have raw materials that a space-colony does not.  (To
create L-5-like colonies, for instance, requires a massive mining
presence on the moon.)  If an O'Neil colony is to manufacture anything
even after it is set up (perhaps to to repay the cost of setting the
colony up -- O'Neil colonies require massive up-front expenditures),
it must import raw materials to do that too.  For all that effort, it
might be more cost-effective to simply place the colony on the moon
(not as much fun, though... :-)

    Why climb bacck down into a gravity well after spending so
    much ingenuity getting out?

... 'cause that's where the raw materials are.  Also, Mars's gravity
well is significantly smaller than Earth's.

   I would say further that there is a certain psychological advantage
to having dirt under your feet, even red dirt (I'm from NC, so I'm
used to red dirt! :-).  If you're asking people to go and live
someplace far away, such things have to be considered.

Charles
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ucselx!petunia!cindy!wcrane
From: [e-mail] (Walter Joseph Crane)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Radio Re-Broadcast with John Lear & Bob Extler.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Mar 92 23:31:33 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (no news is good news)
Distribution: usa
Organization: California State University, Chico
Lines: 41
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5114 sci.space:28496 sci.skeptic:22203 alt.paranormal:4700
Nntp-Posting-Host: cscihp.ecst.csuchico.edu


I was listening to a radio program last night/morning(3/27/92) and it was a
call-in show. I believe the hosts name was Art Bell? He was interviewing two
guys you all are probably familiar with named John Lear (I think) and Bob
Extler? It was 4+ hours that will be rebroadcasted probably real soon. It was
through the CBC network. In Las Vegas 383-8255, and 1-800-338-8255. Other
Numbers were 702-385-7214, and first time callers 702-385-7213. The show
originates out of Las Vegas, and it is nation wide. It was all news to me and
very facinating.
Some of the things mentioned.......

Element 115.
Gravity Amplifer.
Aliens/E.T.
Space Crafts.
Materials Used.
Level on a Craft.
Gravity Propulsion.
MJ-12
22 missing top scientist.
Melting of a Antenna in Mass.?(I think)
Location as to where they are from.
Politics
Test sights
Piramids
Time travel

That's all I can remember since it was very late.
I would Highly suggest to record the program.
I'll try to record the audio of the radio to my VCR (camera mode).



      o            ---==={ The Amazing Walt-o-man }===---               o
      5L               [e-mail]                  5L
     /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
    / " Leaders Leave Last, Fools Flee First. "  The Amazing Walt-o-man /
   /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////



Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!umeecs!sparky.eecs.umich.edu!baillod
From: [e-mail] (Brad Baillod)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: HUGE SAUSAGE!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Mar 92 23:25:03 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Mr. News)
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Lines: 27

HUGE SAUSAGE!!!























HUGE SAUSAGE!!!
--
Brad Baillod                        [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!rutgers!igor.rutgers.edu!dropout.rutgers.edu!mcgrew
From: [e-mail] (Charles Mcgrew)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Xeroxing circles in the fields?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Mar 92 05:35:44 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Lines: 13

Hi,

   Wouldn't your scheme lead to rather large side-effects (i.e.
electrical discharges -- lighting?)  I don't recall any descriptions
(of the people who have been at sites during the time when circles are
being formed) that saw such.  The electrical properties of a given
area of ground are not uniform (or at least not uniform when you're
talking about that much charge), and I suspect you'd have some
discharge-effects (and perhaps even fires).

   Keep thinking, though; your mind works in intereting ways!

Charles
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!uchinews!ellis!thf2
From: [e-mail] (Ted Frank)
Newsgroups: alt.religion.kibology,alt.alien.visitors,rec.arts.tv,alt.revisionism
Subject: Re: HUGE SAUSAGE!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Mar 92 17:52:09 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News System)
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Chicago Computing Organizations
Lines: 29
Xref: ns-mx alt.religion.kibology:1359 alt.alien.visitors:5117 rec.arts.tv:43491

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (The Ahkond of Swat) writes:
>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>I'd like to point out that I have no reason to suspect that I may
>>>be related to Howell.
>>
>>What about Lovey?  Now that I think of it, if you're related to any
>>of those castaways, it's probably Gilligan.
>
>Actually, I played The Professor.  One day I invented this ersatz
>Minoxodil made from coconuts using my nuclear accelerator (made from
>bamboo and seaweed) but Gilligan goofed it up and when we smeared it on
>the Cap'n it turned him into Cap'n Crunch and he went around coating
>everything with sugar.
>
>Also, I played Martin Landau in "The Harlem Globetrotters on Gilligan's
>Island", in which they played basketball against robots for the fate of
>the world.
>                            -- K.

The Wall Street Journal reports that there's going to be a remake of
Gilligan's Island in the next TV season featuring the only six survivors
from an accidental nuclear war.  The title is "Woops!"  I am not making
this up.
--
Ted Frank          + "There are different Klans, just like there are different
1307 E 60 St, #109 +  fraternities in college." -- David Duke/// "This is what
U o' C Law Skool   +  a fraternity is about, we take people and put them in
Chi, IL 60637      +  one room and say 'You will become friends!'" -- AH Betts
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!rutgers!ub!acsu.buffalo.edu!majcher
From: [e-mail] (Salamander~)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,misc.test,alt.exploding.kibo,alt.religion.kibology,alt.personals,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Mar 92 19:29:24 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: UB
Lines: 79
Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2522 misc.test:14391 alt.exploding.kibo:96 alt.religion.kibology:1362 alt.personals:26428 alt.alien.visitors:5118
Nntp-Posting-Host: lictor.acsu.buffalo.edu

[e-mail] (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
>>[e-mail] (Kevin L. McBride) writes:
>>
>>>[e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>
>>>> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (barry.o.olson) writes:
>>>> >In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Russ Taylor) writes:
>>>> >> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed]
>>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS.
>>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH.  I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT.
>>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you
>>>> >> added your ten cents?  A thousand-degree flame on you!
>>>> >>
>>>> >> (homey don't play dat!)
>>>> >>
>>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth?
>>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich
>>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width.
>>
>>>> >> And why is this a waste of it?
>>>> >because he made a paste of it
>>>> Schroeder played a tune of it.
>>
>>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor
>>>> >he never was a sailor
>>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer.
>>
>>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE?  PLEASE EXERCISE
>>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT.
>>
>>>Okay.
>>
>>
>>    Come on guys, I think he means it.  Don't follow up to this.

>No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious.

>Go ahead and follow up.

>Or kill me.

>Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess.

>>--
>>[e-mail]      | The meek shall inherit the earth,
>>[e-mail] |     and the wise keep moving on...
>>Rev. M @P.O. Box 156     O    |-----------------------------------------
>> Amherst, NY  14226      +    |Ask me about the Secret Society!  Shhhh!

>~ibo
>--
>[e-mail]
>M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming  305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139
>(  the  nonibo  -ibo  )  [phone] [home]  [phone] [office]

    No!  Don't follow up to this!  Whatever you do, _don't_ press
that "f" button!  It's a sin!  It's a sin!  This is against the gods
of bandwidth and all that is wholly!  See what you do!  You waste and
waste and waste until the unthinkable happens!  Nay, until the
_unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the
world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up!  My
_GOD_!  How can you even think it!  How can you dream it and still
remain sane?!?!?  How can it be?!?!?!?!  Gah!!!!

--
[e-mail]      | The meek shall inherit the earth,
[e-mail] |     and the wise keep moving on...
Rev. M @P.O. Box 156     O    |-----------------------------------------
 Amherst, NY  14226      +    |Ask me about the Secret Society!  Shhhh!
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!pacbell.com!att!rutgers!news.cs.indiana.edu!news.nd.edu!Peri E. Arnold.1.ndedu
From: Peri E. Arnold.1.ndedu (Peri E. Arnold)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: HUGE SAUSAGE!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Mar 92 20:19:14 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Notre Dame
Lines: 35

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Howell Parry) writes:
>
> I was driving home from uni last year, when suddenly, out of the sky
> came a huge sausage!!!
> It landed in front of my car, and forced me to stop.
> Some small maggot-like creatures emerged from the sausage, and grabbed me
> out of the car.
> They took me inside the sausage. It was all dark and smelled of rotting meat.
> There was a whirring sound, and suddenly, the sausage opened up and I was on
> an alien planet, where all the inhabitants were sausages!
> They all wobbled around, and had big smiles on their faces.....
> They took me to a hut, and gave me a bowl of cornflakes.
> Suddenly, there was another whirring sound, and before I knew it, I was parked
> in my car at the side of the road, back on Earth.
>
> Can anyone explain this? Has anyone else had a similar experience?
> Are there really sausages in space?
>
> -Howell Parry.
>
> E-mail: [e-mail].p4
>
> --
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> ! Howell Parry. 2nd yr Computer Science and Mathematics,          !
> !                                    Manchester Uni, Uk           !
> ! E-mail:    [e-mail].p4                               !
>
> You have had an unusual experience but one that is not unheard of among
people with an affinity for sausages.  Of course there are sausages in space y
you fool.  Didn't you see and smell them?  Weren't you in one?  The real
you fail to ask is, what kind of sausage was it that you visited?  Was it
pork?  Was it veal?  Was it a kosher sausage?  Space voyagers need to be
more observant than you were on your first journey.  Next time, keep your
eyes open, and good eating.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!psinntp!balltown!connolly
From: [e-mail] (Ian Connolly)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Abducted while driving?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Mar 92 01:09:15 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <l-bjm0=[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: New York State Institute for Sebastian Cabot Studies
Lines: 6

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Leping N Zha) writes:
>Did anyone experienced such missing time during driving smelled sulphur
>in the air after it happened (as my whole family did two years ago
>on the DC-Baltimore expressway)?

!  This frequently happens on the NJ Turnpike near the refineries.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!decwrl!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!draco!orion!stimpsn
From: [e-mail] (Gary Stimpson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Show on TV.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Mar 92 08:36:07 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (BBS Account)
Organization: The Orion Unix System [A/UX 2.0.1], Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Lines: 10

Did anybody watch `Sightings: UFO's' on TV the other day?  Not a bad show,
there were even some MUFON people on there!  Hmm.. tonight they showed
`Sightings: Ghosts' but that dosen't belong in this newsgroup!  Two
interesting shows though!  Hope some people got to see them.

OH MY GOODNESS!  Something's coming up behind me!!!! LDSA{PSDas[

--
[e-mail] (Gary Stimpson)
The Orion Unix System [A/UX 2.0.1], Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!noc.MR.NET!uc.msc.edu!uh.msc.edu!eab
From: [e-mail] (Edward Bertsch)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: Radio Re-Broadcast with John Lear & Bob Extler.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Mar 92 13:35:11 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Network News)
Distribution: usa
Organization: Minnesota Supercomputer Center
Lines: 65
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5122 sci.space:28505 sci.skeptic:22209 alt.paranormal:4701

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Walter Joseph Crane) writes:
|>
|> I was listening to a radio program last night/morning(3/27/92) and it was a
|> call-in show. I believe the hosts name was Art Bell? He was interviewing two
|> guys you all are probably familiar with named John Lear (I think) and Bob
|> Extler? It was 4+ hours that will be rebroadcasted probably real soon. It was
|> through the CBC network. In Las Vegas 383-8255, and 1-800-338-8255. Other
|> Numbers were 702-385-7214, and first time callers 702-385-7213. The show
|> originates out of Las Vegas, and it is nation wide. It was all news to me and
|> very facinating.
|> Some of the things mentioned.......
|>
|> Element 115.

so what is this?

|> Gravity Amplifer.

and this??

|> Aliens/E.T.
|> Space Crafts.
|> Materials Used.
|> Level on a Craft.
|> Gravity Propulsion.
|> MJ-12
|> 22 missing top scientist.

which ones?

|> Melting of a Antenna in Mass.?(I think)
|> Location as to where they are from.
|> Politics
|> Test sights
|> Piramids

Pyramids?

|> Time travel
|>
|> That's all I can remember since it was very late.
|> I would Highly suggest to record the program.
|> I'll try to record the audio of the radio to my VCR (camera mode).
|>
|>
|>
|>       o            ---==={ The Amazing Walt-o-man }===---               o
|>       5L               [e-mail]                  5L
|>      /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
|>     / " Leaders Leave Last, Fools Flee First. "  The Amazing Walt-o-man /
|>    /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
|>
|>
|>
|>
|>

--

Edward A. Bertsch ([e-mail])   Minnesota Supercomputer Center, Inc.
Operations/User Services          1200 Washington Avenue South
[phone] work               Minneapolis, Minnesota  55415
[phone] voice mail

    "Read _MY_ lips: I won't be voting for Bush in 1992"
Path: ns-mx!uunet!seas.smu.edu!utacfd.uta.edu!trsvax!rwsys!sdf!hideo
From: [e-mail] (David Carter)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Abducted while driving?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Mar 92 07:09:41 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <l-bjm0=[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: sdf Public Access UNIX, Dallas--unrestricted free shell access
Lines: 8

I was abducted while skiing, and when I "came to" I was inexpilcably
soaking in a hot tub back at the lodge with my underwear on my head.
Eerie.

David Carter           : URANUS: not truly a place
aka Hideo Gump         : where the Sun don't shine,
Dallas, Texas USA      : but certainly a place where
[e-mail] : the Sun shines dimly!
Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!kcbbs!kc
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sutton)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Talmud as Given by Judas Iscario
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Mar 92 07:16:17 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand
Lines: 7

[e-mail] 26 March 92 (17.55.54) types-
>>The making of the Messiah said to be to Christianity what The Satanic
>>Verses are to Islam

     Does that mean you will be/have purused the costs for bodyguards?.

    P.S.-Has the UFO Verdict changed?
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!munnari.oz.au!bruce!trlluna!titan!cetra!lightw
From: [e-mail] (Liron Lightwood)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: terraforming
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Mar 92 01:41:54 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Telecom Research Labs, Melbourne, Australia
Lines: 17

[e-mail] (Ben Delisle) writes:


>   One possible way that although uses a lot of energy, Its costs are
>not as high as others: push astroides in to a orbital vecter that will
>take it in a collision path to the target world. the resultant
>collision may free gasses into the asmosphere and add mass.

Sounds good.... as long as you don't hit the wrong planet :-)

" I said the FOUNTR planet you moron!  Can't you tell a difference
between a 3 and a 4? "

Liron Lightwood                     Internet : [e-mail]
Telecom Research Laboratories       Phone : [phone]
770 Blackburn Road                  Snail : P.O. Box 249 Clayton 3168 Australia
Clayton  Vic. 3168 Australia        Disclaimer : My views are not my company's?
Path: ns-mx!uunet!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo
From: [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Show on TV.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Mar 92 00:47:35 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System
Lines: 38

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Gary Stimpson) writes:

>Did anybody watch `Sightings: UFO's' on TV the other day?  Not a bad show,
>there were even some MUFON people on there!  Hmm.. tonight they showed
>`Sightings: Ghosts' but that dosen't belong in this newsgroup!  Two
>interesting shows though!  Hope some people got to see them.
>
>OH MY GOODNESS!  Something's coming up behind me!!!! LDSA{PSDas[

>--
>[e-mail] (Gary Stimpson)
>The Orion Unix System [A/UX 2.0.1], Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada


Hi,
what kind of show was it ? What channel was it on ?
Is it also available on CNN ? This is the only American channel, we get over
in Germany in our cable system !

Please could somebody post anouncement of upcoming UFO-reports on TV, so that
everybody who can get the channel doesn't miss this event ?

P.S.: I'm still looking for good video-tapes about UFO-sightings to digitize
them and place them at the new UFO-pics-FTP-site at phoenix.oulu.fi
(130.231.240.17). If anybody knows of a good source, please let me know !

Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for
Decentral Energy Research
email to: [e-mail]


--

*******************************************************************************
*  Stefan Hartmann       This is how to contact me:                           *
*  EMAIL: [e-mail]                                            *
*  Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66      FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79                   *
*******************************************************************************
Path: ns-mx!uunet!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo
From: [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic,sci.space
Subject: Color UFO-pics soon at UFO-FTP-site !
Summary: ufo
Keywords: ufo
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Mar 92 01:00:39 GMT
Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System
Lines: 29
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5127 alt.paranormal:4704 sci.skeptic:22221 sci.space:28521

Hi,
today a friend of mine came to me with the book from Ed Walters:
UFOs,es gibt sie doch ! ISBN: 2-426-26463-3
This is the book about the UFO-sightings from Ed Walters from Pensocola,FL
in the Gulf Breeze region.(USA)

The pictures inside the book are gorgious ! Full color pics of several simular
UFOs which look like the "crown"-"ballon"-type.
I did scan them today and will make them soon available in color-GIF format
at the UFO-pics-FTP-site at phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17).

Also my friend has brought over for scanning the book by Maria Popovich:
"UFO-Glasnost"
There is inside the photo of an alien humanoid, which should have been made
from the Roswell UFO-crash in 1947.
I will also upload this pic soon in GIF-format.

Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for
Decentral Energy Research
email to: [e-mail]


--

*******************************************************************************
*  Stefan Hartmann       This is how to contact me:                           *
*  EMAIL: [e-mail]                                            *
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Zontar again
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Mar 92 01:23:02 GMT
Organization: LOYOLA MARYMOUNT UNIV - CENTER FOR ACADEMIC COMPUTING
Lines: 7

I found the source of this Zontar talk.  It's a pretty poor documentary film in
 which this psychic enters a trance and talks to the space operator/Zontar righ
t there on the miracle of film.  There's also an old Englishman who explains ho
w Jeses visited him in a cigar-shaped craft.  Has anyone else seen this film?
What's it called?

Sivle Nora
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: The Pleiadians: Awakening
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Mar 92 05:59:22 GMT
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AWAKENING The Pleiadians
    Good evening. We are your ancient family. We come from the star system
The Pleiades. We know ourselves as The Pleiadians and we, eons ago, millions
of years ago, were your relatives.
    When your Earth sphere, Terra, was being formed, there were many who
expressed an interest to be pioneers and to go to a new area to learn to
experience, to formulate, to create. That was the opportunity and many of our
dearly beloved Pleiadians signed on.
    The Pleiadian culture is ancient. [It] was seeded from another
universe, a universe of love, a universe that moved back to All That Is. The
Pleiadians seeded the Pleiadian star system within this universe before the
Earth's sphere transfer became available. We formed a tremendous society. We
operate with love. We operate with ideas and ideals that you are totally
unfamiliar with.
    Our technology in your terms would be somewhat similar. We are, in
your terms, computerized. We like that term because it represents an overall
picture of our abilities. The picture actually only represents one per cent of
what we are capable of doing. However, from your point of view, think of us as
a computerized society. We are collective energy. We are not of your
dimension. The star system of the Pleiades has seven stars, six of which we
believe, you may see from the naked eye. There are many planets and we are
millions upon millions of miles from your system though we have transportation
that can bring us here very quickly. We have many modes of transportation.
    Mostly we come in starships. Often mother ships. The mother ships are
gigantic, one of your miles, housing thousands. [They are] elongated, one of
our fashions, [and] would take, in your terms, days to transport itself here.
We have disc ships which can be here quickly, within portions of your day.
    We have difficulty at times translating your time system, your hours,
your minutes, into what is relative to our system, perhaps less than one
quarter of your day. We are an advanced civilization. Our technology is
ancient because it is coming from another universe that has evolved back to
First Cause.
    We chose not to evolve back to First Cause but to go on out of love,
to assist the growth of this universe. We were allowed to bring that knowing
with us because our technological development is totally in line with the
First Cause and we would never operate in any fashion that did not support the
love and development of humanity of all creatures in all of this universe. So
we were allowed to be here. We were welcomed.
    We are the ambassadors, in this star area, this universe, from another
universe. We are working with many, not just with Terra, the Earth. We are
working in other solar systems, with other planetary creatures, with other
creations.
    This universe is a vast and new experiment. Different options, we like
that word, are being attempted here. Free will reigns in this universe. On
Terra you think you have free will but you do not really understand what free
will is. Free will encompasses the complete idea that whatever it is that you
are wanting you may have. And your sole point in choosing to partake in the
planetary system within this universe that has free will was so that you may
do whatever it is that you wish.
    Terra was formed with specific intents in mind. It was formed to be a
center for this solar system, a trade center, a launching pad for ideas. Much
like, as different portions of your globe have developed, and different port
cities, or areas came into fashion and represented trends, cultural
advancements, exchanges of ideas at different points in time, and then fell by
the wayside.
    The ideal of Terra's role would be the jewel within the universe for
its beauty physically to the eye, and this physical beauty would be beheld not
just in one dimension but in many dimensions. That it would be a center of
tremendous beauty, of tremendous exchange, of freedom, of ideas and beauty and
love and peoples, humanities, creatures from all of this universe and star
system ideally would have come here and exchanged what it is they had, as
goods would be exchanged in the marketplace, with others.
    Now, as you know, that has not taken place. Fortunately that is
changing. Unfortunately, eons in your past, events occurred that were not
anticipated, for when one deals with free will one never knows. There are no
expectations with free will, just intentions and hopes. And even intentions
sometimes may be transmuted.
    Now, that was the original intention. Then eons ago, millions of years
ago, there was a disruptive force that became quite pronounced in this area of
creation, experimenting as it would be, with another form of being. This
experimenting was not evil, it was just another point of view. We speak in
very neutral terms so as not to lay blame or prejudice on anyone.
    This disruptive force effected Terra greatly. It threw the cosmic
forces, the hierarchies into vast confusion. And it has been all these eons,
these millions of years that this has been attempted to be righted.
    Now, through the last thousands of years we have been assisting the
higher spiritual forces, those from the First Cause. Our assistance we freely
gave because original family members came to this experiment of Terra and then
when those disruptive energies became prevalent and changed the intent of what
Terra would be we lost contact with our family members. It was very sad for
us, for we had never anticipated this loss.
    Being that we as Pleiadians are highly evolved and of great knowing
and great connectedness with the First Cause, we knew that this was a
temporary loss of family members, though temporary in our terms was millions
of years. And though the initial shock was felt literally throughout the
universe and universes, we formulated a plan and knew that there would be a
time when we would be reunited.
    We are your family members who lost contact with you eons ago. We have
come to retrieve you. We have come to reestablish contact, to assist you, so
that you can now reunite with us, liberate yourselves and choose to come back
to the Pleiades or to stay here on Terra and raise the vibration and allow
Terra to become what it was originally planned to become, the international
exchange, intergalactic international trade exchange center for the universe.
    Now, as you may well know, that upon looking at your planet you can
shake your head and say, goodness, we have ventured far from our original
goal. And, indeed, that is true, you have. However, at this time events are
manifesting on your planet that are about to change all of that.
    It was known eons ago that there would be a point where the energies
would be ripe for contact, for adjustments, for receiving energy for
realignment. It was hoped that that juncture would be reached through the
opening of the free will bodies, by their own choice, through love.
    That is not the case. You have reached critical times. It began
peaking 30, 40 years ago, and the activities that have been occurring on this
sphere have been of grave concern to all within your universe. The lack of
love for humanity, for one another on this planet. Separations of self from
self. The missing of the message that you are all one, that you are all
connected, that what one does affects the other.
    Know that there are many millions on the planet out of the billions,
who are awakened, who are moving toward the enlightenment, moving towards the
acknowledgement of the First Creator, in whatever minuscule way they can
conceive of this vast entity.
    What is happening on your planet at this time is that the energy of
the First Creator, is being presented to the planet as a whole. When we say
"as a whole", there are no groupings that would be select over others. The
opportunities exist for everyone. It is the individual humanity's choice to
acknowledge the opportunity that presents itself.
    [The awakened ones will be] assigned, so to speak, to awaken someone.
First Creator energy is now being made available to the planet, on a vast
level, vast. It's encircling the sphere. Light frequency is bombarding your
planet, though only those who know how to use this energy can feel it. It is
as if an invisible force is in your lives and if you are not aware of this
invisible force, you will not see it.
    Now, if the awakeners approach the awakenees with love, with intent of
service, with intent of changing the planetary potential, the planetary
history, and also are willing to bond unconditionally with the awakenee, it
will be successful. In most cases, those that need now to be awakened are
working about this in their dream state and they are in a state of confusion
in their waking world and so they are welcoming something that will give them
greater power and direction.
    The awakenees will need guidance for a short amount of time because of
the energy that is available [but] the knowings will happen very quickly, then
they, too, [will awaken and empower others]. The more members, the greater
members of humanity that are in knowing, the easier the times ahead will be.
    We are working, sitting at the edges of our seats. When we say "our",
we mean our beings, the star individuals, the star families, the spirit
guides, the ascended masters, the callers from the great cause, the First
Cause. There are many here. The skies, the atmospheres are full, so to speak,
of who we are keeping Terra in force, keeping it alive and vibrant, glowing,
and also respecting your free will at the same time.
    That is why we say the awakenings are so important at this time. They
are of prime concern. Individual awakenings. Word of mouth. It is the best way
of accomplishing what it is that needs to be accomplished. Word of mouth.
Books are fine. Tapings are fine. But one individual loving another individual
liberates, frees. And that individual goes off and creates and effects many
others. That is how the process will occur, as we see it.
    We stated earlier that Terra is a free will district along with the
entire universe, however, there is a code of honor that exists along with free
will. And that code of honor represents the respect for life. All of life. The
respect, and the commitment to no violation of life. The honoring of life is
paramount, and allowing that life.
    Now, millions upon millions of years ago when the disruptive forces
came in and changed all of that, free will was granted still and we stepped
back, and saw and watched, and knew that there would be a time when all of
this would come to an apex, as it would be said when the changes could be
made.
    Disruptive forces have come again. This time they will not succeed.
However, the energy is of great influence on the planet at this time because
of the technological development and the extent of this technological
influence throughout the planet.
    We ask that each person individually speak to another. At this point
very powerful individuals are being awakened. Those individuals who effect
other people, who influence other people are those that are awakening at this
time, and are being awakened by those who made agreements, contracts eons ago
to perform this service. We see that there will be changes geographically,
great changes. Because the changes represent the most benevolent way of
realignment. If there were to be great destructions, and there will be some
destructions along the lines of warrings, if that were to be the prevalent
case upon the entire sphere, it would effect the cosmos so greatly, that in
this case it cannot be allowed.
    The changes that will happen on the surface of Terra are not definite.
They will not be definite until they occur, until energy peaks. The energy
will be peaking partially through what's happening on the globe, also through
planetary and cosmic influences. The closer you may move towards the misuse of
the technology, then of course, Mother Earth, a living, viable, breathing
entity, would shift itself rather than destroy itself.
    [The] shifts will be of a healing nature, much as the ill person may
experience the tremendous fevers and burn and sweat and shake and then heal
themselves. If Mother Earth did not shift herself and the misuse of technology
would be [a] prevalent paradigm, do you know what would occur? It would be the
destruction of the universe.
    We do not wish to be annihilated and misuse of your technology on your
planet could annihilate a universe. Contemplate on what we are speaking for it
is profound.
    Many of you are looking for blacks and whites and the universe exists
in gray areas. It is not the way you think it is. There is life teeming
everywhere that you cannot see. There are many dimensions, there are many
forms of beings. What happens in your dimension would effect us all because
the building blocks of the universe, of the cosmos are connected. The atoms,
the elements are all one. They are universal. Universal tools, so to speak.
And through the misuse of one, in one segmented area, it would effect many
others. So that is why we say, we are tuning Mother Earth to this knowing.
Mother Earth knows this potential happening and would shift herself when the
time and the danger becomes great.
    Understand that all of these changes are contingent upon the
awakenings. If the awakenings happen very quickly and those within the
governments, within the arms industries, those within the publishing,
communicative areas, television, newspaper, movies, [if] those influential
people on the planet are awakened quickly, all could shift. Mother Earth will
do whatever is necessary to realign for her own survival.
    We are saying that if your intention is to step into the times ahead
with joy, and experience, and be a partaker, a conscious partaker of the
movement that the planet is selecting, then clearly think of what it is that
you want, intend it, plan on it, and then trust that the part of the body
located in the solar plexus will guide you along with the heart, to be where
it is you need to be. If you are clear in your plannings, if you count on it,
if you state it matter of factly, step into the knowing, not the thinking, but
the knowing beyond all shadow of a doubt that you will be here in joy, in
harmony, in happiness, in creativity, and in greater rejoicing of building the
world, the civilization that you all desire, then so shall you be.
    Now, think of that for a few moments and choose what it is you want.
Examine your hearts about what it is you are wanting. Throw by the wayside
those things that are not important to you and put your energy, your thoughts,
your hearts, into what it is that is most important. And do not, under any
circumstances, be afraid of making a change, for change is going to occur
whether you select it or not. So, by consciously selecting a change, whether
it be a move, or what have you, [it] may be your method, your means, of moving
into the times ahead. Do not resist change. Flow. It may come in the area of
relationships, the breakings up or the coming togethers. It may come in the
area of employment or a lack of. It may come in the area of sudden abundance
presenting itself to you or lack of. All these events will motivate you
towards something. We ask that you go inside, trust the feelings. Trust
yourself. One of the most beneficial endeavors that you will be involved with
is forming the extended families. With a networking of thirty to fifty people
it will be very powerful. We also wish to speak of the availability of outside
communication that is waiting to speak with many of you, that is speaking with
each and every one of you though you do not acknowledge it. Vast numbers are
willing to help.
    We ask you to examine your hearts, relinquish your fears, move towards
what it is that will be most important. We suggest, and we will assist in
these endeavors, that through your dream states you dare to dream of
possibilities that seem outlandish. Awakened ones and those becoming awakened
are being fed information through the dream state from the vast numbers and
given so called ideas. Instigated information. Potentialities of abilities
that are far beyond what is available now on the planet. And these will be fun
things. These will be joyful things. These will be loving things, healing
things, successful things. Play with your dream states and when one of these
crazy ideas comes to you, grasp onto it like a hot air balloon and ride it for
a while over the topography of yourself and see where it will take you.
    We ask you to approach these times with an open mind, a creative mind,
a loving mind, to move into the self. To trust the self. Open the heart. To
connect with humanity, to awaken the others. To be gentle with who you are.
For your difficulties you will lay down as they are old clothes that you will
no longer fit into or wear. Your aches, longings and difficulties can all be
laid to rest as you move into this great new garment of being.
    Many will be petrified of moving into this time for much must be
relinquished. Much must be changed and given up. However, we are saying that
if the Earth itself did not change in its seasons, it would be pretty dreary
indeed. And so fall needs to come and the winter set to rest so that in spring
there may be regrowth, revitalization and awakenings. This is what you'll be
experiencing.
    We have committed to guide you on this time. There are many who are
here loving you, assisting you, doing whatever is necessary. Open your hearts.
Open your eyes to what is coming. Do not be afraid. Know that you are
surrounded by love and energy greater than at this point you can fathom. So
great it is beyond your knowing, though a part of you knows that greatness and
brings it to yourself.
    We trust that what we have said empowers you, enlightens you, guides
you to who you need to be. Move forward. Move in love. Feel the connectedness
of all that is.
    Look into the eyes of fellow humanity and see yourselves for you are
there. Bless each one with the knowing that you have and your awakenings will
be greater than you ever imagined.
    Call on us for assistance and we will come to you. We send you our
blessings, our dearly beloved friends.

THE SOURCE: The Pleiadians are a collective of extraterrestrials from the star
system The Pleiades. The Pleiadian culture is ancient and was "seeded" from
another universe of love long before Earth was created. They have formed a
tremendous society which operates with love, with ideas and ideals that we are
yet unfamiliar with. The Pleiadians call themselves our ancient family because
many of us came here from The Pleiades to participate in the new experiment of
Earth. The Pleiadians are now here as ambassadors from another universe to
help Earth through her difficult transition from the third dimension to the
fourth dimension and to assist each of us in our personal endeavors of
awakening, remembering and knowing.

THE CHANNEL: Barbara J. Marciniak has been a student of Metaphysics for many
years. She gives credit to the Seth material channeled by Jane Roberts for her
insight into the necessity for conscious, intentional creation of personal
experience. Barbara travels extensively. In Athens, Greece in May of 1988, she
began channeling The Pleiadians after she and a group of friends experienced a
spiritual awakening in the Great Pyramid at Giza. Barbara currently lives in
Raleigh, North Carolina where she gives class sessions and workshops with The
Pleiadians. You may contact Barbara at

Bold Connections Unlimited P. O. Box 6521 Raleigh, NC 27628

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Copyrighted by Barbara  Marciniak Reprinted from Connecting Link Magazine with
permission.

Posted by Don Showen
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From: [e-mail] (L GENE BATTIN)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Abducted while driving?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Mar 92 05:35:59 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <4g=[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <l-bjm0=[e-mail]>
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In article <l-bjm0=[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer) writes...

>In article <[e-mail]>
>[e-mail] writes:

>>*sigh*
>>"Leading the witness"?
>>I have heard that expression used in two contexts.  In one context, it was
>>used to imply that some hypnotist was "planting" suggestions in the subject
>>under hypnosis.  I DO assume that the person reading this was NOT in a deep
>>and suggestible hypnotic state at the time he was reading my posting: if he
>>
>   Well, since "hypnosis" is mostly bullsh*t, anyway, it doesn't really
                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>   matter. Read Dr. Robert Baker's book, "Some Call it Hypnosis"; there
>   is no evidence of a separate and distinct 'hypnotic state', but
>   people can be suceptible or suggestible at any time, if circumstances
>   are right.

But I don't have the time, or the technical expertise in psychology to study
this claim in depth!  Lessee, since the "consensus" of opinion is that
hypnosis is _real_, I guess I get to call the underlined statement an
"extraordinary claim"?  Right?
Gee, when I _try_ to follow your rules, it don't seem to work so good!

(BTW, I personally _agree_ with your conclusions, I just take umbrage at
your inconsistent standards for skeptical inquiry.)

>               By saying in essence, "these things (numbers 1 through 5)
>   often happen to UFO abductees: did they happen to you?", you are
>   planting in the subject's mind the suggestion that he should search
>   his memory *very hard* for precisely these things. And if he
>   manages to convince himself that any of them are true, he now knows
>   (roughly speaking) what to report!
>
>   I realize, of course, that this forum is *not* the right medium
>   for anyone to conduct such queries, and that Jim was not attempting
>   to formally do so. I point this out only to illustrate how
>   easily a person's memories of an incident can become "contaminated"
>   by extraneous data.
>
>>The other context during which "Leading the witness" is used is during
>>criminal trials.  By your comments I would have to conclude that you would
>>discredit every rape victim if a doctor, policeman or lawyer questioned the
>>witness about the attack!  I am sure that some victims of a clear, violent
>>
>   As a positive example of how to proceed,
>
>   First, get the subject to fully state all memories (and get everything
>   on tape).
       ^^^^ should be videotape, see below
>
>   Don't say things like, "abductees are often fatigued, were you fatigued?".
>   Instead, ask "how did you feel at the time?" If you get no useful reply,
>   ask "what was your energy level at this time? High or low?"
>
>   Get the point??!  :)

Well, if the point is to ask questions in such a way as to guarantee that
the "questionee" picks up no possible "clues" to indicate what the
"preferred" answers are gonna be, I think your proposed example won't
do.  Even _animals_ are extremely good at picking up unconscious
"hints".  People are probably just as good, if not better.
To avoid giving any hints, you really should get the questioning done
in a blind manner, by someone who themselves has no idea what kind of
data you think is significant.  In the December, 1987 issue of OMNI
magazine is a summary of Pennsylvania psychiatrist Martin T. Orne's
"rules":
    "Hypnotists must not have any preconcieved ideas about the
    subject under discussion; they must have no contact with the
    subject prior to the session; and they must videotape the
    proceedings so that not only oral communication but also
    facial expressions can be reviewed."
All of these constraints are obviously in place to control unconscious
"cueing" as much as possible.

[Of course, since Orne must believe that hypnosis is of some use in
gathering data (otherwise, why care about "rules") he's just a
"bullsh*tter", to use your words, right? :-) ]

>
>
>
>
>--
>
>        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]
>
> Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!
>
>     "In the 1970's the world will undergo famines - hundreds of millions
>     of people are going to starve to death in spite of any crash programs
>     embarked upon now ... in 1985, when it is calculated [under the most
>     optimistic scenario] that the major die-back will be over, ..."
>
>                       Dr. Paul Ehrlich, "The Population Bomb," 1968
>

Gene Battin
[e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (L GENE BATTIN)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Mar 92 06:22:33 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (John Emery) writes...

>In article <[e-mail]>
>[e-mail] writes:

>>In article <[e-mail]>,
>>[e-mail] (John Emery) writes...

>>>in the heart of the instigator?  If there were peace in the hearts of
>>>people, then we wouldn't have external problems.  There is something wrong
>>
>>    Not necessarily.  If we had Peace AND non-Peace in our hearts,
>>then it would be possible for us to have external problems because
>>the two are at odds with each other, and one must win out, even if
>>only temporarily.  As long as it's the non-Peace side that is in
>>control, we will have external problems.
>
>But why is this non-peace there in the first place?  What drives people
>to hurt or want to hurt other whether through direct violence, words,
>thoughts, or intentions.  Something is wrong.

Probably has to do with the fact that few people seem to get very good
training in raising kids before going out and having a family.
All these undesireable behavior patterns are learned at an early
age, and probably get "hard-wired" into brains during early developement.
After that, it's probably too late to take more than partially effective
remedial measures.
I think society is making some progress in remedying this, slowly.

>
>>
>>Highest Love and Peace
>
>Yes.  And I find it in the Lord Jesus who loves not only myself but all
>who read these words.

Religion is a temporary expedient; useful in helping form a good environment
for raising kids who will become caring, loving adults (when handled
carefully; it can also lead to all kinds of problems in their later
life if not handled right), but, as society becomes more advanced
scientifically, and specifically, as the sciences dealing with
human psychology become more exact, this expedient will cease being
necessary.

>
>>The Tan Man
>
>God bless and thanks for you comments,
>
>John
>[e-mail]
>
>[please remember my slow newsfeed.  Have patience]

Gene Battin
[e-mail]
no .sig yet.
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From: [e-mail] (David O Hunt)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: The Pleiadians: Awakening
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Mar 92 06:17:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Masters student, Mechanical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
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In-Reply-To: <[e-mail]>

WHAAAA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA!!!!!!

Whoooo-WHEEEE!

Thanks for the laughs - really needed them!  Great fun, that!



David Hunt - Graduate Slave | My mind is my own.          | Towards both a
Mechanical Engineering      | So are my ideas & opinions. | Palestinian and
Carnegie Mellon University  | <<<Use Golden Rule v2.0>>>  | Jewish homeland!
============================================================================
Email:  [e-mail]        I think, therefore I am paid. (S. Harris)

"You should be furious that polluters are threatening your great-great-
grand children's lives!"---Iroquois chief speaking about the environment.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!decwrl!pa.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!cpdw.enet.dec.com!rosch
From: [e-mail] (Ray Rosch)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: The Pleiadians: Awakening
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Mar 92 15:39:40 GMT
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Organization: The Beef Council
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes...
>
>AWAKENING The Pleiadians
>    Good evening. We are your ancient family. We come from the star system
>The Pleiades. We know ourselves as The Pleiadians and we, eons ago, millions
>of years ago, were your relatives.
    ...

GO BACK TO SLEEP: The Worcesterians
Beware of the Pleiadians!  There fake, phoney and owe it all to the
Worcesterians from the planet A-1.  Don't be taken in by their caramel, syrupy,
sugar-coated, msg-laden message. If you are willing to grind your mind into
ground protine-based terra animal bovine flesh you need us, not them. They
are on the wrong channel. Seth was fired from a Worcesterian garden hose
factory 3 eons ago and is still angry!

Sure - save a few pennies and use Pleiadian sauce and what do you get?  An
imitation, second-best formula which tastes 'funny'! Besides - Worcesterians
could care less about us all being one big star family - all we want is
a fair retail markup! [Why do you think you humans are so greedy!]
You know it took us eons to _build_ this market? First we had to mate with
your proto-females - no easy task! Then we had to wait while you patiently
became hunter-gatherers.  After that we almost lost it when you discovered
agriculture. [Everyone eating beans, barley etc.] Then happily some explorers
let loose a few bovines in what was to become Texas [named, incidentally, after
the biggest Worcesterian on the planet Bubba - a coincidence? NOT!] Then when
things are starting to roll and our investment pays off there's this Cholestrol
thing started by the Pleiadians to cut into our market share. Cholestrol is
a Pleiadian conspiracy!!! We didn't do it.  The whole thing about Dolphins -
do you know what the early Pleiadians evolved into? Flipper! We Worcesterians
still look like we always have - sort of like Santa Claus, Bambi and Barbara
Bush - only thinner.


****
Disclaimer: Opinions expressed do not in any way reflect those of my employer
****
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!watserv1!watdragon!watyew!jdnicoll
From: [e-mail] (James Davis Nicoll)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: The Pleiades Needs Telescopes! (Re: The Pleiadians: Awakening)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Mar 92 16:20:09 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Waterloo
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
    Gibberish deleted

    The star system of the Pleiades has seven stars, six of which we
>believe, you may see from the naked eye.

    Hee hee. Millions of years of residence, and the only members of
that group of stars they know about are the ones *we* can see with the naked
eye from Earth. Pretty poor astronomers, these  Pleiadians. One could be
excused for wondering whether they aren't just the delusion of a terran
ignorant of astronomy...

    Clearly, there's a market in the Pleiades for glasses and telescopes.

                            James Nicoll

Is this stuff about another universe new to the Pleiadian mythos since the
previous appearance? I seem to recall people pointing out the Pleiadians
predate the Pleiades they claim to come from...
Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!anson
From: [e-mail] (Anson Kennedy)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: B-2 UFO
Message-ID: <w#gja![e-mail]>
Date: 30 Mar 92 16:42:08 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 11

Does anyone have any info on Tony Gonsalves' investigation of the "B-2/UFO"?

Thanks.

--

Anson Kennedy
Secretary of the Georgia Skeptics (but don't even THINK I speak for them!)

                  "If I had been the Virgin Mary, I would have said 'No.'"
                                      -Margaret "Stevie" Smith (1902-1971)
Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!payner
From: [e-mail] (Rich Payne)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Abducted while driving?
Message-ID: <x0fj4#[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Mar 92 15:27:51 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <l-bjm0=[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>In article <l-bjm0=[e-mail]>,
>[e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer) writes...
>
>>In article <[e-mail]>
>>[e-mail] writes:
>
>>>*sigh*
>>>"Leading the witness"?
>>>I have heard that expression used in two contexts.  In one context, it was
>>>used to imply that some hypnotist was "planting" suggestions in the subject
>>>under hypnosis.  I DO assume that the person reading this was NOT in a deep
>>>and suggestible hypnotic state at the time he was reading my posting: if he
>>>
>>   Well, since "hypnosis" is mostly bullsh*t, anyway, it doesn't really
>                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>   matter. Read Dr. Robert Baker's book, "Some Call it Hypnosis"; there
>>   is no evidence of a separate and distinct 'hypnotic state', but
>>   people can be suceptible or suggestible at any time, if circumstances
>>   are right.
>
>But I don't have the time, or the technical expertise in psychology to study
>this claim in depth!  Lessee, since the "consensus" of opinion is that
>hypnosis is _real_, I guess I get to call the underlined statement an
>"extraordinary claim"?  Right?
>Gee, when I _try_ to follow your rules, it don't seem to work so good!

You call foul, and I do not see what it is in response to. If anything, I
would think that hypnosis itself sounds more like an "extraordinary claim".
A few points, a recent study (I do not remember where or by who) showed
that subjucts under 'hypnosis' were not able to remember more or with
greater clairity, rather the subjects just tended to want to please the
hypnotist. I recall that the subjects were flashed an image of the back of
a car, the license number was unreadable. And yet, most subjects could
remember a number if asked often enough. I would think that for most things
if you cannot remember it conciously, hypnosis will not bring it out.

>(BTW, I personally _agree_ with your conclusions, I just take umbrage at
>your inconsistent standards for skeptical inquiry.)
>
>>               By saying in essence, "these things (numbers 1 through 5)
>>   often happen to UFO abductees: did they happen to you?", you are
>>   planting in the subject's mind the suggestion that he should search
>>   his memory *very hard* for precisely these things. And if he
>>   manages to convince himself that any of them are true, he now knows
>>   (roughly speaking) what to report!
>>
>>   I realize, of course, that this forum is *not* the right medium
>>   for anyone to conduct such queries, and that Jim was not attempting
>>   to formally do so. I point this out only to illustrate how
>>   easily a person's memories of an incident can become "contaminated"
>>   by extraneous data.
>>
>>>The other context during which "Leading the witness" is used is during
>>>criminal trials.  By your comments I would have to conclude that you would
>>>discredit every rape victim if a doctor, policeman or lawyer questioned the
>>>witness about the attack!  I am sure that some victims of a clear, violent
>>>
>>   As a positive example of how to proceed,
>>
>>   First, get the subject to fully state all memories (and get everything
>>   on tape).
>       ^^^^ should be videotape, see below
>>
>>   Don't say things like, "abductees are often fatigued, were you fatigued?".
>>   Instead, ask "how did you feel at the time?" If you get no useful reply,
>>   ask "what was your energy level at this time? High or low?"
>>
>>   Get the point??!  :)
>
>Well, if the point is to ask questions in such a way as to guarantee that
>the "questionee" picks up no possible "clues" to indicate what the
>"preferred" answers are gonna be, I think your proposed example won't
>do.  Even _animals_ are extremely good at picking up unconscious
>"hints".  People are probably just as good, if not better.
>To avoid giving any hints, you really should get the questioning done
>in a blind manner, by someone who themselves has no idea what kind of
>data you think is significant.  In the December, 1987 issue of OMNI
>magazine is a summary of Pennsylvania psychiatrist Martin T. Orne's
>"rules":
>    "Hypnotists must not have any preconcieved ideas about the
>    subject under discussion; they must have no contact with the
>    subject prior to the session; and they must videotape the
>    proceedings so that not only oral communication but also
>    facial expressions can be reviewed."
>All of these constraints are obviously in place to control unconscious
>"cueing" as much as possible.

Double blind hypnosis? Only if there was some evidence that subject
under hypnosis can recall things they could not normally would this
have any obvious benefit. But it might be a good way to test hypnosis
as a tool.

>[Of course, since Orne must believe that hypnosis is of some use in
>gathering data (otherwise, why care about "rules") he's just a
>"bullsh*tter", to use your words, right? :-) ]
>
>>
>>--
>>
>>        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]
>>
>> Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!
>>
>>     "In the 1970's the world will undergo famines - hundreds of millions
>>     of people are going to starve to death in spite of any crash programs
>>     embarked upon now ... in 1985, when it is calculated [under the most
>>     optimistic scenario] that the major die-back will be over, ..."
>>
>>                       Dr. Paul Ehrlich, "The Population Bomb," 1968
>>
>
>Gene Battin
>[e-mail]
>no .sig yet.

Rich

[e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!orion.oac.uci.edu!hepxvt.ps.uci.edu!cortese
From: [e-mail] (Janis Maria Cortese)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Keywords: Peace Clock
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Mar 92 20:02:45 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of California, Irvine
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (John Emery) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Beth Lung) writes:
>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Janis Maria Cortese) writes:
>>
>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (John Emery) writes:
>>
>>John>Please share what you are referring to, Janis.
>>
>>Janis>Oh, how about "In pain shall you bring forth children.  You shall remain
>>Janis>in subjugation to your husband all your life, but your wishes shall be
>>Janis>for him."
>
>All this is a result of the curse because of our sin.  However, in addition
>to what you quote here another quote out of the Bible says that Jesus
>redeemed us from the curse of the law by paying for our sins (Galatians 3:13).
>
>O Janis, why not rather repent and live.  His arms are open to accept and
>forgive.
>

I don't want to repent.  I like living as I do, and if you think I'm
going to go to hell, then tough shit for you.  I'm not in the market to
do what YOU think I should do.  And just who the hell do youthink you
are to cop such a superior and condescending attitude toward me:  "My
wonderful and perfect god is willing to forgive you for the legions of
sins you have committed through your stupidity and perfidy."

I happen to like my perfidy.  And I really don't care whether his arms
are open or not; I choose not to walk toward them.  So you can take your
snotty drown-me-with-marshmallows attitude and buzz off.  You are
welcome to ask questions and post your opinions on this group.  But the
minute you tell me that my life is fucked up because I don't live it
like you do yours, you have stepped over the line.  I've had enough of
this garbage to last me a lifetime.  Buzz off.

Janis C.

A shift-K sounds good right about now.  I have heard every rant you
could possibly throw at me a million times and don't feel like putting
up with them again.  If I were going to learn something NEW, I'd hang
around in this thread.  But when you've hread one zealous condescending
xtian tell you that your spirituality is a crock, you've heard them all.
Bye!
Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!hellgate.utah.edu!fcom.cc.utah.edu!cc.weber.edu!jtan
From: [e-mail] (THE TAN MAN)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Mar 92 20:05:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Weber State University CS Department
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
(John Emery) writes...
>>>in the heart of the instigator?  If there were peace in the hearts of
>>>people, then we wouldn't have external problems.  There is something wrong
>>
>>    Not necessarily.  If we had Peace AND non-Peace in our hearts,
>>then it would be possible for us to have external problems because
>>the two are at odds with each other, and one must win out, even if
>>only temporarily.  As long as it's the non-Peace side that is in
>>control, we will have external problems.
>
>But why is this non-peace there in the first place?  What drives people
>to hurt or want to hurt other whether through direct violence, words,
>thoughts, or intentions.  Something is wrong.

    Because the Universe consists of what we simplify as
"Good" and "Evil", or "Light" and "Dark", or "Yin" and "Yang",
or "Positive" and "Negative".
    Admittedly, I guess I cannot answer where non-peace and
all of the other negative things come from.  But I can turn
the question around to wonder where all of the peace and good
things of the Universe come from.  Some will immediately say
"God", but is that really true (assuming He exists in the first
place)?  Or is He a _product_ of the Good?  And, besides, even the
LDS (Mormon) religion recognizes that God created the Earth, but
_not_ the Universe, and that there are many Gods, etc.
    How do other religions (and I definitely am including
Gnosticism and Atheism and New Age, etc.) view any or all of
the above?
    Living in Utah kind of limits your knowledge of other
religions/beliefs  8^)   .

>God bless and thanks for you comments,

    Ditto.

The Highest Love and Peace to All

The Tan Man
[e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!tulane!ukma!asuvax!anasaz!qip!morris
From: morris@anasaz (Bob Morris)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Thoughts on ET probabilities
Message-ID: <1992Mar26.165249.25187@anasaz>
Date: 26 Mar 92 16:52:49 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Anasazi, Inc.  Phoenix, Az
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David Plumpton) writes:
[stuff deleted]
>On the other hand, E.T.s with technology advanced enough to get in totally
>undetected (consider the number of people world-wide searching for new
>comets), they would probably have seen so much of the universe as to be
>completely uninterested in us.

Have you ever looked at ants crawling around?  Have you ever looked at
a bacterial slime under a microscope? Have you ever looked at the sky?
Just because we're far advanced relative to some of the other species
doesn't mean we're not interested in them.  We are continually stretching
our ability to explore whatever and wherever we can.

Now I admit that there may be many lifeforms with the ability but not the
interest in exploring us.  We may never know of their existence.  But to
say that ALL lifeforms are uninterested in us just doesn't make sense.

I'd say the biggest factor in life from different planets coming in contact
with each other is density.  Let's look at the density of species with the
ability to escape gravity that we know about.  In a sphere centered at the
center of Earth and a radius of 10 light-years, the density of such species
is (very) roughly 1 in 8.5 * 10^41 cubic miles.  To put these numbers into
perspective, all of the humans now living on this planet would fit into one
(1) cubic mile.  Let's face it folks, there aren't very many of us and we're
pretty far apart.

Bob Morris
aka [e-mail]  (new address)
anasaz![e-mail] (old address still works)
My opinions only, of course...
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!darwin.sura.net!ukma!asuvax!anasaz!qip!morris
From: morris@anasaz (Bob Morris)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Re: Elapsed Time near c (was Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Visitations)
Message-ID: <1992Mar26.221104.5109@anasaz>
Date: 26 Mar 92 22:11:04 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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>James Davis Nicoll writes:
>>
>>    Note that if you *do* get up near C, the interstellar medium presents
>>a significant problem, as you plow through it. From the ship POV, it's
>>getting fried by a relativistic beam of particles...
>>
>
Then Anthony E Bible writes:
>    Interesting.  I hadn't thought of that.  Seems like a potential source
>of usuable energy.
>
So I wrote:

Sounds a lot like sticking a pinwheel out of a moving car and driving a
generator with it.  Sure, you get energy out, but no more than the engine
is putting into the wheels.  I'd recommend streamlining your ship to
minimize the drag instead.

Bob Morris
aka [e-mail]  (new address)
anasaz![e-mail] (old address still works)
My opinions only, of course...
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!orstcs!orstcs!usenetusenet
From: [e-mail] (John Holeman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Mar 92 23:53:47 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Oregon State University, Computer Science Dept.
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
>(John Emery) writes...
>>>>in the heart of the instigator?  If there were peace in the hearts of
>>>>people, then we wouldn't have external problems.  There is something wrong
>>>
>>>    Not necessarily.  If we had Peace AND non-Peace in our hearts,
>>>then it would be possible for us to have external problems because
>>>the two are at odds with each other, and one must win out, even if
>>>only temporarily.  As long as it's the non-Peace side that is in
>>>control, we will have external problems.
>>
>>But why is this non-peace there in the first place?  What drives people
>>to hurt or want to hurt other whether through direct violence, words,
>>thoughts, or intentions.  Something is wrong.
>
>    Because the Universe consists of what we simplify as
>"Good" and "Evil", or "Light" and "Dark", or "Yin" and "Yang",
>or "Positive" and "Negative".
>    Admittedly, I guess I cannot answer where non-peace and
>all of the other negative things come from.  But I can turn
>the question around to wonder where all of the peace and good
>things of the Universe come from.  Some will immediately say
>"God", but is that really true (assuming He exists in the first
>place)?  Or is He a _product_ of the Good?  And, besides, even the
>LDS (Mormon) religion recognizes that God created the Earth, but
>_not_ the Universe, and that there are many Gods, etc.
>    How do other religions (and I definitely am including
>Gnosticism and Atheism and New Age, etc.) view any or all of
>the above?
>    Living in Utah kind of limits your knowledge of other
>religions/beliefs  8^)   .
>

   I think that the fundamental point is being missed here.  All of these peopleare trying to define peace, good, and evil in terms of a supernatural phenomenonor being.  These things are intrinsic to human psychology.  It is obvious to me
that the thing which causes unrest and chaos in our society is large numbers.
When you are with you friends, you don't have large disagreements.  And if
you do, they aren't hard to work out.  But any group larger that about 50
will have problems.  Thats why there is so much dirty campaigning for
government offices...the canidates are trying to impress too many people.  Thatswhy there are so many conflicts internationally.  There are too many people
trying to deal with each other.  Until we can deal, individually with large
amounts of people, and until every single person has all of his or her basic
needs(food, water, shelter, companionship, etc) provided for, we will NEVER
see world peace.

JH
Path: ns-mx!uunet!psinntp!visix!news
From: [e-mail] (Amanda Walker)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Mar 92 22:59:17 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
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[e-mail] (John Emery) writes:
> Do you trust in Allah, Amanda?  Is that what brings you peace?

Yes, since for me Allah is just another name for God.  Even if you don't
think that counts, there are nonetheless millions of people who *do*
trust in Allah and are brought peace by it.

> So there is a right path, then?  Don't you believe there are many
> paths?  According this quote there is a right path.  Is that what
> brings you peace, following the right path?  Please explain why you
> believe in a right path and describe what it is.

I gather this is an attempt to trap me with logic :).  However, the two
are not mutually exclusive.  Example: How do I get from my office to
the outside?"

The right path depends a whole lot on where you are standing, after all...

> But awfully small parts.

It all depends on where you look.  Seek, and you shall find...


Amanda Walker                              [e-mail]
Visix Software Inc.                    ...!uupsi!visix.com!amanda
--
"You're making the same mistake that I did -- assuming people are capable of
 figuring out obvious behavior when in practice they're not" -- Eric Wiseblatt
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From: [e-mail] (Rolf Meier)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: The Pleiadians: Awakening
Message-ID: <11304@augustus>
Date: 30 Mar 92 21:08:39 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Mitel. Kanata (Ontario). Canada.
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Good stuff.

Inconsistent, but amusing nevertheless.

_________________________________________________________________________
Rolf Meier                        Mitel Corporation
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!stl!crosfield!imt
From: [e-mail] (ian taylor)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Alien Gifs?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 30 Mar 92 16:54:32 GMT
Reply-To: [e-mail] (ian taylor)
Organization: Crosfield Electronics, Hemel Hempstead, United Kingdom.
Lines: 12

Our newsfeed was down for a couple of weeks, and I recall hearing some
discussion regarding Gif pictures of an Alien corpse which had been posted.
Could anyone repost these or was I being totally duped..?
Thanks people,

Ian
_______________________________________________________________________________
| Ian Taylor (x4097)    | The opinions expressed | "I've been living off of   |
| Crosfield Electronics    | here are not mine.     |  grass, and the drippings  |
| Hemel Hempstead, UK    | God came to me in     |  from my ceiling, it's OK  |
|            | a vision and told me   |  to eat fish 'cos they     |
| [e-mail]    | to do it.         |  don't have any feelings"  |
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: exploding heads?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 31 Mar 92 05:55:03 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Lines: 9

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
> (christopher williams) writes:
> can people's heads REALLY explode? i heard this on the news yesterday.


only if your name is John F Kennedy...:-)


Big Al
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From: [e-mail] (David Canzi)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: The Pleiadians: Awakening
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 31 Mar 92 06:29:56 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Effete Corps of Impudent Snobs
Lines: 5
Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:9936 alt.alien.visitors:5146 sci.skeptic:22270

Electric monks and Pleiadians come from the same place -- the Pleiades.
Coincidence?  I think not.

--
David Canzi
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From: [e-mail] (Beth Lung)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 31 Mar 92 07:10:10 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Yea, right...
Lines: 56
Xref: ns-mx alt.pagan:13930 talk.religion.newage:9938 alt.paranormal:4712 alt.alien.visitors:5147

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
>(John Emery) writes...

John>But why is this non-peace there in the first place?  What drives people
John>to hurt or want to hurt other whether through direct violence, words,
John>thoughts, or intentions.  Something is wrong.

Tan>    Because the Universe consists of what we simplify as
Tan>"Good" and "Evil", or "Light" and "Dark", or "Yin" and "Yang",
Tan>or "Positive" and "Negative".

Perhapse here in lies the problem... is there actually a duality? Must
one exist?
Perhapse people do 'bad' things because they have not yet experienced
these things in their time on this plane (Earth). Of course, this
presumes that you believe in reincarnation. -smile-
Could we all be here for the sole purpose of gaining knowledge through
experience? Please note, I am not condoning theft, murder, rape, etc.;
I am soly trying to raise other possiblilities.

Maybe we created this sense of duality so we, as humans, could
comprehend this... duality puts things into nice neat pigon-holes.
Now, how to we stop believing the duality? How can we move beyond it?
Is it possible to do so? To these questions, I have no answers. It
could be that the collective mind (everyone's thinking) must reject
the idea of duality. (Just as if you say 'this wall doesn't exist and
convince everyone that the wall doesn't exist. Theoretically, the wall
would cease to exist)

Or am I just off in half crazed ramblings? -smile-

Tan>    Admittedly, I guess I cannot answer where non-peace and
Tan>all of the other negative things come from.  But I can turn
Tan>the question around to wonder where all of the peace and good
Tan>things of the Universe come from.  Some will immediately say
Tan>"God", but is that really true (assuming He exists in the first
Tan>place)?  Or is He a _product_ of the Good?  And, besides, even the
Tan>LDS (Mormon) religion recognizes that God created the Earth, but
Tan>_not_ the Universe, and that there are many Gods, etc.

It is possible that all dieties are products of good/evil. And for
humankind to better comprehend this good/evil, the dieties came into
being.

Ok... I'll stop my ramblings. -smile-

    May you walk in peace,
        Beth

--
                  Beth Lung           [e-mail]

  How far must suffering and misery go before we see that even in the day of
  vast cities and powerful machines, the good earth is our mother and that if
  we destroy her, we destroy ourselves?  -Paul Bigelow Sears
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From: [e-mail] (Julian F Waldby)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,misc.test,alt.exploding.kibo,talk.bizarre,alt.religion.kibology,alt.personals,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 31 Mar 92 21:11:50 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (The News Administrator)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Julian F Waldby)
Organization: Rose-Hulman Institute of Technology
Lines: 96
Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2540 misc.test:14446 alt.exploding.kibo:99 talk.bizarre:53802 alt.religion.kibology:1392 alt.personals:26646 alt.alien.visitors:5148
Nntp-Posting-Host: o231-26.nextwork.rose-hulman.edu

In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
> [e-mail] (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes:
>
> >In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
> >>[e-mail] (Kevin L. McBride) writes:
> >>
> >>>[e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
> >>
> >>>> In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (barry.o.olson) writes:
> >>>> >In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (Russ Taylor) writes:
> >>>> >> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James
'Kibo' Parry) writes:
> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed]
> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS.
> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH.  I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD
STOP IT.
> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*.
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> >
> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only
after you
> >>>> >> added your ten cents?  A thousand-degree flame on you!
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!)
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth?
> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich
> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width.
> >>
> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it?
> >>>> >because he made a paste of it
> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it.
> >>
> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor
> >>>> >he never was a sailor
> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer.
> >>
> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE?  PLEASE EXERCISE
> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT.
> >>
> >>>Okay.
> >>
> >>
> >>    Come on guys, I think he means it.  Don't follow up to this.
>
> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious.
>
> >Go ahead and follow up.
>
> >Or kill me.
>
> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess.
>
> >>--
> >>[e-mail]      | The meek shall inherit the earth,
> >>[e-mail] |     and the wise keep moving on...
> >>Rev. M @P.O. Box 156     O
|-----------------------------------------
> >> Amherst, NY  14226      +    |Ask me about the Secret Society!
Shhhh!
>
> >~ibo
> >--
> >[e-mail]
> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming  305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139
> >(  the  nonibo  -ibo  )  [phone] [home]  [phone] [office]
>
>     No!  Don't follow up to this!  Whatever you do, _don't_ press
> that "f" button!  It's a sin!  It's a sin!  This is against the gods
> of bandwidth and all that is wholly!  See what you do!  You waste and
> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens!  Nay, until the
> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the
> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up!  My
> _GOD_!  How can you even think it!  How can you dream it and still
> remain sane?!?!?  How can it be?!?!?!?!  Gah!!!!
>
> --
> [e-mail]      | The meek shall inherit the earth,
> [e-mail] |     and the wise keep moving on...
> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156     O    |-----------------------------------------
>  Amherst, NY  14226      +    |Ask me about the Secret Society!  Shhhh!

What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion?  I
missed the earlier parts.
--


Boku mo kitigai na gaikokogo no kaki ga arimasu.  Boku o tabete kudasai.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!overload.lbl.gov!dog.ee.lbl.gov!hellgate.utah.edu!fcom.cc.utah.edu!cc.weber.edu!jtan
From: [e-mail] (THE TAN MAN)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 31 Mar 92 22:33:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Weber State University CS Department
Lines: 57
Xref: ns-mx alt.pagan:13953 talk.religion.newage:9950 alt.paranormal:4716 alt.alien.visitors:5149
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41

In article <[e-mail]>, Beth Lung
<[e-mail]> writes...
>Tan>    Because the Universe consists of what we simplify as
>Tan>"Good" and "Evil", or "Light" and "Dark", or "Yin" and "Yang",
>Tan>or "Positive" and "Negative".
>
>Perhapse here in lies the problem... is there actually a duality? Must
>one exist?

    No, but that is what "we simplify [it] as".

>Perhapse people do 'bad' things because they have not yet experienced
>these things in their time on this plane (Earth). Of course, this
>presumes that you believe in reincarnation. -smile-
>Could we all be here for the sole purpose of gaining knowledge through
>experience? Please note, I am not condoning theft, murder, rape, etc.;
>I am soly trying to raise other possiblilities.

    I don't know about the "sole purpose", but gaining knowledge
is definitely one of the purposes, I believe.

>Maybe we created this sense of duality so we, as humans, could
>comprehend this... duality puts things into nice neat pigon-holes.

    Exactly.

>Now, how to we stop believing the duality? How can we move beyond it?
>Is it possible to do so? To these questions, I have no answers. It
>could be that the collective mind (everyone's thinking) must reject
>the idea of duality. (Just as if you say 'this wall doesn't exist and
>convince everyone that the wall doesn't exist. Theoretically, the wall
>would cease to exist)

    This moving away from duality is basically a falling
into the realm of relativism (not that there's anything wrong
with that, mind you!).

>Or am I just off in half crazed ramblings? -smile-

    Maybe quarter-crazed ...  8^)

>It is possible that all dieties are products of good/evil. And for
>humankind to better comprehend this good/evil, the dieties came into
>being.

    Yes, this certainly seems true.  As many have pointed
out, even Jesus has moments of anger toward those who do not
believe in Him.
    Good and Evil come mixed in all things/people.  It's up to us
to sort out what (we believe) is "Good" and "Evil".

Thoughts.

The Highest Love and Peace to All

The Tan Man
[e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (William Henry Timmins)
Newsgroups: alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,alt.alien.visitors,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: Creating Peace On Earth by 2000 !
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 31 Mar 92 23:57:22 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]>
Organization: Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 14
Xref: ns-mx alt.pagan:13956 alt.paranormal:4717 alt.alien.visitors:5150 talk.religion.newage:9952
In-Reply-To: <[e-mail]>

>Perhapse here in lies the problem... is there actually a duality? Must
>one exist?

I have always been of the opinion that the Western reliance on dualities
is a silly, constricting thing. I don't believe in dualities. I see them
merely as a perceptive ploy.

You can make three sides to something, or four, or five, or dispense
with 'sides' altogether.

My advice is to experiment with different ways of looking at things, try
to rearrange your thoughts around a different base. It is enlightening.

-Me
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From: [e-mail] (Matthew Fields)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,misc.test,alt.exploding.kibo,talk.bizarre,alt.religion.kibology,alt.personals,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Apr 92 02:09:02 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Mr. News)
Organization: University of Michigan EECS Dept., Ann Arbor
Lines: 97
Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2541 misc.test:14463 alt.exploding.kibo:100 talk.bizarre:53843 alt.religion.kibology:1393 alt.personals:26675 alt.alien.visitors:5151

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Julian F Waldby) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>
>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
>> [e-mail] (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes:
>>
>> >In article <[e-mail]>
>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
>> >>[e-mail] (Kevin L. McBride) writes:
>> >>
>> >>>[e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>> >>
>> >>>> In article <[e-mail]>
>[e-mail] (barry.o.olson) writes:
>> >>>> >In article <[e-mail]>,
>[e-mail] (Russ Taylor) writes:
>> >>>> >> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James
>'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed]
>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS.
>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper.
>> >>>> >> >
>> >>>> >> >
>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH.  I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD
>STOP IT.
>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*.
>> >>>> >> >
>> >>>> >> >
>> >>>> >> >
>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only
>after you
>> >>>> >> added your ten cents?  A thousand-degree flame on you!
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!)
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth?
>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich
>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width.
>> >>
>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it?
>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it
>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it.
>> >>
>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor
>> >>>> >he never was a sailor
>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer.
>> >>
>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE?  PLEASE EXERCISE
>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT.
>> >>
>> >>>Okay.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>    Come on guys, I think he means it.  Don't follow up to this.
>>
>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious.
>>
>> >Go ahead and follow up.
>>
>> >Or kill me.
>>
>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess.
>>
>> >>--
>> >>[e-mail]      | The meek shall inherit the earth,
>> >>[e-mail] |     and the wise keep moving on...
>> >>Rev. M @P.O. Box 156     O
>|-----------------------------------------
>> >> Amherst, NY  14226      +    |Ask me about the Secret Society!
>Shhhh!
>>
>> >~ibo
>> >--
>> >[e-mail]
>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming  305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139
>> >(  the  nonibo  -ibo  )  [phone] [home]  [phone] [office]
>>
>>     No!  Don't follow up to this!  Whatever you do, _don't_ press
>> that "f" button!  It's a sin!  It's a sin!  This is against the gods
>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly!  See what you do!  You waste and
>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens!  Nay, until the
>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the
>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up!  My
>> _GOD_!  How can you even think it!  How can you dream it and still
>> remain sane?!?!?  How can it be?!?!?!?!  Gah!!!!
>>
>> --
>> [e-mail]      | The meek shall inherit the earth,
>> [e-mail] |     and the wise keep moving on...
>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156     O    |-----------------------------------------
>>  Amherst, NY  14226      +    |Ask me about the Secret Society!  Shhhh!
>
>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion?  I
>missed the earlier parts.
>--
>
>
>Boku mo kitigai na gaikokogo no kaki ga arimasu.  Boku o tabete kudasai.
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: So you really want peace???
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Apr 92 15:11:09 GMT
Organization: Penn State University
Lines: 138

Path:
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com!ed_l1
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage
Subject: So you really want peace???
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Mar 92 05:01:21 GMT
Article-I.D.: verifone.1992Mar24.190121.3952
Organization: VeriFone Inc., Honolulu HI
Lines: 126

The following is posted here as a service.  It may be copied
or shared on an unlimited basis, but not sold.

====================================================================

So, you're really interested in creating peace?

Q:      How do you change the minds of an entire population (generation)?

A:      One at a time.

The by-words for peace in this generation:

        "Cooperative
                Convinced
                        Committed"


Meditating, medicating, vegetating,...
Philosophy, psychology, technology...
Science, religion, physics, metaphysics, crystals...
Enlightenment, empowerment, entrapment, education,....
All these things won't hurt The Cause, but they have had
their chance and they didn't help much, either.

        How do we attain Peace?

The opposite of Peace is thought to be War.  However, we can have
no war, and still not have peace!  War is just an extreme form of
competition: "We are better than you (or we want to be) and so
we're going to kill/wipe out/subjugate/enslave/control you!"

Or: "We (or I) want something that you have (land, money, power)
and I can't get it unless I get it from you!"

"I WANT TO BE AS GOOD AS OR BETTER THAN YOU, AND I
WILL STOP AT NOTHING IN ORDER TO DO IT!"

Competition is the root of war and the antithesis of peace.
Cooperation is the root of peace and the antithesis of war.

Cooperation.  Working together.  Helping each other.

When enough people (or anything else) cooperate, a force is
created that cannot be withstood by all of the competition in the world.
"If you can't lick 'em, join 'em."
Eventually, we would all be forced to cooperate.

Disagreements wouldn't go away, we'd still have differences of opinion,
but by cooperating, sharing our opinions, agreeing to use what works best,
we can be, make and do the best.

Q:      Where do we start?

A:      With yourself.

Convince yourself that cooperation is a better strategy than competition.
Commit yourself to The Cause of Peace through Cooperation.
Cooperate with others to make the Dream a Reality.

Then, find just two other people.  Tell them about your commitment,
convince them that cooperation is better than competition, and let
them cooperate with you: to make peace, equality, justice, freedom,
Do it today.

Tomorrow, have them find two people that haven't committed, and so on.
(Like a human/eternal chain letter -- a Peace Pyramid Scam).

Day one: 1 person committed to Peace through Cooperation
Day 2:  1+2 = 3
Day 3:  1+2+4 = 7
Day 4:  1+2+4+8 = 15
Day 4:  +16 = 31
Day 5:  +32 = 63
Day 6:  +64 = 127
Day 7:  +128 = 255
Day 8:  +256 = 511
Day 9:  +512 = 1023
Day 10: +1024 = 2047
Day 11: +2048 = 4095 (let's round it out...)
Day 12: +4000 = 8000
Day 13: +8000 = 16000
Day 14: 32,000
Day 15: 64,000
Day 16: 128,000
Day 17: 256,000
Day 18: 512,000 (round it DOWN again...)
Day 19: 1 Million!
Day 20: 2 M
Day 21: 4 M
Day 22: 8 M
Day 23: 16 M
Day 24: 32 M
Day 25: 64 M
Day 26: 128 M
Day 27: 256 M
Day 28: 512 M
Day 29: 1 Billion!
Day 30: 2 Billion!
Day 31: 4 Billion
The beginning of the next month would see all the world convinced.

Well, that's optomistic, cause we'd have some hold-outs who
wouldn't believe it and then do nothing, and some zealots who
will go out and get THREE people and they'd both mess up our
figures!  But still...  What if it even took THREE months, or
a YEAR?  And what if we still got 10% holdouts, or 15%?  So what?!

So what are we waiting for?   Join the rest of us.

My bumper sticker:

-------------------------------
|   I'm Committed, are you?   |
|  Peace through Cooperation  |
-------------------------------

======================================================================
End of message

--
===========================================================================
|| Ed L'Esperance - P.O. Box 4635, Kane`ohe, Hawai`i 96744  U.S.A. Earth ||
||   Anthropologist, Writer, Editor    -*-     IN%"[e-mail]"   ||
||   Opinions Copyright (c) 1992 Ed L'Esperance.  All Rights Reserved    ||
===========================================================================
Path: ns-mx!uunet!nic.unh.edu!kepler.unh.edu!mjs
From: [e-mail] (Speaker to Robots)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,misc.test,alt.exploding.kibo,talk.bizarre,alt.religion.kibology,alt.personals,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: The cascade from Hell rides once again...
Summary: This must cease!  You disgrrraceful vagabonds!
Keywords: incontinence
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 1 Apr 92 19:08:01 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: ScreechHog Utilities, Inc.
Lines: 114
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X-Mjs12: Message

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Julian F Waldby) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>
>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
>> [e-mail] (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes:
>>
>> >In article <[e-mail]>
>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
>> >>[e-mail] (Kevin L. McBride) writes:
>> >>
>> >>>[e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>> >>
>> >>>> In article <[e-mail]>
>[e-mail] (barry.o.olson) writes:
>> >>>> >In article <[e-mail]>,
>[e-mail] (Russ Taylor) writes:
>> >>>> >> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James
>'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed]
>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS.
>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper.
Berate the waylaid napper!
>> >>>> >> >
>> >>>> >> >
>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH.  I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD
>STOP IT.
>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*.
>> >>>> >> >
>> >>>> >> >
>> >>>> >> >
>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only
>after you
>> >>>> >> added your ten cents?  A thousand-degree flame on you!
Som'thin' 'bout that _bother_ you, son?
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!)
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth?
>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich
>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width.
Eva Braun gave head, bitch!
>> >>
>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it?
>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it
>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it.
Then Lucy laid waste of it.
>> >>
>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor
>> >>>> >he never was a sailor
>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer.
Ate beaver, then grew pailer.
>> >>
>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE?  PLEASE EXERCISE
>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT.
Bugger off, mate!
>> >>
>> >>>Okay.
And the little dog, too!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>    Come on guys, I think he means it.  Don't follow up to this.
Aww! All _right_!
>>
>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious.
>>
>> >Go ahead and follow up.
>>
>> >Or kill me.
>>
>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess.
>>
>> >>--
>> >>[e-mail]      | The meek shall inherit the earth,
>> >>[e-mail] |     and the wise keep moving on...
>> >>Rev. M @P.O. Box 156     O
>|-----------------------------------------
>> >> Amherst, NY  14226      +    |Ask me about the Secret Society!
>Shhhh!
>>
>> >~ibo
>> >--
>> >[e-mail]
>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming  305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139
>> >(  the  nonibo  -ibo  )  [phone] [home]  [phone] [office]
>>
>>     No!  Don't follow up to this!  Whatever you do, _don't_ press
>> that "f" button!  It's a sin!  It's a sin!  This is against the gods
>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly!  See what you do!  You waste and
>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens!  Nay, until the
>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the
>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up!  My
>> _GOD_!  How can you even think it!  How can you dream it and still
>> remain sane?!?!?  How can it be?!?!?!?!  Gah!!!!
>>
>> --
>> [e-mail]      | The meek shall inherit the earth,
>> [e-mail] |     and the wise keep moving on...
>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156     O    |-----------------------------------------
>>  Amherst, NY  14226      +    |Ask me about the Secret Society!  Shhhh!
>
>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion?  I
>missed the earlier parts.

Nothing's going on here!  Remember, there is no kibble (or something like
that.)
>--
>
>
>Boku mo kitigai na gaikokogo no kaki ga arimasu.  Boku o tabete kudasai.

--
/*------------------------------------.------------------------------------*\
|                 Nemo                |                omeN                 |
|                                     |                                     |
\*[e-mail]_________________|_________________ude.hnu.relpek@sjm_*/
Path: ns-mx!uunet!math.fu-berlin.de!zrz.tu-berlin.de!harti
From: [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,comp.graphics,alt.paranormal
Subject: New UFO-sighting color GIF-pics !
Summary: ufo
Keywords: ufo
Message-ID: <harti.702176684@tubue>
Date: 2 Apr 92 01:04:44 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (News  Manager)
Organization: ZRZ/TU-Berlin
Lines: 23
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5154 sci.space:28659 comp.graphics:18268 alt.paranormal:4723
Nntp-Posting-Host: mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de

Hi to all UFO-interested researchers,
I just uploaded a couple of new UFO-sighting color GIF-pics to the new
UFO-pic-FTP-site at phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17).

They are in the directory /pub/incoming or /pub/ufo_and_space_pics

I did scan these pics from the book from Ed and Francis Walter:
UFOs, es gibt sie. (German Edition, ISBN-#: 3-426-26463-3)

I think these are the best color UFO-sighting pics now available, or do You
know better pictures from other real sightings ?

Also I have uploaded 2 pics from the Maria Popovich book:
UFO-GLASNOST.
One is a GIF-pic of the recovered body of an humanoid alien from the Roswell-
ufo-crash in 1947 and the other pic is a disc-shaped UFO photographed over
a houseroof.

Please download the pics and post me your view or additional infos.

Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for
Decentral Energy Research
email to: [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!ames!nsisrv!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Mike Bur)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,misc.test,alt.exploding.kibo,talk.bizarre,alt.religion.kibology,alt.personals,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Apr 92 01:58:14 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet)
Followup-To: alt.sewing
Organization: NASA/GSFC code 923
Lines: 59
Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2561 misc.test:14512 alt.exploding.kibo:103 talk.bizarre:53934 alt.religion.kibology:1419 alt.personals:26755 alt.alien.visitors:5155
Nntp-Posting-Host: ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Matthew Fields) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Julian F Waldby) writes:
>>In article <[e-mail]>
>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
>>> [e-mail] (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes:
>>> >In article <[e-mail]>
>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
>>> >>[e-mail] (Kevin L. McBride) writes:
>>> >>>[e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>> >>>> In article <[e-mail]>
>>[e-mail] (barry.o.olson) writes:
>>> >>>> >In article <[e-mail]>,
>>[e-mail] (Russ Taylor) writes:
>>> >>>> >> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James
>>'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed]
>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS.
>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper.
>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH.  I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT.
>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*.
>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you
>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents?  A thousand-degree flame on you!
>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!)
>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth?
>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich
>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width.
>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it?
>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it
>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it.
>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor
>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor
>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer.
>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE?  PLEASE EXERCISE
>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT.
>>> >>>Okay.
>>> >>    Come on guys, I think he means it.  Don't follow up to this.
>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious.
>>> >Go ahead and follow up.
>>> >Or kill me.
>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess.
>>Shhhh!
>>> >[e-mail]
>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming  305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139
>>> >(  the  nonibo  -ibo  )  [phone] [home]  [phone] [office]
>>>     No!  Don't follow up to this!  Whatever you do, _don't_ press
>>> that "f" button!  It's a sin!  It's a sin!  This is against the gods
>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly!  See what you do!  You waste and
>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens!  Nay, until the
>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the
>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up!  My
>>> _GOD_!  How can you even think it!  How can you dream it and still
>>> remain sane?!?!?  How can it be?!?!?!?!  Gah!!!!
>>> [e-mail]      | The meek shall inherit the earth,
>>> [e-mail] |     and the wise keep moving on...
>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156     O    |-----------------------------------------
>>>  Amherst, NY  14226      +    |Ask me about the Secret Society!  Shhhh!
>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion?  I
>>missed the earlier parts.
There.  No more wasted "Bandwidth"
Path: ns-mx!uunet!microsoft!jeffc
From: [e-mail] (Jeff Carey)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.drugs,alt.psychoactives
Subject: Re: A Message from Psilocybin
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Apr 92 03:43:30 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Microsoft Corp.
Lines: 20
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5156 alt.drugs:24355 alt.psychoactives:841

>
>    While the average user consumes 2 g of 'shrooms, know that all of
>that biomass is *not* psilocybin.  The guy that you were responding to was
>quite accurate in his estimation that the average dose of *psilocybin* is
>on the order of 10 mg.  Know that 2 g of refined psilocybin would send you
>tripping balls into unreality for the short time that you lived after
>consuming such a voluminous amount.
>            Just a friendly reminder...

With the Oss & Oeric book right in front of me, I offer a supporting quote:
"A dose of about 10-12 milligrams of psilocybin, or about 5 g. dry weight
of mushrooms, or 50 g. wet weight, is sufficient to manifest the full
spectrum of hallucinogenic effects in a 160 lb. adult.  These effects include
visual and auditory hallucinations, extreme hilarity, distortions of time and
space perception, and a sense of emotional detachment from the environment.
Less marked effects can be detected at doses as low as 4 mg., which is about
2-3 dried mushrooms.  Fresh mushrooms seem to be somewhat stronger than
dried ones.
--
JeffCarey,[e-mail],{uunet,uw-beaver,sun,sco,decvax}!microsoft!jeffc
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!sun.rhrk.uni-kl.de!efes.physik.uni-kl.de!kring
From: [e-mail] (Thomas Kettenring)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What would it take for you...(WAS: Abducted while driving?)
Keywords: Your criteria; abduction; proof
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 31 Mar 92 12:31:25 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <4g=[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: FB Physik, Universitaet Kaiserslautern, Germany
Lines: 127

I accidentally posted this to the newsgroup "Re: Abducted while driving?"
instead of alien.visitors, because someone had set
"Followup-To: Re: Abducted while driving?"
So I post it again.

(With "Followup-To" you set the newsgroups where you want the followups
to go, not the name of the old thread you want to follow.)

Jim Hawtree wrote:
[..]
>>>Jim Hawtree - also a hardnosed skeptic, but one who has come across several
>>>incidents that cannot be written off.  <[e-mail]>

I wrote:
>>Surely you mean: incidents that he couldn't find a way to write off.

Jim writes:
>No, I mean that in certain cases that I am well-acquainted with, I have ran
>out of comfortable explanations.

That's exactly what I said.  I'm a bit of a pedant, and I just wanted to
say that there is a difference between "I have no explanation" and
"there can't be an explanation".  Of course you know this, but I really
don't understand why one has to jump on the "alien visitors" theory
(of all things) every time some unexplained phenomenon appears.
Is it because nobody knows how to exclude this possibility, so that it
*has to* remain?

>In these cases, I cannot ascribe the events
>to:
>1)sloppy observation on the part of the witness;
>2) lack of intelligence on the part of the witness;
>3) desire for attention;
>4) meteorological phenomena;
>5) swamp gas, the planet Venus in the sky, etc.;
>6) history of lying;
>7) mental instability;
>8) petite mal, minor stroke, drug use;
>9) unusual optical effects, such as nonlinear reflections from windows;
>10) practical jokes or fraud;
>11) phosphenes;
>12) hallucinations due to lack of sleep, extreme stress, etc.;
>13) any disorders found in the DSM-III after examination by SEVERAL
>psychiatrists;
>Plus, the presence of several circumstances, generally including:
>1) presence of shock and/or disorientation, objectively observable, on the
>part of the witness;
>2) presence of most, or all the criteria for PTSD (post-traumatic stress
>disorder);
>3) subjectively long interval over which the event occurred (i.e. not a
>momentary lapse);
>4) lack of scripted, expected or fantasized details, or complete violation of
>all expectactions of what such an event would be like.

Quite a long list, but you forgot birds, planes, balloons, satellites,
and people who make hoaxes by building saucers to frighten passers-by.
Probably these don't fit your unexplained cases too, but it shows
that one just *can't* think of everything.  This is what was discussed
some weeks ago as "Alibi Mentality":  the Holmes method ("Eliminate all the
possibilities but one, and that one, no matter how improbable, is the case,")
doesn't work if one is not Sherlock Holmes, since Holmes' world was specially
constructed for him.
BTW, what is "etc." in 5)?

>Of course, many of the following are only possible to determine with someone
>one knows quite well.  Of course, an actor or schizophrenic might put on a
>very convincing simulacrum; but the above just does not happen without a cause,
>and occam's razor starts to cut uncomfortably in the direction of the alien
>visitor hypothesis, leaving me with a feeling not unlike a Christian Scientist
>with appendicitis...   :-)

Occam's razor can only be applied if you have two hypotheses, one of which
makes more assumptions than the other.  Here you have only one hypothesis
(the "alien visitors" one) which makes a lot of assumptions:
 -there is life on neighboring planets
 -it is intelligent life
 -they are technologically advanced
 -they can build starships for interstellar flight
 -they come to Earth
 -they do nothing here besides frightening passers-by, making circles
  in corn fields, contacting secret societies, killing JFK, and
  pursue people with Usenet account.  (Please note that I didn't
  say they do these things but only that they do nothing else)

I really don't see Occam approving of that.

[paragraphs about rape vs. abduction and usual "True Believers"
talk omitted]

>BY THE WAY:  What is the minimum sort of proof that you would need to experince
>for you to conclude that intelligent aliens really existed, and abducted
>people, and subjected them to some sort of (unknown, perhaps medical) tests?

There is no minimum.  This whole thing is not a yes-no business,
where I say "Now I believe it" at a certain point, but there are
many stages from "No, this is too absurd" to "That is the most
reasonable explanation".

I could now invent a scenario involving aliens and me, but that
wouldn't be helpful, since exactly this scenario is very unlikely,
independent of the scenario.

>I would suggest that an experience that was 1) extremely intense in degree;
>2) would last over an hour; and 3) have effects of some sort that would be
>observable by me after the "event" in an objective fashion, but not have a
>natural explanation.  Would you consider this necessary and sufficient \
>minimum proof for you? [..]

1) No, intense experiences cause emotions and don't improve one's
   capability of making observations.  (And no, I am not Mr. Spock.)
2) I don't know whether this is important.
3) Yes, that would help.

My point is that you seem to think that lack of explanations
points to alien visitors, but lack of explanations in my opinion
points to "We don't know".  As I said before in talk.origins:
>[..] there are two possibilities:
>1) Put up with the fact that there is no explanation yet, and search
>   for one.
>2) Invent one.
>
>The scientific approach is 1), not 2).

--
-Caddy--(thomas kettenring, 2 dan, kaiserslautern, germany)-----
The question of whether the electron is a wave or a particle
has a clear and definite answer:  No.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo
From: [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic
Subject: UFO-pics,what do You think about them?
Summary: ufo
Keywords: ufo
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Apr 92 10:47:10 GMT
Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System
Lines: 31
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5158 sci.space:28680 alt.paranormal:4726 sci.skeptic:22349

Hi,

I have placed some new UFO-sighting-GIF-pics at the UFO-ftp-site at
phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17)
/pub/incoming   or   /pub/ufo_and_space_pics

These are from the 1987 Gulf Breeze sightings from the Ed and Francis Walter's
book: UFOs, es gibt sie ! (German Edition, ISBN: 3-426-26463-3)
These are color GIF-pics !

They are named ed*.gif  .

There are also 2 pics from the Maria Popovich book : UFO-Glasnost
alien.gif and ufohouse.gif

By the way, these two books is a "must read" for UFO-investigators !

Please let me  know, what You all thing about them.

Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for
Decentral Energy Research
email to: [e-mail]


--

*******************************************************************************
*  Stefan Hartmann       This is how to contact me:                           *
*  EMAIL: [e-mail]                                            *
*  Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66      FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79                   *
*******************************************************************************
Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!leo.unm.edu!davros
From: [e-mail] (DAVROS)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: UFO-pics,what do You think about them?
Keywords: ufo
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Apr 92 18:01:45 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Lines: 3
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5159 sci.space:28686 alt.paranormal:4729 sci.skeptic:22355

i think they are excellent and please post more

-ketan-
Path: ns-mx!uunet!world!kibo
From: [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Apr 92 19:59:07 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: misc.test,alt.postmodern,alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.sex
Organization: A room filled with typography (in Boston's Back Bay)
Lines: 62
Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2577 alt.alien.visitors:5160

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Matthew Fields) writes:
>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Julian F Waldby) writes:
>>>In article <[e-mail]>
>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
>>>> [e-mail] (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes:
>>>> >In article <[e-mail]>
>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
>>>> >>[e-mail] (Kevin L. McBride) writes:
>>>> >>>[e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>> >>>> In article <[e-mail]>
>>>[e-mail] (barry.o.olson) writes:
>>>> >>>> >In article <[e-mail]>,
>>>[e-mail] (Russ Taylor) writes:
>>>> >>>> >> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James
>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed]
>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS.
>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper.
>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH.  I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT.
>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*.
>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you
>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents?  A thousand-degree flame on you!
>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!)
>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth?
>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich
>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width.
>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it?
>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it
>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it.
>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor
>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor
>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer.
>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE?  PLEASE EXERCISE
>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT.
>>>> >>>Okay.
>>>> >>    Come on guys, I think he means it.  Don't follow up to this.
>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious.
>>>> >Go ahead and follow up.
>>>> >Or kill me.
>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess.
>>>Shhhh!
>>>> >[e-mail]
>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming  305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139
>>>> >(  the  nonibo  -ibo  )  [phone] [home]  [phone] [office]
>>>>     No!  Don't follow up to this!  Whatever you do, _don't_ press
>>>> that "f" button!  It's a sin!  It's a sin!  This is against the gods
>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly!  See what you do!  You waste and
>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens!  Nay, until the
>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the
>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up!  My
>>>> _GOD_!  How can you even think it!  How can you dream it and still
>>>> remain sane?!?!?  How can it be?!?!?!?!  Gah!!!!
>>>> [e-mail]      | The meek shall inherit the earth,
>>>> [e-mail] |     and the wise keep moving on...
>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156     O    |-----------------------------------------
>>>>  Amherst, NY  14226      +    |Ask me about the Secret Society!  Shhhh!
>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion?  I
>>>missed the earlier parts.
>There.  No more wasted "Bandwidth"

Huh?
Path: ns-mx!uunet!bonnie.concordia.ca!garrot.DMI.USherb.CA!terre!paquj00
From: [e-mail] (JEAN-FRANCOIS PAQUETTE)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Me
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Apr 92 22:58:38 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (Pour courrier Usenet)
Organization: Universite de Sherbrooke -- DMI
Lines: 15
Nntp-Posting-Host: terre


    Hi, my name id R-94-N8.  Im an Alien living here since 1987.  I came
from the planet Zora, and I have a special mission...  God does not exist as
we imagine him;  In reality, God is a number.  And the goal of my inter-
galactical trip is to find that number and then put it on floppy-disk
backup.

    And when this day will be, the world will be saved.

/\  /\
  \/
 (oo)
  ||

R-94-N8.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!emory!ducvax.auburn.edu!lab5!forrepr
From: [e-mail] (Philip R. Forrest)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: It seems kinda simple to me.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Apr 92 04:16:41 GMT
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Auburn University Engineering
Lines: 42
Nntp-Posting-Host: lab5.eng.auburn.edu

Ya know, what I can't figure is why some of these UFO-abduction
investigators haven't tried some other means (besides hypnotism)
of proving their case. If someone came to me and told me they were
being abducted by aliens on a 'regular' basis (i.e. once every few
months) then I, being quite ignorant of proper hypnotic procedure,
would commence to at least finding a way of proving that the 'victim'
was being removed from his/her/it's car/home/location against the
victim's will.

Several scenarios present themselves:

1: The simplest:  Victim 'A' reports that she is being abducted from
   her bedroom 'regularly'. Solution: Place several self-contained
   camera systems about the points of entry in her house, and, of course,
   her bedroom. The camera systems would be internally powered, and would
   have tamper-proof seals on their casings. The investigator would come
   by once a week and change the long running tape and batteries.
   Only a few outcomes are possible:
    a) Nothing happens
    b) The victim now states she is being abducted elsewhere
    c) The camera is tampered with
    d) All the camera systems simultaneously fail and then 'fix' themselves
    e) You have the story of the millenium


2: A little more complicated: Several police agencies have successfully
   tracked people sentenced to house arrest with 'locator' devices. By
   radio triangulation the whereabouts of the person wearing the device
   could easily be documented.

3: The most complicated: Have you ever seen 'World League Football' ??
   The Helmet-Cam would work great if RADICALLY modified. Out of the thousands
   of people that have claimed to have been abducted, surely one must have
   a glass eye. A really good craftsman could fashion a glass eye with a camera
   in it that would transmit to a recorder (once again, tamper-proof) located
   in the abductee's house - and a recorder that could be transported if the
   person was travelling somewhere.


Just a few thoughts,

- Phil Forrest
Path: ns-mx!uunet!olivea!veritas!amdcad!netcomsv!mork!anson
From: [e-mail] (Anson Kennedy)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Me
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Apr 92 00:37:52 GMT
References: <=[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 24

[e-mail] (Jon Noring) writes:

>In article [e-mail] (JEAN-FRANCOIS PAQUETTE) writes:
>>
>>    Hi, my name id R-94-N8.  Im an Alien living here since 1987.  I came
>>from the planet Zora, and I have a special mission...  God does not exist as
>>we imagine him;  In reality, God is a number.  And the goal of my inter-
>>galactical trip is to find that number and then put it on floppy-disk
>>backup.
>>
>>    And when this day will be, the world will be saved.


>Last I heard, the number is 41.  Your mission is complete.  You can go back
>home now.  Does Zora have an Internet site?

I thought it was 42?
--

Anson Kennedy
Secretary of the Georgia Skeptics (but don't even THINK I speak for them!)

                  "If I had been the Virgin Mary, I would have said 'No.'"
                                      -Margaret "Stevie" Smith (1902-1971)
Path: ns-mx!uunet!olivea!veritas!amdcad!netcomsv!mork!noring
From: [e-mail] (Jon Noring)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Me
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Apr 92 00:43:33 GMT
References: <=[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 36

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Anson Kennedy) writes:
>[e-mail] (Jon Noring) writes:
>
>>In article [e-mail] (JEAN-FRANCOIS PAQUETTE) writes:
>>>
>>>    Hi, my name id R-94-N8.  Im an Alien living here since 1987.  I came
>>>from the planet Zora, and I have a special mission...  God does not exist as
>>>we imagine him;  In reality, God is a number.  And the goal of my inter-
>>>galactical trip is to find that number and then put it on floppy-disk
>>>backup.
>>>
>>>    And when this day will be, the world will be saved.
>
>
>>Last I heard, the number is 41.  Your mission is complete.  You can go back
>>home now.  Does Zora have an Internet site?
>
>I thought it was 42?


You know, by golly gee willigers, I think you're right.  You have one up on
me.  :^)


Jon

--
=============================================================================
| Jon Noring          | [e-mail] | "The dogs bark, but the  |
| JKN International   | IP    : 192.100.81.100   |  caravan moves on."      |
| 1312 Carlton Place  | Phone : [phone]   | "Pack your lunch, sit in |
| Livermore, CA 94550 | V-Mail: [phone]   |  the bushes, and watch." |
=============================================================================
"If you make $50,000 today, you have the same buying power as the average
coal miner did in 1949, adjusted for taxes and inflation," John Sestina,
nationally recognized Certified Financial Planner;  quoted in 1987.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!amdcad!netcomsv!mork!noring
From: [e-mail] (Jon Noring)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Me
Message-ID: <=[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Apr 92 23:33:48 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 26

In article [e-mail] (JEAN-FRANCOIS PAQUETTE) writes:
>
>    Hi, my name id R-94-N8.  Im an Alien living here since 1987.  I came
>from the planet Zora, and I have a special mission...  God does not exist as
>we imagine him;  In reality, God is a number.  And the goal of my inter-
>galactical trip is to find that number and then put it on floppy-disk
>backup.
>
>    And when this day will be, the world will be saved.


Last I heard, the number is 41.  Your mission is complete.  You can go back
home now.  Does Zora have an Internet site?

Jon

--
=============================================================================
| Jon Noring          | [e-mail] | "The dogs bark, but the  |
| JKN International   | IP    : 192.100.81.100   |  caravan moves on."      |
| 1312 Carlton Place  | Phone : [phone]   | "Pack your lunch, sit in |
| Livermore, CA 94550 | V-Mail: [phone]   |  the bushes, and watch." |
=============================================================================
"If you make $50,000 today, you have the same buying power as the average
coal miner did in 1949, adjusted for taxes and inflation," John Sestina,
nationally recognized Certified Financial Planner;  quoted in 1987.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!stl!crosfield!imt
From: [e-mail] (ian taylor)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,comp.graphics,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: New UFO-sighting color GIF-pics !
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Apr 92 09:27:59 GMT
References: <harti.702176684@tubue>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (ian taylor)
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,comp.graphics,alt.paranormal
Organization: Crosfield Electronics, Hemel Hempstead, United Kingdom.
Lines: 25
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5166 sci.space:28727 comp.graphics:18321 alt.paranormal:4731

In article <harti.702176684@tubue> [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann) writes:
>Hi to all UFO-interested researchers,
>I just uploaded a couple of new UFO-sighting color GIF-pics to the new
>UFO-pic-FTP-site at phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17).
>
>Also I have uploaded 2 pics from the Maria Popovich book:
>UFO-GLASNOST.
>email to: [e-mail]

THIS IS VERY EXCITING! Unfortunately this is not use at all to those of us with
no remote ftp capability!!! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE post these pictures, either
to alt.alien.visitors, or alt.binaries.pictures, to ensure that everyone gets
to see them!!!
Please someone, post these pics!!
Thanks very much

Ian


_______________________________________________________________________________
| Ian Taylor (x4097)    | The opinions expressed | "I've been living off of   |
| Crosfield Electronics    | here are not mine.     |  grass, and the drippings  |
| Hemel Hempstead, UK    | God came to me in     |  from my ceiling, it's OK  |
|            | a vision and told me   |  to eat fish 'cos they     |
| [e-mail]    | to do it.         |  don't have any feelings"  |
Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!amdcad!netcomsv!mork!anson
From: [e-mail] (Anson Kennedy)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Me
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Apr 92 01:52:53 GMT
References: <=[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 36

[e-mail] (Jon Noring) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Anson Kennedy) writes:
>>[e-mail] (Jon Noring) writes:
>>
>>>In article [e-mail] (JEAN-FRANCOIS PAQUETTE) writes:
>>>>
>>>>    Hi, my name id R-94-N8.  Im an Alien living here since 1987.  I came
>>>>from the planet Zora, and I have a special mission...  God does not exist as
>>>>we imagine him;  In reality, God is a number.  And the goal of my inter-
>>>>galactical trip is to find that number and then put it on floppy-disk
>>>>backup.
>>>>
>>>>    And when this day will be, the world will be saved.
>>
>>
>>>Last I heard, the number is 41.  Your mission is complete.  You can go back
>>>home now.  Does Zora have an Internet site?
>>
>>I thought it was 42?


>You know, by golly gee willigers, I think you're right.  You have one up on
>me.  :^)

Hey, we're all in this search for truth together.  ;-)

But I'm waiting for the person with 43 as the answer to have one up on ME!
:-))
--

Anson Kennedy
Secretary of the Georgia Skeptics (but don't even THINK I speak for them!)

                  "If I had been the Virgin Mary, I would have said 'No.'"
                                      -Margaret "Stevie" Smith (1902-1971)
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!garys
From: [e-mail] (Gary Stollman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal
Subject: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Apr 92 09:37:17 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (BBS Login)
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Lines: 16
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5168 alt.conspiracy:13747 talk.religion.newage:9978 alt.paranormal:4736

WELL, it has been a strange three months here in LA...God is continuing to
wipe out the demons that have tried to destroy my family, and I have great
hope for my future now...It looks like we just might win!!  But the impact
on my psyche is irreversible, I'm afraid...I just don't know what these
aliens will come up with next...They have the phones tapped to the gills,
and the CIA has most of the nodes (bbses) I call bugged and also the
people on GEnie that are on the boards I frequent, but me thinks they
might be getting tired somewhat...They know now that I didn't pull that
toy gun on David Horowitz for nothing...But I don't think they know
exactly WHY I did it...They will find out soon enough, I think...

        Gary

 This is from
     [e-mail]
who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet
Path: ns-mx!uunet!bonnie.concordia.ca!garrot.DMI.USherb.CA!heonj00
From: [e-mail] (JEAN-FRANCOIS HEON)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: me too
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Apr 92 18:21:27 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (Pour courrier Usenet)
Organization: Universite de Sherbrooke, Quebec
Lines: 21
Nntp-Posting-Host: roselin


    Hi, my name is 12-A-44B.  Im an Alien living here since 1942.  I came
from the planet Zanazaka, and I have a special mission... The Devil does not
exist as we imagine him;  In reality, The Devil is a system administrator.
  And the goal of my intergalactical trip is to find that sysadmin and then
 eradicate his name from all the hard disks in the universe.

    And when this day will be, the world will be saved.

\     /
 O O O
   "
 \___/


12-A-44B
--
*******************************************************************************
*  Jeff Heon             * 'Justice may be blind, but it can see in the dark' *
*  [e-mail]  *                        The judge in Dark Justice   *
*******************************************************************************
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!paperboy.osf.org!hsdndev!dartvax!mars.caps.maine.edu!maine.maine.edu!io00198
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Me
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Apr 92 16:26:08 GMT
References: <=[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Maine System
Lines: 40

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Anson Kennedy) says:
>
>[e-mail] (Jon Noring) writes:
>
>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Anson Kennedy)
>writes:
>>>[e-mail] (Jon Noring) writes:
>>>
>>>>In article [e-mail] (JEAN-FRANCOIS PAQUETTE) writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>    Hi, my name id R-94-N8.  Im an Alien living here since 1987.  I came
>>>>>from the planet Zora, and I have a special mission...  God does not exist s
>a
>>>>>we imagine him;  In reality, God is a number.  And the goal of my inter-
>>>>>galactical trip is to find that number and then put it on floppy-disk
>>>>>backup.
>>>>>
>>>>>    And when this day will be, the world will be saved.
>>>
>>>
>>>>Last I heard, the number is 41.  Your mission is complete.  You can go back
>>>>home now.  Does Zora have an Internet site?
>>>
>>>I thought it was 42?
>
>
>>You know, by golly gee willigers, I think you're right.  You have one up on
>>me.  :^)
>
>Hey, we're all in this search for truth together.  ;-)
>
>But I'm waiting for the person with 43 as the answer to have one up on ME!
>:-))
>--
The number is 42, but it's not God, it's the answer to the meaning of the
universe.  But what the hell's the question ?!!?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Corey Gray [e-mail]  |  A WET DOG SWIMS IN THE RAIN
                                      |  BUT A DRY MARTINI LAUGHS
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.claremont.edu!nntp-server.caltech.edu!sjs
From: [e-mail] (Stephen Speicher)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Me
Message-ID: <sjs.702326490@hoodlum>
Date: 3 Apr 92 18:41:30 GMT
References: <=[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: California Institute of Technology, Pasadena
Lines: 37
Nntp-Posting-Host: hoodlum.hood.caltech.edu

[e-mail] (Anson Kennedy) writes:

>[e-mail] (Jon Noring) writes:

>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Anson Kennedy) writes:
>>>[e-mail] (Jon Noring) writes:
>>>
>>>>In article [e-mail] (JEAN-FRANCOIS PAQUETTE) writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>    Hi, my name id R-94-N8.  Im an Alien living here since 1987.  I came
>>>>>from the planet Zora, and I have a special mission...  God does not exist as
>>>>>we imagine him;  In reality, God is a number.  And the goal of my inter-
>>>>>galactical trip is to find that number and then put it on floppy-disk
>>>>>backup.
>>>>>
>>>>>    And when this day will be, the world will be saved.
>>>
>>>
>>>>Last I heard, the number is 41.  Your mission is complete.  You can go back
>>>>home now.  Does Zora have an Internet site?
>>>
>>>I thought it was 42?


>>You know, by golly gee willigers, I think you're right.  You have one up on
>>me.  :^)

>Hey, we're all in this search for truth together.  ;-)

>But I'm waiting for the person with 43 as the answer to have one up on ME!
>:-))
>--

You're all wrong! If it's God it must be an irrational number.

Stephen
[e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!cy.fre.au!borg
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: I2
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Apr 92 20:24:28 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Lines: 1

am an alien.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ucla-cs!ucla-se!mott!mitch
From: [e-mail] (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin))
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: It seems kinda simple to me.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Apr 92 21:21:01 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Ace Manufacturing Company
Lines: 18

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Ya know, what I can't figure is why some of these UFO-abduction
>investigators haven't tried some other means (besides hypnotism)
>of proving their case. If someone came to me and told me they were

[Several scenarios deleted...]

How about using a "control group" of people who claim _not_ to
have had an abduction experience or missing time episode?
Would they suddenly begin "remembering" such episodes when
placed under hypnosis?  A "false positive" result would certainly
cast aspersions on the value of hypnosis as a tool.

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCLAIMER:
"Don't blame _me_, _I_ didn't do it!" --Krusty the Clown
"Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmeyoucan'tproveanything!" --Bartman
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!spool.mu.edu!hri.com!ukma!nsisrv!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Mike Bur)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.stupidity,alt.exploding.kibo
Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Apr 92 00:47:15 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet)
Organization: NASA/GSFC code 923
Lines: 63
Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2599 alt.alien.visitors:5174 alt.slack:2829 alt.stupidity:4439 alt.exploding.kibo:106
Nntp-Posting-Host: ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:
>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Matthew Fields) writes:
>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Julian F Waldby) writes:
>>>>In article <[e-mail]>
>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
>>>>> [e-mail] (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes:
>>>>> >In article <[e-mail]>
>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
>>>>> >>[e-mail] (Kevin L. McBride) writes:
>>>>> >>>[e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>> >>>> In article <[e-mail]>
>>>>[e-mail] (barry.o.olson) writes:
>>>>> >>>> >In article <[e-mail]>,
>>>>[e-mail] (Russ Taylor) writes:
>>>>> >>>> >> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James
>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed]
>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS.
>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper.
>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH.  I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT.
>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*.
>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you
>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents?  A thousand-degree flame on you!
>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!)
>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth?
>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich
>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width.
>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it?
>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it
>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it.
>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor
>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor
>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer.
>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE?  PLEASE EXERCISE
>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT.
>>>>> >>>Okay.
>>>>> >>    Come on guys, I think he means it.  Don't follow up to this.
>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious.
>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up.
>>>>> >Or kill me.
>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess.
>>>>Shhhh!
>>>>> >[e-mail]
>>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming  305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139
>>>>> >(  the  nonibo  -ibo  )  [phone] [home]  [phone] [office]
>>>>>     No!  Don't follow up to this!  Whatever you do, _don't_ press
>>>>> that "f" button!  It's a sin!  It's a sin!  This is against the gods
>>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly!  See what you do!  You waste and
>>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens!  Nay, until the
>>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the
>>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up!  My
>>>>> _GOD_!  How can you even think it!  How can you dream it and still
>>>>> remain sane?!?!?  How can it be?!?!?!?!  Gah!!!!
>>>>> [e-mail]      | The meek shall inherit the earth,
>>>>> [e-mail] |     and the wise keep moving on...
>>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156     O    |-----------------------------------------
>>>>>  Amherst, NY  14226      +    |Ask me about the Secret Society!  Shhhh!
>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion?  I
>>>>missed the earlier parts.
>>There.  No more wasted "Bandwidth"
>Huh?
Duh!
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!pacbell.com!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2
From: [e-mail] (barry.o.olson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Apr 92 01:45:50 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: AT&T
Lines: 9
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5175 alt.conspiracy:13760 talk.religion.newage:9981 alt.paranormal:4737

Gary- followup to alt.alien.visitors if you can


We are all pulling for ya buddy! keep up the good work, and
don't let the aliens steal your sanity.
I still watch CNN, but haven't seen anything weird or unusual
except they keep featuring Bill Clinton. Keep us posted!

barry--
Path: ns-mx!uunet!microsoft!a-paulc
From: [e-mail] (Paul CLARK)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.drugs,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: PROGRAMMING AND METAPROGRAMMING IN THE HUMAN BIOCOMPUTER
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Apr 92 20:19:13 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Microsoft Corp.
Lines: 12
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5176 alt.drugs:24485 alt.paranormal:4738 sci.skeptic:22410

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Robert Cain) writes:
>Thank you antti.  I needed that!  Do you or anyone know what Dr. Lilly
>is doing now, where he might be?

    Apparently he lives around the Malibu area somewhere. According
to Dr. Tim, these days he's been taking it easy, not doing any heavy
research, and "he really likes the girls". :')

    I also recommend his biography 'The Scientist'.

.    .    .         .    .    .    .    .         .    .    .
      -Paul Clark      [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!src.honeywell.com!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!vjmurphy
From: [e-mail] (Phred T. Platypus)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <_wlj#[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Apr 92 07:10:30 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Lines: 14
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5177 alt.conspiracy:13765

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Gary Stollman) writes:
>
> This is from
>     [e-mail]
>who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet
                  ^^^^^
  Seems Gary has become a multiple-being of some kind.


--
"You ask me if sex is one of the most  _\_\    _/_/     Phred Platypus
 important things in life?  Absolutely. _\_\  _/_/  Grammarian of Vengeance
 But the lack of it is even likelier     _\_\_/_/ [ [e-mail] ]
 to drive you nuts." -- Harlan Ellison    _\_/       Vincent J. Murphy
Path: ns-mx!uunet!hela.iti.org!widener!beyonet!beyo
From: [e-mail] (Steve Urich)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFO debate on Packet
Summary: Strange Book
Keywords: original packet found
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Apr 92 20:28:13 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Beyonet Network
Lines: 75


    I found the original message that everyone is replying about.
    I didn't see the orignal when I posted before sorry. I found
    it on another packet bbs that keeps its messages longer then
    the one I usually use.

    Very Strange... What will people but on Ham Operators next :-)

===========Start Packet massage (fwd)

Msg#  TR  Size  To    From   @ BBS Read Date/Time     Title
50269 BN  2327 INFO   KT7H   USA      1 0402/2133 Ham/UFO Conspiracy??
  Path: WA3TSW!WB3JOE!KD3DE!KB1BD!KB4CYC!KB2EAR!NN2Z!N7DUO

Date: 920328/0134
From: KT7H @ N7DUO
Message-Id: <4719@N7DUO>
To: INFO @ USA
Subject: Ham/UFO Conspiracy??


I saw something REALLY hilarious recently in a "new age" bookstore in
my neighborhood here in Seattle.  It was a book called "THE ENERGY
GRID 1990 - Harmonic 695 - The Pulse of the Universe" by Bruce
Cathie.  In it, Mr. Cathie describes how he figured out a pattern to
UFO sightings when he plotted them on a map.  He theorized that the
UFOs were kept aloft by some sort of anti-gravitational force at the
intersection of some energy lines that become obvious when viewing
his map.

The really funny thing was that he went to the locations where these
map lines converged, and found some other-worldly structures.  He
believes that these strange structures beam energy to the UFOs,
keeping them aloft.  After reading his descriptions, I realized that
he was observing an HF cubical quad antenna used by hams!

He eventually discovered that hams lived at each of these locations
where he found the antennas, but believes that ham operators are
involved in some giant UFO conspiracy!  He also does not believe that
amateur radio operators are capable of constructing such advanced
antennas without the help of ALIEN BEINGS!

His further research uncovered HF Yagi antennas, and all sorts of
other wonderful things.  His encounters with hams were interesting
too.  He seemed to regard them as strange and possibly from other
planets!

I wonder what this guy would think if he ever travelled to the annual
Dayton Hamvention?  Come to think of it, isn't DAYTON near the WRIGHT
PATTERSON AIR FORCE BASE where the tabloids claim the SPACE ALIEN
BODIES captured in NEW MEXICO in 1949 are stored?

I doubt if he realized that the HF cubical quad antenna was developed
years ago at HCJB in the Andes.  Didn't I see a supermarket tabloid a
few years back claiming that the Andes are host to a SECRET UFO BASE?

I knew there was something very strange about my hobby!

73,

Tad
KT7H @ N7DUO.WA.USA.NA


================End of Packet Message (fwd)

--
 ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############
 ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA  USA    |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########
 ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############
 ####       #### snark!beyonet!beyo   |when I hit the Screen"  ####       ####
 ##    |_|    ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project  ##    |_|    ##
 ##           ##-----------------------------------------------##           ##
 ####       ####  Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#SEPA.PA.USA.NA  ####       ####
_###############_______________________________________________###############_
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pitt.edu!gvls1!tredysvr!cellar!revpk
From: [e-mail] (Brian 'Rev P-K' Siano)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: I2
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Apr 92 19:19:34 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (The Cellar BBS)
Organization: The Cellar BBS and public access system
Lines: 13

[e-mail] writes:

> am an alien.

Are we supposed to be impressed?

Brian "Rev. P-K" Siano                                  [e-mail]
...Saure really turns out to be an adept at the difficult art of papryomancy,
the ability to prophesy through contemplating the way people roll reefers -
the shape, the licking pattern, the wrinkles and folds or absence thereof
in the paper.  "You will soon be in love," sez Saure, "see, this line here."
"It's long, isn't it?  Does that mean --" "Length is usually intensity.
Not time."                       -- Thomas Pynchon, _Gravity's Rainbow_
Path: ns-mx!uunet!olivea!decwrl!amdcad!netcomsv!mork!raj
From: [e-mail] (Roger Lee)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.stupidity,alt.exploding.kibo
Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Apr 92 09:06:13 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 72
Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2607 alt.alien.visitors:5180 alt.slack:2832 alt.stupidity:4445 alt.exploding.kibo:110

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:
>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Matthew Fields) writes:
>>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Julian F Waldby) writes:
>>>>>In article <[e-mail]>
>>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
>>>>>> [e-mail] (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes:
>>>>>> >In article <[e-mail]>
>>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
>>>>>> >>[e-mail] (Kevin L. McBride) writes:
>>>>>> >>>[e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>> >>>> In article <[e-mail]>
>>>>>[e-mail] (barry.o.olson) writes:
>>>>>> >>>> >In article <[e-mail]>,
>>>>>[e-mail] (Russ Taylor) writes:
>>>>>> >>>> >> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James
>>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed]
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS.
>>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper.
>>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH.  I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT.
>>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*.
>>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you
>>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents?  A thousand-degree flame on you!
>>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!)
>>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth?
>>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich
>>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width.
>>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it?
>>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it
>>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it.
>>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor
>>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor
>>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer.
>>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE?  PLEASE EXERCISE
>>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT.
>>>>>> >>>Okay.
>>>>>> >>    Come on guys, I think he means it.  Don't follow up to this.
>>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious.
>>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up.
>>>>>> >Or kill me.
>>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess.
>>>>>Shhhh!
>>>>>> >[e-mail]
>>>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming  305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139
>>>>>> >(  the  nonibo  -ibo  )  [phone] [home]  [phone] [office]
>>>>>>     No!  Don't follow up to this!  Whatever you do, _don't_ press
>>>>>> that "f" button!  It's a sin!  It's a sin!  This is against the gods
>>>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly!  See what you do!  You waste and
>>>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens!  Nay, until the
>>>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the
>>>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up!  My
>>>>>> _GOD_!  How can you even think it!  How can you dream it and still
>>>>>> remain sane?!?!?  How can it be?!?!?!?!  Gah!!!!
>>>>>> [e-mail]      | The meek shall inherit the earth,
>>>>>> [e-mail] |     and the wise keep moving on...
>>>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156     O    |-----------------------------------------
>>>>>>  Amherst, NY  14226      +    |Ask me about the Secret Society!  Shhhh!
>>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion?  I
>>>>>missed the earlier parts.
>>>There.  No more wasted "Bandwidth"
>>Huh?
>Duh!
NOT!
--
[e-mail]
I speak for myself.

COME ONE! COME ALL! COME JOIN ME AT THE CHURCH OF APPLIANTOLOGY!!!
                    -- L. Ron Hoover
Path: ns-mx!uunet!hela.iti.org!widener!beyonet!beyo
From: [e-mail] (Steve Urich)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: More Packet messages (fwd)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Apr 92 23:48:30 GMT
Organization: Beyonet Network
Lines: 85


    More Amateur Radio Packet messages forwarded:


MSG # TR  SIZE TO     FROM   @BBS   DATE    TITLE
 4530 B#  1344 UFO    WQ1F   ALLUSA 920404 UFO?
Forwarding path: WB3EUF KA3FMO WB9TYT XF3R KA0WIN KC4CLD KP4OO KP4EDL
W7LUS KB4FO WB4TEM KC4MCQ WQ1F

The  question is do UFOs exist and the answer is definately yes.. even
if its a flock or misguided geese.
The more interesting question is does intelligent life exist else where
in our Universe and the answer to that question has yet to be definitively
answered. Probabilities say yes,but objective evidence,to this point says
no.
73 Gary (A TREKIE and UFO skeptic)

*** END OF MSG # 4530 from WQ1F @ WQ1F.VT.USA.NOAM
MSG # TR  SIZE TO     FROM   @BBS   DATE    TITLE
 4517 B#  1306 UFO    WA2AEH ALLBBS 920404 UFO's Con men at work.
Forwarding path: WB3EUF KA3FMO KF2AW WB2MNF KB1BD KB4CYC WA2JVM WB2HVF
WA2SNA

And another thing,  I also believe there are many people involved in the
perpetration of the UFO myth for financial reasons.  UFO magazines, clubs,
memorabilia and all other kinds of stuff.  As to the question "Why havent
they contacted us", its because there isnt anyone to contact.  Any pre-
conceived perseptions you may have of this is purely imaginary.  It really
doesnt matter if the street is black or white, does it exist at all.  Why if
a UFO landed on a baby carriage would the President of the US lose the election?
You see it "Just Doesnt Matter" -- "It Just Doesnt Matter".  What you or I
think is purely imaginary.  Nothing exist except in the mind.  Its all
an illusion as is life itself.





*** END OF MSG # 4517 from WA2AEH @ WA2SNA.NJ.USA.NA
MSG # TR  SIZE TO     FROM   @BBS   DATE    TITLE
 4516 B#  1177 UFO    WA2AEH ALLBBS 920404 UFO's - BUNK
Forwarding path: WB3EUF KA3FMO KF2AW WB2MNF KB1BD KB4CYC WA2JVM WB2HVF
WA2SNA

To All UFO believers,

First of all I do not believe UFO's exist.  There is at this time absolutely
no evidence for them.  Surely in all these years we have heard about them,
there has never been one shred of physical evidence to support their
existence.  I believe that some have supposedly crashed.  Where is the
wreakage?  Sure the military has it.  Give us all a break.  The only good
quote about this whole subject came from N1API. "The Prime Directive".  I
loved it.  I am by the way a Star Trek fan, buts lets all come back to earth.

Bill ([e-mail])





*** END OF MSG # 4516 from WA2AEH @ WA2SNA.NJ.USA.NA
MSG # TR  SIZE TO     FROM   @BBS   DATE    TITLE
 4525 B#  1206 UFO    KI6CQ  ALLUSA 920404 UFOs and DXCC?
Forwarding path: WB3EUF KA3FMO WB9TYT KC9BK WA9KEC N9BYS W9ZMR WB9SLE
WB9YAE N9HSI WB6YMH
From: KI6CQ @ WB6YMH.#SOCA.CA

If I contact extraterrestials, does this count for DXCC? What if there are
different nations on the planet I contact -- would each count? What do I do
if I am denied because noone can read the QSLs? Because interstellar travel
is so expensive, I wonder if anyone with regular encounters has set up a
QSL buro. If so, how do I use it? 73 Paul KI6CQ@K6VE.#SOCA.CA  (hi hi)


*** END OF MSG # 4525 from KI6CQ @ WB6YMH.#SOCA.CA.USA.NA

--
 ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############
 ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA  USA    |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########
 ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############
 ####       #### snark!beyonet!beyo   |when I hit the Screen"  ####       ####
 ##    |_|    ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project  ##    |_|    ##
 ##           ##-----------------------------------------------##           ##
 ####       ####  Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#SEPA.PA.USA.NA  ####       ####
_###############_______________________________________________###############_
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!jvnc.net!darwin.sura.net!ukma!widener!beyonet!beyo
From: [e-mail] (Steve Urich)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: UFO debate on Packet
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Apr 92 17:50:26 GMT
Organization: Beyonet Network
Lines: 92


    Been seeing alot of Trogladyte(sp?) posts here lately, where have
    all the information posters gone?

    I just noticed a discussion going on about UFO's on Amatuer Packet
    Radio. Here are some of the bits.

MSG # TR  SIZE TO     FROM   @BBS   DATE    TITLE
 4469 B#  2104 DEBATE N1FJD  ALLBBS 920404 re UFOs
Forwarding path: KB2NEX WB2QJA K2KJC WB2IBO N2BQF KC2FD W2JUP N4GAA
W1NY WB1DSW KA1PEP NS1N KQ1K

Hello,
     My name is Mark Geisler and I also believe that UFOs do exist.  I also believe
there is inteligent life on other planets on other solar systems.  Among the
billions of billions of stars, certainly there has to be at least one other if
not more solar systems with another planet where there is intelegent life.  I find
to be an awfully arogent attitude to believe that the planet earth is the only
planet with us so called inteligent human beings.
     We have sent probes out into space to investigate a minute speck of infinite
outer space.  What is to say that some of those sightings of UFOs are not actully
probes from other inteligent beings on distent planets of galaxies that are yet
to be discovered as our technology developes ever further.
     On the walls of caves dated back to days of prehistoric man there have been paintings of strange vessels in the sky.  There have even been paintings of beings in
what resembles space suits and helmets. There are many things that are still
unexplained and unfamiliar to us.  I will tell you a strange experience I once
More?
had in another packet message.  Keep this discussion going.
73 MARK N1FJD @ KG1K DENNIS


*** END OF MSG # 4469 from N1FJD @ KQ1K.MA.USA.NA
MSG # TR  SIZE TO     FROM   @BBS   DATE    TITLE
 4456 B#  1003 ALL    N1API  ALLBBS 920404 UFO's why haven't they contated us?
Forwarding path: WB3EUF N3FOA N3DFD KF2AW WB2MNF KB1BD KB4CYC WA2JVM
W2NRE WB2QJA N1API

N1IKO posed the question that if they are out there "How come they don't
contact us direct.."

Any Star Trek fan knows the answer, "The Prime Directive", OM.  Whether it's
written in English, or Vulcan, or Romulin it's still the Prime Directive!





*** END OF MSG # 4456 from N1API @ N1API.CT.USA.NA
MSG # TR  SIZE TO     FROM   @BBS   DATE    TITLE
 4380 B#  2379 DEBATE N1KIO  ALLBBS 920403 RE : WZ1F AND UFO's
Forwarding path: KB2NEX WB2QJA K2KJC WB2IBO N2BQF KC2FD W2JUP N4GAA
W1NY WB1DSW WA1WOK

In reply to WZ1F's query about " UFO's". What I believe that he is
looking for is someone who has talked on Ham Radio to one. Lee truly
believes in UFO's and would like to prove it. As another believer in
exterestial intelligence, I would also be interested in hearing about
things like that.
     Now all of us know that the universe is a lot larger then we can
understand. And most of it is a lot older then our little part of it.
So it stands to reason that there must be other intelligent lifeforms
out there. I believe that there is even civilizations that are far in
advance of ours. Why can't these lifeforms have visited our planet to
learn about us ? I think that they have many times. Ahhhh... E=mc2 you
say... Well not so long ago we believed that man couldn't travel faster
then sound. We sure travel a lot faster then that now. Lightspeed,
someday we will travel faster then that also. And so must our visitors.
     Why are they here ? Well if it were us.. because they want to
More?
learn. Scientific Curosity. Plain and simple. We do it all the time.
     How come they don't contact us direct.. Well if you were from a
civilazation that was far in advanced of us, would you want a warlike
agressive lifeform like us to know about us ? I think not !
There have been so many sightings over the years that there must be
something to it. But in all these years, I have never once heard of
someone talking to them by radio. Have any of you ??
     Well here is another good subject for debate.. Lets hear from the
rest of you....
KEEP THE DEBATES GOING
73 TOM N1KIO


*** END OF MSG # 4380 from N1KIO @ WA1WOK.NH.USA.NA
--
 ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############
 ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA  USA    |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########
 ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############
 ####       #### snark!beyonet!beyo   |when I hit the Screen"  ####       ####
 ##    |_|    ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project  ##    |_|    ##
 ##           ##-----------------------------------------------##           ##
 ####       ####  Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#EPA.PA.USA.NA   ####       ####
_###############_______________________________________________###############_
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!cunews!nrcnet0!bnrgate!bmerh2!bmerh327!snark
From: [e-mail] (Eric Nelson)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.stupidity,alt.exploding.kibo
Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Apr 92 18:48:09 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet News Admin)
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: BNR Ottawa, Fiber Systems Development
Lines: 81
Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2610 alt.alien.visitors:5183 alt.slack:2836 alt.stupidity:4448 alt.exploding.kibo:111

>>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>>     No!  Don't follow up to this!  Whatever you do, _don't_ press
>>>>>>  Amherst, NY  14226      +    |Ask me about the Secret Society!  Shhhh!
>>>>>> >(  the  nonibo  -ibo  )  [phone] [home]  [phone] [office]
>>>>>> >>    Come on guys, I think he means it.  Don't follow up to this.
>>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!)
>>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS.
>>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH.  I WISH YOU PEOPLE
WOULD STOP IT.
>>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper.
>>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*.
>>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it?
>>>>>> >>>> >> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(James
>>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor
>>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but
only after you
>>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed]
>>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents?  A thousand-degree flame on you!
>>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth?
>>>>>> >>>> >In article <[e-mail]>,
>>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it
>>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor
>>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich
>>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width.
>>>>>> >>>> In article <[e-mail]>
>>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT.
>>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it.
>>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE?  PLEASE EXERCISE
>>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer.
>>>>>> >>>Okay.
>>>>>> >>>[e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>> >>[e-mail] (Kevin L. McBride) writes:
>>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up.
>>>>>> >In article <[e-mail]>
>>>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming  305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139
>>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious.
>>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess.
>>>>>> >Or kill me.
>>>>>> >[e-mail]
>>>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156     O    |-----------------------------------------
>>>>>> _GOD_!  How can you even think it!  How can you dream it and still
>>>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the
>>>>>> [e-mail]      | The meek shall inherit the earth,
>>>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly!  See what you do!  You waste and
>>>>>> remain sane?!?!?  How can it be?!?!?!?!  Gah!!!!
>>>>>> [e-mail] (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes:
>>>>>> that "f" button!  It's a sin!  It's a sin!  This is against the gods
>>>>>> [e-mail] |     and the wise keep moving on...
>>>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens!  Nay, until the
>>>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up!  My
>>>>>In article <[e-mail]>
>>>>>Shhhh!
>>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion?  I
>>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
>>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
>>>>>missed the earlier parts.
>>>>>[e-mail] (barry.o.olson) writes:
>>>>>[e-mail] (Russ Taylor) writes:
>>>>In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Julian F Waldby) writes:
>>>In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Matthew Fields) writes:
>>>There.  No more wasted "Bandwidth"
>>Huh?
>>In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:
>Duh!
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James 'Kibo'
Parry) writes:
NOT!

unix> sort message > the.cascade.from.hell

I sorted it all out, heh heh heh, my fee is $20.

Send it soon or kill me.  Or feed me chruch food you pink bastards.




Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!pacbell.com!att!princeton!udel!darwin.sura.net!Sirius.dfn.de!zrz.tu-berlin.de!harti
From: [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,comp.graphics,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: Please DON'T post GIFs (was Re: New UFO-sighting color GIF-pics !)
Message-ID: <harti.702415216@tubue>
Date: 4 Apr 92 19:20:16 GMT
References: <harti.702176684@tubue> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News  Manager)
Distribution: tub
Organization: ZRZ/TU-Berlin
Lines: 43
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5184 sci.space:28787 comp.graphics:18374 alt.paranormal:4746
Nntp-Posting-Host: mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (ian taylor) writes:
>> In article <harti.702176684@tubue> [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann) writes:
>>>Hi to all UFO-interested researchers,

>   [Which does not include me, a mild-mannered reader of sci.space]

>>>I just uploaded a couple of new UFO-sighting color GIF-pics [...]
>>
>> THIS IS VERY EXCITING! Unfortunately this is not use at all to those of us with
>> no remote ftp capability!!! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE post these pictures, either
>> to alt.alien.visitors, or alt.binaries.pictures, to ensure that everyone gets
>> to see them!!!
>> Please someone, post these pics!!

>PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE, Stefan, and everybody else,
>do NOT, I repeat, do *NOT* post these to sci.space, comp.graphics, or
>any other newsgroup not primarily devoted to UFO matters!!!  We don't
>want to see them (if we did, we would look in the saucer groups), and
>we don't want our in-boxes choked with pixels.

>I rather suspect that if some kind soul e-mailed the GIFs to Ian, he
>would calm down quite a bit. (-:

>     O~~*           /_) ' / /   /_/ '  ,   ,  ' ,_  _           \|/
>   - ~ -~~~~~~~~~~~/_) / / /   / / / (_) (_) / / / _\~~~~~~~~~~~zap!
> /       \                          (_) (_)                    / | \
> |       |     Bill Higgins   Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory
> \       /     Bitnet:     [e-mail]
>   -   -       Internet:  [e-mail]
>     ~         SPAN/Hepnet:      43011::HIGGINS

Well, I will post them only to alt.binaries.pictures.misc soon, when I have
more time to uuencode them.

BTW, is there any automatic post-tool, that let me uuencode, split and post
binary files automatically and not by hand ?
Any help would be greatly appreciated !

Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for
Decentral Energy Research
email to: [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!psinntp!vaxsar.vassar.edu!selucey
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Man on MARS?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Apr 92 07:59:42 GMT
Organization: Vassar College
Lines: 15

I'd like to throw this open to general comment:
A friedn of mine was visiting Pittsburgh, PA to have a Unimation industrial
robot repaired and he stopped into a museum or conference center (don't
remember which.)
He said that the individuals running the conference showed a video of some
"recent" NASA photos of the surface of Mars which had been computer "enhanced."

These photos evidently revealed either some sort of statue or land design that
resembled (after enhancement) a human face.

I believe the conference was called the FACE ON MARS or some such...

Can anyone give me more info... Sounds to me like this was a case of fooling
around with image enhancing to drum up public opinion and thus support for a
Mars mission?  Any comments?
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo
From: [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Man on MARS?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Apr 92 14:01:11 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System
Lines: 41

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

>I'd like to throw this open to general comment:
>A friedn of mine was visiting Pittsburgh, PA to have a Unimation industrial
>robot repaired and he stopped into a museum or conference center (don't
>remember which.)
>He said that the individuals running the conference showed a video of some
>"recent" NASA photos of the surface of Mars which had been computer "enhanced."

>These photos evidently revealed either some sort of statue or land design that
>resembled (after enhancement) a human face.

>I believe the conference was called the FACE ON MARS or some such...

>Can anyone give me more info... Sounds to me like this was a case of fooling
>around with image enhancing to drum up public opinion and thus support for a
>Mars mission?  Any comments?

Hi, it seems you are new to this newsgroup.
There was lately a big discussion in various groups over here abou the Mars
face and the Mars pyramids.

Have a look via anonymous FTP to phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17)
There is inside directory /pub/ufo_and_space_pics  the original and enhanced
photos of the Mars face and pyramids !!

BTW, I would like to know the final statement from NASA, what is their official
plan to take pictures from the Cyndonia region again at their upcoming
MARS OBSERVER mission, which is going to lauch this fall???
Will they also take pictures again from the face and pyramids ?

Best regards, Stefan Hartmnn.


--

*******************************************************************************
*  Stefan Hartmann       This is how to contact me:                           *
*  EMAIL: [e-mail]                                            *
*  Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66      FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79                   *
*******************************************************************************
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!munnari.oz.au!uunet!polari!rwing!fylz!eskimo!delisle
From: [e-mail] (Ben Delisle)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: I2
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Apr 92 07:40:45 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Core Dump Apperciation Society
Lines: 18

[e-mail] writes:
> am an alien.

   Of coarse You are, every time You cross a state or national border
You become an alien. The real question is, are You an illegal or not?
         ;>

  BTW: I wonder what the I.N.S. policy in dealing with E.T.aliens
will be if or when they appear or are caught, and what kind of
deportation proceedings could happen, (It may be easy to toss some one
over a border, but how can they toss some one off the Earth or out of
the Solaris star system?).


--
 +-(c)--------------------------+ Information is the root of knowledge.
 | [e-mail] |   Action is the root of experience.
 +------------------------------+    Illusion is the root of reality.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!verifone.com!ed_l1
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal
Subject: On cooperation
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Apr 92 02:26:55 GMT
Organization: VeriFone Inc., Honolulu HI
Lines: 69
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5188 talk.religion.newage:9988 alt.paranormal:4747

>Cooperation.  Working together.  Helping each other.
>

;Um, helping each other do what?  BECOME AS GOOD OR BETTER THAN YOU?

;Cooperating means giving up something you want because someone else
;wants it.  If _everyone_ cooperates, what difference will it make  to
;the general well-being of the world.  We'd be in a stagnant steady-state.

Good question, Jim.  Let me relate something that came up in discussion
recently.

A good friend of mine declined to join this movement, and I asked him why.
He said that cooperation was not possible, because there are opposing
goals.

As an example, he cited the spotted owl and the clear-cut loggers.

The loggers want to clear-cut and the owl (assumed) wants to live.
The protestors want to stop the loggers so that the owl will live.
So there can BE no cooperation!

Imagine if all the protest energy went instead into discovering a
means by which the loggers could meet their economic needs without
clear-cutting.

The loggers don't want to kill the owl (though they shoot them so
that what they see as the "problem" will be eliminated), they want
to make money from logging.

The protestors don't want to protest, they want to save an endangered
species (and stop a devestating process).

If they cooperated in finding a solution to their colletive problems,
they might even find one.

Cooperation doesn't mean giving up something that someone else wants,
it means helping each other find suitable goals to solve problems.
Compromise is each side giving up a little, cooperation is both sides
getting what they want.  This will not create stagnation, but growth.

>When enough people (or anything else) cooperate, a force is
>created that cannot be withstood by all of the competition in the world.

;Care to elaborate on this "force?"

Gladly.

If some of us cooperate, and we are able to be more satisfied, more
efficient and more productive than those who don't cooperate, then
everyone else will be motivated into cooperation rather than competition.

By cooperation we don't mean giving up your individuality.  You can be who
you are, without changing that, and still work with other people toward
mutual benefit.  This network wouldn't be here without cooperation!
You wouldn't be reading this notice, and wouldn't have read the first one.

So tell me: what else do you need to convince you?

Ed.

--
===========================================================================
|| Ed L'Esperance - P.O. Box 4635, Kane`ohe, Hawai`i 96744  U.S.A. Earth ||
||   Anthropologist, Writer, Editor    -*-     IN%"[e-mail]"   ||
||   Opinions Copyright (c) 1992 Ed L'Esperance.  All Rights Reserved    ||
===========================================================================

Press RETURN for more...
Path: ns-mx!uunet!verifone.com!ed_l1
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: On cooperation
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Apr 92 02:30:37 GMT
Organization: VeriFone Inc., Honolulu HI
Lines: 81

>Cooperation.  Working together.  Helping each other.
>

;Um, helping each other do what?  BECOME AS GOOD OR BETTER THAN YOU?

;Cooperating means giving up something you want because someone else
;wants it.  If _everyone_ cooperates, what difference will it make  to
;the general well-being of the world.  We'd be in a stagnant steady-state.

Good question, Jim.  Let me relate something that came up in discussion
recently.

A good friend of mine declined to join this movement, and I asked him why.
He said that cooperation was not possible, because there are opposing
goals.

As an example, he cited the spotted owl and the clear-cut loggers.

The loggers want to clear-cut and the owl (assumed) wants to live.
The protestors want to stop the loggers so that the owl will live.
So there can BE no cooperation!

Imagine if all the protest energy went instead into discovering a
means by which the loggers could meet their economic needs without
clear-cutting.

The loggers don't want to kill the owl (though they shoot them so
that what they see as the "problem" will be eliminated), they want
to make money from logging.

The protestors don't want to protest, they want to save an endangered
species (and stop a devestating process).

If they cooperated in finding a solution to their colletive problems,
they might even find one.

Cooperation doesn't mean giving up something that someone else wants,
it means helping each other find suitable goals to solve problems.
Compromise is each side giving up a little, cooperation is both sides
getting what they want.  This will not create stagnation, but growth.

>When enough people (or anything else) cooperate, a force is
>created that cannot be withstood by all of the competition in the world.

;Care to elaborate on this "force?"

Gladly.

If some of us cooperate, and we are able to be more satisfied, more
efficient and more productive than those who don't cooperate, then
everyone else will be motivated into cooperation rather than competition.

>
>My bumper sticker:
>
>-------------------------------
>|I'm been Committed, have you?|
>|  Peace through Cooperation  |
>-------------------------------

The natural reaction is to strike out at the things we fear.  It's OK.
I'm not offended Jim, I'm amused.  It's actually kind of cute, and it is
certainly not unexpected.

By cooperation we don't mean giving up your individuality.  You can be who
you are, without changing that, and still work with other people toward
mutual benefit.  This network wouldn't be here without cooperation!
You wouldn't be reading this notice, and wouldn't have read the first one.

So tell me: what else do you need to convince you?

Ed.

--
===========================================================================
|| Ed L'Esperance - P.O. Box 4635, Kane`ohe, Hawai`i 96744  U.S.A. Earth ||
||   Anthropologist, Writer, Editor    -*-     IN%"[e-mail]"   ||
||   Opinions Copyright (c) 1992 Ed L'Esperance.  All Rights Reserved    ||
===========================================================================

Press RETURN for more...
Path: ns-mx!uunet!psinntp!digex!andy
From: [e-mail] (Andrew M Cohn)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Great book to read!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Apr 92 14:04:16 GMT
Organization: Express Access Online Communications, Greenbelt, Maryland USA
Lines: 7

Want to read a fun book about alien visitors? Check out Sidney Sheldon's
latest novel entitled "The Doomsday Conspiracy". It's a real page-turner...
part spy thriller, part UFO, and a real departure for Sheldon. My favorite
part was when a horny pickup artist bumps (literally) into a lost, dazed
alien on the street and takes her to a hotel. She goes to turn out the
light and...well, you'll just have to read it for yourself. I found
my copy in a local library...finished it in one sitting. Great!
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!anasaz!qip!billy
From: billy@anasaz (Bill Moore)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: It seems kinda simple to me.
Message-ID: <1992Apr5.204639.11982@anasaz>
Date: 5 Apr 92 20:46:39 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Anasazi, Inc.  Phoenix, Az
Lines: 35

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) writes:
->In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
->>Ya know, what I can't figure is why some of these UFO-abduction
->>investigators haven't tried some other means (besides hypnotism)
->>of proving their case. If someone came to me and told me they were
->
->[Several scenarios deleted...]
->
->How about using a "control group" of people who claim _not_ to
->have had an abduction experience or missing time episode?
->Would they suddenly begin "remembering" such episodes when
->placed under hypnosis?  A "false positive" result would certainly
->cast aspersions on the value of hypnosis as a tool.
->
Well, most "abductees" don't calim to have been abducted until AFTER they're
hypnotised so they would fall into  the control group to start with.

Unfortunately, most of the really good abduction stories are illicited by
unprofessional hypnotists and transcripts (when available) of the sessions
usually indicate significant suggestion by the hypnotist.  I don't know of
any important cases where a professional (ie, psychiatrist, doctor, etc.)
with no interest in UFOs has reported an "abduction" story.  Bud Hopkins, for
example, goes around the country hypnotizing people BEFORE he brings them
to a real hypnotist and then gets paid for the books he writes about it.
>--
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>DISCLAIMER:
>"Don't blame _me_, _I_ didn't do it!" --Krusty the Clown
>"Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmeyoucan'tproveanything!" --Bartman


--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
     Bill Moore     [e-mail]    [phone]
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!munnari.oz.au!metro!seagoon.newcastle.edu.au!cc.newcastle.edu.au!ccasm
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Q&A on Extraterrestrial Abductions and Visitations
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Apr 92 05:33:52 GMT
References: <=[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Lines: 11

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
> (Donald Yett) writes:
> Obviously you are not a scientist!  A true scientist must believe that
> anything is possible,  and then attempt to prove himself right or wrong.
> I choose to take the assumption that you do exist.

   PROOVE IT!

>  I also believe that anything is possible until it can be proven otherwise.

   PROOVE IT!
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cbmvax!snark!beyonet!beyo
From: [e-mail] (Steve Urich)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: More Packet messages (fwd)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Apr 92 06:28:30 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Beyonet Network
Lines: 38

MSG # TR  SIZE TO     FROM   @BBS   DATE    TITLE
 4574 B$  3325 DEBATE KA1ULT ALLUS  920404 UFOs: But seriously, folks...
Forwarding path: WB3EUF KA3FMO NO8M WA8BXN WB8LVP W3IXR KA3OEM NM3G
KA3SFC VE3SNP VE3OY VE3FJB VE3KYT VE3NAV VE2FKB VE2CEV VE2CRL VE2CSC
WA2SPL K1RQG WA1WOK WB1DSW K1UGM WA1PHY

Okay, so I made my wisecrack about there always being objects in the sky that I
can't identify.  Now my real opinion on aliens and stuff like that: I BELIEVE!
I think Mark, N1FJD, explained my reasons better than I can here.  If I
remember right, I think that the great Gene Roddenberry himself once figured
that if you take all the planets in the galaxy and call most of them
uninhabitable, or having no intelligent life, or having intelligent life that
destroyed itself already, etc. etc. etc. there are still well over 3 MILLION
planets out there that could support civilized, intelligent life.  That's as
xxx a lot of possibilities!  And with that many, I can't imagine that we're
alone.  I suppose that maybe they have their own "Prime Directive," which is to
not interfere with lesser developed cultures, such as ours.  Maybe when mankind
matures enough they will make contact.  Or maybe Douglas Adams's vision will
come true - the dolphins will leave just before the Earth is destroyed to make
way for a hyperspatial bypass five minutes before the ultimate question of
Life, the Universe, and Everything is determined!  (The answer has already
been established as 42...)  I don't buy a lot of these stories about how
aliens come down and tell people to be excellent to each other, but I do
believe that somewhere out there someone is watching us - maybe listening to
our radio transmissions - maybe receiving this very debate right now!  Yet
another reason to compose packet messages well - aliens are watching! :-)
That's my view - let's hear yours!
73 - Justin, KA1ULT @ WA1PHY.#EMA.MA.USA.NA.EARTH.UNFDPL.MLKYWY

*** END OF MSG # 4574 from KA1ULT @ WA1PHY.#EMA.MA.USA.NA

--
 ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############
 ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA  USA    |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########
 ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############
 ####       #### snark!beyonet!beyo   |when I hit the Screen"  ####       ####
 ##    |_|    ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project  ##    |_|    ##
 ##           ##-----------------------------------------------##           ##
 ####       ####  Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#SEPA.PA.USA.NA  ####       ####
_###############_______________________________________________###############_
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!rutgers!cmcl2!sbcs.sunysb.edu!csws17.ic.sunysb.edu!dtiberio
From: [e-mail] (David Tiberio)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: I2
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 5 Apr 92 09:55:19 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet poster)
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Lines: 14
Nntp-Posting-Host: csws17.ic.sunysb.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>am an alien.


    I am a UFO.





--
      //   David Tiberio  SUNY Stony Brook 2-3662  AMIGA  DDD-MEN
     //  Not the llama! Come here Earl; I want to tell you something...
   \X/        Liverpool, New York        Yes, I like 3D.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!tulane!ukma!nsisrv!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Mike Bur)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.stupidity,alt.exploding.kibo,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Apr 92 13:23:32 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet)
Organization: NASA/GSFC code 923
Lines: 68
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5195 alt.slack:2859 alt.stupidity:4465 alt.exploding.kibo:114 alt.religion.kibology:1472
Nntp-Posting-Host: soil.gsfc.nasa.gov

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Roger Lee) writes:
>In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:
>
>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:
>>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Matthew Fields) writes:
>>>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Julian F Waldby) writes:
>>>>>>In article <[e-mail]>
>>>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
>>>>>>> [e-mail] (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes:
>>>>>>> >In article <[e-mail]>
>>>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
>>>>>>> >>[e-mail] (Kevin L. McBride) writes:
>>>>>>> >>>[e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>>> >>>> In article <[e-mail]>
>>>>>>[e-mail] (barry.o.olson) writes:
>>>>>>> >>>> >In article <[e-mail]>,
>>>>>>[e-mail] (Russ Taylor) writes:
>>>>>>> >>>> >> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James
>>>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed]
>>>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS.
>>>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper.
>>>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH.  I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT.
>>>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*.
>>>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you
>>>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents?  A thousand-degree flame on you!
>>>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!)
>>>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth?
>>>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich
>>>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width.
>>>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it?
>>>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it
>>>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it.
>>>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor
>>>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor
>>>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer.
>>>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE?  PLEASE EXERCISE
>>>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT.
>>>>>>> >>>Okay.
>>>>>>> >>    Come on guys, I think he means it.  Don't follow up to this.
>>>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious.
>>>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up.
>>>>>>> >Or kill me.
>>>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess.
>>>>>>Shhhh!
>>>>>>> >[e-mail]
>>>>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming  305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139
>>>>>>> >(  the  nonibo  -ibo  )  [phone] [home]  [phone] [office]
>>>>>>>     No!  Don't follow up to this!  Whatever you do, _don't_ press
>>>>>>> that "f" button!  It's a sin!  It's a sin!  This is against the gods
>>>>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly!  See what you do!  You waste and
>>>>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens!  Nay, until the
>>>>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the
>>>>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up!  My
>>>>>>> _GOD_!  How can you even think it!  How can you dream it and still
>>>>>>> remain sane?!?!?  How can it be?!?!?!?!  Gah!!!!
>>>>>>> [e-mail]      | The meek shall inherit the earth,
>>>>>>> [e-mail] |     and the wise keep moving on...
>>>>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156     O    |-----------------------------------------
>>>>>>>  Amherst, NY  14226      +    |Ask me about the Secret Society!  Shhhh!
>>>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion?  I
>>>>>>missed the earlier parts.
>>>>There.  No more wasted "Bandwidth"
>>>Huh?
>>Duh!
>NOT!
Got.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!yale.edu!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!wharton.upenn.edu!millerl
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: It seems kinda simple to me.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Apr 92 15:38:09 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Newt World Order
Lines: 19
Nntp-Posting-Host: fred.wharton.upenn.edu

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) writes:
> How about using a "control group" of people who claim _not_ to
> have had an abduction experience or missing time episode?
> Would they suddenly begin "remembering" such episodes when
> placed under hypnosis?  A "false positive" result would certainly
> cast aspersions on the value of hypnosis as a tool.

This has been done, and the abduction theorists claimed that the newly
remembered abductions proved that the problem was even more widespread
than they had thought. The same thing happens with hypnotic regression
to recall satanist abuse, and hypnotic regression to remember childhood
sexual abuse, and so on. Hypnosis is a powerful tool to change what
people think; abduction theorists, among others, seem to forget this.

--
whoah,
+++++++++++++++++++++++23
Loren Miller                  internet: [e-mail]
Throw this screen against the wall, right now!
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!decwrl!pa.dec.com!shodha.enet.dec.com!timpson
From: [e-mail] (Steve Timpson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: I2
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Apr 92 13:58:22 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Lines: 6


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes...
>am an alien.


        Good for you!
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!ames!agate!cogsci.Berkeley.EDU!radzy
From: [e-mail] (Tim Omelan Radzykewycz)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: On cooperation
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Apr 92 15:37:50 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Institute of Cognitive Studies, U.C. Berkeley
Lines: 35
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5198 talk.religion.newage:9992 alt.paranormal:4750
NNTP-Posting-Host: cogsci.berkeley.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
> Cooperation doesn't mean giving up something that someone else wants,
> it means helping each other find suitable goals to solve problems.
> Compromise is each side giving up a little, cooperation is both sides
> getting what they want.  This will not create stagnation, but growth.

Not only will cooperation create growth instead of creating stagnation,
lack of cooperation will create the stagnation!

Using the same example (owl v.s. logger):

If the loggers and environmentalists cooperate, then things will
change somewhat, because they adopt new policies or new technologies
or SOMETHING, to enable them to achieve both goals.

If the loggers and environmentalists do NOT cooperate, then things
may remain the same: the loggers will continue to clear-cut, and the
environmentalists will continue to protest.  (Disclaimer: it is
still possible for things to change through some other mechanism,
such as legislation.)

In any case, cooperation does not create stagnation, and will probably
increase growth, possibly after a small initial cost.

------------------------------------------------------------
                    |
    -- radzy            |
                    |  An it harm none,
    Tim Omelan Radzykewycz         |  do as ye will.
    The Incredible Radical Cabbage    |
                    |
    [e-mail]    |
                    |
------------------------------------------------------------
> Hi! I am a .signature virus. Copy me into your .signature to join in!
Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!darwin.sura.net!uvaarpa!murdoch!newton.acc.Virginia.EDU!jmb5b
From: [e-mail] (John M. Bozeman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: New Age/Christian Survey -Help!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Apr 92 03:47:08 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Virginia
Lines: 55
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5199 alt.pagan:14073 alt.paranormal:4751 talk.religion.newage:9993
Ireallyam: jmb5b

I am about to give a guest lecture to a sociology class at the
University of Virginia.  The Topic:  "Christianity and the New Age
Look at Each Other."  When Writing about such subjects, I like to
talk to the people who actually practice the faith.  So I would
like to ask anyone who would care to answer...

1.  What makes a person a Christian?

2.  What makes a person a follower of the New Age?

3.  What do you think of evangelical-fundamentalist-charismatic--
pentecostal Christians?

4.  What do you think of mainline Protestant Christianity (i.e.,
Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, etc.)

5.  What do you think of Catholics?

6.  What do you think of channeling?  meditation?  pyramids?  Tarot
cards?  astrology?  crystals?  UFO's?

7.  Who or what is God?  Who is/was Jesus?  Who or what is the Holy
Spirit?  Do you think the literal Resurrection of Jesus literally
took place?  What do you think is the meaning of the resurrection?

8.  Do you think Jesus will come again?  What do you think of the
Bible?

9.  Why do you consider yourself a follower of the New Age?  What
do you think is (are) the central tenets of your beliefs?  How did
you come to hold these beliefs?  Are you a member of any formal
religious group(s)?  Which ones?

10. What is your age?  sex?  Occupation?  [Optional, for
statistical use only:  are you single-married-divorced-widowed-
living with someone-under a vow of celibacy?  hetero-homo-bisexual?
What race do you describe yourself as?]

11. [More optional questions:  What happens to us when we die?
What makes an individual good or bad?  Do you think that there is
an absolute standard of right and wrong?  What do you think are the
central problems of American and World society?  How does your
faith address these problems, if at all?  Do you think that your
faith is the only way to salvation or self-fulfillment?  Is it the
best way?

------------------

Thank you for your time.  I may wish to quote from this material in
class and/or (maybe) in a later scholarly work; quotation will be
anonymous if requested.  As I mentioned above, sensitive material
is for statistical use only.

               John Bozeman ([e-mail])
                            ([e-mail])
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Don Ecker and Phil Klass!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 4 Apr 92 02:50:00 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO
Lines: 31


 * Forwarded from "ParaNet UFO Echo"
 * Originally from Michael Corbin
 * Originally dated 04-03-92 19:47

On April 24, 1992, MICAP (Multi-national Investigations Cooperative on Aerial
Phenomena), in conjunction with ParaNet Information Service, will sponsor an
illustrated forum on contrasting viewpoints within the UFO research community.
This forum will be moderated before a live audience with questions following
the presentation.  The guests will be Don Ecker, Research Director for UFO
Magazine and a long-standing contributor of ParaNet, and Phil Klass, avionics
editor (retired) for Aviation Weekly and Space Technology, and known among the
UFO research community as an avid detractor of the ETH (Extra-Terrestrial
Hypothesis).  Ecker will demonstrate that the phenomena has a basis in reality
and that it has potential implications for possible non-prosaic explanations,
whereas Klass will demonstrate a prosaic/earthly explanation for mysterious and
seemingly inexplicable UFO incidents.

The "square-off" will begin at 7:00 P.M., at the Denver North Holiday Inn
Holidome at I-25 and 120th Avenue.  The title of the presentation is UFOs?
Modern Myth, Manifest Technology, or ...?

This will be an interesting exchange of ideas and information and is expected
to attract skeptics, believers and the intellectually curious.  For ticket
inforamtion, please contact MICAP at [phone].  Hotel accomodations are
available at reasonable rates.

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!milton!smedley
From: [e-mail] (William Warner)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.stupidity,alt.exploding.kibo,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again...
Message-ID: <smedley.702576727@milton>
Date: 6 Apr 92 16:12:07 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Washington
Lines: 71
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5201 alt.slack:2861 alt.stupidity:4470 alt.exploding.kibo:118 alt.religion.kibology:1477

[e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Roger Lee) writes:
>>In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:
>>
>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:
>>>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Matthew Fields) writes:
>>>>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Julian F Waldby) writes:
>>>>>>>In article <[e-mail]>
>>>>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
>>>>>>>> [e-mail] (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes:
>>>>>>>> >In article <[e-mail]>
>>>>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
>>>>>>>> >>[e-mail] (Kevin L. McBride) writes:
>>>>>>>> >>>[e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>>>> >>>> In article <[e-mail]>
>>>>>>>[e-mail] (barry.o.olson) writes:
>>>>>>>> >>>> >In article <[e-mail]>,
>>>>>>>[e-mail] (Russ Taylor) writes:
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James
>>>>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed]
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS.
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper.
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH.  I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT.
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*.
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents?  A thousand-degree flame on you!
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!)
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth?
>>>>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich
>>>>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width.
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it?
>>>>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it
>>>>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it.
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor
>>>>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor
>>>>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer.
>>>>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE?  PLEASE EXERCISE
>>>>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT.
>>>>>>>> >>>Okay.
>>>>>>>> >>    Come on guys, I think he means it.  Don't follow up to this.
>>>>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious.
>>>>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up.
>>>>>>>> >Or kill me.
>>>>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess.
>>>>>>>Shhhh!
>>>>>>>> >[e-mail]
>>>>>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming  305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139
>>>>>>>> >(  the  nonibo  -ibo  )  [phone] [home]  [phone] [office]
>>>>>>>>     No!  Don't follow up to this!  Whatever you do, _don't_ press
>>>>>>>> that "f" button!  It's a sin!  It's a sin!  This is against the gods
>>>>>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly!  See what you do!  You waste and
>>>>>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens!  Nay, until the
>>>>>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the
>>>>>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up!  My
>>>>>>>> _GOD_!  How can you even think it!  How can you dream it and still
>>>>>>>> remain sane?!?!?  How can it be?!?!?!?!  Gah!!!!
>>>>>>>> [e-mail]      | The meek shall inherit the earth,
>>>>>>>> [e-mail] |     and the wise keep moving on...
>>>>>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156     O    |-----------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>  Amherst, NY  14226      +    |Ask me about the Secret Society!  Shhhh!
>>>>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion?  I
>>>>>>>missed the earlier parts.
>>>>>There.  No more wasted "Bandwidth"
>>>>Huh?
>>>Duh!
>>NOT!
>Got.
Gott.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!cs.uwp.edu!tamm
From: [e-mail] (Ernst Tamm)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.stupidity,alt.exploding.kibo,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Apr 92 17:11:46 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <smedley.702576727@milton>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Parkside
Lines: 36
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5202 alt.slack:2863 alt.stupidity:4474 alt.exploding.kibo:122 alt.religion.kibology:1483

>>>>>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed]
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS.
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper.
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH.  I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT.
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*.
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents?  A thousand-degree flame on you!
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!)
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth?
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich
>>>>>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width.
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it?
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it
>>>>>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it.
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor
>>>>>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer.
>>>>>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE?  PLEASE EXERCISE
>>>>>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT.
>>>>>>>>> >>>Okay.
>>>>>>>>> >>    Come on guys, I think he means it.  Don't follow up to this.
>>>>>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious.
>>>>>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up.
>>>>>>>>> >Or kill me.
>>>>>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess.
>>>>>>>>Shhhh!
>>>>>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion?  I
>>>>>>>>missed the earlier parts.
>>>>>>There.  No more wasted "Bandwidth"
>>>>>Huh?
>>>>Duh!
>>>NOT!
>>Got.
>Gott.
>>Gott-a have the last word, dontcha ??
Path: ns-mx!uunet!haven.umd.edu!darwin.sura.net!ukma!nsisrv!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Mike Bur)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.stupidity,alt.exploding.kibo,alt.religion.kibology,alt.tasteless
Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Apr 92 16:51:35 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <smedley.702576727@milton>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet)
Organization: NASA/GSFC code 923
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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5203 alt.slack:2864 alt.stupidity:4475 alt.exploding.kibo:123 alt.religion.kibology:1484 alt.tasteless:9614
Nntp-Posting-Host: soil.gsfc.nasa.gov

In article <smedley.702576727@milton> [e-mail] (William Warner) writes:
>[e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:
>
>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Roger Lee) writes:
>>>In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:
>>>
>>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:
>>>>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Matthew Fields) writes:
>>>>>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Julian F Waldby) writes:
>>>>>>>>In article <[e-mail]>
>>>>>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
>>>>>>>>> [e-mail] (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes:
>>>>>>>>> >In article <[e-mail]>
>>>>>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
>>>>>>>>> >>[e-mail] (Kevin L. McBride) writes:
>>>>>>>>> >>>[e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>>>>> >>>> In article <[e-mail]>
>>>>>>>>[e-mail] (barry.o.olson) writes:
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >In article <[e-mail]>,
>>>>>>>>[e-mail] (Russ Taylor) writes:
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James
>>>>>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed]
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS.
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper.
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH.  I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT.
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*.
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents?  A thousand-degree flame on you!
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!)
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth?
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich
>>>>>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width.
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it?
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it
>>>>>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it.
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor
>>>>>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer.
>>>>>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE?  PLEASE EXERCISE
>>>>>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT.
>>>>>>>>> >>>Okay.
>>>>>>>>> >>    Come on guys, I think he means it.  Don't follow up to this.
>>>>>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious.
>>>>>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up.
>>>>>>>>> >Or kill me.
>>>>>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess.
>>>>>>>>Shhhh!
>>>>>>>>> >[e-mail]
>>>>>>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming  305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139
>>>>>>>>> >(  the  nonibo  -ibo  )  [phone] [home]  [phone] [office]
>>>>>>>>>     No!  Don't follow up to this!  Whatever you do, _don't_ press
>>>>>>>>> that "f" button!  It's a sin!  It's a sin!  This is against the gods
>>>>>>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly!  See what you do!  You waste and
>>>>>>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens!  Nay, until the
>>>>>>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the
>>>>>>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up!  My
>>>>>>>>> _GOD_!  How can you even think it!  How can you dream it and still
>>>>>>>>> remain sane?!?!?  How can it be?!?!?!?!  Gah!!!!
>>>>>>>>> [e-mail]      | The meek shall inherit the earth,
>>>>>>>>> [e-mail] |     and the wise keep moving on...
>>>>>>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156     O    |-----------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>  Amherst, NY  14226      +    |Ask me about the Secret Society!  Shhhh!
>>>>>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion?  I
>>>>>>>>missed the earlier parts.
>>>>>>There.  No more wasted "Bandwidth"
>>>>>Huh?
>>>>Duh!
>>>NOT!
>>Got.
>Gott.
cooler.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!anson
From: [e-mail] (Anson Kennedy)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: It seems kinda simple to me.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Apr 92 15:24:50 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <1992Apr5.204639.11982@anasaz>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 37

billy@anasaz (Bill Moore) writes:

>->
>->How about using a "control group" of people who claim _not_ to
>->have had an abduction experience or missing time episode?
>->Would they suddenly begin "remembering" such episodes when
>->placed under hypnosis?  A "false positive" result would certainly
>->cast aspersions on the value of hypnosis as a tool.
>->
>Well, most "abductees" don't calim to have been abducted until AFTER they're
>hypnotised so they would fall into  the control group to start with.

I have heard of some research done in the 70s which involved hypnotising
people who had little or no knowledge of UFOs and abductions.  Apparently,
under hypnosis the people all related accounts very similar to the "classic"
abduction scenario.  This indicates that those "classic" elements *might*
be a natural response to the suggestion of being abducted.

Unfortunately, I have as yet been unsuccessful in tracing this research.  So
it may not be too reliable.

>Unfortunately, most of the really good abduction stories are illicited by
>unprofessional hypnotists and transcripts (when available) of the sessions
>usually indicate significant suggestion by the hypnotist.  I don't know of
>any important cases where a professional (ie, psychiatrist, doctor, etc.)
>with no interest in UFOs has reported an "abduction" story.  Bud Hopkins, for
>example, goes around the country hypnotizing people BEFORE he brings them
>to a real hypnotist and then gets paid for the books he writes about it.

You don't mean to suggest they might be in it for the money!?! ;-)
--

Anson Kennedy
Secretary of the Georgia Skeptics (but don't even THINK I speak for them!)

                  "If I had been the Virgin Mary, I would have said 'No.'"
                                      -Margaret "Stevie" Smith (1902-1971)
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: It seems kinda simple to me.
Message-ID: <d#[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Apr 92 16:55:31 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <1992Apr5.204639.11982@anasaz> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 50

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Anson Kennedy) writes:
>
>I have heard of some research done in the 70s which involved hypnotising
>people who had little or no knowledge of UFOs and abductions.  Apparently,
>under hypnosis the people all related accounts very similar to the "classic"
>abduction scenario.  This indicates that those "classic" elements *might*
>be a natural response to the suggestion of being abducted.
>
>Unfortunately, I have as yet been unsuccessful in tracing this research.  So
>it may not be too reliable.
>
 No, it is reliable, at least by the standards of UFOlogy, in any
 case. The experimenter was Alvin Lawson, a psychologist at Cal State,
 Long Beach. He found that people requested to simply "imagine" abductions
 told stories that were nearly indistinguishable from "real" UFO abductees.
 His conclusion was that "abduction" narratives are just a re-telling of
 one's memory of one's own birth, which poses a number of difficulties.
 Lawson's research has been published in a number of places, I don't
 have the references right now.


>billy@anasaz (Bill Moore) writes:
>>Unfortunately, most of the really good abduction stories are illicited by
>>unprofessional hypnotists and transcripts (when available) of the sessions
>>usually indicate significant suggestion by the hypnotist.  I don't know of
>>any important cases where a professional (ie, psychiatrist, doctor, etc.)
>>with no interest in UFOs has reported an "abduction" story.
>
Have you ever heard of Betty and Barney Hill? Dr. Simon, who performed
the hypnosis, was an extremely well-respected psychiatrist, at the
top of his profession.

One significant difference, though: Simon *didn't believe* the Hills'
abduction story. He clearly stated on several occasions that, in his
judgement, it was a fantasy; Betty made up the story, and told it
to Barney so many times, and so convincingly, that he came to believe
it, too.

--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

     "In the 1970's the world will undergo famines - hundreds of millions
     of people are going to starve to death in spite of any crash programs
     embarked upon now ... in 1985, when it is calculated [under the most
     optimistic scenario] that the major die-back will be over, ..."

                       Dr. Paul Ehrlich, "The Population Bomb," 1968
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!raj
From: [e-mail] (Roger Lee)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.stupidity,alt.exploding.kibo,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Apr 92 20:20:47 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 77
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5206 alt.slack:2866 alt.stupidity:4479 alt.exploding.kibo:125 alt.religion.kibology:1487

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Roger Lee) writes:
>>In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:
>>
>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:
>>>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Matthew Fields) writes:
>>>>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Julian F Waldby) writes:
>>>>>>>In article <[e-mail]>
>>>>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
>>>>>>>> [e-mail] (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes:
>>>>>>>> >In article <[e-mail]>
>>>>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
>>>>>>>> >>[e-mail] (Kevin L. McBride) writes:
>>>>>>>> >>>[e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>>>> >>>> In article <[e-mail]>
>>>>>>>[e-mail] (barry.o.olson) writes:
>>>>>>>> >>>> >In article <[e-mail]>,
>>>>>>>[e-mail] (Russ Taylor) writes:
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James
>>>>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed]
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS.
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper.
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH.  I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT.
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*.
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents?  A thousand-degree flame on you!
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!)
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth?
>>>>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich
>>>>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width.
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it?
>>>>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it
>>>>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it.
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor
>>>>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor
>>>>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer.
>>>>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE?  PLEASE EXERCISE
>>>>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT.
>>>>>>>> >>>Okay.
>>>>>>>> >>    Come on guys, I think he means it.  Don't follow up to this.
>>>>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious.
>>>>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up.
>>>>>>>> >Or kill me.
>>>>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess.
>>>>>>>Shhhh!
>>>>>>>> >[e-mail]
>>>>>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming  305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139
>>>>>>>> >(  the  nonibo  -ibo  )  [phone] [home]  [phone] [office]
>>>>>>>>     No!  Don't follow up to this!  Whatever you do, _don't_ press
>>>>>>>> that "f" button!  It's a sin!  It's a sin!  This is against the gods
>>>>>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly!  See what you do!  You waste and
>>>>>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens!  Nay, until the
>>>>>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the
>>>>>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up!  My
>>>>>>>> _GOD_!  How can you even think it!  How can you dream it and still
>>>>>>>> remain sane?!?!?  How can it be?!?!?!?!  Gah!!!!
>>>>>>>> [e-mail]      | The meek shall inherit the earth,
>>>>>>>> [e-mail] |     and the wise keep moving on...
>>>>>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156     O    |-----------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>  Amherst, NY  14226      +    |Ask me about the Secret Society!  Shhhh!
>>>>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion?  I
>>>>>>>missed the earlier parts.
>>>>>There.  No more wasted "Bandwidth"
>>>>Huh?
>>>Duh!
>>NOT!
>Got.
it.
--
[e-mail]
I speak for myself.

COME ONE! COME ALL! COME JOIN ME AT THE CHURCH OF APPLIANTOLOGY!!!
                    -- L. Ron Hoover
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!jvnc.net!darwin.sura.net!udel!sbcs.sunysb.edu!csws17.ic.sunysb.edu!dtiberio
From: [e-mail] (David Tiberio)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.stupidity,alt.exploding.kibo,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Apr 92 21:38:24 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <smedley.702576727@milton> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet poster)
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Lines: 43
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5207 alt.slack:2867 alt.stupidity:4480 alt.exploding.kibo:126 alt.religion.kibology:1489
Nntp-Posting-Host: csws17.ic.sunysb.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Ernst Tamm) writes:
>>>>>>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed]
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS.
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper.
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH.  I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT.
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*.
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents?  A thousand-degree flame on you!
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!)
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth?
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width.
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it?
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it.
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer.
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE?  PLEASE EXERCISE
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT.
>>>>>>>>>> >>>Okay.
>>>>>>>>>> >>    Come on guys, I think he means it.  Don't follow up to this.
>>>>>>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious.
>>>>>>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up.
>>>>>>>>>> >Or kill me.
>>>>>>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess.
>>>>>>>>>Shhhh!
>>>>>>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion?  I
>>>>>>>>>missed the earlier parts.
>>>>>>>There.  No more wasted "Bandwidth"
>>>>>>Huh?
>>>>>Duh!
>>>>NOT!
>>>Got.
>>Gott.
>>>Gott-a have the last word, dontcha ??
Got to halve the last world.

--
      //   David Tiberio  SUNY Stony Brook 2-3662  AMIGA  DDD-MEN
     //  Not the llama! Come here Earl; I want to tell you something...
   \X/        Liverpool, New York        Yes, I like 3D.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!ukma!nsisrv!usenet
From: [e-mail] (Mike Bur)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.stupidity,alt.exploding.kibo,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 6 Apr 92 22:27:08 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet)
Organization: NASA/GSFC code 923
Lines: 73
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5208 alt.slack:2868 alt.stupidity:4485 alt.exploding.kibo:129 alt.religion.kibology:1492
Nntp-Posting-Host: ultisol.gsfc.nasa.gov

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Roger Lee) writes:
>In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:
>
>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Roger Lee) writes:
>>>In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:
>>>
>>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:
>>>>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Matthew Fields) writes:
>>>>>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Julian F Waldby) writes:
>>>>>>>>In article <[e-mail]>
>>>>>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
>>>>>>>>> [e-mail] (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes:
>>>>>>>>> >In article <[e-mail]>
>>>>>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
>>>>>>>>> >>[e-mail] (Kevin L. McBride) writes:
>>>>>>>>> >>>[e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>>>>> >>>> In article <[e-mail]>
>>>>>>>>[e-mail] (barry.o.olson) writes:
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >In article <[e-mail]>,
>>>>>>>>[e-mail] (Russ Taylor) writes:
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James
>>>>>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed]
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS.
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper.
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH.  I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT.
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*.
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents?  A thousand-degree flame on you!
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!)
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth?
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich
>>>>>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width.
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it?
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it
>>>>>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it.
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor
>>>>>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer.
>>>>>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE?  PLEASE EXERCISE
>>>>>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT.
>>>>>>>>> >>>Okay.
>>>>>>>>> >>    Come on guys, I think he means it.  Don't follow up to this.
>>>>>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious.
>>>>>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up.
>>>>>>>>> >Or kill me.
>>>>>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess.
>>>>>>>>Shhhh!
>>>>>>>>> >[e-mail]
>>>>>>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming  305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139
>>>>>>>>> >(  the  nonibo  -ibo  )  [phone] [home]  [phone] [office]
>>>>>>>>>     No!  Don't follow up to this!  Whatever you do, _don't_ press
>>>>>>>>> that "f" button!  It's a sin!  It's a sin!  This is against the gods
>>>>>>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly!  See what you do!  You waste and
>>>>>>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens!  Nay, until the
>>>>>>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the
>>>>>>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up!  My
>>>>>>>>> _GOD_!  How can you even think it!  How can you dream it and still
>>>>>>>>> remain sane?!?!?  How can it be?!?!?!?!  Gah!!!!
>>>>>>>>> [e-mail]      | The meek shall inherit the earth,
>>>>>>>>> [e-mail] |     and the wise keep moving on...
>>>>>>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156     O    |-----------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>  Amherst, NY  14226      +    |Ask me about the Secret Society!  Shhhh!
>>>>>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion?  I
>>>>>>>>missed the earlier parts.
>>>>>>There.  No more wasted "Bandwidth"
>>>>>Huh?
>>>>Duh!
>>>NOT!
>>Got.
>it.
Zit.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.iastate.edu!du139-203.cc.iastate.edu!lyodav
From: [e-mail] (David A Lyon)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.stupidity,alt.exploding.kibo,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Apr 92 01:51:01 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
Lines: 71
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5209 alt.slack:2872 alt.stupidity:4489 alt.exploding.kibo:132 alt.religion.kibology:1496

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Roger Lee) writes:
>>In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:
>>
>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:
>>>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Matthew Fields) writes:
>>>>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Julian F Waldby) writes:
>>>>>>>In article <[e-mail]>
>>>>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
>>>>>>>> [e-mail] (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes:
>>>>>>>> >In article <[e-mail]>
>>>>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
>>>>>>>> >>[e-mail] (Kevin L. McBride) writes:
>>>>>>>> >>>[e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>>>> >>>> In article <[e-mail]>
>>>>>>>[e-mail] (barry.o.olson) writes:
>>>>>>>> >>>> >In article <[e-mail]>,
>>>>>>>[e-mail] (Russ Taylor) writes:
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James
>>>>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed]
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS.
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper.
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH.  I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT.
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*.
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents?  A thousand-degree flame on you!
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!)
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth?
>>>>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich
>>>>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width.
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it?
>>>>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it
>>>>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it.
>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor
>>>>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor
>>>>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer.
>>>>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE?  PLEASE EXERCISE
>>>>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT.
>>>>>>>> >>>Okay.
>>>>>>>> >>    Come on guys, I think he means it.  Don't follow up to this.
>>>>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious.
>>>>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up.
>>>>>>>> >Or kill me.
>>>>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess.
>>>>>>>Shhhh!
>>>>>>>> >[e-mail]
>>>>>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming  305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139
>>>>>>>> >(  the  nonibo  -ibo  )  [phone] [home]  [phone] [office]
>>>>>>>>     No!  Don't follow up to this!  Whatever you do, _don't_ press
>>>>>>>> that "f" button!  It's a sin!  It's a sin!  This is against the gods
>>>>>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly!  See what you do!  You waste and
>>>>>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens!  Nay, until the
>>>>>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the
>>>>>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up!  My
>>>>>>>> _GOD_!  How can you even think it!  How can you dream it and still
>>>>>>>> remain sane?!?!?  How can it be?!?!?!?!  Gah!!!!
>>>>>>>> [e-mail]      | The meek shall inherit the earth,
>>>>>>>> [e-mail] |     and the wise keep moving on...
>>>>>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156     O    |-----------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>  Amherst, NY  14226      +    |Ask me about the Secret Society!  Shhhh!
>>>>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion?  I
>>>>>>>missed the earlier parts.
>>>>>There.  No more wasted "Bandwidth"
>>>>Huh?
>>>Duh!
>>NOT!
>Got.
Ebg. (13)
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!mcws!NewsMeister
From: [e-mail] (Sasquatch)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Pt 1/2: The Pleiadians: Awakening
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Apr 92 00:10:34 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Lines: 5

How is it that you come to use our term for your section of the
universe?i.e. the Pleiades.

 * Origin: -=<*The Centre o' the Universe*>=- Glendale, CA - Earth
(1:102/851.4)
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!kira.egr.msu.edu!klein
From: [e-mail] (Jeffrey Klein)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.stupidity,alt.exploding.kibo,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Apr 92 02:45:34 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <smedley.702576727@milton>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Michigan State University College of Stunt Piloting
Lines: 77
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5211 alt.slack:2874 alt.stupidity:4492 alt.exploding.kibo:134 alt.religion.kibology:1498

In article <smedley.702576727@milton> [e-mail] (William Warner) writes:
>[e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:
>
>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Roger Lee) writes:
>>>In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:
>>>
>>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:
>>>>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Matthew Fields) writes:
>>>>>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Julian F Waldby) writes:
>>>>>>>>In article <[e-mail]>
>>>>>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
>>>>>>>>> [e-mail] (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes:
>>>>>>>>> >In article <[e-mail]>
>>>>>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
>>>>>>>>> >>[e-mail] (Kevin L. McBride) writes:
>>>>>>>>> >>>[e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>>>>> >>>> In article <[e-mail]>
>>>>>>>>[e-mail] (barry.o.olson) writes:
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >In article <[e-mail]>,
>>>>>>>>[e-mail] (Russ Taylor) writes:
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James
>>>>>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed]
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS.
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper.
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH.  I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT.
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*.
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents?  A thousand-degree flame on you!
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!)
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth?
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich
>>>>>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width.
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it?
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it
>>>>>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it.
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor
>>>>>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor
>>>>>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer.
>>>>>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE?  PLEASE EXERCISE
>>>>>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT.
>>>>>>>>> >>>Okay.
>>>>>>>>> >>    Come on guys, I think he means it.  Don't follow up to this.
>>>>>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious.
>>>>>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up.
>>>>>>>>> >Or kill me.
>>>>>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess.
>>>>>>>>Shhhh!
>>>>>>>>> >[e-mail]
>>>>>>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming  305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139
>>>>>>>>> >(  the  nonibo  -ibo  )  [phone] [home]  [phone] [office]
>>>>>>>>>     No!  Don't follow up to this!  Whatever you do, _don't_ press
>>>>>>>>> that "f" button!  It's a sin!  It's a sin!  This is against the gods
>>>>>>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly!  See what you do!  You waste and
>>>>>>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens!  Nay, until the
>>>>>>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the
>>>>>>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up!  My
>>>>>>>>> _GOD_!  How can you even think it!  How can you dream it and still
>>>>>>>>> remain sane?!?!?  How can it be?!?!?!?!  Gah!!!!
>>>>>>>>> [e-mail]      | The meek shall inherit the earth,
>>>>>>>>> [e-mail] |     and the wise keep moving on...
>>>>>>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156     O    |-----------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>  Amherst, NY  14226      +    |Ask me about the Secret Society!  Shhhh!
>>>>>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion?  I
>>>>>>>>missed the earlier parts.
>>>>>>There.  No more wasted "Bandwidth"
>>>>>Huh?
>>>>Duh!
>>>NOT!
>>Got.
>Gott.
What?
--
Jeff Klein                  | "One of you is a Charlie Brown mutant,
                            |  and the other has a hand growing out
[e-mail]      |  of his(?) head!" - Blue Bunny
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!mrccrc!crc.ac.uk!sgamble
From: [e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Me
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Apr 92 17:05:55 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293)
Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK
Lines: 27
Nntp-Posting-Host: silicon

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (JEAN-FRANCOIS PAQUETTE) writes:
>
>     Hi, my name id R-94-N8.  Im an Alien living here since 1987.  I came
> from the planet Zora, and I have a special mission...  God does not exist as
> we imagine him;  In reality, God is a number.  And the goal of my inter-
> galactical trip is to find that number and then put it on floppy-disk
> backup.
>
>     And when this day will be, the world will be saved.
>

This group is called alt.alien.visitors. If you have been living here since
1987 you no longer count as a visitor.

If you are an Alien then lets see some evidence. I have an entirely open
mind on this. Come on, convince me you are an Alien.

Should you not be an Alien, then find somewherelse to play like
alt.mentality.three-year-old

Steve.

--
(Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!)
Steve Gamble, Computing Services,
Clinical Research Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK.
Phone: [phone]  JANET: [e-mail] INTERNET: [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!mrccrc!crc.ac.uk!sgamble
From: [e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: I2
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Apr 92 10:32:38 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293)
Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK
Lines: 31
Nntp-Posting-Host: silicon

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (David Tiberio) writes:
>
>
>     I am a UFO.
>              ^^^^

Boy, do you have an identity crisis!! A UFO is an Unidentified Flying
Object, it means literally that something that cannot be identified
that is seen in the sky. So if you are a UFO, that means you are
unidenified which means you don't really know what you are!

Perhaps you mean you are an extraterrestrial spacecraft (which is
different from a UFO). Some UFOs may by spacecraft, but not all
spacecraft are UFOs.

If you really are an extra-terrestrial spacecraft, please file a flight
plan here - I would really like to get some evidence of intelligent
life from elsewhere in the Universe.

Of course, there is always the chance that your comment is meant as some
childish wind-up. If you are going to do that sort of thing, at least
get it logically correct!

Steve.

--
(Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!)
Steve Gamble, Computing Services,
Clinical Research Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK.
Phone: [phone]  JANET: [e-mail] INTERNET: [e-mail]

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: "Imaginary" Abductees (was: It seems kinda simple to me.)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Apr 92 14:20:56 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 122
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5214 sci.skeptic:22482


        Since people have heard about the study of "imaginary
        UFO abductees" (as if they were different from "real"
        ones!), and are asking about them, I am posting the
        following summary of a talk by Dr. Alvin Lawson, who
        performed the study.




                      HYPNOSIS OF IMAGINARY UFO "ABDUCTEES"
                        (Abstract and Introduction only)

             by Alvin H. Lawson

             English Department
             California  State University,
             Long Beach California, U.S.A 90840


             In  an  attempt to evaluate objectively the  claims  of  UFO
        "abductees," imaginary abductions were induced hypnotically in  a
        group  of  volunteers who had no significant knowledge  of  UFOs.
        Eight situational questions comprising the major components of  a
        typical abduction account were asked of each subject.
             Although the researchers expected major dissimilarities,  an
        averaged  comparison of data from four imaginary and four  "real"
        abduction  narratives  showed no substantive  differences.  Also,
        extensive  patterns echoing well-established details from  "real"
        UFO   reports  emerged  from  the  "naive"  subjects'   imaginary
        sessions.
             There is as yet no satisfactory explanation for the patterns
        and  other similarities between imaginary and "real"  abductions,
        But,  more  significantly,  there  are  parallels  between  these
        patterns  and the "image constants" or recurrent descriptions  of
        form,  color, and movement reported by subjects  in  drug-induced
        hallucination  experiments, and in SO-called "death"  narratives,
        among  other mental processes. Thus there is reason to accept  at
        least  some  parts  of  "real"  abductees'  stories  as  accurate
        reflections of what their sensory mechanisms have reported.
             However,  despite the many similarities, there  are  crucial
        differences--such  as  alleged  physical  effects  and   multiple
        witnesses--which  argue  that  UFO abductions  are  separate  and
        distinct from imaginary and hallucinatory experiences. With these
        distinctions in mind, an abduction model is proposed:
                  Witnesses   _really  perceive_  images--from   whatever
                  source--such  as bright and pulsating lights,  lattice-
                  textured  forms  moving randomly in  the  sky,  lighted
                  tunnels,   humanoid  figures,  etc.   These   abduction
                  constants are combined with data from the  imagination,
                  memory,  and  existing UFO data known by  witnesses  to
                  create  a "real" UFO encounter. The subjective  reality
                  of  the intense hallucinatory structure  convinces  the
                  witnesses  that the entire experience is  a  physically
                  real event. Subsequently they may report the "truth" as
                  they  have experienced it, although actual  occurrences
                  remain unclear.
             The  complexities of the UFO phenomenon are affirmed by  the
        above  model since still unexplained are many  puzzling  matters,
        including the greatest mystery of all, the nature of the stimulus
        which  initiates the imagery in the witness and so  triggers  the
        abduction sequence.
             The  writer  prefers a dualistic UFO hypothesis.  But  while
        there  is a continuing absence of unambiguous physical  evidence,
        this   study   concludes   that   UFOs   are--in    psychological
        terms--unquestionably  real, and further, that  non-physical  UFO
        research is promising.

        Key-words:  Abduction  sequence; animals; apparitions  ;  "death"
        narratives;   drug-induced  hallucinations;   entities;   exotic;
        hallucinations;  human;  humanoid;  hypnosis;  image   constants;
        imaginary abductees; model abduction; "naive" subjects; patterns;
        "real" abductees; robot; stimulus.

                       II. INTRODUCTION

             Since  early 1977, sixteen volunteers have  been  hypnotized
        and  given  imaginary UFO "abductions" by  a  clinical  hypnotist
        working  with  a group of Southern  California  ufologists.*  The
        purpose  of this paper is to describe the series  of  experiments
        and  to discuss their implications for UFO research in the  light
        of  several analogs to abduction experiences, particularly  drug-
        induced hallucinations.
             The   imaginary  "abductees"  were  volunteers  from   local
        colleges  and communities. The group was composed of ten  females
        and six males and ranged in age from 12 to 65. Based upon a brief
        questionnaire, the oral portion of which was administered  before
        and again during hypnosis as a check, all subjects were judged to
        be  "naive"--that  is,  generally ignorant  about  UFOs  and  the
        extensive if uneven literature about them.
             The  imaginary abduction study came about primarily  because
        of researchers' dissatisfactions with results from allegedly real
        abduction  case  investigations.  Objections  included:  1)   the
        uncertain  credibility of witnesses; 2) the ambiguous  nature  of
        the anecdotal and other evidence supporting abduction  witnesses;
        and 3) unresolved questions as to the efficacy of hypnosis and/or
        hypnotic procedures followed in particular cases. The researchers
        be*an   the  study   with  the  assumption  that  the   imaginary
        abductions  would  be clearly distinct from "real" cases  and  so
        would offer some proof of the "reality" of actual abductions. But
        what we found was both surprising and unsettling, and much of the
        intervening  time  has  been spent in trying  to  deal  with  the
        implications of those results.


             --------------------------------------------------------
             *The  group included Dr. W.C, McCall, John De  Herrera,  and
        the author. Earlier versions of this paper were presented at  the
        1977  MUFON  UFO Symposium (Scottsdale, Ariz.), and at  the  1978
        meeting of the American Psychological Association (Toronto).
--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

     "In the 1970's the world will undergo famines - hundreds of millions
     of people are going to starve to death in spite of any crash programs
     embarked upon now ... in 1985, when it is calculated [under the most
     optimistic scenario] that the major die-back will be over, ..."

                       Dr. Paul Ehrlich, "The Population Bomb," 1968
Path: ns-mx!uunet!bonnie.concordia.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!umrutko0
From: [e-mail] (Chris Rutkowski)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Don Ecker and Phil Klass!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Apr 92 15:04:02 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Lines: 33

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Michael Corbin) writes:


>On April 24, 1992, MICAP (Multi-national Investigations Cooperative on Aerial
>Phenomena), in conjunction with ParaNet Information Service, will sponsor an
>illustrated forum on contrasting viewpoints within the UFO research community.
>This forum will be moderated before a live audience with questions following
>the presentation.  The guests will be Don Ecker, Research Director for UFO
>Magazine and a long-standing contributor of ParaNet, and Phil Klass, avionics
>editor (retired) for Aviation Weekly and Space Technology, and known among the
>UFO research community as an avid detractor of the ETH (Extra-Terrestrial
>Hypothesis).  Ecker will demonstrate that the phenomena has a basis in reality
>and that it has potential implications for possible non-prosaic explanations,
>whereas Klass will demonstrate a prosaic/earthly explanation for mysterious and
>seemingly inexplicable UFO incidents.

>The "square-off" will begin at 7:00 P.M., at the Denver North Holiday Inn
>Holidome at I-25 and 120th Avenue.  The title of the presentation is UFOs?
>Modern Myth, Manifest Technology, or ...?

>This will be an interesting exchange of ideas and information and is expected
>to attract skeptics, believers and the intellectually curious.  For ticket
>inforamtion, please contact MICAP at [phone].  Hotel accomodations are
>available at reasonable rates.

Klass will eat him alive.  From what I've heard from Ecker, there's no
way he can rebut Klass when he's really in fine form.  Mike, let us
know how it turns out.

--
Chris Rutkowski - [e-mail]
Royal Astronomical Society of Canada
University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!cunews!wcsjc
From: [e-mail] (John Coughlin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.stupidity,alt.exploding.kibo,alt.religion.kibology,alt.tasteless
Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again...
Message-ID: <wcsjc.702662852@cunews>
Date: 7 Apr 92 16:07:32 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <smedley.702576727@milton> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Administrator)
Organization: Carleton University
Lines: 75
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5216 alt.slack:2882 alt.stupidity:4505 alt.exploding.kibo:141 alt.religion.kibology:1507 alt.tasteless:9656

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:
>In article <smedley.702576727@milton> [e-mail] (William Warner) writes:
>>[e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:
>>
>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Roger Lee) writes:
>>>>In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:
>>>>
>>>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:
>>>>>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Matthew Fields) writes:
>>>>>>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Julian F Waldby) writes:
>>>>>>>>>In article <[e-mail]>
>>>>>>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
>>>>>>>>>> [e-mail] (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes:
>>>>>>>>>> >In article <[e-mail]>
>>>>>>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
>>>>>>>>>> >>[e-mail] (Kevin L. McBride) writes:
>>>>>>>>>> >>>[e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> In article <[e-mail]>
>>>>>>>>>[e-mail] (barry.o.olson) writes:
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >In article <[e-mail]>,
>>>>>>>>>[e-mail] (Russ Taylor) writes:
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James
>>>>>>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed]
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS.
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper.
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH.  I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT.
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*.
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents?  A thousand-degree flame on you!
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!)
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth?
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width.
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it?
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it.
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer.
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE?  PLEASE EXERCISE
>>>>>>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT.
>>>>>>>>>> >>>Okay.
>>>>>>>>>> >>    Come on guys, I think he means it.  Don't follow up to this.
>>>>>>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious.
>>>>>>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up.
>>>>>>>>>> >Or kill me.
>>>>>>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess.
>>>>>>>>>Shhhh!
>>>>>>>>>> >[e-mail]
>>>>>>>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming  305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139
>>>>>>>>>> >(  the  nonibo  -ibo  )  [phone] [home]  [phone] [office]
>>>>>>>>>>     No!  Don't follow up to this!  Whatever you do, _don't_ press
>>>>>>>>>> that "f" button!  It's a sin!  It's a sin!  This is against the gods
>>>>>>>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly!  See what you do!  You waste and
>>>>>>>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens!  Nay, until the
>>>>>>>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the
>>>>>>>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up!  My
>>>>>>>>>> _GOD_!  How can you even think it!  How can you dream it and still
>>>>>>>>>> remain sane?!?!?  How can it be?!?!?!?!  Gah!!!!
>>>>>>>>>> [e-mail]      | The meek shall inherit the earth,
>>>>>>>>>> [e-mail] |     and the wise keep moving on...
>>>>>>>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156     O    |-----------------------------------------
>>>>>>>>>>  Amherst, NY  14226      +    |Ask me about the Secret Society!  Shhhh!
>>>>>>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion?  I
>>>>>>>>>missed the earlier parts.
>>>>>>>There.  No more wasted "Bandwidth"
>>>>>>Huh?
>>>>>Duh!
>>>>NOT!
>>>Got.
>>Gott.
>cooler.
Whuzzat?
Path: ns-mx!uunet!math.fu-berlin.de!zrz.tu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!zelator!krypta!FB2-UUCP-Mail-Server
From: [e-mail] (Andre Eichner)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Berlin-Info: UFO meeting in Berlin
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 3 Apr 92 16:57:00 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Lines: 43

International UFO congress in Berlin (Germany)

KIK - communication in the universe, congress & exhibition 16.-20.4.92 in Berlin

A international UFO-congress take place at April 16.-20. in Berlin.

Speakers:

Virgil Armstrong,   USA,    Sponsor, as secret service officer he works
                            on the recovery of the first UFO, found 1948 in
                            the USA.
Fred Bell,          USA     Scientist, works with pyramid-energy and is
                            in contect with the aliens and makes music
Valerij Nagibin,    GUS     psychologist, medical doctor, UFO-research
                            scientist and para-psychologist.
Anthony Dodd,       UK      ex Sergeant of UK police.
                            employee of UFO-journal QUEST
                            investigate the crop circles in UK
Prof. J. J. Hurtak  USA     futurology, director of "future Science" institute
Dr. Edith Fiore     USA     psychologist, works with persons which was
                            captured through aliens.
Douglas Pue,        USA     Ex NASA-employee, is informed about contacts
                            between aliens and the US Gouvernment.
JULIE RAVEL         BRD     Channel und spiritual head of the Licht-Oase
                            Berlin, arranges newest information from the
                            "Ashtar Command".
MICKY REMANN,               New Age writer and expert for unusual
                            spirital occurrence.

and many more.

besides become a lot NewAge technical news in a exhibition/fair.

for more information and registration call

If you place a call, please inform about the source "FidoNet/ParaNet-Berlin"!

International cultural centre
"UFA-Fabrik Berlin" : [phone]
           Fax......: [phone]

---
 * Origin: FidoNet-Berlin, the magic node  (2:2403/10)
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!hp-cv!hp-pcd!hpcvaac!billn
From: [e-mail] (bill nelson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.pagan,alt.paranormal,talk.religion.newage
Subject: Re: New Age/Christian Survey -Help!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Apr 92 19:52:33 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Hewlett-Parkard Company, Corvallis, Oregon USA
Lines: 147
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5218 alt.pagan:14111 alt.paranormal:4759 talk.religion.newage:10009

[e-mail] (John M. Bozeman) writes:
: I am about to give a guest lecture to a sociology class at the
: University of Virginia.  The Topic:  "Christianity and the New Age
: Look at Each Other."  When Writing about such subjects, I like to
: talk to the people who actually practice the faith.  So I would
: like to ask anyone who would care to answer...
:
: 1.  What makes a person a Christian?

A professed belief that they are Christian by the individual should be
sufficient. They should not have to justify this to anyone else, nor
should anyone else be able to tell them that they are not Christian.

: 2.  What makes a person a follower of the New Age?

Once again, the belief by the person that they are New Age. In my experience,
many New Age people are Christians that would like a little personal mysticism
in their lives. They also seem to deny the dark or evil side of humanity - in
other words, they attempt to look at the world "through rose tinted glasses".

: 3.  What do you think of evangelical-fundamentalist-charismatic--
: pentecostal Christians?

Since I am not one of these, I do not hold any opinions which I wish to share.
In general, I disapprove of any dogmatic group, whether it is religious,
scientific or social.

: 4.  What do you think of mainline Protestant Christianity (i.e.,
: Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, etc.)

See #3.

: 5.  What do you think of Catholics?

See #3.

: 6.  What do you think of channeling?  meditation?  pyramids?  Tarot
: cards?  astrology?  crystals?  UFO's?

Channeling - probably self/delusion or fakery. I do not know, nor am I
really interested in finding out.

Meditation - a good tool for introspection. Prayer could be considered one
type of meditation. The technique is practiced by many groups of people,
many in a non-religious context. If it was not useful, it would not be so
common.

Pyramids - they are undoubtedly real. There are many people who have seen
them in Egypt and other countries. Some have even climbed them. Scientists
have studied and measured them.

Tarot cards and astrology - useful as a focus for making personal judgements
about another person - or to help focus on a situation which you feel you
need to examine. There is nothing inherently magical about either.

Crystals - some of them make pretty jewelry, others don't. Once again, they
could be used as a useful focus. Once again, there is nothing inherently
magical about them.

UFOs - who knows? That is why they are called UNIDENTIFIED flying objects.

: 7.  Who or what is God?  Who is/was Jesus?  Who or what is the Holy
: Spirit?  Do you think the literal Resurrection of Jesus literally
: took place?  What do you think is the meaning of the resurrection?

Who knows - does it really matter? I see the resurrection as yet another
version of the birth/death/rebirth cycle of mythology.

: 8.  Do you think Jesus will come again?  What do you think of the
: Bible?

No - I believe Jesus was a man. Possibly a very talented and powerful
person, but a man.

I see the Bible as a useful book of parable mixed with some history.
As with any book of mythology, the truth/fact becomes mixed with the
invention. This is not necessarily bad, nor is it necessarily good.

: 9.  Why do you consider yourself a follower of the New Age?  What
: do you think is (are) the central tenets of your beliefs?  How did
: you come to hold these beliefs?  Are you a member of any formal
: religious group(s)?  Which ones?

I doubt if you will find many New Age people here. I am not "New Age"
and would not attempt to speak for them.

My personal religious beliefs are none of your business. It is even
less your business of how I came to hold these beliefs. I am a member
of a number of religious groups/organizations - once again, which
ones are none of your business.

: 10. What is your age?  sex?  Occupation?  [Optional, for
: statistical use only:  are you single-married-divorced-widowed-
: living with someone-under a vow of celibacy?  hetero-homo-bisexual?
: What race do you describe yourself as?]

What does any of this have to do with religious belief?

As far as race - I describe myself as human. Should I describe myself
otherwise?

: 11. [More optional questions:  What happens to us when we die?

Who knows - I have not yet died. At least, I am not aware of having
done so.

: What makes an individual good or bad?  Do you think that there is

What the person does.

: an absolute standard of right and wrong?  What do you think are the

Absolutely not.

: central problems of American and World society?  How does your

Intolerance of the beliefs of others.

: faith address these problems, if at all?  Do you think that your

Many religions preach tolerance - few practice it. I practice rather
than preach.

: faith is the only way to salvation or self-fulfillment?  Is it the
: best way?

No, it is not the only way - it may not even be a way. However, it
is the most self-fulfilling I have found to date. As far as salvation,
it depends on what you mean by the term. You will have to define the
word for me.

I have no way of knowing if it is the best way to anything. That is
impossible for anyone to know. To attempt to force my beliefs on others
would be practicing this intolerance that I stated above was the greatest
problem facing humanity.

: Thank you for your time.  I may wish to quote from this material in
: class and/or (maybe) in a later scholarly work; quotation will be
: anonymous if requested.  As I mentioned above, sensitive material
: is for statistical use only.

If you are going to be doing a "scholarly work", then you had better
do a lot more research and learn the meaning of a few terms.

For example: Being "newage" is not the same as being "pagan".

Bill
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2
From: [e-mail] (barry.o.olson)
Newsgroups: alt.postmodern,alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.stupidity,alt.exploding.kibo
Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Apr 92 21:47:58 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: AT&T
Lines: 71
Xref: ns-mx alt.postmodern:2638 alt.alien.visitors:5219 alt.slack:2889 alt.stupidity:4517 alt.exploding.kibo:147

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Roger Lee) writes:
> In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:
>
> >In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
> >>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:
> >>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Matthew Fields) writes:
> >>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Julian F Waldby) writes:
> >>>>>In article <[e-mail]>
> >>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
> >>>>>> [e-mail] (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes:
> >>>>>> >In article <[e-mail]>
> >>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
> >>>>>> >>[e-mail] (Kevin L. McBride) writes:
> >>>>>> >>>[e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
> >>>>>> >>>> In article <[e-mail]>
> >>>>>[e-mail] (barry.o.olson) writes:
> >>>>>> >>>> >In article <[e-mail]>,
> >>>>>[e-mail] (Russ Taylor) writes:
> >>>>>> >>>> >> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James
> >>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes:
> >>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed]
> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS.
> >>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper.
> >>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH.  I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT.
> >>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*.
> >>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you
> >>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents?  A thousand-degree flame on you!
> >>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!)
> >>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth?
> >>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich
> >>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width.
> >>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it?
> >>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it
> >>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it.
> >>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor
> >>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor
> >>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer.
> >>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE?  PLEASE EXERCISE
> >>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT.
> >>>>>> >>>Okay.
> >>>>>> >>    Come on guys, I think he means it.  Don't follow up to this.
> >>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious.
> >>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up.
> >>>>>> >Or kill me.
> >>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess.
> >>>>>Shhhh!
> >>>>>> >[e-mail]
> >>>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming  305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139
> >>>>>> >(  the  nonibo  -ibo  )  [phone] [home]  [phone] [office]
> >>>>>>     No!  Don't follow up to this!  Whatever you do, _don't_ press
> >>>>>> that "f" button!  It's a sin!  It's a sin!  This is against the gods
> >>>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly!  See what you do!  You waste and
> >>>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens!  Nay, until the
> >>>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the
> >>>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up!  My
> >>>>>> _GOD_!  How can you even think it!  How can you dream it and still
> >>>>>> remain sane?!?!?  How can it be?!?!?!?!  Gah!!!!
> >>>>>> [e-mail]      | The meek shall inherit the earth,
> >>>>>> [e-mail] |     and the wise keep moving on...
> >>>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156     O    |-----------------------------------------
> >>>>>>  Amherst, NY  14226      +    |Ask me about the Secret Society!  Shhhh!
> >>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion?  I
> >>>>>missed the earlier parts.
> >>>There.  No more wasted "Bandwidth"
> >>Huh?
> >Duh!
> NOT!
Knot Groc
NOW STOP IT??!!**%%0-0
                     >
                    ~
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!pacbell.com!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2
From: [e-mail] (barry.o.olson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: More Packet messages (fwd)
Summary: somewhere over the rainbow...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Apr 92 22:05:52 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: AT&T
Lines: 12

> believe that somewhere out there someone is watching us - maybe listening to
> our radio transmissions - maybe receiving this very debate right now!  Yet
> another reason to compose packet messages well - aliens are watching! :-)
> That's my view - let's hear yours!

Although I believe there are strange phenomena happening out their
in the skies, I don't have any idea what that is.
But I wholeheartedly agree we are being observed, but by a lower
intelligence. These creatures are from our own time system, they are
called GA's. They used to be called G-Men. Government agents.

barry--
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!cbnewse!cbnewsd!press2
From: [e-mail] (barry.o.olson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: I2
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Apr 92 22:09:33 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: AT&T
Lines: 3

> >[eye]am an alien.
>     I am a UFO.
I am TuTu. You can call me Tu Too. Watch me dance.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!fnal.fnal.gov!raph
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: It seems kinda simple to me.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Apr 92 01:05:23 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (The Daily Lose)
Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Lab
Lines: 66

In article <[e-mail]>,
 [e-mail] writes:
> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
 (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) writes:
>> How about using a "control group" of people who claim _not_ to
>> have had an abduction experience or missing time episode?
>> Would they suddenly begin "remembering" such episodes when
>> placed under hypnosis?  A "false positive" result would certainly
>> cast aspersions on the value of hypnosis as a tool.
>
> This has been done, and the abduction theorists claimed that the newly
> remembered abductions proved that the problem was even more widespread
> than they had thought. The same thing happens with hypnotic regression
> to recall satanist abuse, and hypnotic regression to remember childhood
> sexual abuse, and so on. Hypnosis is a powerful tool to change what
> people think; abduction theorists, among others, seem to forget this.
>
> --
> whoah,
> +++++++++++++++++++++++23
> Loren Miller                  internet: [e-mail]


First off, I'm not a "UFO investigator," but I have come to know a number of
abductees rather well; and in our family we do have a psychoanalyst and a
degree or two in psychology.  What I have noticed from this thread is that one
element is omitted, which seems to be quite pivotal to the abduction
experience, and that is the traumatic shock, called PTSD in the psychiatrist's
DSM-III lingo.  You cannot find "control group" subjects normally running
around who are in a state of PTSD unless they have just been held hostage,
raped, or nearly been killed, or have been subjected to some other sort of
trauma.

Not all of the phenomena come out under hypnosis; in fact, from the people I
have talked with, only two of them resorted to hypnosis; and they had very
vivid experiences that they remembered (and related) *before* going to a
professional hypnotist to help understand what happened to them.

With a little imagination, I am sure that many people can concoct a scenario
where they are taken aboard a UFO, or attended a satanic ritual, or were a spy
for the USSR, etc.  What I believe *cannot* be concocted is the post-traumatic
stress syndrome, which can last for months, and has distinct and vivid
symptoms.

Had it been true (as I supposed before getting to know these abductees) that
all abductees probably said to themselves, "Gee, I saw a really strange light
through my bedroom window last night; maybe I was abducted by a UFO!  I'll get
hypnotized and find out!"  Well, if that would be the typical case, I would
agree that hypnosis and UFO abductions were only hokum.  I have found out that
that is not the case, to my great surprise.

Selecting test and control subjects without selecting for the trauma in the
one group is extremely poor protocol, and will probably leave you with an
"apples and oranges" useless comparison.

                                        Cordially, Jim Hawtree

*************************************************************************
Disclaimer:  Neither the senior physicists nor the janitor's union at Fermilab
knows  about nor cares about (let alone endorses) my opinions and statements
above.
*************************************************************************
"If anyone disagrees with anything I say, I am quite prepared not only to
retract it, but also to deny under oath that I ever said it."
                                -- Tom Lehrer
*************************************************************************
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!att!fang!tarpit!tous!bilver!jwt!anarchy
From: [e-mail] (Wayne Neverka)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.drugs,alt.paranormal,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: PROGRAMMING AND METAPROGRAMMING IN THE HUMAN BIOCOMPUTER
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Apr 92 05:21:02 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Waffle login)
Organization: The Matrix
Lines: 12
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5223 alt.drugs:24671 alt.paranormal:4763 sci.skeptic:22507

Also, for more info on Dr. Lilly, see this month's _High_Times_
interview...it's relatively short, but fascinating.

On the same topic, does anyone have a snail mail address for the Esalen
Institute in Big Sur?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wayne R. Neverka                                    [e-mail]

Just Say No To Bush -- Vote Libertarian in 1992
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: [e-mail] (Philip R. Forrest)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Color UFO-pics soon at UFO-FTP-site !
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Date: 8 Apr 92 02:38:24 GMT
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Stefan,

I read your posting dated 30 MAR 92 01:00:39 GMT

I have a couple of comments and a question.

My hometown is Mobile, AL - right next door to Pensacola.
(About 80 km) When these sightings were taking place, a friend
and I would drive over there on weekend nights and try to see whatever
it was that was causing all the fuss. As much as I wanted to see
something, I never did. I really find this UFO phenomenon very
fascinating, but I have never seen ANYTHING in the sky that was
out of the ordinary. I still have an open mind though.

I have not contacted Ed Walters (book Author). I do not know how to
get in touch with him. Does he have a known internet id ??

As far as the local news media goes, yes, they were all over the story.
All the TV stations had updates from time to time, and the papers had
a regular report weekly. I have talked to a lot of people in Pensacola
who swear they saw the 'crafts' (I used to deliver autoparts from Mobile
to Pensacola). The people I have talked to seem like ordinary people, I
don't think they were lying.

Pensacola's major network TV station (WEAR, Channel 3 (VHF)), broadcast
a half hour special on the video that was taken of the craft. I was rather
impressed by the quality of the tape. Have you seen it all ?
There is a portion on the tape in which one guy is videotaping another guy
taking a polaroid picture of the UFO - and the guy with the videocamera
continuously tapes the polaroid picture, and you can see the polaroid
picture develope - showing an image of the underside of the UFO.
I can't think of how someone could have faked that occurence.


- Phil Forrest
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From: [e-mail] (Gary Stollman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Pt 1/2: The Pleiadians: Awakening
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 8 Apr 92 03:40:45 GMT
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[e-mail] (Sasquatch) writes:

> How is it that you come to use our term for your section of the
> universe?i.e. the Pleiades.
>
>  * Origin: -=<*The Centre o' the Universe*>=- Glendale, CA - Earth
> (1:102/851.4)

*****
HEY!!  Don't bug them any!!  They are sentient beings ain't they??!!
They got a RIGHT to use any terminology they please!!!

       (holding ray guns on ya don't hurt either)

                Gary

 This is from
     [e-mail]
who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet
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From: [e-mail] (Gary Stollman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: INVASION!!!
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Gary Stollman                                    Copyright (C) 1991
446 Conradi St. Apt. A328                          Gary Stollman
Tallahassee, Fl. 32304




                   The Invasion of the Human Race

                                 by

                           Gary Stollman



     I never planned out my life to wind up on the set of KNBC in
Los Angeles LIVE, standing behind TV consumer advocate David
Horowitz holding a toy gun to his head, demanding that he read a
statement about how space aliens and the CIA had replaced my father
and family with clones.  I had only planned on becoming a computer
programmer and a good citizen.  At least that was before I
discovered I had somehow stumbled onto a vast plot to overthrow the
human race.  I realize the implications of what I am about to say
and how impossible it may be to believe, but the truth is that
unless something is done and quite soon, the human race as a
species will cease to exist!
     Naturally, I didn't get this idea overnight.  Actually it
took quite a few years for me to realize exactly what was going on.
By that time, I had been through so much brutal assault on my
senses, I didn't quite know what to make of it all.  However, as it
gradually became all too obvious, I became terrified, and vowed
that I would take some action to try to halt or at least impede the
apparent problem.  The end result of this was my jumping onto the
set at the NBC studio in LA, in a last-ditch hope of scaring them
so bad they would go back to wherever they came from.  I think I
should preview you from the beginning, when I first discovered that
something was rotten in Dixie.
     In the summer of 1981, I was in my new home, Tallahassee,
Florida, preparing to enter Tallahassee Community College (TCC) in
the fall to finish up my long-put-off AA degree.  I was sitting in
my apartment awaiting a shipment of belongings from my parents in
California.  Suddenly, the phone rang.  My mom was on the phone,
and she asked me whether I had received the packages.  I told her
they had not been delivered yet.  She said she would check up on
it, and the phone line abruptly went dead.  I was concerned because
I had sensed real fear in her voice about the shipment not
arriving.  I was certain something was up, but I couldn't put my
finger on it.  I didn't quite know what to make of it at the time.
     That was the start of a series of bizarre events which seemed
like something from the Twilight Zone.  It would last for 6 long
years, up until the day I sat in the studio at NBC in LA with the
toy gun in my jacket pocket, waiting for my chance to leap onto the
set to hopefully put a stop to what had become a living nightmare.
However, I have learned recently that my efforts at bringing my
experiences to the public attention did not stop them, although it
may have slowed them down just a little.
     During the summer that followed, I continued to receive calls
of a strange nature from many people, including my parents.  I knew
something was REALLY wrong when my dad called me up one night, and
began asking me questions about some hotel we had all supposedly
stayed at with "huge" marble staircases.  Since none of us had ever
been at such a place, I didn't know what the HELL he was talking
about!  When he realized that I was totally confused and worried,
he acted like because I didn't "remember", he was going to be shot
or something to that effect!
     Calls like that continued for weeks, including some really
wierd ones from the operator, where she repeatedly questioned me
about people whom I did not even know.  The nature of the calls
convinced me that my phone was tapped, and being monitored by the
phone company or "someone!"
     When September rolled came, I went to TCC to register for
classes.  The day I walked in, almost ALL of the kids had dropped
the classes they had signed up for the day before.  A lady
counselor (who was to play a part in my later demise) told me that
it had NEVER happened before and never would again!  She tried to
assure me that it was all just a simple clerical error, but I
thought at the time there was more to it than just that.  I signed
up for 5 classes, enough to complete my degree.  I sure had an
"open" list to pick from!
     After a week or so of classes, I realized that something was
terribly wrong.  Some of the kids in my classes were acting real
funny, and I do mean ACTING!  It was as if they were playing parts
out of a movie, the way they were carrying on during class.
Something just wasn't right.  It seemed like they had been assigned
various "roles", and their actions in the class made me believe
that they had been put there for some specific purpose.
     I came to the gradual conclusion that some of the kids in my
classes were either with the CIA or the FBI, what with the type of
stuff they were doing and saying.  And it seemed like they were
there for the express purpose of keeping and eye on ME.  I know
that sounds paranoid, but it was the only assumption I could
ascertain at the time, with the things that were going on.
Gradually, those thoughts began to affect my class work to
the point where I was having a hard time studying, and my grades
began to slip in some of my classes.  Fortunately, because of my
strong will, I was able to keep my attention focused on getting
done, and wound up passing all of my classes except one.  However,
the process by which I got through those classes was a pretty
roundabout one, as it involved the first of my many unwilling
hospitalizations for treatment of my supposed paranoid delusions.
     In order to be allowed to finish school, I was forced into
signing myself into a small local mental hospital for treatment by
the counselor who I had met while signing up for classes.  When I
discovered that that hospital was just a front for the CIA from the
events which took place after I had signed in, I tried to sign
myself out, but instead of being released, I wound up being sent to
the main mental hospital here in town by the doctor in charge.  I
had friends with some authority who really cared about me, and
after a few days and a visit from the public defender, I was
discharged.  But the fire of anger from that first wrongful
admission to a mental hospital still burns within me.
     After I finished school, I went to my grandparents in West
Palm Beach for Christmas vacation.  There were some strange things
going on down there as well, but I didn't make anything out of it.
I then went up to Atlanta for New Years.  When I got back, my mom
called me at my apartment.  But it was not my REAL mom!  I couldn't
explain it, but I knew instinctively that it wasn't my real mom's
voice on the phone.  The tonal qualities were different.  When I
told her I had been to Atlanta, she practically exploded at me.
She told me that I was confused and she was coming to see me.  She
hung up, and the next day, she arrived at my apartment.
     From the moment I laid eyes on her, I knew that it was NOT my
real mother.  Her voice was different, her manners were different,
and she didn't know what my mom knows about me.  I know, cause I
checked her out on little details about my past life.  I didn't
know what was going on, but I was mad and I was scared.
After determining for certain that this was a clone of my
real mom, I threw her out of my apartment.  That night, the police
came by, and tried to get me to open the door so they could grab me
and take me back over to the little mental hospital.  But I was
smart back then, and wouldn't take the chain off the door.  So they
left.  After they were gone, I decided I had had enough, and so I
got in my car and took off into the night, terrified.
     I got on the interstate and started driving.  I figured since
my "fake" mom didn't like the idea of my going to Atlanta, that it
would be safe up there.  So I drove back up to Atlanta, and wound
up getting trapped in the city overnight in a blinding snowstorm.
I tried going to the FBI office there for help, but only got the
runaround, although they DID act like it was very important
information I had about one particular person the operator kept
asking me about all the time over the summer.
     I wound up spending the night at one of the local college's
student centers.  I called my dad from there, and he knew where I
was calling from without my telling him, so I figured somebody was
able to trace the call pretty good.  I also knew, from what he told
me, that he was being held against his will somewhere.  He told me
to go back to Tallahassee and go into the hospital, or he wouldn't
send me any money to get back there, as I had zoomed away without
enough cash to get back.  I knew I would need the cash, so I just
said I would.  I hadn't planned on going back there no matter what,
but I didn't know exactly where I would head to yet.  So I lied and
said I would go pick up the cash if he would send it by Western
Union.  He agreed to this, and wished me good luck.
     What took place after that would make a good story in itself!
Suffice it to say that I picked up the money okay at the Western
Union office, but then I wandered around in the city, with some
VERY interesting results.  When I got back to the student center,
it was real late, and I laid down on a couch like the other people
trapped there for the night, and went to sleep.
     When I awoke the next morning, the snow had cleared enough
for me to leave.  I decided that there was just too much nonsense
going on for me to return to Tallahassee, and so I just continued
driving north on I-75, planning to head towards Washington, D.C.
On the way there, the snow was still coming down on a long
section of freeway, and I slid out of control and slammed my car
into the retaining wall.  There was some damage to my car, but I
was able to continue.  Fortunately, I have a lot of experience
driving in rain, and I was able to control the swerve so the damage
was not too bad.
     I pulled off the road near Cinncinati, Ohio to get a bite to
eat.  I made an illegal U-turn near the restaurant, and a cop
pulled me over.  He let me go with a warning though, and I went to
have some dinner and coffee.  Although I had been driving all day
and most of the night, I was still in pretty good shape.
     When I finished eating, I decided to ask for an escort to
Washington, as I was afraid because of stuff happening around me
while I was driving, of someone trying to kill me on the road
before I got there.  I know it was a stupid idea, but I went ahead
and called the Highway Patrol for an escort, telling them I some
sort of a spy, and I had vital information needed to save the
country from an enemy missle attack.  Eventually, they sent a
highway patrol car and a regular police car to the restaurant.
The highway patrolmen were considerate as to my situation,
but the regular police acted like I was some kind of criminal for
reasons I couldn't understand.  When they checked my car, they
asked me about the damage, but I wouldn't say what had happened,
and so they took me into protective custody.
     They took me to the police station, and then something
happened that made me wonder just how far the situation with alien
clones had gone.  The police called my father and told me that he
was flying in to pick me up, but then some very wierd stuff took
place, and instead they took me over to Cinncinati General Hospital
for supposed evaluation.
     The next day, I was transferred over to a nearby mental
hospital, and placed in a locked ward for the next 4 weeks.  The
people there acted extremely bizarre, and the whole thing was a
total sham.  But I was trapped, and I spent a month in misery
walking the halls, biding my time for the day I would be released.
During the time I was there, I was so distraut by what was
going on in the place, I called the FBI office in Cinncinati and
told them that the hospital was a sham.  They asked to speak to one
of the people there, and I put the social worker on the phone, who
gave a false name to the FBI agent.  After that, I didn't screw
around with them, but swore an oath that someday I would expose
their fraudulant hospital to the world.
     At the end of the month, my REAL dad flew in to drive with me
back to Tallahassee.  I knew it was my real dad, and I also knew
that he was pretending to his best to give the impression that
nothing was wrong.  I had the impression that he was being watched
somehow every minute we were together, although I didn't know
exactly how at the time.  I just played along with it all, as I
wanted OUT of that nuthouse.  So we started driving back to
Tallahassee that day.
     When we got back to Tallahassee, I began to understand just
how serious my dad's situation really was.  He was not acting
"normal" at all, for him.  When he covered up the story I had told
to the police with feigned tears, I knew something was terribly
wrong.  I can tell when someone is faking anything, and I KNOW my
own father, so I was able to discern that he was only "pretending"
to cry.  Then I realized that he was pretending because someone was
somehow WATCHING him at the time!  My dad was trying to fool THEM!
I didn't know what to make of that at the time, but I swore I would
someday find out what was going on.
     My dad found me a different apartment, one closer to FSU,
where I live to this day as it is the best apartment complex in
town.  He had wanted to stick me in a halfway house, which is what
I had promised him I would do in order to get out of the hospital,
but I wouldn't go for it.  So we moved all my stuff from my
previous apartment, and the next day I took him to the airport to
fly back to LA.  I was mad as hell at whatever was going on, and so
I treated him pretty poorly as he left.  When he once again feigned
crying, I knew it was to protect himself from whatever, and so I
didn't say anything.  He got on the plane and headed back.
     The next few weeks were hard on me, because I didn't have any
classes to attend, and so felt lonely.  I did have the FSU Plato
system to learn from, but it just wasn't enough support, and
gradually I began to slip backwards again.  It ended up that I went
driving off into the night in terror for a second time, this time
from things that were going on around me in the town itself.  I got
on I-10 and started heading back to LA, in the hope that being
around my family would pull me out of the fear and loneliness.
     I wound up losing my car in a crowded airport parking lot at
the Houston Intercontinental Airport.  I was in such a poor state
of mind, that I believed that a computer fault I had come across on
the government computer system I had spent many years on was
somehow responsible for a sneak missle attact on the United States.
It was at this point in time that I came across the fact that
people were being replaced.  How this was proved to me is shown
later in the book.  Suffice it to say that I wound up being
incarcerated against my will in another mental hospital for a
month, only this time they FORGED my NAME on the admission form to
do it!
     At the end of the month, my dad flew in again, but this time
he flew me back to LA with him.  My mom got me a shrink in West Los
Angeles, and I started taking injections of an anti-psychotic drug
called Prolixin.  I spent a happy, though angry, spring with my
parents, and even went with them on a trip to Hawaii for a week.  I
had NO thoughts that these were not my real parents at the time,
and I eventually put off the events with my mom in Tallahassee as
misguided assumptions, although in the back of my mind there
remained the fact that I am not ususally wrong when I think
something funny is going on.
     As the summer came around back then in 1982, I said goodbye
to my real parents and drove back to Tallahassee to return to
school at FSU.  My mind was at peace, because my parents WERE my
real parents back then, and I was pretty confident that nothing
would change that fact.  I did not know how much more WRONG I could
have been!
     The next two semesters at FSU went well, and I did good in my
classes.  However, as the summer appoached, my mind began to slip
back to the events that had unraveled the year before.  I found
myself becoming more and more angry at myself for not having taken
steps to file charges against the hospital in Houston that had
forged my name, and I still didn't know what had really been going
on at that hospital when I discovered that people were somehow
being systematically replaced.  Around August, I wound up getting
throw into the local mental hospital again.
     This time around, I had proof positive that something VERY
wrong was going on here in town.  The stuff that was going on in
the hospital was insane.  It had no logical explanation, except to
confirm my suspicions from the year before.  I was physically
abused this time, and had to placate my captors immensely in order
to be released.  This time though, being released was like merely
being turned loose into the world of the unknown outside in the
town.  I didn't have my parents or my family to fall back on, and
in fact, I felt that both my parents were being held prisoners in
some CIA base somewhere.
     Although getting back to classes in September helped some, I
still felt like a stranger in a strange land.  The teachers I had
were acting funny, and wierd things were going on all the time in
class.  As the weeks progressed, I found that I could not
concentrate on my classwork very well, and gradually I had a
complete breakdown.  The end result of this was my running out of
gas on the freeway, and getting smashed from behind by a pickup
truck.
     When I woke up from being knocked unconcious, I was in the
hospital, and my mom was standing there at the foot of my bed.  I
had been damaged pretty bad, and it was a miracle that I had lived.
I lost a piece of my nose, and my face had been smashed pretty
badly, but fortunately I had a real good plastic surgeon.  Then my
mom (not sure to this day if it was my REAL mom or not at the time)
did something that convinced me that the aliens wanted me on a
platter.  From that moment on, I have been VERY careful as to what
I say or do, or even think!
     After I got out of the regular hospital, I had problems
dealing with reality even on the simplest of levels.  So I wound up
being thrown back into the mental hospital again, this time by my
mom.  This time in there, I discovered that people were indeed
reading my mind directly as I had suspected.  I also learned for
the first time that God himself or his angels were trying to help
me in my plight.  I know that sounds even more incedible than
aliens invading us, but my conclusions were drawn from logical sets
of events.
     I was flown back to LA again for a third time, only this time
I knew that BOTH my parents had been switched.  I spent a fearsome
time, but I had planned ahead and drawn enough money out of the
bank before I left, so I could go back whenever I desired.  Most of
the time there was spent thinking I was on another planet, due to
the kinds of things that were happening around me.  I realize now
that most of it was imaginary, but there are parts that were as
real and unexplainable as can be.  After only a few weeks, I drove
back to Tallahassee without a word to my "parents."
Despite the fact that I felt very much alone, I put myself
back in school, and tried to finish up the classes I had to drop
because of the accident.  I did all right for a few months, but
then things began to happen in my classes again at FSU.  I tried to
ignore them like previously, but this time I had nobody supportive
to fall back on.  Slowly I began to break down again from the
stress, and wound up getting throw back again into the mental
hospital around the middle of December.  This time I decided to go
back to LA, and so they released me on my own recognizance in order
to fly back there.
     My FAKE father met me at the airport, and this time I knew I
was going to be framed up bad.  My REAL mom and my FAKE mom were
being interchanged continuously throughout the time I was there,
which consisted mainly of my being forced into signing myself into
two more mental hospitals for the duration of my stay.  I was
released from the second one and flown back to Florida one day too
late to register for classes for the spring semester of 1984.  I
COULD have late-registered, but at the time, I wasn't quite sure of
which DIMENSION I was residing in!  So I got back into Plato, and
learned all the computer languages I could from that.
     I enrolled in Lively Vo-Tech that summer, and took up
Electronics Technology.  I really enjoyed it, having fallen in love
with electronics some time back, and having learned most of it
already on my own, I breezed through the courses.  This was where I
met my electronics teacher, who confirmed that the United States
government did indeed have little alien bodies on ice at Hangar 18,
now known as the Environmental Control Building.  He also told me
about the other strange things that the Air Force had in that
building, and that it was the most highly guarded building in the
world.  Unfortunately, he too was replaced sometime after I had
told him my story and he told me he was going to try to help me.
After that, I thought twice about telling other people about my
problems.
     Things went smoothly for me through the fall.  I enjoyed my
class at Lively and was doing quite well in it.  Then, around the
first of the year, something happened that disturbed my brief
period of stability.  I got into a conversation with a girl on
Plato, which has inter-terminal communications capability, who told
me that seven of HER friends had been replaced!  I was shocked and
terrified.  I had thought that only those people in direct contact
with me were being affected, but it turned out that complete
strangers were being replaced as well.  I was determined to put a
stop to it.
     I got in touch with Dr. Allen J. Hynek, the leading authority
on UFOs at the time.  He told me to keep a low profile, and NOT to
go public with the information until I could build up a dialog of
communication with him.  I started to sit down at my computer and
write him about the things I was experiencing, but stopped after
the first paragraph.  How could I put into writing the unbelievable
events that had taken place over the past FIVE YEARS!?  I was at a
loss, and determined that I would go see him in person at his
headquarters in Chicago while on a trip to see my sister in Kansas.
     I drove to Kansas that summer, only to discover that my
younger sister and my brother-in-law had been replaced as well.  I
was dismayed, and left there in a complete state of despair, and
headed for Chicago, praying that Dr. Hynek could help me.  But when
I got to his office, I discovered that he was gone on a vacation
and his partner, too, had been replaced.  I was wrought with horror
and anger, at what had transpired on the trip, and how worthless it
had been.  I made a vow to myself, that if ever circumstances lent
themselves to give me a chance to expose the goings-on to the
world, that I would take it!
     After I got back from the trip, I threw myself back into
schoolwork to try to forget what had happened.  I did all right for
the fall semester, but then around Christmas vacation I began to
feel depressed again.  And AGAIN my "mom" flew down and threw me
into the hospital!  This time I learned that God was trying to help
me personally, and that there were a lot of other "beings" trying
to save us also.  I was so confused by all this that I almost
couldn't function on a rational level anymore.  After two weeks in
the hospital here, I was flown back to LA again.
     This time, they weren't taking any chances, and drove me
right from the airport to UCLA Medical Center, and threw me into
the psychiatric ward.  Some interesting things occured there, but
basically, it was a turnilng point for me in the sense that I began
to fight back.  I filed a writ of Habeus Corpus after two weeks,
and went to court and got the judge to release me.  From that
moment on, I knew I could defeat their plans.  They didn't know
anything about law, and that was in my favor.
     I spent a couple of months with my REAL mom and FAKE dad over
the spring.  My REAL dad was locked up in the alien prison camp, so
I didn't have much to do with the fake one.  My real dad had shown
up for just a few minutes at my court appearance, but then he was
whisked out shortly before the judge released me, and replaced by
his clone.  I assumed by this that they were afraid only IN the
courtroom.  I swore to myself that I would get my fake dad into a
courtroom, only this time over a REAL case.  I didn't know how
truthful it would turn out to be.
     I went to a computer class at Santa Monica College during
this time period, and I planned out my revenge.  I knew that my
fake dad was doing a live show on KNBC as the Friendly Pharmacist,
and I knew that he had access to the studios.  I didn't plan yet to
enter the studios with a toy gun, but I was determined to use that
access to my advantage.  I merely went to school and bided my time.
     When the summer of 1986 rolled around, I had completed my
class, and drove back to Tallahassee.  I had it in my mind to take
some action before the next summer.  I had no idea yet what it
would be, but I was keeping all my options open.  I knew I had to
find out more information about the situations that had taken place
at all the mental hospitals, so I went about getting ahold of my
records.  I was unable to obtain them all, because they broke the
law and refused to give some of them to me, but using subterfuge, I
did obtain a good percent of them.  I rented a safe deposit box, to
protect them from anyone's eyes but mine, in case what I was
planning failed and my apartment was closed out again.  When I was
getting all my records, I realized that I had to get back inside
one of the hospitals to see if there was still nonsense going on,
and to have a backup plan ready in case I wound up there if my
plans went awry.  I picked UCLA, which was convenient, seeing as I
could ask to go there if something went wrong.  So, in January of
1987, I drove back to LA and checked into the hospital, for the
first time of my own choosing!
     I spent about three weeks in UCLA, observing what was going
on with great intent.  I determined that I could handle a couple of
weeks in there, if the plans I were making backfired.  I noted
everything that went on, and kept a mental log of all the staffing
assignments.  I "interviewed" the patients that were there, so as
to see how much of a problem I would have if I returned under less
desirable circumstances.  When I left, I was satisfied that there
was nothing anyone could do to stop me.
     I took up another computer class at Santa Monica College
while waiting for my chance to strike.  I was going out with a
sweet girl from New Jersey, when Joan McCaughey stumbled into my
life.  I met her at the beach one day, and we became very close
friends.  It turned out that she had a problem with fake parents
herself, although not of the cloned variety.  It also turned out
that she had had intimate contact with UFOs in her past, and I
spent a couple of weeks with her, trying to track down the mystery
of her family.  It turned out they owned half of LA county.
     It was at this time, around June of 1987, that I bought the
toy gun.  I kept it under the passenger seat in my car, waiting for
the chance I would get to use it.  I was keeping close track of my
fake dad's schedule at the studio, and was going to go in with him
and hold the gun on him, and force HIM to read the statement over
the air, when everything fell apart.  He lost his job there, and I
didn't know exactly what I was going to do.  So I decided to take
Joan back to Florida with me, and make my play from there, leaving
my fake dad to think that I was out of the way.
     Joan and I spent an enjoyable "vacation" in Florida.  We went
all over the state and had a great time doing it.  It was all part
of my plan to make my fake dad forget all about me.  I didn't know
what he had told the people at KNBC about me, and it turned out
that I had made the right decisions.  I believe now that had I
walked in with him, I never would have gotten "on the air", so to
speak.
     After we got done traveling around, I started planning for
the trip back to LA.  It turned out that I took out just enough
money from the bank to get there with about a gallon of gas to
spare.  My mom called us in Tallahassee, and Joan accidently told
her we were coming back.  She couldn't understand WHY I was coming
back, and she was understandably worried.  I just let Joan talk to
her, as she wouldn't be able to interpret MY hostilities through
Joan.
     The trip back was like a non-stop adventure.  Although we
stopped at Carlsbad Caverns in New Mexico for some sightseeing, the
majority of the trip consisted of my driving at top speed toward an
uncertain future.  I knew I could get into the studios, but what
then?  Would I be shot dead by the police, and would my message go
out LIVE so nobody could edit it?  I did not know the answers to
those questions as we drove on through the night.
     When we got to LA, I dropped Joan off, then went over to my
parents apartment.  My fake dad answered the door, and he was
pissed!  Why had I come back, he wanted to know.  I wouldn't say.
I just took my suitcases into the spare bedroom, and went to bed.
I could hear him arguing with my REAL mom outside for a good while.
It turned out that my fake dad wasn't going to let me stay there
past one night, so the next day I took the spare mattress over to
Joans apartment and stayed the rest of the time there.
     The next two weeks were spent planning out exactly how I
would compromise the studio.  I made contact with the TV newswoman
who would get me onto the set.  I made sure I did this from a pay
phone, as I knew my parents' phones were all completely tapped.  I
started writing up what I would hand the person on the air to read,
although I didn't get to finishing it until one hour before I was
to be at the studio because of procrastination.  That has always
been one of my shortcomings.
     The day before I was to enter the studio, I tried the toy gun
out on a friend of mine to see if it would get the desired results.
The test was a complete success, as my friend was scared to death
at first sight of the gun.  I had the stuff ready, and I was in a
good frame of mind to go ahead and do it.  At 3:30 pm on Wednesday,
August 19, 1987 I entered the studio.  In a little over one hour
later, it was all over.  I had MADE the national news.  I had spent
my wad, and I bear the results of that deed to this day.
     In the four years since that event, I have kept a silent
vigil.  I have endured many sorrows, and been chastised for my
doings by many around me.  But I still keep my head high, and think
of what plight this world would be in now had I NOT done what I did
that day.  It rocked the world, but MORE importantly, it rocked the
aliens and their plan for global domination!
     I have lived a lonely life since that day.  But I have great
hope for the future now.  If you want to learn more about this, and
the complete story of how all this has taken place, and how YOU can
help in the fight to save our planet from these monsters who have
us outgunned, read on.  Read on, FELLOW HUMAN!



 This is from
     [e-mail]
who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet
Path: ns-mx!uunet!math.fu-berlin.de!zrz.tu-berlin.de!harti
From: [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.binaries.pictures.misc,sci.space
Subject: UFO-GIF-pics, how to get them !
Summary: ufo
Keywords: ufo
Message-ID: <harti.702757660@tubue>
Date: 8 Apr 92 18:27:40 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (News  Manager)
Organization: ZRZ/TU-Berlin
Lines: 33
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5227 alt.binaries.pictures.misc:4581 sci.space:28874
Nntp-Posting-Host: mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de


Hi,
as there are now some scanned UFO-sighting-GIF-pictures available at the
UFO-ftp-site at phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17), there are still many people
out there, who don't know how to access them.

Here is how to log onto phoenix and grab the pics:

ftp 130.231.240.17
anonymous
ftp
cd pub/ufo_and_space_pics
ls -l
prompt
binary
mget *.gif
quit

This is the sequence You have to type to get the UFO-GIF-pics from phoenix.

The ed*.gif -pics are from the book: UFOs, es gibt sie
from Ed Walters (German Edition, ISBN:3-426-26463-3)  (UFOs, they are here).

These are the currently best available UFO-pics from a real sighting in color.
The sighting took place in 1987 and 1989 in Pensacola,Florida in the Gulf Breeze
region (USA) and it is really worth reading the book !

alien.gif and ufohouse.gif are from the Maria Popovich book: UFO-Glasnost
It is also a good book to read.

Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for
Decentral Energy Research
email to: [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!uwm.edu!linac!tellab5!jcj
From: [e-mail] (jcj)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Apr 92 13:57:19 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News)
Organization: Wazmodyne Industries
Lines: 15
Nntp-Posting-Host: sungb

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (barry.o.olson) writes:
>We are all pulling for ya buddy! keep up the good work, and
>don't let the aliens steal your sanity.
>I still watch CNN, but haven't seen anything weird or unusual
>except they keep featuring Bill Clinton. Keep us posted!

The Lynn Russell clone has been neutralized!  Check out the *real*
Lynn's haircolor now.

Oh yeah!  Check this out!  I bought some dogfood and a bottle of seltzer
at the grocery store and the total (with tax) was... $11.11 !?!??!!!!
--
              Alpha Boombah
    Holder of the '86 Honda key, drinker of Beer, Anti-bandwidth
            waster of the Loons
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!uw-beaver!pullen
From: [e-mail] (Walter D. Pullen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: What do the _Greys_ *REALLY* want from us?
Summary: Co-creation for the mutual benefit of both of us in a new society.
Keywords: Greys
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Apr 92 03:34:58 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Washington Computer Science
Lines: 449


Of all the extraterrestrial civilizations visiting the Earth at this
time, two races stand out in the UFO literature and in the net
discussions: The "Greys" and the Pleiadians. This is because they are
the two races presently interacting the most with humankind. The
Pleiadians and most of the other civilizations are non-interfering,
simply observing or else are trying to deliver the message of Spirit
to Earth. The Greys, however, are known to be basically the only race
actively "interfering" and affecting the lives of people on Earth.
Based on some of the things they are doing, some consider them to be
an evil race with malicious schemes and intentions.

I said it before in a previous article (containing an excerpt written
by Earlyne Chaney of the Metaphysical School of Astara) and I repeat
it again: The Greys are NOT are here to harm us in any way whatsoever,
and are here to help us as friends in our planetary growth taking
place during these powerful times in Earth's evolution. However, in
this article I would like to go into a little more detail into what
the Greys *are* here for, and address various other things concerning
them.

A wide variety of sources say various things about the Greys: For
example, they are behind almost all of the "abductions" taking place,
during which they seemingly kidnap people against their will, make
implants, and perform various examinations, including sexual ones. The
cattle "mutilations" are attributed to them as well, along with secret
meetings between them and the U.S. government. A look at these
allegations can easily make one think a huge conspiracy is in the
works. In fact, most of the things attributed to them are true,
although it still doesn't change the fact that they are here to help,
for reasons that will be explained.

The Greys are here for basically one purpose: To create a new race of
beings. Entities of this race are known as Hybrids because they are a
cross between the Greys and Earth humans. The reason why these Hybrids
are being made is twofold: To save their species and to help ours. In
order to explain how the Hybrids will save us both, and explain the
rationale behind their actions, a general description of the Greys and
their features should be made:

These extraterrestrials are called the Greys because of how they look.
A typical Grey alien is about 3-4' tall, has whiteish-grey skin and no
hair, a large head with small facial features, and large black lidless
eyes. They come from a place known as Zeta Reticulum, and are part of
a larger Confederation of Planets known as the "Network". They are
actually quite small and frail, although can can move swiftly, in
motions that would appear to us jerky. Just as there are different
races of humans on Earth, so are there a few different types of Greys:
For instance some have more brownish skin or other varying features,
and not all reside in that particular solar system. Although the Greys
have only been actively doing abductions and other work for the past
few decades (similar to the over 100 other races that have taken up
observation since 1945) they have actually been in contact with Earth
for the last several centuries, their influence going back almost as
long as that of the Pleiadians.

Actually the term "Grey" (I like to call the Grey aliens "Greyliens"
for short.) for this race of extraterrestrials is appropriate for
another reason: their disposition. The Greys have a "hive" mentality,
and are completely devoted to the needs of their collective race. They
work together extremely well, and have little sense of ego or personal
individuality. They are basically all the same, and to us would seem
dreary and boring. (I have a couple of examples of channeled messages
from the Reticulum itself, that I might post if there's interest;
although very interesting material on the abductions from *their*
point of view, is always written in a dry and unflowing manner.) There
are virtually no disagreements among them of any kind, since they all
serve the collective needs. The Greys are hence very unemotional, and
behave much like Spock or Data would on Star Trek. (Ever see a Grey
smile? I haven't, and I think they should more often. :)

Some might think that the Greys are a reptilian race, but this isn't
true. Rather they are in insect-like race. Some say the Greys look a
lot like giant insects, and I believe that is perhaps part of their
history - a highly evolved insect race. This accounts not only for
jerky movements, but their unemotional and hard working collective
mentality. The contents of my earlier post said they are like
humanized robots which are working for a few magnificent Angelic
beings. These master aliens could in our insect analogy play the role
of the "queens". An interesting piece of trivia is that, according to
one source, the influence of the Greys in our society has been
expressed through the introduction of Rap music, and although I can't
verify anything, this music would probably fit them well.

The collective consciousness of the Greys has many good assets, such
as high productivity, psychic connection, and one-pointedness of
thought. There is always concern for the future and the environment,
and there are rarely any conflicts because they all work for the
group. Negatively, they can be seen as detached "sheep" that allow
themselves to be dominated by the group. Our individuality also has
many good assets, such as accelerated soul growth, here and now
aliveness, and a uniqueness that makes each person special.
Negatively, we are seen as overemotional, moody people who care only
for today and only do what enhances our sense of ego self.

It is interesting to compare ourselves to the Greys - we are very
different from each other. We humans are individualistic, while they
are collective. We are emotional, while they are detached. What it
comes down to is that the Greys and the Humans, are basically exact
opposites of each other. To put it simply, together we form a duality.
We represent the individual, and they represent the society. Our
emphasis has been on valuing personal growth, while theirs has been on
unified growth. And this duality is the ultimate causal reason which
brings the Greys and us into interaction with each other. Like
attracts like, but opposites attract too, since in truth, polarized
opposites are one.

(For the astrologically inclined, the archetype for the Greys is
Capricorn, ruled by Saturn, the unemotional, contractive zodiac sign
of discipline and work, yielding productive results. For contrast, the
sign best describing the Pleiadians is expansive, enthusiastic
Sagittarius, ruled by Jupiter, dealing with travel, education, and
lofty philosophical thought. The archetype for we of Earth is erratic,
unpredictable Aquarius, ruled by Uranus, of individual thought and new
ideas. And, not to get off the subject, but, for some of the other
more prominent extraterrestrial races: The beings from Sirius rule
watery, spiritual, dreamy Pisces; those from Arcturus rule loving and
caring Cancer; the Orions rule fiery, intense Scorpio; the DAL
Universe entities rule pure, analytical, service oriented Virgo; the
Lyrians rule self-expressive Leo; any of the forceful energy from the
Andromeda galaxy is well expressed in Aries; and finally the
Essassanis (described later) rule peaceful, friendly, blanced Libra.)

The Greys are a dying race. This is because their collectiveness is to
such a degree that they have stifled individual life, and hence the
"cells" that make up the Reticulum are dying. We of Earth (at least in
the forties) were also a dying race headed toward self-destruction:
Greed, egotism, selfishness of all kinds, combined with more and
deadlier weapons without respect for others or our planet. We both
were headed toward our extinction, and there was only one thing that
could save us both: each other! This is the reason behind the creation
of the Hybrid race - to create a race of beings with the best of both
worlds: individual power and uniqueness combined with a strong
inclination to work together harmoniously.

In order to create the Hybrid bodies, we need to mix the DNA of Humans
and Greys. The main thing done by the Greys in the abduction of people
is the sampling of sperm which is then united with the egg of a female
alien, or else the sampling of a human egg which is united with alien
sperm. Recently, there has been direct alien/human mating aboard their
craft. In "Communion", I heard sometimes a human female is impregnated
with alien sperm, and the fetus is then "stolen" out of the uterus in
a later abduction. This is why so many of the extraterrestrial
examinations are of a sexual nature, and similar precise scars made
during them. Of course, this process has lots of complexity, and the
Greys have to be attuned to the growth of the abductees and many other
things, since they can't just fly in and beam someone up off the
street. This can explain the purpose of the implants as well as
contacts throughout life all the way back to childhood. (It also
explains the rationale of a case posted to the net earlier, i.e. why
an alien was annoyed when it realized an abductee had had a vasectomy
earlier.)

The Greys are behind the so-called cattle mutilations. This is because
human and Grey DNA aren't the only things going into the Hybrids, a
few other creatures, including our Earth cattle, have been used. If
one were to examine such a "mutilation", they would probably find them
to be done in a formal manner with precise cuts like the abductions.
As for why the cattle are killed and left lying there, several
possibilities come to mind: First, the Greys are so detached and down
to business that they would be wholly devoted to their task at hand,
and cleaning up is therefore "irrelevant" to the mission. Precise cuts
and hard to duplicate biological modifications can be done to promote
speculation among us as to the aliens' presense, (like the crop
circles). Finally, some of the Earth Change literature says cattle are
one of the species that have been asked to be "taken off the Earth"
before the Equinox, so constructively using the cattle for a good
purpose does no harm. At any rate, the Greys are much more humane and
serve a higher purpose than the ways people butcher cattle for meat.

The Greys are ahead of us in technology due to their ability to work
together and since they never repress or destroy technology; that and
the importance of a society aimed toward an important collective goal
is why the Greys are abducting us and are charged with the creation of
the Hybrid race, and not the other way around. Many of the people
abducted are made so that they remember nothing of the experience,
except for perhaps "missing time" or other symptoms that come up
later, until they are recalled through hypnosis or other methods. One
might ask why people are abducted seemingly without their consent, and
why most of them aren't formally asked for permission beforehand.

It is important to remember that all "abductions" are based on
agreement. In other words, anyone detained by extraterrestrials has
subconsciously, either during sleep, before their present incarnation,
or whatever, has agreed to take it into their dharma to help Earth in
its work with the extraterrestrials. Most of the people being abducted
are advanced spiritually, and close to overcoming the last of their
fears, even if they aren't consciously aware of it, and are deserving
of praise for the sacrifices they are making in service to the Greys
and to humanity. Much of what is experienced is difficult to process
and has lasting effects, as I can attest to in personally knowing more
than one detainee, and love and understanding is essential in helping
to recover and integrate.

There is another important consideration to remember: The Greys are as
afraid of us as we are of them! Some of our fear in connection with
the Greys is the fact that they are here to help bring the collective,
unified mind to all of us, and we are scared that we might lose our
individuality and personal power. The Greys represent the collective
mind, and that frightens many of us; however, we represent the
individual mind, and that greatly scares *them*! Keep in mind that the
Greys are *not* any better than we are, and we should not give up our
individual freedom nor do anything other than what we choose or agree
to do; after all, that very quality is the asset we are contributing
in our interaction. Nobody is coming to enslave us, and nobody is
coming to save us either, rather we are co-creating with various
civilizations to the mutual benefit of both parties.

The Greys have been increasingly affecting our society since the
forties, and many images showing humanity's conscious or subconscious
fears or hopes in relation to the extraterrestrials have entered our
culture. For example, the movies, "Alien 1..3" and the series "V" (in
addition to their obvious other purposes, i.e. to make money and be
entertainment) represent our pessimism and fears toward the potentials
of an alien presense. On the other hand, "E.T." and many of the
episodes of Star Trek TNG represent our optimistic hopes for an
empathic interaction where we can both gain.

By far the best TV/movie example I've seen which captures the essence
of the Greys is "The Best of Both Worlds" episode of Star Trek TNG,
featuring a race of aliens called the "Borg". (Interestingly enough,
part I of the episode was re-aired on Fox Friday night, and part II
yesterday.) The Borg were a leaderless group, all the control being
spread throughout the collective consciousness of their ship, meaning
it's almost impossible to seriously harm them since they have no
critical sections. They were very adaptable and dispassionate, and the
many half-organic half-robot beings aboard their unemotional, drab,
gray, geometric ship fits the Greys very well, too. (Although the
Greys seem about equal in technology to the Pleiadians, their ships
are more Spartan, and rather then being saucer shaped, seem to be more
angular: triangular and cylinder shaped craft come to mind.) About the
only thing inaccurate about the representation was that the Borg were
an evil, hostile race which absolutely "absorbed" races it conquered,
probably similar to what some fear the Greys are like in real life.

Quite a few real UFO cases include the Greys and Hybrids. I'll mention
a couple of interesting ones: At a UFO convention I was at a few
months ago, Wendelle Stevens, the eminent author of many UFO books,
lectured on a case that took place not long ago in (I think) Puerto
Rico. In it, a group of several dozen people were simultaneously
detained and taken aboard a large spacecraft. There were a few
human-like alien leaders, along with a bunch of 3'-4' worker aliens
who looked like the Greys. The people were all quite apprehensive of
the alien creatures, but the leader told them they were quite
harmless, and proceeded to pick up one of the "Greys" and give it a
piggy-back ride. Another case was on a UFO TV special on network
television a year or two ago, on I think, "Unsolved Mysteries". In
this one, a father and son, after "missing time", recorded under
hypnosis a landing of Grey like aliens and one Hybrid. The man and son
felt very at home with them, like the extraterrestrials were their
true family, and were especially empathic with the Hybrid, and they
could hardly bear to leave the aliens when their meeting ended.

Concerning the Hybrids and their being the future of the human race, I
once again refer to the book "Bashar: Blueprint for Change; A Message
from our Future", by Darryl Anka and Luana Ewing. In this book Darryl
channels a loving and enthusiastic extraterrestrial from our future by
the name of Bashar. I have posted four various excerpts from the book
to the net in recent months. (A couple of them, about questions on
"good" and "bad" extraterrestrials, and on extraterrestrial abductions
and visitations and fear in general, are quite relevant to this
article.) Again, I highly recommend this book - it gives a detailed
view about the Reticulans and Hybrids, and information on a few other
important races: the Pleiadians of course, and those from Orion,
Sirius, and Arcturus. However, the majority of the 302 page book deals
with personal growth in various forms, such as fear and how to
overcome it, Christ's true message and what the "second coming" is
really referring to, a macroscopic view of a timeline of Earth changes
and how we can individually integrate them, and a lot more. What
wasn't stated until near the end of the book, however, is that Bashar
himself is one of the Hybrids!

Bashar goes in depth to describe Essassani, his home planet and the
home planet of his Hybrid race, which is apparently the future result
of our interaction with the Reticulans. Essassani means "place of
living light" and the descriptions he gives of them and their culture
show a remarkable amount of collectively working together, along with
lots of personal freedom and support of each individual's choices, and
love and enthusiasm everywhere. Essassani, the future planet, is a
more "etherealized" planet than Earth, and would be in what has been
called "fourth density". Some of the Earth change literature refers to
people leaving the planet, "graduating" from the Earth plane, a new
fourth density Earth, etc. I hypothesize that some of us will actually
be in Hybrid bodies in future incarnations! Although it is possible to
"ascend" all the way in our fine present human bodies, we should not
get attached to them or the human race, since the real self is not the
body. In a Hybrid body personal spiritual growth is easier due to the
increased emphasis on the One, more natural psychic faculties, and a
more naturally loving etheric environment - kind of like upgrading
from the old VT100 terminals to X windows!

Much of the suspicion concerning the Greys focuses on their
involvement with the U.S. government, and this apparently has lots to
do with the conspiracies some expect them to be behind. In fact, It
*is* true that the Greys have met with our government, although again,
the rationale is for a higher purpose, and most of the stories one
hears on this matter are distorted or highly exaggerated.

To me, any conspiracy on the part of the Greys is illogical. If they
did have tendencies to "take over", they could have done so much more
easily several hundred years ago when they first started observation.
(Actually, this isn't completely true, since the Intergalactic
Confederations strictly prohibit and prevent any such imperialism that
isn't part of the karmic evolution of the civilizations in question -
As the Pleiadians say, they are here to aid us until we learn to help
ourselves.) What the Greys have been doing is too precise and
calculated to simply be harassment. If they wanted to cause fear or
take over, there are much more effective methods then doing abductions
in the present way and taking an occasional sample from cattle.

The first modern formal scientific encounter Earth had with
extraterrestrials occurred when a Reticulum ship crashed in the
southwest US in 1947, killing a couple of Greys on board. This was
truly an accident, due to a radar malfunction, although again, it did
serve a planned higher purpose, and those Greys did, somewhere, agree
to honorably give their lives to show our government the first
evidence that we aren't alone. The reason why the Greys didn't land
publicly is the same reason why the government hasn't been releasing
information to us about the extraterrestrials (in addition to, of
course, the government's own selfishness about staying in control and
wanting to keep secrets away from other nations) which is, that such a
revelation would be a terrible shock to the core of the general
culture and would drastically alter society. (Imagine the upheaval in
our religious organizations!)

For this reason, it's desired to have a gradual introduction of
extraterrestrials to our society, or ultimately, have Earth's
integration of the alien presense come about through our own deduction
and acceptance, rather than having it forced upon us by some public
landing. This is part of the purpose behind many of the sightings,
abductions, visitations, as well as the crop circles: to get us
thinking and questioning. Although the Greys formally showed
themselves to the government, they along with the Pleiadians and other
races are waiting for the government on its own to admit to the alien
presence. Like it or not, the government is representative of the
collective consciousness of the people, and when enough of the
population believe they exist (a small group demanding the truth can
help but won't do it) this will make the government release the
information, since it would cause no societal problems with most
knowing the facts already. Even though our government can use
improvement in many areas, we have to remember that we are a part of
it, and we through our actions and inactions allowed what we currently
have to be manifest, and the extraterrestrials know and respect that.
If we don't like what we see, then we should work to change it - from
a standpoint of love and understanding of course, lest one become just
as dogmatic as what they desire to change.

There have been other meetings between the Greys and our government.
The early ones between them were probably very much like the one in
"Close Encounters of the Third Kind". Some of these have probably been
similar to some information that was passed from the Pleiadians to our
government in the 1970's; according to "UFO Contact from the Pleiades"
they tried to warn us about an ozone hole that would form if we didn't
correct some of our destructive environmental ways. Several alien
civilizations claim to have hidden bases on Earth, and with the Greys'
difficult genetic task at hand, they are certain to have one, too.
Meetings may have been necessary with the government to get certain
materials or places, and the Greys may occasionally have to drop in to
clarify things when a key government person themself is needed to be
detained to help make the Hybrid race!

Comparing again the Pleiadians and the Greys, one can see how the
Pleiadians are seen as friendly while the Greys seem more
untrustworthy. The attractive Pleiadians look like humans, and seem
more like cousins than aliens; after all, we come from a common
ancestry. The headstrong, enthusiastic nature of the Pleiadians isn't
threatening to the individualism characterizing us. The Greys however
are "different", and are seen much like how many humans would view a
foreigner or someone of a different race. Earth's interactions with
various extraterrestrial races can be seen as a macroscopic version of
the interaction between different ethnic groups in a local community.
And in both cases, understanding and mutual cooperation helps both
sides. The best way I can think of to sum up how we relate with both
races is as follows: The Pleiadians are Earth's older sibling, while
the Greys are Earth's spouse. They are both helping out in Earth's
growth in different ways - the Pleiadians can be seen as "internal"
growth and the Greys as "external" growth. As my friend Arasia said in
those earlier posts on Antahkarana, "Labeling the gray ET's as bad and
the blond ET's as good could be an oversimplification."

Perhaps much of what causes the idea of fear toward the Greys is
rather fear toward the collectiveness that they represent. Collective
thought is a threat to certain rigid self boundaries that the ego
defends. Earth is facing and overcoming much of its own fears in
connection with the Greys just as the Greys are facing their fear in
their dealings with us. Their having to meet with individual humans
and with a self-centered government is a very good way to put the
Greys in touch with and overcome their own denial of individuality.
If there were actually a conspiracy, I would say certain governments,
worried about losing power, are painting a picture of the Greys as
having evil intent, and hence can keep fear in the society, and slow
down the creation of the Hybrids. In other words, the conspiracy
itself is a conspiracy! However, rather than entertain such ideas (the
ego loves to deal with and invent external threats since they are
exciting and reinforce the structure of the self) I would say the
problem is more of an individual one, one where we still have personal
issues and fears to deal with on the way to realizing we are all One.

I hope this article helps to shed light on the Greys and what they are
doing here, and I hope any fear or pessimism concerning the alien
presence is reduced and is replaced with hope, enthusiasm, and the
will to take action and create a heaven on Earth. Ultimately, the
goodness or badness of anything is determined in how we choose to view
it. As it was said concerning the aliens, "We are them and they are
us". External things mirror back to us the way we choose to interact
with them; if one is tough on the environment, the environment will be
tough on them; if one choose to play the role of a victim, something
will come along to play an oppressor. Nothing bad will happen to us
unless we want it to. I notice increased suspicion of the aliens comes
right after the fall of the Berlin Wall. Who is going to be "The
Enemy" now? What would it be like to choose or have no enemies? What
is the Self/ Enlightenment/ Bliss/ The One/ All That Is/ God like?
What does spiritual growth involve doing? It is interesting to
meditate on the questions and what this whole ET issue is an external
manifestation of. In the coming pivotal years for Earth, we have
individual and collective decisions to make as to how we are going to
manifest our own realities. We have nothing to fear but fear itself.
As the saying goes, "First, say to yourself what you would be, then do
what you have to do." We are limited only by our aspiration!

It is important to look at the big picture. The galaxy is a lot like
(and in fact is in a way) a living creature, with different parts
serving different functions. And just as a growing being learns
different things at different times, so do different planetary
civilizations develop and represent different characteristics. Earth
and the Zeta Reticulum have developed two polarized concepts of how an
individual relates to society, and now having completed our tasks we
are unifying and passing on the fruits to higher societies. In a
similar manner, the Pleiadians and the Orion civilization developed
two polarized concepts of evolution: The Pleiadians expressed growth
through freedom and joy, while the Orions learned through the negative
aspects of limitation and oppression. According to Bashar, Earth is
part of a grand triad of planets ultimately developing "knowledge" in
its various forms. In contrast, there is a completely different system
of civilizations based around Arcturus that are developing the love
concept in its various aspects; there will be more vast unifications
between these different principles in the distant future, and still
greater ones later on, all playing a role in the great Plan of
Evolution in God's Creation. Above and Below, it is beautiful so!

--

-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
|     Walter D. "Cruiser1" Pullen     |     [e-mail]     |
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
|   "Who am I, What am I?  As I am, I am not.  But as we are, I AM.  And to   |
-   you my creation, My Perfect Love is your Perfect Freedom. And I will be   -
|   with you forever and ever, until the End, and then forever more." - GOD   |
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
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From: [e-mail] (Rhys Weatherley)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What do the _Greys_ *REALLY* want from us?
Keywords: Greys
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Apr 92 05:27:01 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Lines: 48

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Walter D. Pullen) writes:

Oh dear.  The prophet is back with the next chapter about the Purple Shade
of Greys. :-)  Anyway ...

>The Greys are here for basically one purpose: To create a new race of
>beings. Entities of this race are known as Hybrids because they are a
>cross between the Greys and Earth humans. The reason why these Hybrids
>are being made is twofold: To save their species and to help ours. In
>order to explain how the Hybrids will save us both, and explain the
>rationale behind their actions, a general description of the Greys and
>their features should be made:

Obviously the Greys don't hold to the David Zindell school of thought.  For
those who don't know, Zindell is the SF author of "Neverness" (a good read),
in which he said (more or less - I can't remember his exact words), and which
I agree with:

    "A man's body is his own, but his DNA belongs to his species".

i.e. you can sculpt your body in any fashion (massive plastic surgery, etc),
but messing with your DNA (or the DNA of your descendants) needs the
authorisation of the entire species.  He also said that stealing someone else's
DNA, or "skeling" as he called it, was one of the most abominable acts in his
fictional universe.  So, applying "Zindell's Law" to this situation, the
creation of Hybrids by the Greys is an abominable act (they are stealing our
DNA for their own purposes).  So much for them being "nice guys".

If it was necessary to guarantee the survival of our species (that's "ours",
not "theirs"), I may feel better about this violation of Zindell's Law, but
it is yet to be convincingly demonstrated that we are heading for total ruin
and hence need saving.  Creating some race (the Hybrids) that has the best of
collective and individual thought is not a good enough excuse in my opinion.

Cheers,

Rhys.

P.S. This post was hypothetical, based on the premise that Greys actually
     exist, and are carrying out the specified acts, and was not meant to
     imply that I either believe or disbelieve in their existence, or the
     nature of their activities.

+=====================+==================================+
||  Rhys Weatherley   |  The University of Queensland,  ||
||  [e-mail]  |  Australia.  G'day!!            ||
||       "I'm a FAQ nut - what's your problem?"         ||
+=====================+==================================+
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From: [e-mail] (Phred T. Platypus)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Apr 92 05:31:28 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Lines: 18

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (jcj) writes:
>
>The Lynn Russell clone has been neutralized!  Check out the *real*
>Lynn's haircolor now.
>
    I love Lynn Russell, clone on un-clone!

>Oh yeah!  Check this out!  I bought some dogfood and a bottle of seltzer
>at the grocery store and the total (with tax) was... $11.11 !?!??!!!!

   At the grocery store at home, two six-packs of Dr. Pepper and the
 latest issue of Omni cost $6.66.  Weird, huh?

--
"You ask me if sex is one of the most  _\_\    _/_/     Phred Platypus
 important things in life?  Absolutely. _\_\  _/_/  Grammarian of Vengeance
 But the lack of it is even likelier     _\_\_/_/ [ [e-mail] ]
 to drive you nuts." -- Harlan Ellison    _\_/       Vincent J. Murphy
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From: [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: What do the _Greys_ *REALLY* want from us?
Keywords: Greys
Message-ID: <harti.702825450@tubue>
Date: 9 Apr 92 13:17:30 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News  Manager)
Distribution: tub
Organization: ZRZ/TU-Berlin
Lines: 10
Nntp-Posting-Host: mikro.ee.tu-berlin.de

Hi,
is this a GREY alien, the GIF-picture at phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17)
in /pub/ufo_and_space_pics     alien.gif  ????

I heard it came from the 1947 UFO-crash at Roswell New Mexico (USA).

Was this a Grey who crashed over there or was this someone from the Plaiads ?

More infos are welcome !
Best regards, Stefan Hartmann.
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From: [e-mail] (Gary Stimpson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: UFO Magazine.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 9 Apr 92 13:58:46 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (BBS Account)
Organization: The Orion Unix System [A/UX 2.0.1], Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Lines: 10

Can I get the address for UFO Magazine?  I had it awhile back, but it's been
misplaced somewhere.  Also, can someone type out the table of contents for a
recent UFO Magazine?  I want to see what types of articles are in it.

Thanks,
Gary

--
[e-mail] (Gary Stimpson)
The Orion Unix System [A/UX 2.0.1], Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!darkstar!shawnee!berggren
From: [e-mail] (Harry Berggren)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Beware The Pleiedians!
Keywords: Aliens, Pleiedians, Graffiti
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Apr 92 02:18:13 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: I'm too confused to get ORGANIZED
Lines: 25

The other day, while engaged in peaceful meditation in one of the
public johns on campus here (UCSC), I noticed on the wall, a snippet
of graffiti:  "Beware the Pleiedians!" it said.  It struck me as
being quite humorous, and yet somewhat surreal too.  The bathroom
walls are, of course, known for hosting the very best in humorous
anecdotes, but somehow, somehow, I found myself thinking "How strange!"

Enough people are now becoming aware of the alien presence among us
that the phenomenon has arrived on the bathroom wall.  I had this wierd
feeling that my life was somehow entering into some kind of Hollywood
movie plot, that would only get thicker and more adventurous as the
days and months passed.

What I want to know is, where are the Sirians?  Or are we them?


Joyfull exploration to you all.

                             /\
                            /  \
                           /    \
                          /  __  \
                         /,_/_*`)~\
                        /          \
-Harry                  ------------
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Me
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Apr 92 04:05:20 GMT
References: <=[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Lines: 12

In article <[e-mail]>,
>[e-mail] writes:
> The number is 42, but it's not God, it's the answer to the meaning of the
> universe.  But what the hell's the question ?!!?

For all those who haven't seen Douglas Adams' HITCHIKERS GUIDE TO THE UNIVERSE
trilogy: after millions of years of calculation by the most powerful computer
the answer was indeed 42. The question had been forgotten by then, but was
assumed to be "the meaning of life". To find out the question they travelled
back in time to observe it being written in the dust by primitive man:

       6       x         8       =           ?
Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!metro!seagoon.newcastle.edu.au!cc.newcastle.edu.au!ccasm
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: The Pleiades Needs Telescopes! (Re: The Pleiadians: Awakening)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Apr 92 03:47:52 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Lines: 28
Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10029 alt.alien.visitors:5236 sci.skeptic:22565

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (James Davis Nicoll) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>>
>     Gibberish deleted
>
>     The star system of the Pleiades has seven stars, six of which we
>>believe, you may see from the naked eye.
>
>     Hee hee. Millions of years of residence, and the only members of
> that group of stars they know about are the ones *we* can see with the naked
> eye from Earth. Pretty poor astronomers, these  Pleiadians. One could be
> excused for wondering whether they aren't just the delusion of a terran
> ignorant of astronomy...
>
>     Clearly, there's a market in the Pleiades for glasses and telescopes.
>
>                             James Nicoll
>
> Is this stuff about another universe new to the Pleiadian mythos since the
> previous appearance? I seem to recall people pointing out the Pleiadians
> predate the Pleiades they claim to come from...

Correct. Down here in Oz even my young son can see more than seven stars in
the Pleiades group with his naked eye,( like about 15 stars)  although I
need a telescope to see them. guess my eyes arn't any better than a
Pleiadians.   ^ ^    BIG AL.
               |
              \_/
Path: ns-mx!uunet!psgrain!percy!nosun!techbook!nancyp
From: [e-mail] (Nancy Parsons)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Apr 92 05:30:01 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: TECHbooks of Beaverton Oregon - Public Access Unix
Lines: 84

[e-mail] (barry.o.olson) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Roger Lee) writes:
>> In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:
>>
>> >In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>> >>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:
>> >>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Matthew Fields) writes:
>> >>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Julian F Waldby) writes:
>> >>>>>In article <[e-mail]>
>> >>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
>> >>>>>> [e-mail] (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes:
>> >>>>>> >In article <[e-mail]>
>> >>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
B
>> >>>>>> >>[e-mail] (Kevin L. McBride) writes:
>> >>>>>> >>>[e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>> >>>>>> >>>> In article <[e-mail]>
>> >>>>>[e-mail] (barry.o.olson) writes:
>> >>>>>> >>>> >In article <[e-mail]>,
>> >>>>>[e-mail] (Russ Taylor) writes:
>> >>>>>> >>>> >> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James
>> >>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>> >>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed]
>> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS.
>> >>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper.
>> >>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH.  I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT.
>> >>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*.
>> >>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you
>> >>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents?  A thousand-degree flame on you!
>> >>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!)
>> >>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth?
>> >>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich
>> >>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width.
>> >>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it?
>> >>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it
>> >>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it.
>> >>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor
>> >>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor
>> >>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer.
>> >>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE?  PLEASE EXERCISE
>> >>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT.
>> >>>>>> >>>Okay.
B
>> >>>>>> >>    Come on guys, I think he means it.  Don't follow up to this.
>> >>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious.
>> >>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up.
>> >>>>>> >Or kill me.
>> >>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess.
>> >>>>>Shhhh!
>> >>>>>> >[e-mail]
>> >>>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming  305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139
>> >>>>>> >(  the  nonibo  -ibo  )  [phone] [home]  [phone] [office]
>> >>>>>>     No!  Don't follow up to this!  Whatever you do, _don't_ press
>> >>>>>> that "f" button!  It's a sin!  It's a sin!  This is against the gods
>> >>>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly!  See what you do!  You waste and
>> >>>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens!  Nay, until the
>> >>>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the
>> >>>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up!  My
>> >>>>>> _GOD_!  How can you even think it!  How can you dream it and still
>> >>>>>> remain sane?!?!?  How can it be?!?!?!?!  Gah!!!!
>> >>>>>> [e-mail]      | The meek shall inherit the earth,
>> >>>>>> [e-mail] |     and the wise keep moving on...
>> >>>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156     O    |-----------------------------------------
>> >>>>>>  Amherst, NY  14226      +    |Ask me about the Secret Society!  Shhhh!
>> >>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion?  I
>> >>>>>missed the earlier parts.
>> >>>There.  No more wasted "Bandwidth"
>> >>Huh?
>> >Duh!
>> NOT!
>Knot Groc
>NOW STOP IT??!!**%%0-0
>                     >
>                    ~
AARRGH!  I can't help myself - don't touch that "f" key - OK - but
don't touch that "s" key ...


--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Nancy Parsons            | "You can't fire me - slaves must be sold!   |
|------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| [e-mail]  ...!{tektronix!nosun,uunet}techbook!nancyp        |
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Conversation with the Plieadians 3
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Apr 92 08:05:26 GMT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 314
Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10032 alt.alien.visitors:5238 sci.skeptic:22579

A Conversation With The Pleiadians

The following is an except from a class session.

    The earth sphere, Terra, is in a state of great change. Historically,
from a linear perspective, you have been told that you have been on your
planet for X number of years. Your scientists think that you have been
civilized for a short amount of time and evolved from ape to man.
    That is completely incorrect. Highly formed Adamic man has been on
your planet for eons. Your planet was seeded by extraterrestrials. It was an
experiment initiated by the one we call First Cause whom you may refer to as
God, Prime Creator, All That Is, whichever you are comfortable with. First
Cause is the energy essence of creativity.
    First Cause is in all things. Consciousness is within all things.
First Cause's primary journey now is to gather information and increase the
potential of being. On a global scale, humanities are attempting to understand
that your world is a direct result of your thoughts.
    Your main challenge at this time [is] to learn how to handle thought
manifestation and the manipulation of matter and existence. Once [it] is
implanted within you that this is a core, basic idea, a universal law of
being, you will be liberating yourselves from a restricted existence that has
been boxing you in all these millions of years.
    There have been those on your planet who have individually, or within
small groupings, taken this information and utilized it and freed themselves
from the tethers of three dimensional experience. But what is occurring on
your planet and why all are restless is that the movement now is towards a
universal knowing and understanding. As each of you learn to expand your own
consciousness and allow information and experiences to enter into your
reality, as you grow telepathically, you effect those around you, in your
family, in your school systems, in your neighborhoods and then, of course,
within your world. What will eventually happen is what you call critical mass,
when a certain number of individuals achieve a certain state of knowing,
others will instantly comprehend.
    The times that lie ahead in the next ten to fifteen years are going to
be quite interesting. You are going to see your reality turn upside down. You
are going to see chaos, confusion. You are going to see a crack in the
cultural paradigm structure that has been the reality of your world up until
this time.
    Historically speaking, your world has been defined most explicitly in
the last five hundred to six hundred of your years by scientists and by
learned intellectuals and you have not questioned this. The world seems solid.
You seem solid. You all seem to live in the same world at the same time. Not
so. It is not so at all.
    You are moving into the fourth dimension of experience. The third
dimensional experience is composed of thinking. The fourth dimensional
experience is more involved with perceiving, utilizing the entire being.
    You have been defined so precisely that you do not question who you
are. You have accepted a thousand years of definition from those you consider
authorities because they happen to speak louder or publish books or gather
degrees. That is nonsense.
    Always question what you hear, including what we are telling you.
Become your OWN authority. This is what Terra is moving towards each one
discovering their own integrity, their own completeness of being, their own
responsibility to themselves and to the world that they participate in.
    You will discover how to become this authority by trusting yourselves
and by questioning what you are told, particularly from your governments,
school systems, television and newspapers. Read between the lines. It would do
you a great amount of good.
    QUESTION: Some of us are getting to the point where we are no longer
willing to listen to the government. We want to know how we can bring about
environmental changes.
    PLEIADIANS: The changes that are most important for everyone to make
are the changes that are within yourselves. We speak over and over again that
you are your primary tool to be working with. If you are concerned with the
environment and what is occurring, take care of whatever you have, your amount
of land. Wherever you are involved, use your thoughts to create a harmony with
Mother Nature.
    What you must understand is a certain amount of disruption is
necessary in order for this shift of consciousness to occur. It seems as if
your planet is falling apart environmentally. It is, from our perspective, a
necessary path in order to move humanities through their growth. If all were
perfect on your planet, in other words, if the environment was in ideal
condition, it would not be ripe for the shift in consciousness that will
occur. A certain amount of disruption or chaos is necessary to create new
order.
    Your earth is a sentient being. It is alive. It is conscious. Your
greatest step is to align yourself in communication and ask Mother Earth to
give you what you need and commit yourself to giving Mother Earth what she
needs.
    If you feel the need to be involved with others to clean a stream or a
lake, that is fine. But it is not for you to go out and wave flags at others.
The work that you do is work within your minds. You are mental beings, far
more than that, you are spiritual beings. You are thought manifestors.
    You can do much more with your thoughts than you can by racing around
from one committee to another pounding the hammers and the nails. When you use
the mind in meditation to bring light to Mother Earth, you act as a bridge
from the cosmos and from First Cause to earth and light is carried in.
    We say this to allow you to rest easier about your environment. There
are extraterrestrial energies that have technologies that could clean your
environment up very quickly, within a few days or weeks. If, however, this was
done, what do you think would occur?
    Those who have been destroying the planet would say "No problem we can
keep doing what we are doing, the world is fine." Then you will be back in the
same boat.
    Terra is working towards becoming the jewel within your sector of the
universe that it was originally designed to be. The darkness is being thrown
off. Terra is indeed moving towards great enlightenment. There is a state of
consciousness that needs to be understood. You are all connected. You are all
one. You cannot be here without your earth sphere. Can you understand that?
Can you understand that the others need to learn this lesson?
    It will be learned. The earth will heal itself. There will be changes,
earth changes. You had an experience of an earth change in your past summer
when you had the big fires throughout your United States. That is a form of
earth change. Your recent experience with the forces of winds, the tornadoes,
are forms of changes. As you see these things occurring, rejoice because lives
and consciousness are effected. Each time something like this occurs, a new
person steps into a state of realization. It is Mother Earth cleansing and
healing herself.
    Do not worry, your world is not being destroyed. There is great
assistance hovering around your planet. Within physical realms and
non-physical realms there are multitudes of extraterrestrial beings throughout
the solar system here to assist in whatever needs to be done. Because you are
a freewill universe, we cannot interfere. We can assist . As you call for
assistance we will be giving it for those who wish to consciously evolve
themselves into a more dynamic, fulfilling experience. Questions?
    QUESTION: I have a question concerning the painful things like
alcoholism and abuse that effect many children and many lives and carry over
into adulthood and effect relationships. I come from an alcoholic family and I
realize that I've chosen that. But the pain and torment from that has created
some very confusing choices that I've made that were detrimental to my life.
I'm trying to rid myself of that pain, but it's hard for me to put myself in
situations that are good for me instead of being attracted to something that
is familiar.
    PLEIADIANS: All can learn from this story that is being shared, the
story about pain and confusion and anger and powerlessness and recognizing
that it is a choice of sorts.
    First of all, understand that when you are in a state of confusion and
you recognize that you are in that state, congratulate yourselves. You are
scrambling up old behavior patterns and beliefs and you are disturbing old
orders and ways of being so that you can realign them. Do not feel you are
going nowhere when you are in a state of chaos and confusion. It is a high
state of being as long as you do not perpetually stay there. You prevent
yourself from perpetually staying there by honoring, surrendering and
acknowledging that you are working on something.
    Self-love and trust is essential for personal growth. When one creates
a situation that seems to be less than ideal, when one has parents who are not
"Father Knows Best" types, it seems as if one perhaps was gypped. But then, if
one believes one creates one's own reality and they choose their parents then
you can get into a bit of a muddle [about] why you choose a situation that is
less than ideal.
    One must ask what is it serving for me? In what way am I creating an
opportunity for my own growth? What are the challenges of the parents? What is
in this for me? As you judge any situation you keep yourself there.
Relinquishing the judgment of right or wrong allows one to move through the
experience and have compassion for one's own self.
    Often you place yourselves in situations of difficulty so that you can
help others that are in greater difficulty. If you have a silver spoon life,
often it is more difficult for you to relate to the other members of humanity.
When you have come from an area of great challenge and less than ideal
situations and you are able to see that you are a result of thought
manifestation, it is quite simple through great intent and desire to change
whatever has been occurring around you. Because you have finished with the
lesson, you see now that you needed to experience those parents and that they
needed to learn about their addictive behavior that keeps them sequestered
from life. It is a lesson for you as well as for the world. Your families are
your mirrors. You are all mirrors for one another. Learn to accept this and
surrender to the idea that it is your play you are in. You are the primary
actor, the primary writer and director.
    Allow yourselves to step outside of the scenario that you are enacting
and observe it and see what it is doing for you and then rewrite it. Allow
yourself not to annihilate that experience but to build on it, add on to it.
You get yourselves in big trouble when you try to erase chunks of your lives.
Integrate who you are and make yourselves whole by adding new information,
experience and trusting that you are moving towards great opportunities of
love, self-love and growth, and that ideally you are working towards service.
    Service is the ultimate healing of the self. When one is involved in
service, it seems as if one is assisting others. When one is involved in
service, one is involved with the ultimate healing of one's own soul. One is
liberated, connected with the oneness of being. In order to move into service,
you need to have a file full of experience so that you can relate and carry
out what is necessary for you to [serve]. Any of you that are finding
yourselves in situations of pain, ask yourselves do you believe life is
painful? How much pain is necessary? Is it possible to live a life without
pain?
    Remember that you selected your parents because it was in that nest
that you could do your greatest growing and learning. You did not take last
choice, for there are no last choices. You are born in the most ideal
situation that there is. Your parents are your guardians in the physical
world. They structure your belief system and they structure your thoughts.
    Life does not have to be painful. Examine your basic feelings and
beliefs. If you are finding some of them are less than ideal, lay them to
rest, discard them as you would go through your closet and pick out the
clothes that no longer fit. It is what you all could be doing now with your
thoughts. Those that no longer fit and aren't productive or enhance the world
as you need to experience it, discard them.
    In your mind's eye create a mental visualization in meditation where
you have a big box. Inside of this box you place all of the things that you do
not need any longer, all of the old behavior patterns and teachings. Mentally
forgive your parents for their own ignorance. Forgive them for what they did
not know to teach you. Forgive yourself for judging them for what you think
they did not do for you. You will see that you will move forward and you will
repattern and effect many others for your own personal growth.
    Remember again, you are your primary tool. You are the lump of clay
that you are designing and working with. Keep that in mind. You are working
with yourself and not others. Others are a by-product.
    Work with the self and you will change the world. Love yourself and
you will change the world. Ask that you be shown the way. Call for guidance.
Call for assistance. Allow yourself to surrender to the highest good that your
self can manifest. And then release and forgive.
    QUESTION: I feel that my whole being is getting ready to change, and
there is a big fear there of not knowing. I want to know. I am praying for
guidance. And the answer that I get now is "wait," and "it's not time" and
"patience." Instead of the patience building, I'm reaching a point of
impatience.
    PLEIADIANS: That is because you are not trusting yourself. You are
afraid of what is Iying ahead of you. First of all, understand that each of
you live in your own world. You agree on a mass level that there is one world,
but you each form your own world of experience. If you choose that world to be
safe, it will indeed be safe. Within that safety, fearful elements may brush
up against you. But, if you believe, that you are guided and you are blessed,
and you intend beyond all others that you have a safe world that is joyful,
then indeed it shall be. We are not talking about the world that anyone else
lives in but you.
    When you learn to trust and to commit yourself to a world of safety
and beauty, then there is a certain patience that comes as you allow that
world to unfold in front of you.
    It is up to you to be patient and love who you are and trust that the
dark journeys that your soul has chosen to take were all a part of experience
which was needed so that you would have a greater understanding of where
others choose to go. You, yourself, can carry a light now, and lead them out.
But first you must realize what it is that you are and why you have gone
there. You would not understand if you did not have first hand experience.
    Do not judge what you do and where you have been. Accept your power.
Accept who you are. Accept that you carry light for yourselves, and then
surrender to your role and be patient and allow it to unfold. Time will
accelerate quickly enough for you. Do not rush it ahead. You have many years
of work and play ahead, all of you. It is what you are about. You are
gathering now. You are gathering your knowledge, your commitment. You are
forming your roles of leadership. There will be many pillars that will be
needed in the new society. Many who will be needed to stand strong and to
believe in themselves. We ask that you accept this responsibility, all of you.
    QUESTION: I feel that when one is involved in a search for self that
one is quite vulnerable, especially in the sleep state. I've experienced what
I felt was a very negative intrusion during this sleep state. Is that
possible?
    PLEIADIANS: Your opening statement to us was, "I believe" or "I feel
one is vulnerable." That is your essence. That is what you are putting power
behind. That is what you are calling to manifest. A demonstration in your
belief in vulnerability. So, of course, you would experience anything that
would demonstrate that you can indeed be vulnerable to unexpected intrusions.
To takeovers. To whatever goes along with being vulnerable.
    It is not in your greatest opportunity for growth to believe in your
vulnerability or that you can be victimized. You will create for yourself
demonstrations. It is more ideal to utilize the thought manifestation to form
the world that says "I believe I am safe. I believe I am guided. I believe I
am blessed. I believe that I am divinely taught and instructed within my dream
state." Can you see the difference?
    QUESTION: In choice of words.
    PLEIADIANS: In choice of belief. You can choose those words and
believe still that you are vulnerable and try to convince yourself that you
are not vulnerable. You must search into your life to see why you select the
idea that you are vulnerable. Whenever one thinks one is vulnerable, one can
say, "but this happened to me to demonstrate that I am indeed vulnerable."
    We are saying thought comes first and experience is always secondary.
It is never the other way around. It is never that you have the experience and
then you base the thought around it. Always your experience is a direct
reflection of what you are thinking.
    This is why we are saying monitor the thoughts, get to know the self.
Speak with others in a loving way. Speak out. "I believe" and "I feel." When
you speak in this fashion, you are coming to the core of who you are. And when
you come to this area you can see how you form your experience by what you
feel and what you think.
    If you are finding areas that seem less than ideal, then attempt to
change. If you cannot change immediately then, for a few minutes each day you
institute the new feeling by adapting the idea that for five minutes you will
feel safe and guided. Then go back to feeling vulnerable the rest of the time.
    If you do this a few times every day, you will see that your thoughts
make you feel one way or another.
    QUESTION: Everything that you have said tonight seems to me to be the
basis of metaphysical teaching, the way I understand it.
    PLEIADIANS: It is so. What we are saying to you, to your planet, is
that the information has been here for eons. It has been covered up and kept
from you, but it is basic free information. We are merely here to remind you,
prod you forward and to give you a direct experience through contact to smooth
out any areas where you may have questions and allow you to propel forward.
And, for our part, to encourage you, and to send you love, so that you can
know that you are love.
    You are greatly regarded, and your planet is a beautiful place of
being. Be proud of who you are. We are coming here out of choice. We are
coming here because we cherish you.
    You are multi-dimensional beings and you peek into many realities, all
of which are valid, and all of which are real. Awaken yourselves.
    It has been our pleasure to speak with you, we send you our blessings.
Call on us when you need assistance. Create your own avenues of expression,
for you truly are on the journey of greatness.

THE SOURCE: The Pleiadians are a collective of extraterrestrials from the star
system the Pleiades. The Pleiadian culture is ancient and was "seeded" from
another universe of love long before Earth was created. They have formed a
tremendous society which operates with love, with ideas and ideals that we are
yet unfamiliar with. The Pleiadians call themselves our ancient family because
many of us came here from the Pleiades to participate in the new experiment of
Earth. The Pleiadians are now here as ambassadors from another universe to
help Earth through her difficult transition from the third dimension to the
fourth dimension and to assist each of us in our personal endeavors of
awakening, remembering and knowing.

THE CHANNEL: Barbara J. Marciniak has been a student of Metaphysics for many
years. She gives credit to the Seth material channeled by Jane Roberts for her
insight into the necessity for conscious, intentional creation of personal
experience. Barbara travels extensively. In Athens, Greece in May of 1988, she
began channeling The Pleiadians after she and a group of friends experienced a
spiritual awakening in the Great Pyramid at Giza. Barbara currently lives in
Raleigh, North Carolina where she gives class sessions and workshops with The
Pleiadians. You may contact Barbara at Bold Connections Unlimited P. O. Box
6521 Raleigh, NC 27628
       S U B S C R I B E T O CONNECTING LINK   1 Year Subscription (6 issues)
is just $20 U.S. (12 issues) $35   Canada $32* (air) 12 issues $59*   Overseas
$44* (air) 12 issues $83*  To order your subscription use order form in center
of magazine Credit card orders only call [phone] * U.S. Currency
Connecting Link Magazine 9392 Whitneyville Rd. Alto, MI. 49302-9694

Copyrighted by Barbara  Marciniak  Reprinted from Connecting Link Magazine
with permission.
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From: l228-a10@portent (l228-a10)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Near Washington NJ
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Apr 92 18:29:26 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: University of CA, Berkeley
Lines: 15
NNTP-Posting-Host: portent.berkeley.edu

I'm posting to this group for the first time, and I'm not sure if
this is the correct forum for this question.  Please correct me
if I am in the wrong place.

Has anyone had any sort of unusual encounters anywhere near
Washington, NJ, specifically on Montana Mountain?  I have
seen a few unusual sights which I cannot explain.  I don't
want to elaborate at this time, so as not to color anyone's
responses, but in general what I saw was light I could not
explain and a strange absence of sound which I could not
explain.  If anyone is interested I will elaborate more at
a later time, so you all can try to prove it was something
easily explainable.  If you are serious and saw something
there, please let me know at [e-mail]. or in
this newsgroup.  Thanks       Heather Schwabe
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From: [e-mail] (David Carter)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: It seems kinda simple to me.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Apr 92 06:19:17 GMT
References: <1992Apr5.204639.11982@anasaz> <[e-mail]> <d#[e-mail]>
Organization: sdf Public Access UNIX, Dallas--unrestricted free shell access
Lines: 7

Don't you mean Betty & Barney Rubble?
just asking.

David Carter           : URANUS: not truly a place
aka Hideo Gump         : where the Sun don't shine,
Dallas, Texas USA      : but certainly a place where
[e-mail] : the Sun shines dimly!
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From: [e-mail] (Brian Spolarich)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 10 Apr 92 19:48:26 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (usenet news)
Organization: University of Michigan, ITD Consulting and Support Services
Lines: 20
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Gary Stollman) writes:
>WELL, it has been a strange three months here in LA...God is continuing to
>wipe out the demons that have tried to destroy my family, and I have great
>hope for my future now...It looks like we just might win!!  But the impact
>on my psyche is irreversible, I'm afraid...I just don't know what these
>aliens will come up with next...They have the phones tapped to the gills,
>and the CIA has most of the nodes (bbses) I call bugged and also the
>people on GEnie that are on the boards I frequent, but me thinks they
>might be getting tired somewhat...They know now that I didn't pull that
>toy gun on David Horowitz for nothing...But I don't think they know
>exactly WHY I did it...They will find out soon enough, I think...
>
>        Gary
>
> This is from
>     [e-mail]
>who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet


    Are we a little paranoid?  Time for some Prozac, I think.
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From: [e-mail] (barry.o.olson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 11 Apr 92 02:22:54 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: AT&T
Lines: 20

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (jcj) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (barry.o.olson) writes:
> >We are all pulling for ya buddy! keep up the good work, and
> >don't let the aliens steal your sanity.
> >I still watch CNN, but haven't seen anything weird or unusual
> >except they keep featuring Bill Clinton. Keep us posted!
>
> The Lynn Russell clone has been neutralized!  Check out the *real*
> Lynn's haircolor now.

On my set it goes from a blurred/reddish blue to yellow!

>
> Oh yeah!  Check this out!  I bought some dogfood and a bottle of seltzer
> at the grocery store and the total (with tax) was... $11.11 !?!??!!!!
> --

Better lay low. Them are preparing you for the clone switch!
Just to be sure, try buying something like a TV set and see
if they charge you $11.11 .
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From: [e-mail] (barry.o.olson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 11 Apr 92 02:45:55 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: AT&T
Lines: 87

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Nancy Parsons) writes:
> [e-mail] (barry.o.olson) writes:
>
> >In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Roger Lee) writes:
> >> In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:
> >>
> >> >In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
> >> >>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:
> >> >>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Matthew Fields) writes:
> >> >>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Julian F Waldby) writes:
> >> >>>>>In article <[e-mail]>
> >> >>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
> >> >>>>>> [e-mail] (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes:
> >> >>>>>> >In article <[e-mail]>
> >> >>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
> B
> >> >>>>>> >>[e-mail] (Kevin L. McBride) writes:
> >> >>>>>> >>>[e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
> >> >>>>>> >>>> In article <[e-mail]>
> >> >>>>>[e-mail] (barry.o.olson) writes:
> >> >>>>>> >>>> >In article <[e-mail]>,
> >> >>>>>[e-mail] (Russ Taylor) writes:
> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James
> >> >>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes:
> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed]
> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS.
> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper.
> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH.  I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOULD STOP IT.
> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*.
> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but only after you
> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents?  A thousand-degree flame on you!
> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!)
> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth?
> >> >>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich
> >> >>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width.
> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it?
> >> >>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it
> >> >>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it.
> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor
> >> >>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor
> >> >>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer.
> >> >>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE?  PLEASE EXERCISE
> >> >>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT.
> >> >>>>>> >>>Okay.
> B
> >> >>>>>> >>    Come on guys, I think he means it.  Don't follow up to this.
> >> >>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious.
> >> >>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up.
> >> >>>>>> >Or kill me.
> >> >>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess.
> >> >>>>>Shhhh!
> >> >>>>>> >[e-mail]
> >> >>>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming  305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA 02139
> >> >>>>>> >(  the  nonibo  -ibo  )  [phone] [home]  [phone] [office]
> >> >>>>>>     No!  Don't follow up to this!  Whatever you do, _don't_ press
> >> >>>>>> that "f" button!  It's a sin!  It's a sin!  This is against the gods
> >> >>>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly!  See what you do!  You waste and
> >> >>>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens!  Nay, until the
> >> >>>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the
> >> >>>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up!  My
> >> >>>>>> _GOD_!  How can you even think it!  How can you dream it and still
> >> >>>>>> remain sane?!?!?  How can it be?!?!?!?!  Gah!!!!
> >> >>>>>> [e-mail]      | The meek shall inherit the earth,
> >> >>>>>> [e-mail] |     and the wise keep moving on...
> >> >>>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156     O    |-----------------------------------------
> >> >>>>>>  Amherst, NY  14226      +    |Ask me about the Secret Society!  Shhhh!
> >> >>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion?  I
> >> >>>>>missed the earlier parts.
> >> >>>There.  No more wasted "Bandwidth"
> >> >>Huh?
> >> >Duh!
> >> NOT!
> >Knot Groc
> >NOW STOP IT??!!**%%0-0
> >                     >
> >                    ~
> AARRGH!  I can't help myself - don't touch that "f" key - OK - but
> don't touch that "s" key ...
Oh God, now you did it!!
Homer's Horseradish roared---
>
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> | Nancy Parsons            | "You can't fire me - slaves must be sold!   |
> |------------------------------------------------------------------------|
> | [e-mail]  ...!{tektronix!nosun,uunet}techbook!nancyp        |
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From: [e-mail] (Mark Gellis)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Comments and Questions
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 11 Apr 92 19:11:18 GMT
Organization: Purdue University Computing Center
Lines: 36

I've been reading this newsgroup for a few days now, having been intrigued
by my girlfriend's claim to have seen a UFO some years ago, and I have a
few remarks and questions.

First, how reliable do all these stories of alien abductions seem?  Yes,
they remember the stuff under hypnosis, etc., but does this really prove
anything beyond the fact that they believe they were abducted?

Second, what's the business with the cattle mutilations.  Are these for
real?  Cows with their eyes surgically removed with something people think
is a laser?  Now, I confess to having a few strange interests of my own,
but what possible motivation could aliens have for stealing the eyeballs
out of cows!?  I could see it happening once or twice, if it was a bio-
logical expedition of some kind, but hundreds of times?

It has occurred to me that these sinister attacks, but the low number of
them (the whole planet does not seem to have been overwhelmed by the little
green guys, after all) might be explained in one way that I have not seen
proposed before:

    1) The aliens are real, and know about us, but MOST of them do not
       wish to disturb us.  After all, there is probably nothing on Earth
       they cannot get somewhere else, but the information they get from
       observing another intelligent species is probably priceless to
       them.

    2) The UFOs seen high in the sky are probes.  They won't bother us.

    3) The abductions and cattle mutilations are the work of alien
       CRIMINALS, aliens who do not care what they do to a younger
       civilization or the planet it lives on.  On Earth, we call such
       beings "poachers."  They're here for cheap thrills and to steal,
       for an exclusive set of clients, things they can't get legally
       (recordings of the memories of abducted humans, etc.)

Any thoughts?
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!rutgers!cmcl2!sbcs.sunysb.edu!csws17.ic.sunysb.edu!dtiberio
From: [e-mail] (David Tiberio)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 11 Apr 92 03:14:29 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet poster)
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Lines: 13
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Nntp-Posting-Host: csws17.ic.sunysb.edu


    I have a friend who lives in my dorm who has a
sister who has a clone. The clone acts almost like you
would expect it to, except that sometimes it behaves
sluggishly. I keep telling her to get rid of the clone
and get an Amiga instead.



--
      //   David Tiberio  SUNY Stony Brook 2-3662  AMIGA  DDD-MEN
     //  Not the llama! Come here Earl; I want to tell you something...
   \X/  Liverpool, New York    flames to [e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (David O Hunt)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Conversation with the Plieadians 3
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 12 Apr 92 04:45:51 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Masters student, Mechanical Engineering, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 19
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In-Reply-To: <[e-mail]>

BWWAAAAAA-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!


Again, Don, thanks for the laughs!  The semester-end crunch is here and
I really
appreciate the comic relief!





David Hunt - Graduate Slave | My mind is my own.          | Towards both a
Mechanical Engineering      | So are my ideas & opinions. | Palestinian and
Carnegie Mellon University  | <<<Use Golden Rule v2.0>>>  | Jewish homeland!
============================================================================
Email:  [e-mail]        I think, therefore I am paid. (S. Harris)

"You should be furious that polluters are threatening your great-great-
grand children's lives!"---Iroquois chief speaking about the environment.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!darwin.sura.net!haven.umd.edu!decuac!pa.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!cpdw.enet.dec.com!rosch
From: [e-mail] (Ray Rosch)
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,alt.alien.visitors,sci.skeptic
Subject: Re: Conversation with the Plieadians 3
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Apr 92 01:42:07 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Followup-To: talk.religion.newage
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Lines: 27
Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10047 alt.alien.visitors:5247 sci.skeptic:22609


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes...
>A Conversation With The Pleiadians
>
>The following is an except from a class session.
>
>    The earth sphere, Terra, is in a state of great change. Historically,
.
.        deleted
.
>       S U B S C R I B E T O CONNECTING LINK   1 Year Subscription (6 issues)
>is just $20 U.S. (12 issues) $35   Canada $32* (air) 12 issues $59*   Overseas
>$44* (air) 12 issues $83*  To order your subscription use order form in center
>of magazine Credit card orders only call [phone] * U.S. Currency
>Connecting Link Magazine 9392 Whitneyville Rd. Alto, MI. 49302-9694
>
>Copyrighted by Barbara  Marciniak  Reprinted from Connecting Link Magazine
>with permission.

Golly!  Not only is this taking up bandwidth on a voluntary association's
network but they also vertize for subscriptions - ie: profit.  How do
you feel about this non-profit, voluntary network being used to solicit
$'s?

****
Disclaimer: Opinions expressed do not in any way reflect those of my employer
****
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!yale.edu!jvnc.net!netnews.upenn.edu!eniac.seas.upenn.edu!vvallopp
From: [e-mail] (Vinod V Valloppillil)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: UFO ftp sites
Keywords: ftp
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Apr 92 01:04:43 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Pennsylvania
Lines: 4
Nntp-Posting-Host: eniac.seas.upenn.edu


    Does anyone have a list of ftp sites that contain ufo/alien/conspiracy
material?  I'm pretty sure that a list of the type exists and if it doesn't,
then it should.  My contribution is ns-mx.uiowa.edu.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!hoptoad!chroma
From: [e-mail] (Steve Kudlak)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 12 Apr 92 12:37:34 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Steve Kudlak)
Organization: Mountain View Labs Genetic Engineering
Lines: 53
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5249 alt.conspiracy:14008 talk.religion.newage:10049 alt.paranormal:4777

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Brian Spolarich) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Gary Stollman) writes:
>>WELL, it has been a strange three months here in LA...God is continuing to
>>wipe out the demons that have tried to destroy my family, and I have great
>>hope for my future now...It looks like we just might win!!  But the impact
>>on my psyche is irreversible, I'm afraid...I just don't know what these
>>aliens will come up with next...They have the phones tapped to the gills,
>>and the CIA has most of the nodes (bbses) I call bugged and also the
>>people on GEnie that are on the boards I frequent, but me thinks they
>>might be getting tired somewhat...They know now that I didn't pull that
>>toy gun on David Horowitz for nothing...But I don't think they know
>>exactly WHY I did it...They will find out soon enough, I think...
>>
>>        Gary
>>
>> This is from
>>     [e-mail]
>>who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet
>
>
>    Are we a little paranoid?  Time for some Prozac, I think.
>
>
>
>
>



Wrong drug I think the psychs would precribe Navane (thiothixene)
5mg t.i.d. but alas....anyway this does sound like something a SCI-FI
(SF ) Fan would pull....but anyway megabandwith can get wasted from
just arguing over SF, SCi-FI or whatever....Just cross post and you'll
see. Speaking of Posting I did post some things to the UK and they
got returned for some myseriour reasons. If the person who wanted my
version of "the silver man" is still out there, and still wants the
material. Then said person should mail me. I should stop babbling, I
might start coming to conclusion that there is connection between UFOs
and female bodybuilding/weightlifting. After all the VENUS swimsuit
company was going to hire one for some mysterious purpose or another.
It might be the postive influence of entities from Xanax the Peaceful
Planet! I would love to know the name of the novel with that in it,
which >pre-existed< the phramaceuetical. Thaks for letting me have a
little fun here...It is worth it.



                Be Seeing You,
                Sends Steve



Reply to: [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!csd4.csd.uwm.edu!angus
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Michael Vebber)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Abducted while driving?
Keywords: drugs
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Apr 92 03:34:09 GMT
References: <l-bjm0=[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee
Lines: 20

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (David Carter) writes:
>I was abducted while skiing, and when I "came to" I was inexpilcably
>soaking in a hot tub back at the lodge with my underwear on my head.
>Eerie.
>
>David Carter           : URANUS: not truly a place
>aka Hideo Gump         : where the Sun don't shine,
>Dallas, Texas USA      : but certainly a place where
>[e-mail] : the Sun shines dimly!
>
>

Dude, get real.

- AY
--

|  [e-mail]    | University of Wisconsin Milwaukee      |
|----------------------------|----------------------------------------|
| "If the answer is Jerry Brown, then it is a awfully silly question. |
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!munnari.oz.au!cs.mu.OZ.AU!munta.cs.mu.OZ.AU!curmi
From: [e-mail] (Jamie Paul CURMI)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Pleiadians and Greys....
Summary: Pleiadians and Greys....
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Apr 92 03:38:04 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Computer Science, University of Melbourne, Australia
Lines: 89

Hi!

Now look...I've been reading what people have been saying about these
two groups of beings....and I want to ask a few questions:

1) Do you spell Pleiadians like this?  I've seen about 5 different
   spellings so far.
2) Why do the Pleiadians all sound like Shirley Maclane(sic)?

3) How come the Greys keep stealing sexual organs and so forth from cows?
   Isn't it a case of 'seen one, you've seen 'em all'?

Now I really think the idea of the Greys stealing sexual organs so they can
do genetic experiments is a little on the daft side (though not quite as
daft as the whole idea that the US government knows all about it).  A more
likely explanation is that the Greys have discovered that cow udders and
bull goolies served steamed with a rice and a little parsely is quite yummy.
;-)

Hybrids?  I don't really see that, from a genetic point of view, a hybrid
human-grey is possible.  If they are insect-like, then I don't really follow
the argument.  And I can't really see why they'd bother....

So what I'm really trying to say is, why do so many of you believe these
stories?  I'm not trying to cause trouble here....I just want to know what
makes you all so sure that Greys and Pleiadians exist.

Now I don't know much about these stories.....only what i've picked up from
the newspapers and so on.  Instantly this is going to upset the believers
who will give me a good flaming for discussing something I know so
little about....but I figure it is better than not making any comment at
all.

Rather than just picking on you guys, I'm really just asking if you can try
and convince me that I am wrong.

ANYWAY..


PLEIADAINS
----------
The Pleiadians look just like us, but with Blonde hair...am I right?  Was it
Adamski who first described them as such (before Billy Meir(sic)).  I
thought it was discovered that his famous photos were actually just the top
his washing machine?

And Billy....didn't analysis of some of his photos show
what could be wires and so forth.....and they found a burnt negative on
his property showing a model of a spacecraft obviously on a table top.
I know he said that he or someone else made a model of what they saw, but
if thats what he saw, why didn't he take a photo of it (the camera is with
him everywhere else)

Doesn't all this make the whole Pleiadian story sound a little shakey?  Not
to mention the female Pleiadian he took photos of (the name was Semjaski or
something).  Looks remarkably like his girlfriend.

GREYS
-----
How come almost all reported aliens these days look like Greys, but
a few years back we used to also get hairy-creatures, creatures with big
noses, robots, angels, duck feat, suction cupped hands and so on.
 All of a sudden, that guy who wrote
communion (Whitley Streiber or something) has influenced everyone into
seeing greys.

Now I would have been quite happy to except the idea of these greys....
atleast its more convincing than a group of blonde-human-like aliens who
sound like new-ageists.....and they don't look totally human.
But the hybrid stuff, and the human experiments etc,....it really does
sound like science-fiction.

If the greys are really there, then you guys who spread all this stuff
about the hybrids and so on are really making the whole concept less and
less plausible.

(And I really think that if the US government got the idea for the Stealth
bomber from aliens, they were ripped off.  Surely some new power source
for space travel would have been a better invention to get from them (after
all, they must be experts at such travel))

Well, if you can clear up these points with me...I would be most greatful.

Jamie
--
Jamie P. Curmi                   ([e-mail])
Department of Computer Science,
The University of Melbourne, Parkville, Victoria, Australia
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!mips!mips!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <n![e-mail]>
Date: 12 Apr 92 16:49:29 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 36
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5252 alt.conspiracy:14014 sci.skeptic:22620 alt.paranormal:4778

There was a letter very similar to this one that circulated in UFOlogy
circles about a dozen years ago. The author - I don't remember his
name - lived in New York City, and wrote a long and extremely
literate letter about how he was under surveillance by aliens. They
were watching him on the streets of New York, in the subways, and
disturbing his life in various ways. He was claiming that evidence
of this alien onslaught was all around us, but we failed to
recognize it. What was remarkable about this author
was his undeniable literary ability. One proof he gave of this
supposed alien conspiracy against us concerned the aliens' supposed
scheming to undermine the manhood of earth males. This was recently
after the assassination in San Francisco of Harvey Milk, the first
openly homosexual member of the City Council there, and the author
of the letter pointed triumphantly to the letters printed on
every carton of milk: "HOMO MILK". He argued that the aliens
were behind this, and I don't doubt that he believed it.

This letter went out to all of the major UFO groups such as APRO,
CUFOS, MUFON, etc., and to a number of well-known individual
researchers including Allan Hendry and Philip J. Klass. The year
must have been 1979, or possibly early 1980. I thought I retained
a copy of this letter, but I am unable to locate it. If anyone
has seen this letter, or has a copy of it, please contact me.

--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

     "In the 1970's the world will undergo famines - hundreds of millions
     of people are going to starve to death in spite of any crash programs
     embarked upon now ... in 1985, when it is calculated [under the most
     optimistic scenario] that the major die-back will be over, ..."

                       Dr. Paul Ehrlich, "The Population Bomb," 1968
Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!mips!mips!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <r![e-mail]>
Date: 12 Apr 92 16:52:17 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 36
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5253 alt.conspiracy:14015 sci.skeptic:22621 alt.paranormal:4779

There was a letter very similar to this one that circulated in UFOlogy
circles about a dozen years ago. The author - I don't remember his
name - lived in New York City, and wrote a long and extremely
literate letter about how he was under surveillance by aliens. They
were watching him on the streets of New York, in the subways, and
disturbing his life in various ways. He was claiming that evidence
of this alien onslaught was all around us, but we failed to
recognize it. What was remarkable about this author
was his undeniable literary ability. One proof he gave of this
supposed alien conspiracy against us concerned the aliens' supposed
scheming to undermine the manhood of earth males. This was recently
after the assassination in San Francisco of Harvey Milk, the first
openly homosexual member of the City Council there, and the author
of the letter pointed triumphantly to the letters printed on
every carton of milk: "HOMO MILK". He argued that the aliens
were behind this, and I don't doubt that he believed it.

This letter went out to all of the major UFO groups such as APRO,
CUFOS, MUFON, etc., and to a number of well-known individual
researchers including Allan Hendry and Philip J. Klass. The year
must have been 1979, or possibly early 1980. I thought I retained
a copy of this letter, but I am unable to locate it. If anyone
has seen this letter, or has a copy of it, please contact me.

--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

     "In the 1970's the world will undergo famines - hundreds of millions
     of people are going to starve to death in spite of any crash programs
     embarked upon now ... in 1985, when it is calculated [under the most
     optimistic scenario] that the major die-back will be over, ..."

                       Dr. Paul Ehrlich, "The Population Bomb," 1968
Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!metro!seagoon.newcastle.edu.au!cc.newcastle.edu.au!ccasm
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Apr 92 06:38:26 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Lines: 31







            B E R T          &          E A R N I E


                used to do this on Sesamie Street




















  except it was  FUNNY !
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Ufo Magazine.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Apr 92 05:27:00 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO
Lines: 24


 > Can I get the address for UFO Magazine?  I had it awhile back, but it's
 > been
 > misplaced somewhere.  Also, can someone type out the table of contents
 > for a
 > recent UFO Magazine?  I want to see what types of articles are in it.

The address is:

UFO Magazine
P.O. Box 1053
Sunland, CA  91041-1053

I will place something here about the upcoming issue.

Also, Don Ecker, the Research Director for UFO Magazine is a participant in
this conference.

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Ufo Magazine Vol.7 #3
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Apr 92 05:32:00 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO
Lines: 42


 * Forwarded from "Ask UFO Magazine"
 * Originally from Don Ecker
 * Originally dated 04-06-92 22:50

The new issue of UFO Magazine was just sent to press this date. Vol. 7 #3
promises to be a very big and very controversial issue.

The Whistleblowers: The Mel Noel Story. That guy featured in Tim Good's book
"Above Top Secret" and on the Fox TV UFO Sightings: Part I. What is the real
story? Well gang, here it is.

New News from the Commonwealth of Nations; the old USSR. Paul Stonehill brings
us news from Russia and UFOs that are interested in Russian Nuclear Sites.

Puerto Rico is still a "UFO" Hotbed. Greg Bishop brings news from Puerto Rico
on its ongoing UFO "flap", close encounters, etc.

The Forum; Vicki Cooper answers critics on her stance on the Gulf Breeze
photos.

CONSPIRACY: Part I The opening of a special two part section: an intro to the
vast array of conspiracy theories currently surrounding the UFO field.

JFK Reappraised; The assassination conspiracy in Stones movie may be closer to
the truth than many would believe, and more akin to the UFO mystery than you
might believe. See what Col. Fletcher Prouty has to say.

New SDI Stuff; What did the Pentagon have to say to UFO about Star Wars?

Plus Dave Jacobs new book, reviews on new videos, and a WHOLE LOT MORE.......

see ya there.....

Best;

Don

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Near Washington Nj
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Apr 92 05:29:00 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO
Lines: 22


 > Has anyone had any sort of unusual encounters anywhere near
 > Washington, NJ, specifically on Montana Mountain?  I have
 > seen a few unusual sights which I cannot explain.  I don't
 > want to elaborate at this time, so as not to color anyone's
 > responses, but in general what I saw was light I could not
 > explain and a strange absence of sound which I could not
 > explain.  If anyone is interested I will elaborate more at
 > a later time, so you all can try to prove it was something
 > easily explainable.  If you are serious and saw something
 > there, please let me know at [e-mail]. or in
 > this newsgroup.  Thanks       Heather Schwabe

I would encourage you to netmail me at [e-mail].  I would like to
hear more about it, particularly if it was of unusual shape.

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!math.fu-berlin.de!Germany.EU.net!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo
From: [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFO ftp sites
Keywords: ftp
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Apr 92 11:27:12 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System
Lines: 25

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Vinod V Valloppillil) writes:


>    Does anyone have a list of ftp sites that contain ufo/alien/conspiracy
>material?  I'm pretty sure that a list of the type exists and if it doesn't,
>then it should.  My contribution is ns-mx.uiowa.edu.

Hi,

the UFO-material FTP-server is phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17)

Look in /pub/ufo_and_space_pics  or /pub/incoming   !

Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for
Decentral Energy Research
email to: [e-mail]


--

*******************************************************************************
*  Stefan Hartmann       This is how to contact me:                           *
*  EMAIL: [e-mail]                                            *
*  Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66      FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79                   *
*******************************************************************************
Path: ns-mx!uunet!math.fu-berlin.de!Germany.EU.net!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo
From: [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Pleiadians and Greys....
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Apr 92 11:34:52 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System
Lines: 21

Hi,

is one of the GREYs the dead alien body shown in the picture alien.gif
at the UFO-pic-FTP-site at phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17) ???

Do You know more about ???

P.S.: directory /pub/ufo_and_space_pics

Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for
Decentral Energy Research
email to: [e-mail]


--

*******************************************************************************
*  Stefan Hartmann       This is how to contact me:                           *
*  EMAIL: [e-mail]                                            *
*  Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66      FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79                   *
*******************************************************************************
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!uunet!mcsun!uknet!glasgow!ullaha
From: [e-mail] (friend)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Mach6 spy plane
Keywords: spy ufo plane
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Apr 92 15:31:14 GMT
Organization: Glasgow University Computing Science Dept.
Lines: 9

Reading the 'Sunday Mail' - came across an article-
a stealth spy plane reportedly operating out of a remote Scottish
US air base. The plane had reportedly been tracked at mach 3 ( some-
stealth) and reportedly capable of mach 6.
It apparently land upside down - to shield it radar reflective surface.
The town that it operates near is called (pprox) Machirainish.

Locals reported a ufo-
It looks like an oval flat disc apparently (hmm)
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!csn!scicom!paranet!f816.n107.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Clark.Matthews
From: [e-mail] (Clark Matthews)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: UFO meeting in Berlin
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Apr 92 10:58:00 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:107/816 - The Wrong Num, Jersey City NJ
Lines: 37

Hallo, Andre!  Greetings from New York!

 > International UFO congress in Berlin (Germany)

 > KIK - communication in the universe, congress & exhibition
 > 16.-20.4.92 in Berlin

 > A international UFO-congress take place at April 16.-20. in
 > Berlin.

Gratulieren und glueck auf mit dieser Konferenz!  Aber ich habe einige Frage ueber Virgil Armstrong.

[Kudos on the Conference -- But I've got some questions re: Virgil Armstrong]

 > Speakers:

 > Virgil Armstrong,   USA,    Sponsor, as secret service
 >                             officer he works
 >                             on the recovery of the first
 >                             UFO, found 1948 in
 >                             the USA.

Meiner Erinnerung nach, war Armstrong Astronaut in der fruehern Tagen des US Space Program.  Ich habe nichts von seiner Roswell-Aktivitaeten gehoert.  Sind Sie sicher, dass diesen Mann gutglaeubig ist?  Entw. echt Astronaut od. echt Roswellzeuge?

Sei vorsichtig, mein Freund -- die Betrueger und die Disinformers (Unberichtstattern???  Die Wortschatz hilft nicht...) kommen von allen Seiten.

[To our American listeners -- I'm wondering if *anyone* has heard of Virgil Armstrong's involvement in the Roswell case?  I've never heard of this guy.  Could it be a *different* Virgil Armstrong?  Or could this possibly refer to Gerald Anderson -- who was only 8 or 9 at the time and certainly was not an Army-Intelligence man?  I'm wondering just exactly who our German friends have speaking at their conference...]

Andre, ich habe deine Konferenz-notiz ins INFO.PARANET sitzt. Glueck auf!

Best,
  Clark

--
Clark Matthews - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!csn!scicom!paranet!f10.n2403.z2.FIDONET.ORG!Andre.Eichner
From: [e-mail] (Andre Eichner)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: me too
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Apr 92 15:34:00 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 2:2403/10 - FidoNet Berli, Berlin 41
Lines: 27

Hello JEAN-FRANCOIS!

Saturday April 04 1992, JEAN-FRANCOIS HEON writes to All:

 JH> From: [e-mail] (JEAN-FRANCOIS HEON)
 JH> Date: 3 Apr 92 18:21:27 GMT
 JH> Organization: Universite de Sherbrooke, Quebec
 JH> Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
 JH> Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors

 JH>         Hi, my name is 12-A-44B.  Im an Alien living here since 1942.  I
 JH> came from the planet Zanazaka, and I have a special mission... The Devil
 JH> does not exist as we imagine him;  In reality, The Devil is a system
 JH> administrator. And the goal of my intergalactical trip is to find that
 JH> sysadmin and then eradicate his name from all the hard disks in the
 JH> universe.
 JH>         And when this day will be, the world will be saved.

I see ... more and more twits are writing in this area... it's a pitty for this echo.

cheers
   Andre

--
Andre Eichner - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!csn!scicom!paranet!f10.n2403.z2.FIDONET.ORG!Andre.Eichner
From: [e-mail] (Andre Eichner)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: UFO meeting in Berlin
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 7 Apr 92 15:37:00 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 2:2403/10 - FidoNet Berli, Berlin 41
Lines: 50

International UFO congress in Berlin (Germany)

KIK - communication in the universe, congress & exhibition 16.-20.4.92 in Berlin

A international UFO-congress take place at April 16.-20. in Berlin.

Speakers:

Virgil Armstrong,   USA,    Sponsor, as secret service officer he works
                            on the recovery of the first UFO, found 1948 in
                            the USA.
Fred Bell,          USA     Scientist, works with pyramid-energy and is
                            in contect with the aliens and makes music
Valerij Nagibin,    GUS     psychologist, medical doctor, UFO-research
                            scientist and para-psychologist.
Anthony Dodd,       UK      ex Sergeant of UK police.
                            employee of UFO-journal QUEST
                            investigate the crop circles in UK
Prof. J. J. Hurtak  USA     futurology, director of "future Science" institute
Dr. Edith Fiore     USA     psychologist, works with persons which was
                            captured through aliens.
Douglas Pue,        USA     Ex NASA-employee, is informed about contacts
                            between aliens and the US Gouvernment.
JULIE RAVEL         BRD     Channel und spiritual head of the Licht-Oase
                            Berlin, arranges newest information from the
                            "Ashtar Command".
MICKY REMANN,               New Age writer and expert for unusual
                            spirital occurrence.

and many more.

besides become a lot NewAge technical news in a exhibition/fair.

for more information and registration call

If you place a call, please inform about the source "FidoNet/ParaNet-Berlin"!

International cultural centre
"UFA-Fabrik Berlin" : [phone]
           Fax......: [phone]


cheers
   Andre
call FidoNet-Berlin at ++49-30-7919269  (HST/V32bis, 3 Lines)

--
Andre Eichner - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!rutgers!ub!dsinc!pitt.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!seawasp
From: [e-mail] (Ryk E Spoor)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Mach6 spy plane
Keywords: spy ufo plane
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Apr 92 17:39:48 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Pittsburgh
Lines: 38

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (friend) writes:
>Reading the 'Sunday Mail' - came across an article-
>a stealth spy plane reportedly operating out of a remote Scottish
>US air base. The plane had reportedly been tracked at mach 3 ( some-
>stealth) and reportedly capable of mach 6.
>It apparently land upside down - to shield it radar reflective surface.
>The town that it operates near is called (pprox) Machirainish.

    Well... Despite the fact that it is retired from normal service,
the SR-71 Blackbird is easily capable of doing over Mach 3, and no one
has ANY idea, really, what its maximum speed is -- that is classified
and, to quote the designer (talking about the fact that the Blackbird
has held the record for airspeed for years) "We're just waiting for
the Russians [or someone] to break the record so we can take her out
of the hangar and show 'em what it'll REALLY do!"
    It is also the first plane to exhibit such a tiny radar profile
that it COULD qualify as a stealth craft (a sort of proto-stealth).
(It is also, in my opinion, the most beautiful aircraft ever made, a
streamlined work of art).

    So the speeds quoted could fit a Blackbird, or a modified version
thereof, or some newer craft. However, I don't think there *IS* any other
aircraft on earth that can go that fast.

                                 Sea Wasp
                                   /^\
                                   ;;;


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
.        ..               .             .        *           .      .
 .     .      :      .        _*_    .        .          .             ..
.   .     .   .      @---====OOOOO====---@~/^\    .     .       .       .
   .   *     .     ..         ^*^  .    .  ;;;      .      .      .   *
 :    .     .    .        .      .            .*         .     .        .
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Interphase Accomplished.
Sea Wasp docked, Outring Sector 5.
Path: ns-mx!umaxc.weeg.uiowa.edu
From: [e-mail] (Raven Roshi)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy
Subject: PLANETCOM UPDATE
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Apr 92 20:40:47 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: U of Iowa, Iowa City, IA
Lines: 431
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5265 alt.conspiracy:14038


(Posted with permission by author.)

                  Concerning "Revelations"
                   author-Jacques Vallee

                      January 15, 1992
Dear Jacques,
     Far from a "revelation", as answer to either
Harbinson's "Genesis", or the Bible's, (the [aliens] sons of
God took the daughters of men for wives, Gen 6:6), your book
is expertly written but shows your tremendous bias by
omission. You have lightly tapped some of the "intelligence
operatives" in the UFO field smartly on the wrist with your
iron ruler, or was it an iron cross? Gave Bill Cooper's four
year old viewpoints instead of his current rethought
position. Wrote three pages separated by many pages about
the mechanical side of the flying object scenario possibly
having been produced here on earth by earthlings. Lip
service to assuage the uninformed. Sure, there are
extraterrestrials with bodies, and they must have craft in
which to travel. There are also other-dimensional bodiless
beings who need no craft to travel in. You are probably like
most folks and say that unless you saw a bodiless being you
wouldn't think it possible. In order to "see" a bodiless
being, one must go within and withdraw one's attention from
the exterior world of the senses.
     Come on, Jacques, double think, triple think and get to
the bottom of things. Otherwise you are no better at this
gig than any other decent writer who needs money, and
applies themselves to definitely "one-sided" revelations.
     1947 brought the passage of the National Security Act,
the start of the Nazi germinated CIA and NSA. The influx of
at least a hundred Nazi scientists, engineers, etc., into
the United States and Canada. A Nazi aeronautical engineer,
a certain Herr Miethe, who had designed four different types
of saucer shaped craft by 1943 using either rocket power or
donut configuration jet turbine engines (rather than
cylindrical), with the cabin stabilized by gyro, the
compressors rotating in one direction and the expansion
chambers and vectored exhausts rotating in the opposite
direction, was traced to Canada in 1947 and began work for
the A. V. Roe company (Avroe disk). The phony AVROE "aircar"
was definitely to disinform the press as to the real
projects underway underground in Canada.
     The eight mile long train that went out of Austria in
1945 (672 train cars!), to the coast of Brittany, the
contents loaded on board ships, eventually ending up
underground in Southwestern Canada. At the same time over
100 prefab factory buildings were shipped from England to
British Columbia. Get your "remote viewing" friend to scope
the spot for you. Anybody could find it, even at this late
date. A complete underground construction and flight testing
facility in British Columbia. The 1947 first "sighting" of a
flight of "saucers", Kenneth Arnold, etc., etc., right over
the border from the underground base in British Columbia.
The base was decommisioned in about 1952 when we (the
Americans) traded the H-bomb technology for all the improved
German hardware, and the scientists and technicians to go
with it.
     The first flights of these "captured disks" by remote
or on board pilots unfamiliar with their controls led to the
early crashes in Roswell and elsewhere. The disks were
captured from "aliens" (Nazis), and there were definitely
"alien bodies" at the crash sites, (Canadian).
     A special group was formed to keep this technology and
in effect all the most advanced forms of technologies
separate from the general course of science. This group has
powers above the executive branch. Who knows what it's
called? By the way, the Nazis had everything before any
other country, they had radar in 1933 they had infra-red
sensors, heavy water, etc., etc. We have been told lie after
lie in terms of who invented these things. If anyone in the
world had access to "alien" technology it was the master
race "Aryans" (Nazis). Their metallurgy and casting were
flawed or they would have conquered the world. As you
probably know, many expatriot Nazis were given carte
blanche, new I.D's., and were included in startup of more
than several departments of the CIA in 1947. Departments
including "genetics and cloning" (with some of the same
"doctors" who had given death camp residents gangrene,
etc.), "designer drugs and mind control" using the same
scientists who had designed Methadone and Methedrine for
Hitler's maniacal efforts. In 1952, a public stir caused the
CIA to shuffle these fab fellows out of town. My guess is to
the various underground centers that were being built.
     There's two reasons why you don't reveal things about
the characters in your book, either you don't know, or you
are protecting certain agendas.
     Linda Howe is a nice person, most certainly in on the
deception or so naive as to be pathetic. The technology for
hand held lasers driven by power supplies that only weigh
200 pounds has existed for twenty years or more. DARPA
builds them and they have all the necessary capabilities she
is overawed with.
     The reason for all the testing of animal systems from
stem to stern, reproductive systems and other organs by us,
is that 85% of the current underground nuclear testing and
100% of the above ground testing in the past at the Nevada
Test Site, has vented radioactivity into the atmosphere. The
radiation travels downwind offsite, and for the last 47
years has affected and continues to affect the terrain and
the animals with measureable radioactivity in the various
systems. It's only natural for those who think they are in
control to try to measure the quantitative damage they have
inflicted and keep inflicting on the earth and its
inhabitants and to KEEP THE RESULTS SECRET. These days the
largest rug that you can sweep secrets under is the "alien"
flying carpet! It interested me to see your specious formula
equating the number of landings, number of sightings, and
number of close encounters, into a formula for the amount of
landings that would have occurred unseen by humans if your
theory would have held mud. The problem, according to my
information, is that "sightings" and "close encounters" of
"aliens" by humans have always been staged, and for a most
important reason. It's estimated that 1% of the population
believes the crap about little-big-heads making a deal with
our government in the 50's, if they can get 5% of the
population to "believe", they can run the scam and everybody
will fall into line.
     Lazar probably works for NSA and was running a game
typical of the Russian G.R.U. on the scientists from Los
Alamos where the "Honeysuckle Parlor" was, compromising them
via videotape, then trying to decompartmentalize them. He
did the same for the personnel he came into contact with at
the test site in Nevada, he would recommend them to his
bugged whore house in Vegas to be taped and compromised.
Then there was the Lazar show on KLAS and George Knapp and
Gene Huff (Lazar's "clean-up man" like Nancy Davis Reagan
was the "clean-up person for Ronnie), John Grace (the
infamous Valdomar Valerian of "The Matrix" papers and head
of Nevada Aerial Research Group), John Lear and all the
other interested parties now have a list of "test site
employees" and others who called and wrote in, telling about
seeing "things" at the test site. The operation was mainly
to expose leaks in security at the test site.
     The reason Lazar was at either location was to pick up
exposed film taken of particle collisions (at Los Alamos) or
particle beam interactions (taken at the test site Nevada)
and develop it and return it poste haste to its point of
origin. He had a top secret clearance for this. With such a
clearance, he was a valuable asset to the small super secret
group spoken about previously. He was keeping track of which
scientists were working on what. Lazar doesn't violate the
tenets of his security oath. None of these shuck artists do.
If he were to talk about the particles and paths he saw on
the film he used to develop, they would put him away in
solitude. He is not a physicist and never was.
     I have talked to Paul Bennewitz at length, several
times. On his behalf, you only tell people how they drove
him nuts, not why. I ask myself why would you leave out the
reason that they sent him reeling? To fill you in, because
you obviously took Linda Howe's and Tracy's opinion rather
than questioning Paul directly; he's a pilot, he flew over
the Dulce area numerous times on his way between Albuquerque
and Denver. He took many pictures of the construction going
on, and according to Paul, he also took pictures of circular
craft on the ground at this site which, as late as 1973,
according to him, had large hangar doors much the same as
Lazar's second hand explanation about the doors at S-4. (All
the stuff from area 51 and "S-4" having to do with inertial
mass cancellation has been moved to an area near St. George,
Utah). The most revealing photos and their negatives
disappeared in about 1975 when various "fringe UFO experts"
visited Paul. Also, his house was burglarized and ransacked
more than once. In later years Moore, Shandera, and Torme
made a meaningless tour of Dulce and then went on to
Albuquerque (the real reason for their travels) to see if
there was any more evidence of serious consequence still in
Paul's possession that they could grab, and sure enough, he
was missing some more photos when they left his house. If
you had even talked to Bennewitz, you would have gotten a
lot closer to having a "revelation". But by listening to
what Linda Howe has to say about Bennewitz, you might as
well call your book, "Hearsay". By the way, you could have
your "remote viewer" look at the Dulce area and easily show
you some entrance points. The "waste" from the underground
bio-genetic lab (no aliens involved, although that is where
we humans produce the short lived, big-eyed, big headed
imitation "aliens") comes out in the river canyon about ten
miles below Navajo Dam. Although these days they "treat" it
a lot more before letting their "grey" water back into the
environment. This base and others are of course connected by
tunnels to Los Alamos. The Archuleta Mesa installation
rivals Pine Gap at Alice Springs, Australia for security,
etc. Every U.S. Air Force base has a so-called "bolt-hole"
and is connected to the bolt-hole by tunnel.
     Another source was in the area of the Archuleta Mesa in
1972. At that time a narrow gauge railway spur still existed
that went down from Durango, CO, through Dulce, N.M. through
Chama, N.M., and ended several miles later where it used to
connect to a straight line narrow gauge track that had gone
all the way from Albuquerque to Denver (part of the original
Durango-Silverton Line). This person noted a tremendous
amount of materiel being unloaded at a crossing of this
narrow gauge railway and the dirt road he was travelling on.
A bunch of workers were unloading flat cars full of cement,
pipe, etc, onto flatbed trucks that then disappeared down
the dirt road toward the Jicarillo Indian Reservation, he
took pictures because he was interested in the antique
railcars, etc. There were no accomodations in the area at
that time so he made his way up to Durango to stay the night
before going on with his travels. He was "tailed" all the
way to Durango to the motel parking lot by a "military type"
wearing civilian clothes, in an open civilian type jeep.
That evening he went to the bar to have a few drinks, was
picked up by a good looking woman who went with him to his
room, in the morning, she was gone and so was all his film,
not just the film in the camera! I have had several
occasions in my research to note that women are often used
to garner someone's trust. I call these women "military
millies", in honor of the one I personally came into contact
with who called herself "Milly". Pretty Army and Air Force
brats are mind-controlled at an early age and taught to gain
information from their subjects with the use of sex.
     A group of 21 people led by an individual we will call
Rick, went to area 51 in 1989 in a small bus to watch
"saucers". They were stopped on "mail-box road" by two
individuals carrying automatic weapons and wearing
camouflage togs. One individual popped a can of "gas" in the
aisle of the bus, and that's all they all remembered for
three hours. When they came to their senses, they cut their
trip short, returned to L.A. and five persons got separately
regressed using hypnotic regressers that did not know one
another, and found that during the lost time their memories
had repressed similar events. They had been marched off the
bus, taken in jeeps to a building nearby, and had their
lives threatened by military personnel. No "aliens"
whatsoever.
     In the U.S., the group that runs the "alien abduction
scam" can only use some of the hardiest of these short lived
bio-genetic bad luck stories. Short lived because they have
no digestive tract and can survive only about two weeks
maximum after they are removed from the growing matrix, then
they deteriorate and die. They have no "soul" and are not
considered "sentient beings" by Tibetan Buddhists.
     The French are obviously not as skilled as the U.S. in
fabricating biological entities, and so weren't able to
expose poor unfortunate Franck Fontaine to any phony aliens.
Instead, only keeping him in and out of the "twilight zone"
in their "clean room" wherever that was. They used a
haloperidol-like substance in the fog that surrounded his
car.
     Edith Fiore is a new arrival in the huckster
professional wrestling world of UFO experts. She claims to
be a clinical psychologist. ALL of her female patients who
"remember" with help, their "abduction" experience, remember
a long steel surgical needle being used to take eggs from
their ovaries. The same kind of long steel surgical needle
that WE USE to take eggs from female ovaries. If these
little greys are thousands of years in advance of us as the
liars would have us believe, why are they limited to using
model "T" technology to get our women's eggs? Gimme a break!
The reason the needle is remembered is because it is
painful, temporarily breaking the hold of the drug induced
mind control. Some of these women also remember a human in
the room at that time.
     Bud Hopkins is definitely an intelligence agent from
hell, slavering over the females he has attracted to his
franchised "abduction workshops", where all the females are
"supported" by other females who have had "the same
experience". One of the "details" that Bud harps on that he
hasn't published and that he retains "secret" as a test for
authenticity when he interviews new applicant "abductees" is
the "long steel surgical needle". If you remember the needle
you are authentic in Bud's cosmology. Thanks to Bud Hopkins'
franchise, female "abductees" can look in any phone book
yellow pages and find an "abduction support group".
     Whitley Streiber wrote "B" quality horror novels before
he got seriously mind-controlled at the Monroe Institute.
Then he started talking about little "somethings" messing
around with him in between sleep and wakefulness.
     Monroe has 5 permanent resident CIA astral travelers
who do nothing but "help" people to "understand" their
"travels" in group sessions after the fact. Bob Monroe says
that his "people", go into the astral world and everything
becomes foggy, so one wouldn't know if one was astralling in
San Francisco or London. I am a remote viewer and conscious
dreamer, and I know that information to be spurious. The
place that he and his people are going is "limbo land". The
places which I set myself to view or travel to, I actually
see or visit. No fog involved. Proof is in the pudding.
     Haldol is used to "treat" multiple personality
disorder. The inverse is also true, multiple personalities
can be "created" and screened from one another with the use
of Haldol. To become even more complex for the sake of
current discussion, one "personality" would remember an
abduction experience, and would be given dominance over any
other "personality" by the individual's "handler".
     The drug haloperidol-generic (Haldol-trade name), when
given in slight overdose causes a three hour lost time/lost
memory experience. Six American psychiatrists so far are
under indictment for taking advantage of their female
patients using this drug in overdose. Their mistake? They
didn't "mask" the "lost time" with a "memory" of some sort,
and so the women, after a short while, became suspicious and
went to different psychiatrists, got hypnotized to find
themselves remembering the exact events. To the indicted
psychiatrists' liking, one can have a person slightly
overdosed on haloperidol do anything physically possible and
not remember a thing for awhile! Whereas if you mask the
lost time with a "unique memory" the person will tend to
cling to that "memory", or repress that "memory" (to the
detriment of remembering the truth) for a longer time. If
the person joins a support group that periodically refreshes
the "memory", it will maintain long into the person's
future.
     The army's mind control unit must take well deserved
credit for the veterans who seemingly go suddenly crazy,
killing many people and then themselves. The most recent
event in Killeen, Texas was planned for the day BEFORE a
Congressional vote on gun control, hoping to influence
Congress with yet another mass automatic killing. Handlers
(psychiatrists) at each perpetrator's local Veterans
Hospital are involved in each and every case of these mass
killings/suicides. Prozac is also involved with each case
having been prescribed by the aforementioned "handlers" in
each and every case. The fellow in Canada who killed 12
women at a women's college, the fellow in the Stockton,
California schoolyard, etc., etc.
     Try reading the "Global 2000 Report", and the 1959
study by the Club of Rome, I could send you a copy of
"Stopping the Coming Ice Age" videotape, this in order to
gain an overview of what is really going on. "They" know
that the weather is changing permanently for the next
100,000 years, going back to an ice age. It has done this 17
times in the last 1.8 million years. Global warming is a lie
like so many other lies that we have been told in order for
them to insinuate that we have 50 years in which to change
our habits. These jerks tell us these lies in order to
maintain power, mine the last of the ore, suck the last of
the oil, sell us the last drop of gasoline and then tell us
that they were mistaken; when it's far too late for most of
us to grow food. They say that they do these heinous crimes
in the name of human survival. The only survival they work
for is their own. They work out of fear. Less than half of
the world's arable land will still be able to support the
growth of food crops shortly, so the concensus is that half
of the world population must die by starving to death, AIDS
(germ warfare-Strecker Memorandum), or killing one another.
     In order to maintain a semblance of control during
infrastructure breakdown when people are killing each other
for food, they will fly the saucers and tell us we are
undergoing an alien invasion, please stop rioting, go to
your local post office and register, FEMA will take over and
it will be a "new world order". Fascist one world
government, Communism already lost according to plan and
despotic Fascism always wins because people are
complacent and refuse to get involved.
     Bush will feign serious illness in October, to throw
the election. He doesn't want to be in power when this place
falls apart, which will be by 1996.
     Six years worth of grain is missing from the nation's
grain silos. Secreted underground no doubt.
     There are about five major end time scenarios that you
should consider in order for you to come up to speed on the
totality and magnitude of the subterfuge.
     You could call my service and leave a neutral number
and time when you can be reached. 818-569-3072

cc. M. William Cooper, Vladimir Terziyski, Martin Cannon,
Paul Bennewitz, and a multitude of other "friends".
*********************************************************

                          Apology

                     February 22, 1992

Dear Jacques,
     This letter is being sent and given to all who received
or were given copies of the first letter that I wrote to you
entitled "Concerning Revelations, author Jacques Vallee".
     I hope you will accept my sincere apology for what I
spewed forth in a state of picque while thinking of it as
"creative license". I hope all the other individuals and
groups mentioned will also accept my heartfelt apology. I am
pretty sure that all of the people and groups I mentioned
believe in what they are doing, and believe they are doing
what is "right". I did not mean to stir up pain or suffering
in anyone's personal life, hurt people's feelings or
commerce by weaving these real people into imaginary and/or
outright false fabric.
     The first letter was written with specific tone,
certain style, using a few facts and a lot of embellishment.
The myriad results could not have been imagined and were
mostly obtained because the letter was written in that
manner and sent unsigned to all who received it.
     To those who still don't know who I am, my name appears
in Bill Cooper's book "Behold a Pale Horse", which I suggest
that everyone should purchase and read.
     It's all right for the major players to go underground
during a crisis, either "natural" or contrived. We need to
lose half the population of this place in order to save it
from total devastation. We need to preserve certain whole
aspects of our ordered civilization. It's all right that
unconventional means are used to get laws passed to take
armaments out of the hands of all the idiots. As we approach
certain debacle, the ends justify the means.
     After the occurrence of the last days scenario, there
will be two main types of surviving groups on the surface.
     1. Total imbeciles with plenty of paranoia, plenty of
guns, ammo, food, bigotry, racism, etc.
     2. Loving families of "light" hidden away in out of the
way places, living in harmony with this Earth and the
Cosmos.
     I have heard that you read the entire first letter. I
have gained valuable input from people that called my
answering service and left their numbers or various
messages. I think you must have sensed that the first letter
did not need your response, however, I would certainly
appreciate talking to you sometime.
     Needless to say, Planet Com is working on an
"apocryphal book" which contains information about this
epoch that has never been common knowledge. It will be
available in 3 months. Projected cost will be $15.00
     Anyone interested in subscribing to a newsletter which
Planet Com has available, please send $2.00 and request to
Planet Com [phone]  Box 33, Mountain Center, CA 92561
cc. Those of you who copied and distributed the first
letter, please make copies of this letter and do the same.
**********************************************************

If you have intentions of replying to this post, PLEASE do not send me
([e-mail]) email.  All replies (unless they are general
comments) should be sent DIRECTLY to PLANETCOM (phone and address included.)
I am not the one to answer questions, PLANETCOM _is_.

**********************************
Please distribute this!!!!!!!!!!!!
**********************************

Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!shark!glarson
From: [e-mail] (Greg Larson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Pleiadians and Greys....
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Apr 92 20:19:01 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet News Administration)
Organization: University of Minnesota CIS
Lines: 17
Nntp-Posting-Host: shark.micro.umn.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jamie Paul CURMI) writes:
>Hybrids?  I don't really see that, from a genetic point of view, a hybrid
>human-grey is possible.  If they are insect-like, then I don't really follow
>the argument.  And I can't really see why they'd bother....
>Jamie
>--
>Jamie P. Curmi                   ([e-mail])
>Department of Computer Science,
>The University of Melbourne, Parkville, Victoria, Australia
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree, it seems pretty far-fetched.  But try using your imagination a bit.
With a computer that understands both the alien and human genetics,
you may want to examine humans, see how their DNA relates to their physical
construction, and have the COMPUTER do the "mixing" for you.  The computer
could simulate the results without having to actually develop a tweaked
alien being.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!world!kibo
From: [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.religion.kibology
Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Apr 92 19:22:52 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: A room filled with typography (in Boston's Back Bay)
Lines: 47
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5267 alt.religion.kibology:1615

[alt.alien.visitors]
In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
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>            B E R T          &          E A R N I E
>
>
>                used to do this on Sesamie Street
>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  except it was  FUNNY !
>
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>
>
>


How odd.  I don't recall B E R T and E A R N I E posting articles that
are 99% whitespace on "Sesamie Street".

Was E A R N I E the one who was wrongly charged with arson when Big Bird's
cigarette ignited his nest when he fell asleep?  Or was E A R N I E the
one with the scar?
                                -- K.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!bonnie.concordia.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!draco!orion!stimpsn
From: [e-mail] (Gary Stimpson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Pleiadians and Greys....
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Apr 92 20:31:41 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (BBS Account)
Organization: The Orion Unix System [A/UX 2.0.1], Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Lines: 41

** On a lighter side **

[e-mail] (Jamie Paul CURMI) writes:

> Hi!
>
> Now look...I've been reading what people have been saying about these
> two groups of beings....and I want to ask a few questions:
>
> 1) Do you spell Pleiadians like this?  I've seen about 5 different
>    spellings so far.

I spell it Plooiadians.  I like it that way.

> 2) Why do the Pleiadians all sound like Shirley Maclane(sic)?

Because they are fake.

> 3) How come the Greys keep stealing sexual organs and so forth from cows?
>    Isn't it a case of 'seen one, you've seen 'em all'?

Sick sense of humor?

> So what I'm really trying to say is, why do so many of you believe these
> stories?  I'm not trying to cause trouble here....I just want to know what
> makes you all so sure that Greys and Pleiadians exist.

I believe SOME type of entities exist, but when people get their information
from telepathy and all that new age stuff, I just don't believe it.  YES,
they are contacting SOMETHING, but the SOMETHING is not telling the truth.

> Jamie
> --
> Jamie P. Curmi                   ([e-mail])
> Department of Computer Science,
> The University of Melbourne, Parkville, Victoria, Australia
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

--
[e-mail] (Gary Stimpson)
The Orion Unix System [A/UX 2.0.1], Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!sun4nl!sara5!hasara11!a410jacq
From: [e-mail] (Jacqueline Cote)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Pleiades Needs Telescopes! (Re: The Pleiadians: Awakening)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Apr 92 03:44:42 GMT
References: <[e-mail]><[e-mail]><[e-mail]>
Organization: SARA - Stichting Academisch Rekencentrum Amsterdam
Lines: 17

Yes , indeed the star CLUSTER The Pleiades has many, many stars. That's
why it's called a star cluster, you see :-). BTW would those people
who chat to these Pleiades persons please ask them what makes a Be star
tick (many of the B-type stars in the Pleiades, which is a YOUNG
cluster BTW, are of that type)? Knowing what makes them tick would
greatly advance my thesis on these beasties!

Thank you!

And Oh, yes: which Zeta Reticulum star do these Greys come from?
Zeta 1 (HR 1006 G3-5V, V=5.54 at 10.6 pc = 33.6 ly) or Zeta 2 (HR 1010
G2V, V=5.24 at 11pc = 35.8 ly CPM with HR 1006)?

JC
________________________________________________________________________________
Jacqueline Cote'     | Astronomical Inst., Un. of Amsterdam
                     | Kruislaan 403, 1098 SJ Amsterdam, The Netherlands
A410JACQ@HASARA11    |   phone: [phone]  [phone] (home)
[e-mail] |   telex: 10262 hef nl     FAX: [phone]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!sei.cmu.edu!drycas.club.cc.cmu.edu!cantaloupe.srv.cs.cmu.edu!crabapple.srv.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!aw2s+
From: [e-mail] (Andrew Todd Weinstein)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: UFO CONSPIRACY
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Apr 92 03:24:42 GMT
Organization: Freshman, Math/Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 1336


I retrieved this very interesting document from an ftp:
quartz.rutgers.edu
 or   128.6.60.6
in the /pub/scitech directory which contains other interesting documents
besides
this one. This file is ufo.conspiracy.Z (compressed)

Let me know what any of you think about this, about the authors
credebility, the credibility of the information, etc. because it has a
lot of interesting inform
ation, including a section that says that aliens created the four major
religions here on earth and showed us a hologram of the crucification of
Christ and alie
ns supposedly through hybridization or something, created Jesus Christ
according to this document.  I am sure that there is other information
in this document t
hat has much more credence than that, but I just mentioned that to get
you interested in reading the whole document and letting me know what
you think of it.

*** I did not write this information, I am merely putting this file on
this bboard since he said in the document, "Please make copies of this
file and send it to your congressman, your senator, the attorney general
of the United States, and the Supreme Court.  Send it also to everyone
you know." ***

*** Please don't reply to me abou this because I know nothing about this
information (I did read it, however).  I guess contact the author if you
have to, but not me or leave messages on the bboard because I mam
interested in what other people think of this document.  ***

Well, here it is:


                       The UFO Conspiracy




                          *



  *
 Information concerning the U.S. government's cover-up of alien
      activity on Earth, according to Milton William Cooper



                  Compiled by David E. Stewart
                    1301 W. 24th St. Apt. M20
                       Lawrence, KS  66046
                         1-913-749-5914


                       The UFO Conspiracy


                        Table of Contents



The Milton William Cooper Speech .............................. 3
Appendix A:  Operation Majority .............................. 16
Appendix B:  For More Information ............................ 23
Appendix C:  Musings ......................................... 25



     This document  was created  using Microsoft  Word 5.0  on  a
Tandy 1000TL  (IBM compatible)  computer.   The information  con-
tained herein  comes mostly  from the  alt.conspiracy section  of
Usenet, a  worldwide computer  messaging network accessed via the
University of  Kansas Digital Equipment Corporation VAX 8650 com-
puter system.   Other  information was obtained by the editor via
personal phone calls and other research.


                The Milton William Cooper Speech


Editor's note:   What follows is a transcript of a 45-minute lec-
ture given  by Milton William Cooper on November 17, 1989, at the
"Whole Life  Expo" in  Los Angeles,  Calif.  His speech was tran-
scribed word-for-word from a microcassette recording.

     "For those of you who don't know who I am, I was raised in a
military family.   My  family, my  ancestors, since  they came to
this country, have been government people.  We have served in the
military, we  have been patriots, we have fought in all the wars,
we care about this country and believe in the constitution of the
United States.  We know, as many people don't know, that the Con-
stitution of the United States of America is the United States of
America! And  that's why we've always been ready to do the things
needed to preserve and protect it.
     "When I  left home  I went into the Air Force, the Strategic
Air Command.  As a child I'd heard stories from my father and pi-
lots, other  pilots, my  father was  a pilot, about Foo Fighters,
UFOs, strange  craft that  were not made on this Earth.  And as a
kid, you  hear that  in passing,  and it's  neat, and  you giggle
about it, and you go out and play 'Space Man,' and you forget it.
     "When I  was in the Air Force I met men who had participated
in alien crashed-craft recoveries.  Now this intrigued me, it in-
terested me, but it was usually after quite a few bottles of beer
that these stories would come out, and sometimes the next morning
I couldn't remember what the heck the guy said.
     "When I left the Air Force I went into the Navy, and this is
where everything  began to  happen for  me.  I had originally in-
tended to  just go  from service to service and do something that
very few people have ever done before.  I was a very adventurous,
very crazy  ... young  man, and  I thought  that that  would be a
pretty exciting life.  I volunteered for submarines, and while on
the submarine  USS Tyroot, SS-416, on a transit between the Port-
land/Seattle area  and Pearl Harbor, which was our home port; the
Pearl Harbor sub base, as the port lookout I saw a craft, saucer-
shaped, the size of a Midway class carrier, aircraft carrier, for
those of  you who  don't know how big that is; it's huge, come up
out of  the water approximately two and a half nautical miles off
the port bow, which is about 45 degrees to the left of the pointy
end of  the submarine.   It  tumbled slowly  on its own axis, and
went up  into the  clouds.  It appeared to be moving slowly to me
at a distance of two and a half nautical miles, but in reality it
was moving pretty fast because it came up out of the water, did a
few tumbles, and it was gone!
     "I then  reported it  to the  officer of the deck.  I didn't
tell him  what it was that I saw because my Daddy didn't raise no
fools and in case nobody else saw it I didn't want to be the only
looney on  board the ship.  So I asked the officer of the deck to
help me cover that area, and he did, which is common for officers
and lookouts  to help  each other  while on  bridge watch because
they all  hang together  if something  bad happens.   After a few
seconds of  watching, the  same craft,  or another  craft exactly
like it,  came down  out of  the clouds, tumbled again on its own
axis, and  went into the water.  Ensign Ball, who was the officer
of the  deck, was  literally shocked!   What could I say?  Seaman
Dejeralimo, who  was the  starboard lookout,  had also  witnessed
this, and  Ensign Ball  called the  captain to the bridge who was
followed by  the chief  quartermaster who  brought a 35MM camera,
and we  watched for  between seven and 10 minutes the same craft,
or different craft that looked exactly alike, enter and leave the
water.   It was an incredible show.  I don't know if they knew we
were there,  or if  they even  cared, but the craft did not glow,
they were  metal, they  were machines  without a doubt, they were
obviously intelligently  guided, they  were huge, and having been
in the  Air Force  and the Navy and knowing what it takes, I knew
without a  doubt, and  know it  today, that  that machine was not
made on the face of this earth.  Because there's nothing that man
can make, that can fly through the air at a speed like that, tum-
ble on  its own axis, and enter the water and effectively fly be-
neath the sea.
     "If you've ever been aboard an airplane and then gone aboard
a submarine, I know there's probably some of you in this room who
have visited  a submarine at one time or another, you can readily
see just without even any of the technicalities involved how dif-
ficult such  a thing  would be  to do.   Where would it be built,
that size?  It was absolutely incredible.  It changed my life be-
cause then all the stories that I'd heard all my life I knew were
true, and I began seeing the world in a different light.
     "It wasn't  long after  that I was trained by Naval security
in intelligence.  I was sent to Vietnam.  I was assigned as a pa-
trol boat  captain, first in DaNang harbor, given a crew, given a
multi-million dollar  patrol boat.  My job was to gather intelli-
gence from the people who lived around the harbor and the fisher-
men who  transited the  harbor, and maintain the safety and secu-
rity of  the harbor  and the shipping.  After about five months I
was sent  up North  to the DMZ, to a place called Qua Vieaf [sp],
on the  Tacan [sp]  river.  Our base camp was at the river mouth.
We were only three miles south of the North Vietnamese border and
our job  was to  patrol the  Tacan river  from the river mouth to
Dang Ha  [sp], and  then up  the Quang  Tree [sp] cutoff to Quang
Tree city,  again to  get to  know the people on the bank, gather
intelligence, and  to patrol  every night and maintain the safety
and security of the river and the river traffic.
     "It was  while there  that I  discovered that  there  was  a
tremendous amount  of UFO  and alien activity in Vietnam.  It was
always reported  in official messages as 'enemy helicopters.' Now
any of  you who know anything about the Vietnam war know that the
North Vietnamese  did not  have any helicopters, especially after
our first  couple of  air raids into North Vietnam.  Even if they
had they would not have been so foolish as to bring them over the
DMZ because  that would  have insured  their demise.   Our troops
were fired  on occasionally  by these  'enemy helicopters,' enemy
troops were  fired on  occasionally by these 'enemy helicopters,'
and occasionally  people would  disappear.   And on  one instance
that I  know for sure at least one entire village disappeared one
night because  of alien  activity.  The reason they used the term
'enemy helicopters'  in messages and dispatches was that in Viet-
nam you  could be overrun at any time, no matter where you where.
They did  not bring  crypto encoding  equipment into Vietnam, I'm
talking about  the machinery.   What  we did is we had crypto ta-
bles, and  once we  every 24  hours those codes would be no good.
So that's what we used.  We also, because of the inability to use
crypto transmitting  equipment, had  to devise code words such as
'enemy helicopters.'
     "When I  left Vietnam I was eventually attached to the head-
quarters staff of the Commander in Chief of the United States Pa-
cific Fleet  at Macalappa,  [sp] Hawaii,  which is  a little hill
overlooking Pearl  Harbor, it's  a beautiful  white  building  up
there, and I was specifically attached to the Intelligence Brief-
ing Team  of the  Commander in Chief of the United States Pacific
Fleet.
     "It was  during this  tour of duty that, in the course of my
duties, documents  were placed in my hands that were so unbeliev-
able and so incredible that it took me quite a while to adjust to
the fact  that what  I was seeing was real.  Now for those of you
who don't  understand how  I could  come to see this information,
let me  give you  a little short course in security clearance and
the need to know and how you get to see classified information if
you're in  the military  or in  the government, it doesn't matter
which, the rules are the same.
     "No. 1,  you need  a security  clearance, and  you've got to
have clearance  at the level that the information you want to see
is classified  at.   In this  instance it was classified 'Top Se-
cret, Magic,  Restricted Information,'  which I  came to find out
later is  the highest  security classification in the Nation.  To
get that type of clearance, all you have to have is a Federal Bu-
reau of  Investigation background  check, which  takes about  six
months and  they send  federal agents  to your  home, to your old
schools, to  all your teachers, to your friends, to everybody you
put down  on your  security clearance  forms, to all your old ad-
dresses, your  neighbors, everybody  that you've  worked for, and
it's embarrassing  because they  don't  tell  them  what  they're
checking on.   They just show them their identification and start
asking questions  and that's  when you find out who's your friend
and who's  not, because  a lot  of people  get scared  and think,
'Bill just robbed a bank and I'm not talking to him anymore.'
     "Now once you get that it's called a 'B.I.' and for those of
you who  have received  a copy  of my  service record look on the
first page,  the DD-214  where it  says 'Security Clearance,' you
will see  the term  'B.I.' That's  a  'Bureau  of  Investigation'
clearance.   Now at that point, you have the clearance for every-
thing including  Top Secret  and above.  What determines what you
get to see is your need to know, and the job that you have deter-
mines what your need to know is.
     "I was  assigned to  the Intelligence  Briefing Team  of the
Commander in Chief of the United States Pacific Fleet, who had to
know everything  concerning his  area of operations which was one
half of the Earth's surface; the Indian ocean, the Pacific ocean,
and all  the land masses in between.  Believe it or not, if we go
to war,  if we  ever go  to war, it's the United States Navy that
strikes the  first blow  and attempts  to keep  the enemy  at bay
while we  can get ourselves together, at least historically.  Nu-
clear weapons have kind of done away with that concept, but mili-
tary commanders like to talk about it anyway.
     "Because of  this, and  you have no conception of the amount
of material  and information  that an area commander has to know;
it's unbelievable,  and he  has to  keep track of this, he has to
keep on  top of  it.   He has to know what's happening; he has to
make the right decisions.  Because it's almost humanly impossible
for anyone  to do  that, they have what's called a briefing team,
and it's  our job  to make  sure that he has the correct informa-
tion, all  the time,  on a 24-hour basis.  And every morning, be-
tween 8 and 9 a.m., we would give a briefing which covered every-
thing that  happened in  the previous  24 hours,  and  everything
scheduled to  happen in  the next 24 hours, and all the pertinent
intelligence reports that we had received since the last briefing
that he needed to know and that his staff members needed to know.
Occasionally we would get messages marked 'Top Secret, Magic, Re-
stricted Information,'  and it  would be coded in such a way that
all you  had were answers to questions which you didn't know what
the questions were so you really didn't know what the message was
all about.
     "But eventually  I found  myself in  possession, holding two
documents;  one  called  'Project  Grudge,'  another  one  called
'Operation Majority.'  Project Grudge  contained the  history  of
alien involvement  since around  1936, and it began talking about
Germany's involvement with a crashed disk that they had recovered
in 1936  and were  attempting to  duplicate the technology.  They
were not  successful despite  what all these Nazi hunters want to
tell you.  If they had been successful, we would not have won the
war, because  you cannot  beat those  weapons! You cannot out fly
those craft, you can't even think about it with conventional air-
craft.   If Germany had been successful, we would now have a Ger-
man flag up in front of this podium.
     "They did  make some headway.  When we went into Punta Mundy
[sp] we  captured documents,  we got some scientists, we got some
hardware.  The Russians also got some documents, some scientists,
and some  hardware.   It wasn't  until 1947  that we were able to
capture a  craft, a  whole craft, not all together but it was ev-
erything.   And that  occurred near the city of Roswell, New Mex-
ico.   There were  dead aliens recovered from the craft.  In Pro-
ject Grudge I saw photographs of these dead aliens, of the craft;
I saw photographs of live aliens; I saw photographs of autopsies,
internal organs; I saw photographs of the alien designated 'E.B.'
[or Ebe],  which was  held in  captivity from  1949 until June 2,
1952, when he died.  I saw the history of what they had been able
to at  that time put together, from incidents in the 1800s, which
involved aliens and their craft.
     "I saw  the names  of projects.  I saw a project that was to
fly recovered  alien craft that had been recovered intact and un-
damaged, and  some of  them were  recovered intact and undamaged,
and how  that happened  I have  no idea.   It was called 'Project
Redlight,' and first was conducted from the Tonopah test range in
the Nevada  test sight  and then  was moved  to a specially built
area, ordered  built by  president Eisenhower,  called 'Area-51,'
code named  'Dreamland,' in  the Groom  [sp] dry lake area of the
Nevada test  sight, by  secret executive order.  It doesn't exist
officially, if  you ask  anyone, or  if you  write letters to the
government they  will tell  you it doesn't exist.  However if you
go out there at several places and see it, fly outside the bound-
aries and  look down and see it, you know it's there, but accord-
ing to the government it doesn't exist.
     "The project to fly, test fly these craft, was ongoing until
sometime in  1962 when  a craft  blew up  not far  from the  test
sight, in  the air, and the explosion was seen over a three-state
area.  The pilots were killed, they had no idea what had happened
or why  the craft  blew up, but they put Project Redlight on hold
until a  later date  when the aliens supplied us with three craft
and personnel to help us learn how to fly these craft.  That pro-
ject is ongoing, and we now have not only alien craft that we are
flying, we  have craft we have built, using the captured technol-
ogy, and some of the UFOs that people report seeing in the United
States, and maybe even elsewhere, are flown by United States per-
sonnel.
     "That may  come as  a shock  to you.  We have technology way
beyond the limits of what we have been told.  A lot of our devel-
opment technologically,  since the  end of World War II, has been
due to the exchange of technology which occurs in the area called
'Area-51' on a regular basis ... ongoing.
     "When James  Oberth, Professor  Oberth retired,  many of you
don't know who he is ... not too many space people in here.  Pro-
fessor Oberth  was probably one of the greatest rocket scientists
and space  commentators that  ever lived.   When  he retired, the
government gave  him a  special award,  there was a press confer-
ence, all kinds of ceremony, and when he got up to speak he said,
'Gentlemen,' and  I quote  Professor Oberth, he said, 'Gentlemen,
we cannot take credit for all the technological developments that
we have  had in  the last  decade.  We have had help,' and that's
where he stopped.
     "One of  the reporters  raised his hand and said, 'Professor
Oberth, can you tell us what other country helped us?'
     "He said,  'It was those little guys from out in space,' and
then he got down and would not comment any further.  Now this oc-
curred in 1959.  I can go on and on, but time doesn't allow it.
     "I will  tell you  ladies and  gentlemen that  there are all
kinds of  things going  on all  the time,  we  are  making  rapid
progress in  exposing this.   Since  I have begun talking, people
have been  coming out  of the  woodwork at a rapid rate, who know
and have  pieces of this puzzle, and are helping us to put it to-
gether, because I don't have all the answers.  I saw an awful lot
of material,  I have remembered an awful lot of it, I have proba-
bly, in  my remembering,  made some mistakes, and I guarantee you
they're minor ones, if I have.
     "We have  just recently, for those of you who didn't believe
that the  Jason Society  of the Jason Scholars, the secret group,
existed, we now have a letter from the Pentagon, with 51 names of
the Jason Scholars, an admission from the Pentagon that they hold
the highest  security clearances in the nation, an admission from
the Pentagon  that they  hold the  protocol rank of Rear Admiral,
and are  treated as  such on  any military installation or in any
government office.   There  are six  Nobel Prize  winners on that
list, there  are the  elite of the elite of the scientific world,
they are  the only ones who really know the truth about the tech-
nology today  and about  the real science of physics, because the
one that  we're being  taught all  the time  ... If you send your
kids to  college to  learn physics  you're wasting your money be-
cause they're  teaching them  stuff that  doesn't work,  it's not
true, it's  not real.  Gravity is not what we think it is.  There
is a  Unified Theory! We already know what it is; it's what makes
these craft work.  It's absolutely incredible what's going on.
     "How many  of you  keep up with Billy Goodman's show on KVEG
out of  Las Vegas? For those of you who don't, I would try tuning
in on  any night  between 10 p.m. and 1 a.m.  It's 840 on your AM
dial, and  the subject  every night  are those  subjects that  no
other media person in the United States will touch with a 10-foot
pole, every  single night  except Saturday  night.  It's the only
show that  you can call in and talk to another caller, you've got
three minutes  to say  whatever you  want to  say as  long as you
don't cuss  or swear  or slander  anyone, and every night they're
helping to expose this.
     "When John  Lear and  I first  said what was going on out at
Groom Lake everybody said, 'You're nuts, there's nothing going on
out at Groom Lake!' The listeners of the Billy Goodman radio show
put together an excursion and went up to Groom Lake and they all,
ever since, every night, they go up there and watch them test fly
the alien  craft ...  every night!  The first  night they had 100
people there.   And  100 people  saw four  alien craft fly, doing
things that no airplane and no helicopter can do.  Now they don't
tell us  anymore that  there's nothing  happening at  Groom Lake.
What they  tell us  now is  there's no such thing as aliens, it's
all government  secret projects.   That's  OK because we'll prove
that wrong  too eventually, it just takes a while.  Because where
we were  ... it's  not where we're at, and I'm really happy about
that.
     "Now, if  you want  to see  what's happening right now, keep
watching your  movies, keep watching your television commercials,
your  alien  programs  on  television,  read  Whitley  Strieber's
Majestic,  which  is  a  part  of  the  contingency  plan  called
'Majestic' to test the reaction of the population to the presence
of aliens  on the  Earth.   And I  have just finished my study of
Whitley Strieber's book Majestic, and I'm going to tell you right
now that  most of  the documents  in  there,  that  he  says  are
fiction, are  real documents  that  came  right  out  of  Project
Grudge.  It is part of the government's campaign to leak informa-
tion out  in ways  that they  can always  deny  that  it's  real.
There's only  one thing  wrong with the information in that book,
the stories  of the  characters in  there I  know nothing  about.
What I'm talking about are the supposed government documents that
he has  in that  book.   I'm telling  you tonight  they're  real.
Those are some of the same documents that I saw in Project Grudge
back between  1970 and  1973, and  where we have wondered before,
now we  know that Whitley Strieber is working for the government.
And we had a suspicion anyway because in the front of his book he
states that  he got  information and  was helped  by the research
team of  Moore, Shanderey,  and Friedman.  William Moore has pub-
licly admitted on July 1 that he is an agent of the United States
Government, and we know that the others are too.
     "This is  going to come out, and the reason they're doing it
the way  they're doing it is they know eventually you're going to
find out  that it's all true and real.  They're desensitizing you
so that  you're not shocked, so that there's no collapse of soci-
ety as  we know  it, so that the religious structure doesn't fall
to pieces,  so that  the stock  market doesn't  go crazy, because
these were  their original fears.  Now, there's nothing we can do
about the last one because it's already happened, there will be a
segment of  the population  that worships the aliens, even though
they're no  different than  us; they're just from somewhere else,
and they  may look  a little  different.  They are not gods.  But
there are already people worshiping the aliens and they predicted
this would happen when they slapped the secret stamp all over all
this stuff.
     "You know,  there's really  nothing wrong  with what's  been
happening except for three things.  [Cooper forgot to mention the
third thing,  or was  sidetracked, or included it into the second
thing.]
     "No. 1,  when they  decided to keep it secret they needed to
finance it,  they couldn't tell the public, so they couldn't tell
Congress.   They decided to finance it with the sale, importation
and sale,  of drugs.  Now in the documents that I read, in Opera-
tion Majority,  it specifically  stated that when George Bush was
the president and CEO of Sapata [sp] Oil, he, in conjunction with
the CIA,  organized the  first large-scale  drug importation into
this country  from South  and Central America by fishing boat, to
the offshore  oil platforms  of Sapata  Oil, and  then from there
into the  beach, thus  bypassing all Customs inspections and law-
enforcement inspections  of any kind.  They are still bringing in
drugs, to a limited extent, in this manner.  Another manner is by
CIA contract  aircraft which,  one of  their bases  of landing is
Homestead [sp]  Air Force  Base in  Florida.   We have affidavits
from air  controllers who  have vectored  the planes in, who have
made sure  that they're  not interfered with in any way.  We have
affidavits from personnel at Homestead Air Force Base who say the
planes have  been met  by Jeb Bush, who is George Bush's son.  We
have affidavits  from people  who work  in the Gulf of Mexico, in
the offshore  oil business, that yes indeed, the drugs are coming
in, at least some of them, from the offshore oil platforms."
     From the audience came a clear statement, "Just say no?"
     "Pardon?   Right! Just Say No!  Well that's what we're going
to do  ladies and  gentlemen with your help.  We are going to say
no, no  more! And you have to do it, you have to act.  You either
have to act or watch your country go down the tubes.
     "Now, that's one of the things that's wrong.  The next thing
that's wrong  is, to keep the secret, they killed a lot of people
who tried to leak it out.  And if I hadn't done it the way that I
did it, you wouldn't be seeing me anywhere standing or walking on
this Earth  now.   They killed  President Kennedy  and during the
workshop, for  those of  you haven't  seen the  tape, I will show
you, on  the tape,  who shot  the president and why.  Between '70
and '73,  in Operation Majority it stated verbatim that President
Kennedy ordered  MJ-12 to cease the importation and sale of drugs
to the  American people, that he ordered them to implement a plan
to reveal  the presence  of aliens  to the American people within
the following  year.  His assassination was ordered by the policy
committee of  the Vilderbergers.   MJ-12 implemented the plan and
carried it  out in  Dallas.  It involved agents of the CIA, Divi-
sion-5 of  the FBI,  the Secret  Service, and the Office of Naval
Intelligence.   President Kennedy was killed by the driver of his
car, his  name was  William Greer, he used a recoilless, electri-
cally operated,  gas-powered assassination  pistol that  was spe-
cially built by the CIA to assassinate people at close range.  It
fired an explosive pellet which injected a large amount of shell-
fish poison into the brain, and that is why, in the documents, it
stated that  President Kennedy's  brain was  removed.   If you've
studied the  case, you  will find  that indeed  his brain  disap-
peared.   The reason  for that is so that they would not find the
particles of  the exploding pellet or the shellfish poison in his
brain which would have proved conclusively that Lee Harvey Oswald
was not  the assassin.   In fact, Lee Harvey Oswald never fired a
shot, he was the patsy."
     Mr. Cooper  paused briefly, and a lady in the audience asked
the obvious question, "Why haven't you been assassinated?"
     "If they  were to  kill me right now, what would you think?"
Cooper posed.
     "That it's the truth," several people chimed.
     "I've got  them right  where I want them.  If they touch me,
everyone who has ever heard me talk is going to be absolutely en-
raged and is going to know that everything I've said is true.  As
long as  they don't  touch me there's going to be some of you who
are always  going to be wondering.  But eventually we're going to
bring enough  proof out,  and if  you're here during the workshop
you're going  to see  an awful lot of it that's going to prove to
you that it's true.  It's real.  And it's happening!
     "Okay, I've tried to cover a lot of stuff, just briefly, be-
cause there's  no time  in 45  minutes to  get into anything very
much."
     Mr. Cooper then announced the scheduled workshop session the
following day  in which  tangible proofs  could be  seen but  the
transcriber was unable to attend.  He then opened up the floor to
questions and answers.
     A muffled question was barely heard coming from the front of
the room,  which in  essence asked, "What about all the people in
the press  and others who were in Dallas and who saw the assassi-
nation? Couldn't  they tell where the shot came from?  Why didn't
they come forward? There must have been plenty."
     "There was,  we know that there was at least 18 who were all
murdered within two years of the event.  The odds of that happen-
ing are 1 in 300,000 trillion," Cooper replied.
     Again a  muffled question, "Why did the driver have to shoot
Kennedy?"
     "Because the other fools missed! There were a total of three
shots fired  at President  Kennedy, one hit him in the throat and
didn't kill  him and two of them hit John Connelly [sp].  The one
that was  fired from  the grassy  knoll hit  the president in the
throat.  The other two shots came from directly behind the limou-
sine, not  the school  book depository building, and hit Governor
Connelly.   Governor Connelly, in intelligence community circles,
is known  as a  'can do'  man, because he took two hits and still
kept his mouth shut."
     "How is  it that the driver, sitting on the front, left-hand
side of  the car was able to blow off the right side of Kennedy's
brain when the bullet actually entered in, and it would have been
virtually impossible ..." another person asked.
     Mr. Cooper  seized the  gist of  his question  and injected,
"For those  of you who have been listening to all these talk show
hosts, whose  job it  is to be a talk show host, and who have not
done any  legitimate research into this, if you come to the work-
shop, I  will show  you, on  the tape, how it was done.  You will
see that  Kennedy was,  in fact  slumped over against Jackie, his
head was turned [this direction], it was very simple, it was easy
and you will see it with your own eyes."
     Another muffled,  off-mike question from a member of the au-
dience inquiring why no one else had come forward with the infor-
mation Mr.  Cooper was  disseminating, and  why those who knew it
had kept  it secret  for so long was quickly answered, "It hasn't
been, I'm  talking about  it now.  Bill English was talking about
it eight  years ago, but everybody laughed at Bill English.  John
Lear's been  talking about  it for  three  years,  and  everybody
laughed at  him.   Now there's  so many  people have been talking
about it,  people are  starting to  listen, and  it's about time.
Because it's  about time  we that we quit being fools, and that's
exactly what  they think  we are,  and we  prove it to them every
day."
     The next  question dealt with the alien technology and asked
in essence, "Hasn't any one else [other than the government] come
up with the energy technology that the aliens have?" to which Mr.
Cooper answered,  "There's been quite a few people who've come up
with it and they've all been stopped, and they'll all continue to
be stopped.  Because once you have it you have free energy.  Once
you have free energy they no longer have power over you.  You un-
derstand?  That's why they stop it."
     Another question  asking, "In the film of the assassination,
which was  examined greatly  by experts, why didn't they conclude
that Kennedy's driver shot him?" to which Cooper asked, "Examined
by whom greatly?  Most of the film that you can purchase has that
segment cut out, and you can always tell it by the person running
in the  background, they'll  run up  to here  ... all of a sudden
they'll be  down here  ... running.   You will see in most of the
clips that  you've ever  seen on television, or in the movies, or
that you're  able to  get your hands on, you'll see William Greer
start to  turn like this ..." then a muffled comment from the au-
dience, then  Cooper answered,  "That's because  they clipped  it
out! And  on a  lot of them, I'll bet you most of you, every time
you've seen  the clip  on television,  never looked at the driver
anyway.   If you're really honest with yourself, and with me, you
know your eyes were right on Kennedy."
     A woman  asked if any of the alien technology was being used
in present-day military equipment and was answered, "Yes, there's
a lot of alien technology contained in the Stealth bomber, that's
right.   The Stealth  fighter was  flying for 10 years before you
even knew it existed."
     As the hour drew late another question, more clearly stated,
was asked  of Mr.  Cooper, "Before  you let  us all  out of here,
there's a  bunch of  us here wondering what can we all do to help
bring this all out?"
     A single  word, "revolt,"  issued from several listeners si-
multaneously, but Cooper responded, "Don't revolt.  What you need
to do  is what you should have been doing all along.  You need to
get involved  with your  government.  The first thing you need to
do is purchase a copy of the Constitution, which I know that most
of you  don't have  anywhere in  your house,  and if I were to go
around this  room and ask each person what the Constitution says,
most of you couldn't tell me what the Constitution says from your
grocery bill.   And  that's the truth!  And that is your country!
So if  you don't  know what  your Constitution is you're dead al-
ready, so  the first  thing you do is you get a copy of your Con-
stitution.   The second  thing you  do is you learn it! The third
thing you  do is  you start calling your senators and your repre-
sentatives, and  the President of the United States and you start
leaning on them, and you tell them, 'Unless you straighten up the
government, and unless we start getting the truth, and I mean the
whole truth,  and no  more of  this baloney, this is the last job
you're ever  going to have, period.  And I'll do everything in my
power to  make sure  that comes  true.' And then write them, fre-
quently, saying  the same  thing.   And then when they're in your
area, in  their area offices, take a little delegation and go see
them, and make them understand that they're going to be living in
poverty because  they're not  going to  have a  job anymore  come
election day.   You see, the secret government may own the execu-
tive branch,  but you people, all of us, we own the Congress, and
the Congress makes the laws, and the Congress can impeach the en-
tire executive  branch!   You also have the right to petition the
government for  a redress  of injuries.   So  you  are  powerful,
you've just forgotten that you're powerful, you've forgotten that
that vote  that you  haven't been doing every time election comes
around, that  vote has  abdicated your  power.  That vote you did
not cast  abdicated your  power and gave it to those who are sub-
verting the Constitution and are ruining this country."
     A gentleman  then asked,  "What was traded to the aliens for
their technology?"
     "People and animals," replied Cooper succinctly.
     Another man asked, "Is the Soviet Union in on any of this?"
     "The Soviet Union and the United States of America have been
close allies  since the end of World War II and have been closely
participating in the secret space program all this time.  The So-
viets have  the same  thing we have, yes.  What you see happening
in the  Soviet block right now is not the result of people stand-
ing up  and saying,  'We want to be free.' It's the result of the
international bankers  saying, 'You tear down these barriers, and
you meet  the West  half way,  give your people some freedom, the
West is going to take some freedom away from their people so that
we can  put together a one-world economic system ... and have all
the power.   That's  what's happening!   If you don't believe it,
stick around and watch it!"
     A dubious  woman then  asked, "Why  was the shellfish poison
necessary?  A lot of his brain was blown off anyway."
     Cooper:   "The shellfish poison?  If you go to kill someone,
one thing  I've learned, I learned it real good, I learned it es-
pecially good  when I  went to  Vietnam; just  because you  shoot
someone doesn't  mean they're  going to  die.   And if they don't
die, they're  going to  be mad.  And if they've got a gun, you're
dead.  So you want the first time to be the last time.  So if you
really want  to kill  somebody you don't play around.  If you re-
ally want to kill somebody ... you kill them, you don't play, you
make sure  that when you shoot them, they're dead.  That way they
can't hurt you, can't hurt you at all."
     Regrettably, the  next question  was totally unintelligible,
but thankfully Mr. Cooper had a good public address system to am-
plify his  reply, "The first moon landing was May 22, 1962 ... or
excuse me,  that was  the first  landing on Mars.  I'm sorry, May
22, 1962,  was the  winged probe that used a hydrozine propeller,
flew around  approximately three  orbits and  landed on  May  22,
1962, was a joint United States/Russian endeavor.  The first time
that we  landed on  the moon was sometime during the ... probably
middle 50s,  because at  the time  when President  Kennedy stated
that he  wanted a  man to  set foot on the moon by the end of the
decade we already had a base there."
     "What about Mars?" came another quick question.
     "We have a base on Mars also," Cooper calmly replied.
     "When did that happen?"
     "I don't  know the exact date but I know the project's name,
it was 'Adam and Eve.'"
     "How long have you known about this?"
     "Well, I  revealed it publicly for the first time on July 2,
1989, and  within three weeks of the time I revealed it publicly,
the government,  to get  the American people not to listen to me,
came out  and said  that they planned to build a base on the moon
and a  colony on  Mars.   Now, three  days previous to my speech,
representatives from  NASA said,  'We can  never have a colony on
Mars, it's  impossible that there's a colony on Mars because Mars
is a  dead planet.'   And it's not a dead planet, they've lied to
you about Mars."
     "My name  is Dave  [unintelligible], I'm a representative of
the Crystic  Institute, and I'd like to know why it was that when
we sent  a representative down to your home, at your request, you
failed to  produce any documentation to substantiate your allega-
tions."
     "In the  first place  it was not at my request, I have never
contacted the  Crystic Institute  in my life.  I was on the Carol
Hemingway Show,  she contacted  the Crystic  institute, she  told
Daniel Shehan  [sp] that I had just said something about Bush and
drugs on her show.  He called me and told me he wanted to send an
investigator, in  fact he  told me  to even help the investigator
because he was new at the job, his name was Wayne Nelson, he is a
very good  gentleman, he  stayed at  my house for two days, slept
overnight on my couch, I gave him everything I had.  I never told
Daniel Shehan  that I  had any  documents and  I never told Wayne
Nelson that  I had any documents.  In fact what I told Wayne Nel-
son, and  I quote, 'Wayne, if I did have the documents I couldn't
admit it  and I don't know you from Adam, and I don't know Daniel
Shehan from  Adam and  what makes  you think I would give them to
you.'   Who am  I going  to give  them to  and how quick are they
going to  disappear, that was my thought.  Wayne Nelson also came
to my  house  with  a  stack  of  documents  this  thick  already
substantiating the  presence of aliens and extraterrestrial craft
on this planet, and they are keeping it a secret, because they're
afraid  somebody'll   laugh  at  them  and  they'll  loose  their
credibility.
     "We need some patriots in this country, not people trying to
make a  name for  themselves, trying to expose some drug runners,
because those  are just  the bag-men.   The  real crook is in the
White House! And you can tell that to Daniel Shehan!"
     "Why didn't  Jackie Kennedy report [the source of the lethal
shot]?" asked another audience member.
     "Who's she going to tell? The Secret Service just killed her
husband, and  they're assigned  to protect  the president.  Also,
who had her children? The same Secret Service had her children at
the time."
     "Wasn't the  craft at Roswell, New Mexico, destroyed and all
the aliens killed?" another young man asked.
     "All the  aliens were  dead but the craft was not completely
destroyed, it was severely damaged yes."
     On an  unrelated note  an older  gentleman asked, "Does that
mean that Alternative-3 is true?"
     "Alternative-3 is absolutely true and so is Alternative-2."
     Then a  man in  his late  20s or  early 30s raised his hand,
said something  unintelligible, and  was apparently recognized by
Mr. Cooper,  who asked him to take the podium and address the au-
dience.
     "What I  said was  that I thanked him [Cooper] very much for
coming forward  and saying  something.   A lot  of my friends out
here know  that I  was involved  in  the  United  States  Special
Forces, UFO  Tracking and  Research from  the years 1971 to 1975.
My name  is Richard  Murray, I was based out of the 71st Tac Con-
trol Flight,  McDill Air  Force Base,  Tampa, Florida.   We  were
'Mobile Radar  Command,' that was combat and war ready.  We could
be loaded  on aircraft  within an  hour and many times were taken
into areas  [to] set  up radar.   A  lot of  times we were set up
around Egland  [sp] Air Force Base because that's where they have
the 'Altered  Temperature Weather  Control,' where  they can test
various aircraft  for their  shrinkage and their dimension change
during altered  temperature.  So, you know, I was told to shut up
twice in  1982 and  they finally  threatened my parents life so I
stayed quiet,  and, that's  when Wendel Stevens was taken off the
streets ...  Just like that!  And I hid for quite awhile, and de-
cided to  come back out when I heard that you're [Cooper] of such
high rank  as you  were, and I felt just in saying that your cre-
dentials are  true, and  that what  you have  to say,  everything
you've said  here today,  I've heard  before behind closed doors.
And you've  really tied  the link  for me to the Kennedy killing.
And there's a few more links that have to go on with the Columbia
Cartel and  the money  laundering.  I think there's more than one
cartel involved, and they're shutting one of them down so one can
maintain a power, it just seems to be the way it works."
     A muffled  question then  came from  someone in the audience
regarding the person referred to as "Colonel Stevens."
     "Uh, Colonel Stevens is out of jail now," replied Murray who
was quickly  asked another  question I  couldn't hear to which he
answered, "I  sure hope  to hell so, he is a wonderful man, and I
give him my utmost respect, and it was one of the saddest days in
my life  to see  what happened to him happen to him.  But I don't
care what  they say  about Wendel  Stevens, in my heart you can't
discredit that  man to me.  I don't care who the hell you are.  I
won't listen  to it,  I don't  give a shit if he was screwing ba-
bies.  You know ... that doesn't ... he's not that kind of a man,
I don't care what you say, I know him personally."
     The lecture  was then  essentially over.  The "Alternative-2
and Alternative-3"  that  were  referred  to  briefly  are  (just
guessing now)  two government  contingency plans  to  1.  Declare
Martial Law and invalidate the Constitution on the premise that a
terrorist group  had entered  the country  with a  Nuclear weapon
with plans  to detonate it in a major city.  All dissidents would
be rounded up and placed in concentration camps and the press and
media would be nationalized.  All this if the information becomes
public before  they want  it  to  or  if  the  aliens  attempt  a
takeover, and 2. Another contingency plan to contain or delay the
release of  this information,  the details of which I am probably
wrong about anyway.
     Mr. Cooper  is a  man who  appears to be in his late 40s, of
medium height  and weight,  and was  dressed casually  during the
lecture.  His hairline was receding slightly, and he carried him-
self with  confidence and purpose.  Bill Cooper, as he was called
by several  in attendance,  is not  a professional  speaker.  His
presentation lacked  the polish  of repeated deliveries which all
the other  lectures had  during the  Expo, but  what it lacked in
fine tuning was easily made up for in its content.


                 Appendix A:  Operation Majority


OPERATION MAJORITY
FINAL RELEASE
THERE WILL BE NO CORRECTIONS TO THIS FILE
(C) COPYRIGHT 1989 BY MILTON WILLIAM COOPER
ALL RIGHTS RESERVED
YOU HAVE  MY PERMISSION  TO QUOTE  FROM THIS INFORMATION IN PRESS
RELEASES, PERIODICALS, AND SPEECHES.
INCLUSION IN  ANY OTHER MEDIA REQUIRES MY EXPRESS WRITTEN PERMIS-
SION.

     This file  contains the  absolute true information regarding
the alien presence on Earth and the U.S. Government's involvement
with the aliens.
     This file contains only the information as I saw it and only
my information.
     It does not contain any information from any other source.
     It was necessary for me to issue the information previous to
this release in a manner which would deceive the government until
someone was able to independently confirm my identity, my employ-
ment, my service record, my intelligence background, the identity
of the  person to  which I  gave the information in 1972, his ac-
knowledgment of  the information  and when  it was  given to him,
that the  information is  correct, that I have not seen him since
1974, and that I have not communicated with him in any form since
1976.
     This was  necessary because this file is my death warrant if
MJ-12 continues  to operate  in a manner consistent with its his-
tory.
     All in the last paragraph has been independently verified by
two different  people who  have no connection with each other.  I
will only list one for obvious reasons.
     Tony Pelham, journalist
     Las Vegas Bullet
     300 West Boston
     Las Vegas, Nevada  89102.
     The original  information that I first released was not much
MAJI that I was not a threat long enough to have independent ver-
ification of the facts before I risked death.  [TRANSMISSION GAR-
BLED]
     I wish  to make  it absolutely  clear that I do not consider
myself a hero.
     I believe  that most  of you  would do the same thing if you
knew the truth.
     I gave an oath that I would uphold and protect the Constitu-
tion of  the United  States of  America and I take that oath very
seriously.
     I am doing no more now than I did when I fought in Vietnam.
     I am doing my duty.
     Please make  copies of  this file  and send  it to your con-
gressman, your  senator,  the  attorney  general  of  the  United
States, and the Supreme Court.
     Send it also to everyone you know.
     Attach copies of the Bill English file and John Lears file.
     Send anything  else you  may have which tends to support the
information.
     I, Milton  William Cooper, 1311 S. Highland #205, Fullerton,
California, 92632, 1-714-680-9537, do solemnly swear that the in-
formation contained  in this file is true and correct to the best
of my knowledge.
     I swear  that I  saw this information in 1972 in the perfor-
mance of  my duties as a member of the Intelligence Briefing Team
of the Commander In Chief of the Pacific Fleet as a Petty Officer
in the U.S. Navy.
     I swear  that I  underwent hypnotic  regression in  order to
make the information as accurate as possible.
     I swear  that I can and will take a lie detector test or any
other test of any reputable person's choosing in order to confirm
this information.
     I swear that I can and will undergo hypnotic regression con-
ducted by  any reputable  and qualified  doctor of  any reputable
person's choosing in order to confirm this information.
     I will not, however submit to any test or hypnosis by anyone
who is  now or has ever been connected with the government in any
capacity for obvious reasons.
     The following  is brief listing of everything that I person-
ally saw  and know  from 1972 and does not contain any input from
any other source whatsoever.
     MAJESTY was listed as the code word for the President of the
United States for communications concerning this information.
     OPERATION MAJORITY  is the name of the operation responsible
for every  aspect, project,  and consequence of alien presence on
Earth.
     GRUDGE contains  16 volumes  of documented  information col-
lected from  the beginning  of the United States investigation of
Unidentified Flying  Objects (UFOs)  and Identified  Alien Crafts
(IACs).
     The  project   was  financed   by  CIA   confidential  funds
(nonappropriated) and money from the illicit drug trade.  Partic-
ipation in  the illegal drug trade was justified in that it would
identify and  eliminate the  weak elements  of our  society.  The
purpose of  Project Grudge was to collect all scientific, techno-
logical, medical and intelligence information from UFO/IAC sight-
ings and contacts with alien life forms.
     This orderly  file of collected information has been used to
advance the United States Space Program.
     MJ-12 is the name of the secret control group.
     President Eisenhower  commissioned a secret society known as
THE JASON SOCIETY (JASON SCHOLARS) to sift through all the facts,
evidence, technology,  lies and  deception and  find the truth of
the alien question.
     The society  was made  up of 32 of the most prominent men in
the country in 1972 and the top 12 members were designated MJ-12.
     MJ-12 has  total control  over everything.   They are desig-
nated by  the codes  J-1, J-2,  etc., all  the  way  through  the
members of the Jason Society.
     The director  of the CIA was appointed J-1 and is the Direc-
tor of MJ-12.
     MJ-12 is responsible only to the President.
     MJ-12 runs most of the world's illegal drug trade.
     This was  done to hide funding and thus keep the secret from
the Congress and the people of the United States.
     It was justified in that it would identify and eliminate the
weak elements of our society.
     The cost  of funding  the alien connected projects is higher
than anything you can imagine.
     MJ-12 assassinated  President Kennedy  when he informed them
that he  was going  to tell the public all the facts of the alien
presence.
     He was  killed by  the Secret Service agent driving his car,
and it is plainly visible in the film held from public view.
     A secret meeting place was constructed for MJ-12 in MARYLAND
and it was described as only accessible by air.
     It contains  full living, recreational, and other facilities
for MJ-12 and the JASON SOCIETY.
     It is  code named  "THE COUNTRY  CLUB."  Only those with TOP
SECRET/MAJIC clearance are allowed to go there.
     MAJI is the MAJORITY AGENCY FOR JOINT INTELLIGENCE.
     All information,  disinformation, and  intelligence is gath-
ered and evaluated by this agency.
     This agency  is responsible for all disinformation and oper-
ates in  conjunction with  the CIA, NSA, and the Defense Intelli-
gence Agency.
     This is a very powerful organization, and all alien projects
are under its control.
     MAJI is responsible only to MJ-12.
     SIGMA is  the project which first established communications
with the aliens and is still responsible for communications.
     PLATO is  the project  responsible for  diplomatic relations
with the aliens.
     This project secured a formal treaty (illegal under the Con-
stitution) with the aliens.
     The terms were that the aliens would give us technology.
     In return,  we agreed  to keep their presence on earth a se-
cret, not  to interfere in any way with their actions, and to al-
low them to abduct humans and animals.
     The aliens  agreed to furnish MJ-12 with a list of abductees
on a periodic basis.
     MAJIC is  the security  classification and  clearance of all
alien connected material, projects, and information.
     MAJIC means MAJI Controlled.
     AQUARIUS is  a project  which compiled  the history of alien
presence and their interaction with Homo Sapiens upon this planet
for the  last 25,000 years and culminating with the Basque people
who live  in the  mountainous country on the border of France and
Spain and the Syrians.
     GARNET is  the project responsible for control of all infor-
mation and documents regarding this subject and accountability of
the information and documents.
     PLUTO is  a project to evaluate all UFO/IAC information per-
taining to space tel [TRANSMISSION GARBLED]
     POUNCE is  the project  formed to recover all downed/crashed
craft and aliens.
     REDLIGHT is the project to test fly recovered alien craft.
     It is conducted at AREA 51 (DREAMLAND) in Nevada.
     It was aided when the aliens gave us craft and helped us fly
them.
     The initial  project was somewhat successful in that we flew
a recovered craft, but it blew up in the air, and the pilots were
killed.
     The project  was suspended  at that  time until  the  aliens
agreed to help us.
     SNOWBIRD was  established as  a cover  for project REDLIGHT.
Several flying  saucer type  craft were  built using conventional
technology.
     They were  unveiled to  the press  and flown in front of the
press.
     The purpose  was to  explain accidental sightings or disclo-
sure of REDLIGHT as having been the SNOWBIRD craft.
     LUNA is the alien base on the far side of the Moon.
     It was seen and filmed by the Apollo astronauts.
     A base,  a mining  operation using  very large machines, and
the very  large alien  craft described  in  sighting  reports  as
MOTHER SHIPS exist there.
     NRO is the National Recon Organization based at Fort Carson,
Colorado.
     It is  responsible for security for all alien or alien craft
connected projects.
     DELTA is  the designation  for the  specific arm of the NRO,
which is  especially trained  and tasked  with security  of these
projects.
     JOSHUA is  a project to develop a low frequency pulsed sound
generating weapon.
     It was  said that this weapon would be effective against the
alien craft and beam weapons.
     EXCALIBUR is  a weapon  to  destroy  the  alien  underground
bases.   It is to be a missile capable of penetrating 1000 meters
of Tuff/hard packed soil such as that found in New Mexico with no
operational damage.
     Missile apogee not to exceed 30,000 feet AGL and impact must
not deviate in excess of 50 meters from designated target.
     The device will carry a one-megaton nuclear warhead.
     ALIENS:   There were  four types  of aliens mentioned in the
papers.   A LARGE  NOSED GREY  with whom  we have the treaty, the
GREY reported  in abductee  cases that  works for the LARGE NOSED
GREY, a  blond human  like type  described as  the NORDIC,  a red
haired human like type called the ORANGE.
     The home of the aliens were described as being a star in the
Constellation of Orion, Barnards star, and Zeta Riticuli 1&2.
     I cannot remember even under hypnosis which alien belongs to
which star.
     EBE is  the name or designation given to the live alien cap-
tured at the 1949 Roswell crash.
     He died in captivity.
     KRLL OR KRLLL OR CRLL OR CRLLL pronounced Crill or Krill was
the hostage  left with  us at  the first  Holloman landing  as  a
pledge that  the aliens  would carry  out their part of the basic
agreement reached during that meeting.
     KRLL gave  us the  foundation of  the yellow  book which was
completed by the guests at a later date.
     KRLL became sick and was nursed by Dr. G. Mendoza who became
the expert on alien biology and medicine.  KRLL later died.
     His information  was disseminated  under the  pseudonym O.H.
Cril or Crill.
     GUESTS were aliens exchanged for humans who gave us the bal-
ance of the yellow book.
     At the time I saw the information there were only three left
alive.
     They were called (P&#'s) Alien Life Forms.
     [TRANSMISSION GARBLED]
     RELIGION
     The aliens  claim to  have created  Homo Sapiens through hy-
bridization.
     The papers said that RH-blood was proof of this.
     They further  claimed to  have created  all four major reli-
gions.
     They showed  a hologram  of the  crucifixion of Christ which
the government filmed.
     They claim that Jesus was created by them.
     ALIEN BASES  exist in  the four  corners area  of Utah, Col-
orado, New Mexico, and Nevada.
     Six bases  were described  in the 1972 papers, all on Indian
reservations and  all in  the four  corners area.   The base near
Dulce was one of them.
     MURDER
     The documents  stated that many military and government per-
sonnel had  been terminated (murdered without due process of law)
when they had attempted to reveal the secret.
     CRAFT RECOVERIES
     The documents stated that many craft had been recovered.
     The early  ones from  Roswell, Aztec,  Roswell again, Texas,
Mexico, and other places.
     GENERAL DOOLITTLE  made a  prediction that  one day we would
have to  reckon with  the aliens, and the document stated that it
appeared that General Doolittle was correct.
     ABDUCTIONS were occurring long before 1972.
     The document  stated that  humans and animals were being ab-
ducted and or mutilated.
     Many vanished without a trace.
     They were  taking sperm  and ova  samples, tissue, performed
surgical operations,  implanted a  spherical device  40 to 80 mi-
crons in  size near the optic nerve in the brain and all attempts
to remove it resulted in the death of the patient.
     The document  estimated that one in every 40 people had been
implanted.
     This implant  was said  to give  the aliens total control of
that human.
     CONTINGENCY PLAN  SHOULD THE  INFORMATION BECOME  PUBLIC  OR
SHOULD THE ALIENS ATTEMPT A TAKEOVER.
     This plan  called for a public announcement that a terrorist
group had entered the United States with an atomic weapon.
     It would  be announced  that the terrorists planned to deto-
nate the weapon in a major city.
     Martial law  would be declared and all persons with implants
would be rounded up along with all dissidents and would be placed
into concentration camps.
     The press,  radio, and  TV would  be nationalized  and  con-
trolled.   Anyone attempting  to  resist  would  be  arrested  or
killed.
     CONTINGENCY PLAN TO CONTAIN OR DELAY RELEASE OF INFORMATION
     This plan  called for the use of MAJESTIC TWELVE as a disin-
formation ploy  to delay  and confuse  the release of information
should anyone get close to the truth.
     It was  selected because  of the  similarity of spelling and
the similarity to MJ-12.
     It was  designed to confuse memory and to result in a fruit-
less search for material that does not exist.
     SOURCE OF MATERIAL CONTAINED IN THE DOCUMENTS WHICH I SAW
     The source  of the  material was an Office of Naval Intelli-
gence counter-intelligence  operation against  MJ-12 in order for
the Navy to find out the truth of what was really going on.
     The Navy  (at that  time or  at least the Navy that I worked
for) were not participants in any of this.
     The different  services and the government conduct this type
of operation against each other all the time.
     The result  of this  operation was  that the  Navy cut them-
selves in  for a  piece of the action (technology) and control of
some projects.
     As you  can see this file is only a little different from my
previous file.
     Only some  names were  scrambled previously  to confuse  the
government long  enough for  someone to  verify that  what I have
said is the truth.
     I have  added information in this file that puts me in abso-
lute danger.
     I have sent a copy of this file to people all over the coun-
try and will continue to do so.
     Please get this file into as many hands as you can and maybe
that will protect me but I doubt it.
     HISTORY WILL  BE THE JUDGE OF ME AND THIS INFORMATION, AND I
HAVE NO FEAR OF THAT JUDGEMENT.
     I SWEAR  THAT THIS  INFORMATION IS  TRUE AND  CORRECT TO THE
BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE.
     I wish to thank all those people who have aided me in reach-
ing this point and for their patience and understanding.
     I owe you all more than I can ever repay.
     Finally, it does not matter who is right and who is wrong or
if a project name is in the wrong place.
     It does not matter who is working for whom or what is really
what.
     It should be obvious by now that something sinister and ter-
ribly wrong is going on involving the government and the UFO phe-
nomenon.
     We must all band together and expose it now.
     I have done my part in the best manner that I could.
     I can  add nothing else except my testimony in Congress or a
court of  law that  what I  saw and  have written in this file is
true and that I saw it.
     Everything in  my previous* file that does not conflict with
this file  is true  and correct  to the  best of my knowledge and
some of it is from sources and research.
     You may combine the files to get the entire picture.
     Throw out  only that  information that  conflicts with  that
contained in this file.
     There will  be no  further additions  or corrections to this
information either now or in the future.
     My file is complete and stands to be judged by history.
     Sometime in the future the exact papers that I saw will sur-
face, and  you will  all see  this  exact  information  contained
within them.
     Milton William Cooper
     Jan. 10, 1989


                Appendix B:  For More Information


Cooper's home address and phone number:

1311 S. Highland #205
Fullerton, Calif.  92632
1-714-680-9537

That phone number connects you to an anonymous answering machine.

This information  was taken  from the  Bill Cooper answering com-
puter on 1-213-281-8222.

For materials  and bibliography,  send $2  (no mention made of to
whom you  should make out the check) and a 45-cent self-addressed
stamped envelope to:

19744 Beach Blvd. Suite #301
Huntington Beach, Calif.  92648

To talk  to someone  about ordering  or available materials, call
Stan Barrington  at 1-805-948-1255.   He'll  even call  you back.
Here's what he had to offer as per my phone conversation with him
on Feb. 27, 1990:

The real  Kennedy assassination  tape, $18.  This is the unedited
    Zapruder film  that clearly shows the driver killing JFK.  On
    VHS tape.
Video of  Cooper speech  and workshop  from Sedona,  Ariz.,  $32.
    This is  a videotaped  speech and  workshop from  Cooper that
    also shows  the Kennedy  tape (not  very clearly, though).  I
    think this  is basically  the same  deal as  the above  tran-
    script.  On VHS tape.
"Secret Government,"  $12.  Details, in 28 pages, the workings of
    the secret subgovernment in the U.S. since 1947.
"Operation Majority,"  $12.   Details the goings on and structure
    of Operation Majority, the people who run all UFO-related ac-
    tivities.
"Jason Society,"  $12.   List of  51 scientists,  last updated in
    1987, who  work for  Operation Majority.   The group is still
    trying to  find the last three scientists who are Jason Soci-
    ety members.

For any of the above, send a check to:

Stan Barrington
2059 E. Ave. I #11
Lancaster, Calif.  93535

Barrington says  that the target date for one-world government is
1992.

To invite  Cooper to  speak or  be on  TV, call Jeff Patterson or
Scott Reid at 1-213-657-8004.

Cooper's manager is Michael Callan, at 1-213-550-8368.

Cooper was  in Atlanta  on Feb.  25.  For  information  call  Sam
Matthews at 1-404-435-4233.

This is  the journalist whom Cooper mentions in his Operation Ma-
jority file.  This person supposedly can verify the facts:

Tony Pelham
Las Vegas Bullet
300 West Boston
Las Vegas, Nevada  89102

For the book Alien Magic by William Hamilton, which has all kinds
of pictures from a secret lab, write:

Robert Girard
P.O. Box 83183
Stone Mountain, Ga.  30083-0023
1-404-297-4624


                      Appendix C:  Musings


     There is  some thought  that the U.S. Air Force, in conjunc-
tion with  the Canadians,  has standing  orders to  deny any  UFO
sightings to the public.
     Timothy  Good,   in  his  book  Above  Top  Secret,  states:
"Cooperation between  the United States and Canada in the report-
ing of  UFOs was  laid down,  for example, in the Canadian-United
States Communications  Instructions for  Reporting Vital Intelli-
gence Sightings  (CIRVIS) JANAP  146 (E), issued in March 1966 by
the Joint  Chiefs of Staff as well as the Canadian Defense Staff.
This  publication   lists  instructions   for  the  reporting  of
'information of  vital importance  to the  security of the United
States of America and Canada and their forces, which in the opin-
ion of the observer, requires very urgent defensive and/or inves-
tigative action by the U.S. and/or Canadian armed forces.' Sight-
ings within  the scope  of JANAP 146 include 'Unidentified Flying
Objects' as  distinct from  'Hostile of  unidentified single air-
craft or formations of aircraft,' and there are lengthy and elab-
orate instructions for reporting UFOs" (Good, 192).
     And later he states:  "Because of reports like these [UFOs],
airline pilots  became subject to military restrictions contained
in a  Joint Army-Navy-Air  Force Publication (JANAP), drawn up by
the Joint  Communications-Electronics Committee,  and promulgated
by the  Joint Chiefs of Staff, and could thus find themselves li-
able to  a prison term of up to 10 years and/or a fine of $10,000
if they  discussed their  sightings with  the  media  or  public"
(Good, 283).

                              * * *

     Stan Barrington offers a document about "Operation Majority,
which concerns  the dealings of MJ-12.  The following discussion,
taken from  the alt.conspiracy  section of Usenet, focuses on the
validity of those documents:
     "What  is   the  latest   status  of   the  MJ-12  documents
(concerning authenticity)?   I  know that Klass did his usual de-
bunking job,  but also  read that  Friedman produced all the sup-
porting evidence  Klass had demanded (similar typefaces in use on
other documents  of the same era, etc.).  Has the U.S. Government
taken a  formal position on the MJ-12  documents?  What evidence,
pro and  con, has  been produced  on the authenticity issue since
their release.  What are the details of the release?  Any and all
information will be appreciated.  Thanks."
     The reply  was:   "I don't  know about the U.S. Government's
position, but  Klass has  done a  pretty good job of showing that
there is  at least  some fraud  in the papers.  In particular, he
has shown  that the  supposed signature of Harry Truman on one of
the critical  papers is  identical to  the signature  on  another
document in  the National Archives, except that it's (if I recall
correctly)  3.6  percent  larger.    It  is  impossible  for  two
signatures to  be identical  unless one is a photographic copy of
the other,  and interestingly,  most copying  machines do  a very
small expansion  of what  they copy  to prevent  edge  effects--a
blow-up of exactly 1.2 percent.  So it would appear this supposed
signature is  actually a  third-generation photocopy  of Truman's
signature.   Handwriting experts  have confirmed this.  I believe
it's written  up in the current (Spring 1990) Skeptical Inquirer,
but I can't find my copy at the moment so I can't say for sure."
     I don't  know who  Klass or Friedman are, (although Friedman
may be the same person that was mentioned as a helper in Majestic
by Whitley  Strieber, and also mentioned as a government official
in the speech) but the Skeptical Inquirer is a respected paranor-
mal debunking newspaper put out by James "the Amazing" Randi.
     It also seems to me that the idea that Truman's signature is
a photocopy of another one in the National Archives is a bit odd.
There must  be thousands of Truman signature in the Archives, and
thinking that  someone could  find the one that exactly matched a
3.6 percent  enlargement is laughable (but then again, those same
people find the idea of a huge UFO cover-up laughable).

                              * * *

     Whitley Strieber  is a  strange character  in this whole af-
fair.   He is  the writer  of Wolfen  and The Howling, two horror
novels.  Lately, he turned to writing about UFOs.
     His first  book on  the subject,  Communion, deals  with his
personal experiences  with abduction  by an  unknown intelligence
(Strieber always tries to avoid the word "alien," so he can leave
the options open that these are humans that are traveling through
time or  even an unknown earthly intelligence).  His second book,
Transformation, is  not as  familiar to me, but I have heard that
it is more of the same as Communion, except that it is less well-
supported and  deals with  a sort  of religion  of  the  unknown.
Strieber contends  in that  book that  the "others"  (as he calls
them) gave  him a  sketchy design  for an anti-gravity motor that
relies on rotating magnets.
     His third  book is Majestic.  Milton William Cooper mentions
it in his speech.  This book follows the Cooper speech closely in
many regards;  in fact,  sometimes it  seems like one is stealing
from the  other because  they are so close.  Strieber writes this
book as  fiction, but  at the  end there is a section in which he
says that  the book  is based on truth and that the government is
hiding information  from the  public.  He insists that this truth
must be brought out.  However, Cooper says that Strieber is work-
ing for  the government.  He offers some proof to this claim, but
he doesn't  really say  why the government would hire Strieber to
write Majestic, or whether he was hired before he wrote Communion
and Transformation.   All Cooper says is that Strieber is testing
the waters,  leaking the information in a way that the government
could deny.
     I think  that if  Strieber works for the government, then it
is mostly  likely because  the government thinks that people will
not believe  anything he  writes about UFOs, given his history of
writing horror.   Thus,  the government  has Strieber write some-
thing that  is based  on truth,  and everyone thinks it is coming
from such a bad source that it must be false.

                              * * *

     This from Keith Rowell in Oregon:
     "You folks  interested in Strieber's claims should check out
the book Report on Communion (Morrow, 1989) by Ed Conroy.
     "Conroy is  a San Antonio-based freelance reporter who wrote
some early articles for the local newspaper and then continued to
explore and  investigate till  he ended up with a book.  He basi-
cally concludes  that Strieber's claims are true as far as we now
understand the UFO phenomenon, which is very far from adequate at
this time.   (The  scholarly and scientific establishment has yet
to honestly  and openly embrace the problem of the UFO.  Conroy's
book is  opening the  way for  the  investigative  media  people,
though.   Things are changing as the UFO issue just refuses to go
away.)   You will all hear more and more about the reality status
of UFOs  as we  go through the 1990s.  Intelligence establishment
secrecy is  being slowly broken down and the scientific/scholarly
community is  slowly putting  up less  resistance as the years go
by.
     "My opinions are based on 15 years of reading the UFO liter-
ature and  four years  or so of more or less active participation
in the  UFO community.  It is very hard to understand what is go-
ing on  in the  UFO community without paying very close attention
to it.   The  normal sources  of news  and information cover this
group of  people in  a very  inconsistent and sometimes downright
biased way.   You're  just going  to have to get your feet wet on
this one; otherwise, you'll just being talking through your hat.
     "I'll be happy to send via electronic mail my representative
UFO bibliography  to anyone  who wants it.  Lately, new (and sig-
nificant) UFO books are added practically monthly in the past few
years.   UFOs are hot again.  We seem to be in a peak of activity
again.
     "The latest  significant book  is by Ed Walters on his Gulf-
breeze UFO/photograph  experiences, being distributed to your lo-
cal bookstores as I write this."
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo
From: [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFO meeting in Berlin
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Apr 92 11:39:32 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System
Lines: 61

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Clark Matthews) writes:

>Hallo, Andre!  Greetings from New York!

Hello Clark, greetings back to New York from Berlin!


> > International UFO congress in Berlin (Germany)

> > KIK - communication in the universe, congress & exhibition
> > 16.-20.4.92 in Berlin
> > A international UFO-congress take place at April 16.-20. in
> > Berlin.
>Gratulieren und glueck auf mit dieser Konferenz!  Aber ich habe einige Frage ueber Virgil Armstrong.
>[Kudos on the Conference -- But I've got some questions re: Virgil Armstrong]
> > Speakers:
> > Virgil Armstrong,   USA,    Sponsor, as secret service
> >                             officer he works
> >                             on the recovery of the first
> >                             UFO, found 1948 in
> >                             the USA.
>Meiner Erinnerung nach, war Armstrong Astronaut in der fruehern Tagen des US Space Program.  Ich habe nichts von seiner Roswell-Aktivitaeten gehoert.  Sind Sie sicher, dass diesen Mann gutglaeubig ist?  Entw. echt Astronaut od. echt Roswellzeuge?
>Sei vorsichtig, mein Freund -- die Betrueger und die Disinformers (Unberichtstattern???  Die Wortschatz hilft nicht...) kommen von allen Seiten.
>[To our American listeners -- I'm wondering if *anyone* has heard of Virgil Armstrong's involvement in the Roswell case?  I've never heard of this guy.  Could it be a *different* Virgil Armstrong?  Or could this possibly refer to Gerald Anderson -- who was only 8 or 9 at the time and certainly was not an Army-Intelligence man?  I'm wondering just exactly who our German friends have speaking at their conference...]
>Andre, ich habe deine Konferenz-notiz ins INFO.PARANET sitzt. Glueck auf!
>Best,
>  Clark
>Clark Matthews - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
>UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
>INTERNET: [e-mail]

Hi Clark,
I gonna take also a look at this conference !
I'm still looking for good UFO-video tapes for digitisation to put them up
in a MultiMedia MPEG format to an FTP site.

BTW, the conference it very expensive to participate !!!
It is 400 german marks , that is about 250 US$ !!! :-((

But single lectures cost only 30 DM to participate !
I will participate at the Virgil Amstrong lecture about the Roswell incident
at Friday 17th April 1992 from 11 am to 1 pm.
I think this could be worth the 30 german marks.
 I will keep You updated, when I'm back from the conference.

Could please somebody update the Internet in this newsgroup about the UFO
conference taking place a few days before the Berlin UFO-conference
over there in the USA with Don Ecker and Phil Class ???

Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for
Decentral Energy Research
email to: [e-mail]


--

*******************************************************************************
*  Stefan Hartmann       This is how to contact me:                           *
*  EMAIL: [e-mail]                                            *
*  Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66      FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79                   *
*******************************************************************************
Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!nosc!crash!nusdecs!arghouse!arg
From: [e-mail] (G.Argendeli-Sysop)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.stupidity,alt.exploding.kibo,alt.religion.kibol
Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 13 Apr 92 23:46:57 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Distribution: ca
Organization: The Listening Post
Lines: 81
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5272 alt.slack:2980 alt.stupidity:4607 alt.exploding.kibo:187

[e-mail] (Jeffrey Klein) writes:

> In article <smedley.702576727@milton> [e-mail] (Willia
> >[e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:
> >
> >>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Roger Lee) writes:
> >>>In <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
> >>>
> >>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Pa
> >>>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
> >>>>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
> >>>>>>>In article <[e-mail]> waldbyjf@NeXTwo
> >>>>>>>>In article <[e-mail]>
> >>>>>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
> >>>>>>>>> [e-mail] (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes:
> >>>>>>>>> >In article <[e-mail]>
> >>>>>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
> >>>>>>>>> >>[e-mail] (Kevin L. McBride) writes:
> >>>>>>>>> >>>[e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
> >>>>>>>>> >>>> In article <[e-mail]>
> >>>>>>>>[e-mail] (barry.o.olson) writes:
> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >In article <[e-mail]>,
> >>>>>>>>[e-mail] (Russ Taylor) writes:
> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (J
> >>>>>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes:
> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed]
> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS.
> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper.
> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH.  I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOUL
> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*.
> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but on
> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents?  A thousand-degree flame on you!
> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!)
> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth?
> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich
> >>>>>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width.
> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it?
> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it
> >>>>>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it.
> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor
> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor
> >>>>>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer.
> >>>>>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE?  PLEASE EXERC
> >>>>>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT.
> >>>>>>>>> >>>Okay.
> >>>>>>>>> >>    Come on guys, I think he means it.  Don't follow up to this.
> >>>>>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious.
> >>>>>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up.
> >>>>>>>>> >Or kill me.
> >>>>>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess.
> >>>>>>>>Shhhh!
> >>>>>>>>> >[e-mail]
> >>>>>>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming  305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA
> >>>>>>>>> >(  the  nonibo  -ibo  )  [phone] [home]  [phone] [of
> >>>>>>>>>     No!  Don't follow up to this!  Whatever you do, _don't_ press
> >>>>>>>>> that "f" button!  It's a sin!  It's a sin!  This is against the god
> >>>>>>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly!  See what you do!  You waste a
> >>>>>>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens!  Nay, until the
> >>>>>>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the
> >>>>>>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up!  My
> >>>>>>>>> _GOD_!  How can you even think it!  How can you dream it and still
> >>>>>>>>> remain sane?!?!?  How can it be?!?!?!?!  Gah!!!!
> >>>>>>>>> [e-mail]      | The meek shall inherit the earth,
> >>>>>>>>> [e-mail] |     and the wise keep moving on...
> >>>>>>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156     O    |------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>>>  Amherst, NY  14226      +    |Ask me about the Secret Society!  Sh
> >>>>>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion?  I
> >>>>>>>>missed the earlier parts.
> >>>>>>There.  No more wasted "Bandwidth"
> >>>>>Huh?
> >>>>Duh!
> >>>NOT!
> >>Got.
> >Gott.
> What?
Je Ne Comprends Pas.... Pas!

---
"By this time, my lungs were aching for air!"  -MST3K
Greg Argendeli, System Administrator ([e-mail])
(bbs) [phone]| (Page) [phone] | (Voice) [phone]
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!anson
From: [e-mail] (Anson Kennedy)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFO CONSPIRACY
Message-ID: <#[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Apr 92 15:25:29 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 12

Argh!

Not more Cooperisms!

Please, make it all go away!
--

Anson Kennedy
Secretary of the Georgia Skeptics (but don't even THINK I speak for them!)

                  "If I had been the Virgin Mary, I would have said 'No.'"
                                      -Margaret "Stevie" Smith (1902-1971)
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!wupost!ukma!widener!beyonet!beyo
From: [e-mail] (Steve Urich)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: UFO info (fwd)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Apr 92 16:52:58 GMT
Organization: Beyonet Network
Lines: 95


    Here is a forwarded message I read on Amatuer Packet Radio. It
    explains how to reach UFO information via different medias.

    Steve

----------------------------Start Forwarded Packet Message
MSG # TR  SIZE TO     FROM   @BBS   DATE    TITLE
 5790 B#  3723 ALL    WD8ARZ ALLBBS 920414 UFO INFO SOURCES
Forwarding path: WB3EUF KA3FMO NO8M WA8BXN WB8LVP W3IXR KA3OEM NM3G
KA3SFC KA2TFC VE3SNP VE3OY VE3FJB VE3IRI

SHORTWAVE FREQUENCY'S, SATELLITE TV, HAM NETS, AND MODEM BBS'S CAN
ALL BE ACCESSED FOR INFO THAT COVER UFO'S AND OTHER RELATED TOPICS.
BOOKS, MAGAZINES, RADIO/TV SHOWS, PERSONAL EXPERIENCES, AND MEETING
SCHEDULES ARE SOME OF THE ITEMS COVERED.  A VCR WILL CAN BE USED WHEN
YOU CANT BE HOME, NOT ONLY TO RECORD THE AUDIO/VIDEO OF THE
SATELLITE, BUT ALSO FOR RECORDING THE AUDIO OF THE SHORTWAVE/HAM
SIGNALS.

SATELLITE: (HOME TVRO SYSTEMS)

SPACENET 1 TRANSPONDER 13 FOR THE 'ET MONITOR' PROGRAM.  SATURDAY
NIGHTS AT MIDNIGHT E.S.T.  ALSO ON SOME CABLE OUTLETS, ESPECIALLY IN
PENNSYLVANIA.

SHORTWAVE:

WWCR "FOR THE PEOPLE" BROADCAST, THE CHUCK HARDER SHOW.
7435 KHZ A.M. MODE AT 8-10 P.M. E.S.T. MONDAY - FRIDAY.

HAM RADIO:

MUFON TRAFFIC NET (FORMAL);

PASSES INFORMATION ABOUT UFO'S AND OTHER RELATED TOPICS EVERY
SATURDAY MORNING AT 8:00 A.M. EST ON 7237 KHZ IN LSB.  MONITOR THIS
NET FOR CHANGES TO OTHER PROGRAMS AND NETS.  YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE A
MEMBER OF ANY UFO GROUP TO PARTICAPATE.  JUST BE A LICENSED HAM FOR
THAT PART OF THE 40 METER BAND.

UFO DISCUSSION NET (INFORMAL);

THIS NET IS A LOOSE ROUNDTABLE OF HAMS THAT RAGCHEW ABOUT UFO'S
AND RELATED ENIGMA'S, ANOMALIES, AND 'IN SEARCH OF' INTERESTS.
THIS NET IS FLEXABLE AND MAY NOT ALWAYS MEET.  FREQUENCY IS
3929 KHZ IN LSB, SATURDAYS, SIGN ON 9 P.M. E.S.T., AND LASTS
UNTIL IT IS DONE, GENERALLY 10 - 12 P.M., BUT HAS LASTED LONGER
ON SOME OCCASIONS.

COMPUTER LANDLINE BBS:

PRODIGY;

HOMELIFE SECTION, OUTDOOR HOBBY, TOPIC UFO.
ARTS SECTION, BOOKS NON FICTION, TOPIC VARIES DEPENDING ON SUBJECT
AND BOOK TITLE. STEP THROUGH THE LISTING.

COMPUSERVE;

UFO CONFERENCE IS NUMBER 10 ON THE ISSUES FORUM LIST. LIBRARY AREAS
EXIST FOR EACH CONFERENCE.  THESE CONTAIN FILES, USUALLY TEXT.
CONTACT MARK HOCHMAN, N1GCR, CI$ ID # 73320,2317 FOR ANY QUESTIONS
ABOUT COMPUSERVE OR THE FIDONET BBS NETWORK.

MANY PRIVATE LANDLINE BULLETIN BOARDS EXIST ACROSS THE NATION.
MOST OF YOUR LOCAL LANDLINE BBS WILL HAVE A LISTING OF SOME OF
THE UFO RELATED ONES THAT WILL LEAD YOU TO OTHERS.

PLEASE PASS ANY TV/SATELLITE/SHORTWAVE/COMPUTER/HAM UFO PROGRAM
SCHEDULES, FREQUENCIES, DATE/TIME, PHONE NUMBERS AND COMPUTER
ACCESS INFORMATION TO ME AND I WILL UPDATE THE LIST FROM TIME
TO TIME IF THE INTEREST EXISTS.

SEND TO:  WD8ARZ @ WD8DWO.MI.USA.NA  ON PACKET
          WBPT61A  ON THE PRODIGY COMPUTER BBS
          OR CATCH ME ON THE HAM UFO NETS.....

ALL OF THESE SATELLITE, SHORTWAVE, AND HAM NETS CAN BE MONITORED
THROUGH OUT MOST OF THE UNITED STATES AND CANADA.

GOOD LUCK, AND MAY YOU FIND ALL YOUR MONITORING INTERESTING.
73, WD8ARZ (BILL) FROM MICHIGAN.........OUT

*** END OF MSG # 5790 from WD8ARZ @ VE3IRI.#CON.ON.CAN.NA.

--
 ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############
 ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA  USA    |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########
 ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############
 ####       #### snark!beyonet!beyo   |when I hit the Screen"  ####       ####
 ##    |_|    ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project  ##    |_|    ##
 ##           ##-----------------------------------------------##           ##
 ####       ####  Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#SEPA.PA.USA.NA  ####       ####
_###############_______________________________________________###############_
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!uw-beaver!pullen
From: [e-mail] (Walter D. Pullen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Me
Summary: Meaning of the universe
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Apr 92 17:29:13 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Washington Computer Science
Lines: 35

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>,
>>[e-mail] writes:
>> The number is 42, but it's not God, it's the answer to the meaning of the
>> universe.  But what the hell's the question ?!!?
>
>For all those who haven't seen Douglas Adams' HITCHIKERS GUIDE TO THE UNIVERSE
>trilogy: after millions of years of calculation by the most powerful computer
>the answer was indeed 42. The question had been forgotten by then, but was
>assumed to be "the meaning of life". To find out the question they travelled
>back in time to observe it being written in the dust by primitive man:
>
>       6       x         8       =           ?

Shouldn't the question be 6 x *7* = ?

Seven, of course, is a better number anyway because of its mystical
properties. Actually, considering that "6" is considered to be the
number of man, and "7" is considered to be the number of God (i.e. as
in 666 and 777), then maybe this question can be interpreted as a
mathematical representation of the ageless question of the interaction
between man and God, between Creation and Creator, between the Yin and
Yang polarities. And of course, the ultimate answer to the meaning of
the universe, is the non-dualistic unity of the polarities, i.e. 6 and
7 combined; hence the answer is 42!!!

(Of course, this is just my interpretation. :)

-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
|     Walter D. "Cruiser1" Pullen     |     [e-mail]     |
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
|   "Who am I, What am I?  As I am, I am not.  But as we are, I AM.  And to   |
-   you my creation, My Perfect Love is your Perfect Freedom. And I will be   -
|   with you forever and ever, until the End, and then forever more." - GOD   |
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!anasaz!qip!john
From: john@anasaz (John Moore)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <1992Apr12.230048.15124@anasaz>
Date: 12 Apr 92 23:00:48 GMT
Organization: Anasazi, Inc. Phoenix, AZ, USA
Lines: 18
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5276 alt.conspiracy:14068 talk.religion.newage:10060 alt.paranormal:4784

Keywords:

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Brian Spolarich) writes:
]> This is from
]>     [e-mail]
]>who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet
]
]
]    Are we a little paranoid?  Time for some Prozac, I think.

Prozac is for depression, not paranoia (or schizophrenia which was
very evident in the quoted posting).


--
John Moore NJ7E, 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale, AZ 85253  (602-951-9326)
[e-mail] ncar!noao!asuvax!anasaz!john anasaz![e-mail]
 - - Support ALL ...erk  glugh   mmpph.... Memory fault (core dumped)
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!wupost!uwm.edu!linac!tellab5!jcj
From: [e-mail] (jcj)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Mach6 spy plane
Keywords: spy ufo plane
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Apr 92 17:34:56 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News)
Organization: Wazmodyne Industries
Lines: 10
Nntp-Posting-Host: sunhc

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (friend) writes:

>... plane reportedly operating out of a remote Scottish
>US air base. The plane had reportedly been tracked at mach 3
>... and reportedly capable of mach 6.

This sounds a little like "Aurora", a very black unmanned
project.  Anybody hear anything more?
--
                [e-mail]
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: galactic ftp sites
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Apr 92 22:29:48 GMT
Organization: Wright State University
Lines: 6



    Does anyone have a list of the newest inter-planetary/inter-glalatic
    ftp sites?

      thanks,  John Prikkel( [e-mail] )
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!boulder!ucsu!cubldr.colorado.edu!crago_l
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: presidential sightings
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 14 Apr 92 23:29:32 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Lines: 13
Nntp-Posting-Host: gold.colorado.edu

Fascinating trivia: on "Now It Can Be Told" Feb. 29, 1992, a report
on UFO sightings by famous people. John Lennon saw one in NYC, as
did Muhammed Ali. Also a recap of the officially reported sighting
by then-Governor of Georgia, later President of US, Jimmy Carter.
Most fascinating was report by Ronald Reagan's personal pilot of a
sighting while in flight by himself and then-Governor of California
Ronald Reagan. According to the pilot it was a multicolored light,
bigger than the full moon, and it paced their plane. Film clips
of three later speeches given publicly by Pres. Reagan during 1988, one
of them to the U.N., in which he repeatedly posed the curious
question, What would all our national defenses be if we were
threatened by "a power from outer space." Interesting that he would
keep bringing it up.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!ucbvax!STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM!lpb
From: [e-mail] (Len Bucuvalas)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: ELECTRONIC IMPLANTS MADE BY HUMANS
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Apr 92 00:13:51 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Lines: 164

Yes that's right .... HUMANS!!! US!!! We are the goddamned enemy, damn it!!!!
Anyone reading this from Paranet or MUFONET...start cruising the other
news groups!!!! Try activism....talk.politics....conspiracy......you will
be amazed at the tidbits of information!!!

Samurai_Writer

ps: I cant get this group so if anyone has anything to add to this please!!
EMAIL ME!!!!! This was posted by Emailing to
[e-mail]



----- Begin Included Message -----
Article 93648 of talk.politics.misc:
Path: stratus!voder!apple!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!ukma!eng.ufl.edu!gnv.ifas.ufl.edu!jrm
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: KIDSCAN - Electronic Big Brother.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Apr 92 03:29:50 GMT
Lines: 52

Chanced upon an episode of that Australian TV show "Beyond 2000" last night
on TDC. I arrived at the tail end of a story about a device called
"KIDSCAN". This appears to be an adaptation of a lab-animal ID tag that
is regularly advertized in the weekly science journals like "AAAS SCIENCE"
and "NATURE". What you have is a tiny glass capsule containing a passive
radio re-transmitter designed to be injected directly under the skin of
the animal. These things are very tiny - looks like maybe 0.75x2.0 mm.
They are designed to derive energy from an RF field and then re-transmit
at another frequency. The transmission contains a multi-digit ID code that
allows each animal to be positively identified.
[I CHANCED UPON AN ARTICLE IN THE SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE THAT DESCRIBED
THE ABOVE DEVICE IN ACTIVE USE IN MARIN COUNTY ON ALL PETS WHOSE OWNERS
ARE WILLING TO HAVE THEM IMPLANTED.  I URGE YOU ALL TO GO AND BUY THE BOOK
"BEHOLD A PALE HORSE" BY WILLIAM COOPER!!...Samurai_Writer]

KIDSCAN is the same principal ... but is being sold as something you have
implanted into your children - for their health and safety according to
the seller. These versions appear to be a little larger and can transmit
for a several block radius. The idea is to have a transmitter/reciever
every few blocks ... kinda like a small cellular phone system. This way,
the exact location of your precious progeny can be tracked every few
minutes and, I suppose, a time-map of your childs activities can be
provided. There is no reason that sensors could not be added to detect
cocaine/reefer/alcohol/nicotine/contraceptive substances/neural and
brain activity etc.. [THIS IS GREAT HUH? WHAT NEXT?!?! JUST SAY ..NO!]

The angle is perfect. It is easy to drive parents to paranoia about their
kids safety. The kids are very much the property of their parents and
suffer diminished rights when it comes to this style of intrusion. Any
half-ass advertizer could concoct some horrific TV commercials demonstrating
how this product can 'save' your child from something. If the price is
right - and technology just gets better and cheaper - they could sell
millions of these things.

Another obvious use is for felons - especially those on parole or out on
bail pending an appeal. Their location, and perhaps their activities,
could be easily monitored. After felons comes the mentally retarded,
altzheimers patients, petty criminals, 'suspicious persons' ... right
down to every single human being. [MY FAMILY ADOPTED A PHRASE I CONCOCTED
AS A CHILD WHEN STUDYING THE CONSTITUTION IN SCHOOL, "BETTER DEAD THAN LED"
AND I STILL BELIEVE THAT EVEN MORE SO TODAY....RECALL THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR!
MEN AN WOMEN WHO WERE WILLING TO SACRIFICE ALL TO ELIMINATE THE ENEMY!]

Masons rule - If it CAN be detected, someone will discover a pressing
reason TO detect it.

Many discount the ability of interested parties to institute anything
resembling a totalitarian system upon the USA. They point to such
failed attempts as the 'War on Drugs', the McCarthy ant-pinko purge etc..
The usual reasoning goes that you would have to have a policeman following
each and every person 24 hours a day to prevent/ensure an activity. Well,
thanks to microelectronics - here is such a policeman. Start with the kids
and the obviously dangerous and then slowly find reasons to expand the
coverage - 'security' being a great catch-all reason.
[NOT ME FOLKS! THE FIRST PERSON TO TRY TO ENFORCE THIS UPON ME OR MINE WILL
BE SURPRISED AT THE RECEPTION THAT PERSON WILL RECEIVE....FREEDOM!!!!!]

Wake-up and smell the coffee people ... technology has made the aspiring
totalitarians job easy !

-- Jim Mason : Standard Disclaimers


Article 93649 of talk.politics.misc:
Path: stratus!voder!apple!mips.mitek.com!convex!convex!linac!att!cbfsb!cbnewsc!rats
From: [e-mail] (Morris the Cat)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.misc
Subject: Re: KIDSCAN - Electronic Big Brother.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 2 Apr 92 16:06:35 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: AT&T
Lines: 64


In <[e-mail]> Jim Mason states:

|The angle is perfect. It is easy to drive parents to paranoia about their
|kids safety. The kids are very much the property of their parents and
|suffer diminished rights when it comes to this style of intrusion. Any
|half-ass advertizer could concoct some horrific TV commercials demonstrating
|how this product can 'save' your child from something. If the price is
|right - and technology just gets better and cheaper - they could sell
|millions of these things.

|Another obvious use is for felons - especially those on parole or out on
|bail pending an appeal. Their location, and perhaps their activities,
|could be easily monitored. After felons comes the mentally retarded,
|altzheimers patients, petty criminals, 'suspicious persons' ... right
|down to every single human being.

|Masons rule - If it CAN be detected, someone will discover a pressing
|reason TO detect it.

|Many discount the ability of interested parties to institute anything
|resembling a totalitarian system upon the USA. They point to such
|failed attempts as the 'War on Drugs', the McCarthy ant-pinko purge etc..
|The usual reasoning goes that you would have to have a policeman following
|each and every person 24 hours a day to prevent/ensure an activity. Well,
|thanks to microelectronics - here is such a policeman. Start with the kids
|and the obviously dangerous and then slowly find reasons to expand the
|coverage - 'security' being a great catch-all reason.

|Wake-up and smell the coffee people ... technology has made the aspiring
|totalitarians job easy !

Supporters of the U.S. "Right to Keep and Bear Arms" have been awake
and smelling the coffee for a long, LONG time.

The electronic monitoring chip idea was proposed by the gun controllers-
anti-RKBA community many years ago. Just recently in a Chicago Tribune
column by the fool Clarence Page, an editor(?), it showed up again.
The anti-RKBA never quits dreaming of new ways to destroy the RKBA
of the masses.

In terms of kids, the latest New Wave Gun Control strategem is the
"Kids & Guns" conumdrum. A near simultaneous growth of news stories
concerning the 'awful' Kids'n Guns combo has hit the news media, as
well as the editorial and op-ed pages and Eye-Nitwit-News TV. These
are given a so-called "air of credibility" by government financed
"studies" released to show the assertion that the "disease" of
guns has "infected" the non-adult community. Further publicity is
given to reinforce the idea of "firearms-infection" by getting
some medical groups such as pediatricians to endorse ballistic weapons
bans, up to and including BB guns.

These have the effect of gun control activists masquerating as "concerned
citizens" passing Bill of Right Free Zones i.e. Gun Free School Zones
and "Child-Firearm-Safety" laws i.e. you are defacto negligent if a
child accidentally shoots another, since the child used your gun and
"Make-Your-Weapon-Useless-Trigger-Lock" laws. Of course, the ultimate
version of this is the Washington, D.C. law which states that having
an assembled firearm in your home is illegal.

And, of course, the whole point of all this is to restrict a person's
right to weapons and usage as much as possible for the moment, for
tommorrow is another day to foist ever-MORE gun controls on the hapless
American citizen.


----- End Included Message -----
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!boulder!ucsu!hoza
From: [e-mail] (HOZA MARK R)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFO CONSPIRACY
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Apr 92 01:13:30 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Lines: 8

I think that this information is accurate, but this is based only on my
intuition and feelings, which have resulted from what I've read in other
places.  I think that what Milton William Cooper has allegedly said is
accurate.  I intend to investigate further, but this is my impression at
this time.  I welcome any leads to information on the subject of UFO's, or
advice for my research.

Mark
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!boulder!ucsu!hoza
From: [e-mail] (HOZA MARK R)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFO CONSPIRACY
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Apr 92 01:50:16 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Lines: 12

I made a call to KVEG am840 radio to ask about the Billy Goodman talk show,
which was mentioned by Milton William Cooper.  They said that they are a
"sports talk show, only."  The person whom I spoke with said, several times,
that their station does not have a "Billy Goodman" talk show at all.

Can someone help me on this issue.  I would like to hear this talk show if it
really exists.  Also, I am in Boulder, CO, and I can't get am840 because
KOA am850 is so strong.  Does anyone know what station I could listen to which
would have the Benny Goodman show in my area (again, if the show exists)?

Thanks,
Mark Hoza
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rice!uw-beaver!pullen
From: [e-mail] (Walter D. Pullen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: The Greys speak.
Summary: Channeled information from the Zeta Reticulum itself.
Keywords: Greys
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Apr 92 00:07:31 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Washington Computer Science
Lines: 87


     For those interested, below is a message from the Reticulian
     extraterrestrials, in which they describe their activities here as
     well as the general introduction of the alien presense to us of Earth.
     (BTW, these Greys presently working with Earth are known as "The
     Facilitators".) I obtained this message from the book "UFO Contact
     from the Pleiades" by Wendelle Stevens. The message was received
     during the evening of 26 August 1981 at Charleston, SC in the form of
     "impressed writing" (i.e. channeling) through which extraterrestrial
     messages are usually transmitted. Stevens said he considered it a
     "remarkable communication" because Billy Meier had received a private
     communication from the Pleiadians earlier which had some of the same
     information concerning video taping of contacts. For those who think
     all aliens communicate in the New Agey manner of the Pleiadians, check
     out the disciplined English style (best read in a fast monotone, not!
     ;-) of our ET visitors from the Reticulum! (The "Network", BTW, refers
     to the Confederation of Planets they belong to.)

BEGINNING OF MESSAGE...

     The ability of the human sociological spectrum to conceptualize
the existence of the phenomena (UFO) and its resultant effect upon the
cultural advancement of human civilization will be made manifest
within a measurable amount of time/space continuum. In accordance with
the eventual purpose of the "Network" consensus, there is ample
communicative formulation in program to maintain "Network" direct
observance (physical contact) in support of mutual contact
involvement. There can be free exchanges of information absolutely
designed to enhance the occurrence of "network" contact and ongoing
monitoring of "Network" subjects. The eldership has determined a
definite relative fundamental multitudinous act of ongoing direct
observance (close encounter) experiments. The data assimilated
regarding the experiments is continually examined by the "Network"
analysts, and the full findings distributed within the "Network"
operations.
     The individual amount of examined data can be verified and
classified within the "Network" Space Center, and is injected for
reference purposes in multicomplex retrieval banks. Upon approval of
the "Network" eldership, the available data is implemented within the
progressional direct observance procedures. There can be no partial
utilization of the assimilated data. The subject involved is then
inculcated with the desired data which is given in either active or
full dormant status (unconscious).
     There must be intense precautions taken to insure there is no
actual resultant vitiation regarding the "Network" subject. The
ability of the "Network" to enunciate the inculcated program to
maintain the continual duality of purpose concerning the contacts is
accomplished through an intact inculcated monitor. The transmittal of
"Network" linguistical symbols is due inpart to enable the subject to
communicate via random transmittal data which will contribute to the
understanding and enhancement of the meaning of the "Network" and the
populace of human civilization. The progressive contacts between the
"Network" and selected "Network" subjects will continue. A plot of
geographical areas involved in direct observance activities is
currently undergoing in in-depth equational analysis. The purpose and
selection will then be considered according to the consensus of the
"Network" eldership. The contact is then initiated.
     Data is then integrated into a "Network" lexicon and the
implication involving the subject are determined. Calculations are
then transmitted throughout the "Network". The "Network"
communications with planetary intergalactic prevalent existent
lifeforms is based upon universal and interuniversal comity.
Recognition of interuniversal principles and organizational thought is
directed primarily towards preservation of the evolutionary spectrum
and the advancement of human civilizations. Interferrance into the
entire direction of the planetary scale of the selected planet is
prohibited... The Pleiadian races have agreed, as have the Council of
Dorado and the Horologium Assembly. The Eldership and other
quadriuniversal representatives are in full and complete agreement
with all tenets of interuniversal comity. The forthcoming observance
of "Network" vehicles will be manifest. The "Network" has monitored
the progress of inculcated data and resultant documentation. The
utilization of laser light amplification devices to initiate activity
with the resultant intention to videotape "Network" vehicles is
considered an allowable activity and will be permitted upon
affirmation that the videotape use is guarded and restricted.

END OF MESSAGE...


-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
|     Walter D. "Cruiser1" Pullen     |     [e-mail]     |
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
|   "Who am I, What am I?  As I am, I am not.  But as we are, I AM.  And to   |
-   you my creation, My Perfect Love is your Perfect Freedom. And I will be   -
|   with you forever and ever, until the End, and then forever more." - GOD   |
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!munnari.oz.au!uunet!boulder!ucsu!hoza
From: [e-mail] (HOZA MARK R)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFO CONSPIRACY
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Apr 92 05:40:41 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <#[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Lines: 20

[e-mail] (Anson Kennedy) writes:

>Argh!

>Not more Cooperisms!

>Please, make it all go away!
>--

>Anson Kennedy
>Secretary of the Georgia Skeptics (but don't even THINK I speak for them!)

>                  "If I had been the Virgin Mary, I would have said 'No.'"
>                                      -Margaret "Stevie" Smith (1902-1971)

Oh, you Ninnie!  I'm no "Cooperism"!  I'm YOUR WORST NIGHTMARE!!!!

Hahahahahaa!

Just take a big breath and everything will be all right. ;)
Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!metro!seagoon.newcastle.edu.au!cc.newcastle.edu.au!ccasm
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Me
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Apr 92 04:01:48 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Lines: 31

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Walter D. Pullen) writes:
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>>In article <[e-mail]>,
>>>[e-mail] writes:
>>> The number is 42, but it's not God, it's the answer to the meaning of the
>>> universe.  But what the hell's the question ?!!?
>>
>>For all those who haven't seen Douglas Adams' HITCHIKERS GUIDE TO THE UNIVERSE
>>trilogy: after millions of years of calculation by the most powerful computer
>>the answer was indeed 42. The question had been forgotten by then, but was
>>assumed to be "the meaning of life". To find out the question they travelled
>>back in time to observe it being written in the dust by primitive man:
>>
>>       6       x         8       =           ?
>
> Shouldn't the question be 6 x *7* = ?
>
> ...crap deleted....
>
> hence the answer is 42!!!
>
> (Of course, this is just my interpretation. :)
>

Cheez! Some people are so serious they never see the irony !!!!
Perhaps you could also have posted that the answer was wrong, = 48, not 42 :-)
This point in Douglas Adam's (fictional) book was the futility of it all and
the meaningless need to ask such pointless questions, like the one you just
asked.  0 0
         U
        \_/
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!garys
From: [e-mail] (Gary Stollman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Apr 92 10:49:23 GMT
References: <1992Apr12.230048.15124@anasaz>
Sender: [e-mail] (BBS Login)
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Lines: 30
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5286 alt.conspiracy:14086 talk.religion.newage:10061 alt.paranormal:4787

john@anasaz (John Moore) writes:

> Keywords:
>
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail].u
> ]> This is from
> ]>     [e-mail]
> ]>who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet
> ]
> ]
> ]    Are we a little paranoid?  Time for some Prozac, I think.
>
> Prozac is for depression, not paranoia (or schizophrenia which was
> very evident in the quoted posting).
>
>
> --
> John Moore NJ7E, 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale, AZ 85253  (602-951-9326)
> [e-mail] ncar!noao!asuvax!anasaz!john anasaz![e-mail]
>  - - Support ALL ...erk  glugh   mmpph.... Memory fault (core dumped)

*****
Don't make diagnosises unless you are a trained professional...I an't
crazy, and you ain't no judge of humanity...

        Gary

 This is from
     [e-mail]
who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!decwrl!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!draco!orion!stimpsn
From: [e-mail] (Gary Stimpson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: UFO Magazine.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Apr 92 16:58:45 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (BBS Account)
Organization: The Orion Unix System [A/UX 2.0.1], Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Lines: 9

Thanks for the address, Michael (Corbin).  I just need one more question
answered.  How much does it cost to subscribe (American $$'s)?

Thanks,
Gary

--
[e-mail] (Gary Stimpson)
The Orion Unix System [A/UX 2.0.1], Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!bradford.ac.uk!K.Haigh-Hutchinson
From: [e-mail] (K.HAIGH-HUTCHINSON)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Meaning of Life
Keywords: 42, Meaning of Life, Hitchhikers Guide to the Universe
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Apr 92 16:07:24 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: Mrs. K. Haigh-Hutchinson
Organization: University of Bradford, UK
Lines: 18
Originator: s1497@asic
Nntp-Posting-Host: asic.brad.ac.uk

Actually the question on the Scrabble board was 6 x 9.

Now this does not equal 42 so this convinces Arthur there is something
fundamentally wrong with the Universe.

A friend of mine pointed out that it 6 x 9 does equal 42 in base 13.

(4 * 13) + 2 = 54 so 42 in base 13 = 6 x 9 in base 10

My own question now
Interesting that the answer was in base 13 and was intended for the mice
(They paid for the computer remember)

Do we humans dislike 13 so much because it subconsciously reminds us that
the mice are in charge?

K.Haigh-Hutchinson
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!tulane!rouge!pgf
From: [e-mail] (Phil G. Fraering)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Me
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Apr 92 18:18:41 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Anonymous NNTP Posting)
Organization: Univ. of Southwestern Louisiana
Lines: 51

[e-mail] writes:

>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Walter D. Pullen) writes:
>> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>>>In article <[e-mail]>,
>>>>[e-mail] writes:
>>>> The number is 42, but it's not God, it's the answer to the meaning of the
>>>> universe.  But what the hell's the question ?!!?
>>>
>>>For all those who haven't seen Douglas Adams' HITCHIKERS GUIDE TO THE UNIVERSE
>>>trilogy: after millions of years of calculation by the most powerful computer
>>>the answer was indeed 42. The question had been forgotten by then, but was
>>>assumed to be "the meaning of life". To find out the question they travelled
>>>back in time to observe it being written in the dust by primitive man:
>>>
>>>       6       x         8       =           ?
>>
>> Shouldn't the question be 6 x *7* = ?
>>
>> ...crap deleted....
>>
>> hence the answer is 42!!!
>>
>> (Of course, this is just my interpretation. :)
>>

>Cheez! Some people are so serious they never see the irony !!!!
>Perhaps you could also have posted that the answer was wrong, = 48, not 42 :-)
>This point in Douglas Adam's (fictional) book was the futility of it all and
>the meaningless need to ask such pointless questions, like the one you just
>asked.  0 0
>         U
>        \_/


Not really. In Base 13,

6 x 7 = 42.

The Universe operates in base 13.

That's why everyone's luck is messed up.



--
Phil Fraering [e-mail] 318/365-5418
"I'm a personal visionary. I can see into the future, only way off
to the side." - Stephen Wright
"How about a dragon that breathes neutrons instead of fire?  Kills the
elves, leaves the buildings intact..." - Nick Szabo
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!csn!boulder!happy.colorado.edu!kskelm
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: galactic ftp sites
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Apr 92 17:08:13 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (The Daily Planet)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Lines: 13
Nntp-Posting-Host: excel.colorado.edu

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>     Does anyone have a list of the newest inter-planetary/inter-glalatic
>     ftp sites?
>
    my favorite is

    hooman.antares.m32.gov

    don't use 'anonymous', use 'schmuck', and be sure to include
your planetary designation with your mailname in the password.

>       thanks,  John Prikkel( [e-mail]

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!news.bbn.com!noc.near.net!mars.caps.maine.edu!maine.maine.edu!io10081
From: [e-mail] (The Xanadian)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: ELECTRONIC IMPLANTS MADE BY HUMANS
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Apr 92 17:40:22 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Maine System
Lines: 14

<A guy talks about these implants>

Now something has just occurred to me... and it may belong in talk.religion.
misc, but here goes:

I read in a book about the Antichrist a looong time ago <I think the title
was 'The Late Great Planet Earth'> about how the Antichrist would have each
human being tagged with this '666' number.

Could it *be*, that this microelectronic tracking device is the predecessor
to the 'number'?  The way 'Samurai_Writer' put it, it would seem, to me,
that it, in fact, *is*.

OK, enough palaver for now.  *grin*
Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!vjmurphy
From: [e-mail] (Phred T. Platypus)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: The Greys speak
Message-ID: <g-zj![e-mail]>
Date: 15 Apr 92 19:27:21 GMT
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Lines: 121


>     all aliens communicate in the New Agey manner of the Pleiadians, check
>     out the disciplined English style (best read in a fast monotone, not!
              ^^^^^^^^^^^
    I think "tortured" would be a better word.

    As a public service, I have simplified the wordiness in the message.
 You would think that the aliens would have taken basic English
 courses.  I guess not.  Of course, I do not believe in this stuff
 at all.

>BEGINNING OF MESSAGE...

>     The ability of the human sociological spectrum to conceptualize
>the existence of the phenomena (UFO) and its resultant effect upon the
>cultural advancement of human civilization will be made manifest
>within a measurable amount of time/space continuum. In accordance with
>
    The effect of UFOs on people's beliefs and culture will soon
 be apparent.

>the eventual purpose of the "Network" consensus, there is ample
>communicative formulation in program to maintain "Network" direct
>observance (physical contact) in support of mutual contact
>involvement. There can be free exchanges of information absolutely

    We should meet the aliens soon.

>designed to enhance the occurrence of "network" contact and ongoing
>monitoring of "Network" subjects. The eldership has determined a
>definite relative fundamental multitudinous act of ongoing direct

   We will keep abducting the same people.

>observance (close encounter) experiments. The data assimilated
>regarding the experiments is continually examined by the "Network"
>analysts, and the full findings distributed within the "Network"
>operations.

    We've told others about our experiments.

>     The individual amount of examined data can be verified and
>classified within the "Network" Space Center, and is injected for
>reference purposes in multicomplex retrieval banks. Upon approval of
>the "Network" eldership, the available data is implemented within the
>progressional direct observance procedures. There can be no partial

    The data is now at the intergalactic library.

>utilization of the assimilated data. The subject involved is then
>inculcated with the desired data which is given in either active or
>full dormant status (unconscious).

    We plant info in the minds of the abductees.

>     There must be intense precautions taken to insure there is no
>actual resultant vitiation regarding the "Network" subject. The
>ability of the "Network" to enunciate the inculcated program to
>maintain the continual duality of purpose concerning the contacts is
>accomplished through an intact inculcated monitor. The transmittal of

     Make sure you don't hurt the abductee.

>"Network" linguistical symbols is due inpart to enable the subject to
>communicate via random transmittal data which will contribute to the
>understanding and enhancement of the meaning of the "Network" and the
>populace of human civilization. The progressive contacts between the
>
    The abductee will tell people this info a bit at a time.

>"Network" and selected "Network" subjects will continue. A plot of
>
    We will keep abducting the same people.  I think they already
 said this.


>geographical areas involved in direct observance activities is
>currently undergoing in in-depth equational analysis. The purpose and
>selection will then be considered according to the consensus of the
>"Network" eldership. The contact is then initiated.

    Point to a map - pick a person in that area.

>     Data is then integrated into a "Network" lexicon and the
>implication involving the subject are determined. Calculations are
>then transmitted throughout the "Network". The "Network"
>communications with planetary intergalactic prevalent existent
>lifeforms is based upon universal and interuniversal comity.

   Take notes.

>Recognition of interuniversal principles and organizational thought is
>directed primarily towards preservation of the evolutionary spectrum
>and the advancement of human civilizations. Interferrance into the
>entire direction of the planetary scale of the selected planet is
>prohibited... The Pleiadian races have agreed, as have the Council of
>Dorado and the Horologium Assembly. The Eldership and other
>quadriuniversal representatives are in full and complete agreement
>with all tenets of interuniversal comity. The forthcoming observance

   The Prime Directive: Don't mess with the civilization.

>of "Network" vehicles will be manifest. The "Network" has monitored
>the progress of inculcated data and resultant documentation. The
>
   We've read your notes.

>utilization of laser light amplification devices to initiate activity
>with the resultant intention to videotape "Network" vehicles is
>considered an allowable activity and will be permitted upon
>affirmation that the videotape use is guarded and restricted.

   Pictures and video allowed.

   Boy, think of all the psychic energy the aliens could have
 conserved.
--
"You ask me if sex is one of the most  _\_\    _/_/     Phred Platypus
 important things in life?  Absolutely. _\_\  _/_/  Grammarian of Vengeance
 But the lack of it is even likelier     _\_\_/_/ [ [e-mail] ]
 to drive you nuts." -- Harlan Ellison    _\_/       Vincent J. Murphy
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!ames!bionet!raven.alaska.edu!acad2.alaska.edu!asljl
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space
Subject: THE FEDERATIONERS HAVEN'T DIED!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Apr 92 17:37:34 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Alaska
Lines: 25
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5293 sci.space:29054
Nntp-Posting-Host: acad2.alaska.edu


Hi Remeber when a person put a note about a group wanting to go to the moon?
Yes they are still alive and well. They amazingly enough, have recieved
a lot of support from varying outlying areas. such as M.I.T < a group there has
been corresponding with them, Florida, amd Southern California. As it
stands now they are in the process of making the blue prints to finance
the project the spokeof earlier. For those of you who do not know what i am
talking about, the group is working on a way to get to space with out the
assitance of nasa. The project is trying to create a drive crystal that if
succesful will go beyond using rocket fuel. It's a long description. I think it
could work. For those who are interested in an up date. The Dream is trying to
do a push up. It's been on its face for some time now but as about three weeks
ago it has been trying to do a push up. The project has been working on a
way to finance this little jewel and they may have found a way.
  In trying to think on how to create money for it. they deicied to create
2 microelectronic gagdets, These, if a patent is granted, may create the money
we need to build  the drive engine to get off this planet. Yes I am well a ware
of how this sounds. but one can hope and dream. At any rate I have written
you all to see if any one of you are interested and to show that the group has
not died.   I hope that there are still some interested souls out there
who long for the stars and are interested in the group working on going
there. With out Nasa or the governments help.

Yes the person writing this is none other than I, Lady Rhavyn.
Remember, Free will is the good of the cosmos, and may the force be with you!
Path: ns-mx!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!Malfera
From: [e-mail] (Dan M Healy)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Pheidians and Greys....
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Apr 92 22:14:30 GMT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 11

Maybe the Greys wouldn't want to use a computer simulatation
because us humans are just so damn lovable.  :)








                [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!ukma!widener!beyonet!beyo
From: [e-mail] (Steve Urich)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFO meeting in Berlin
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Apr 92 00:34:30 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Beyonet Network
Lines: 48


[e-mail] (Clark Matthews) writes:
[...]
=> > Virgil Armstrong,   USA,    Sponsor, as secret service
=> >                             officer he works
=> >                             on the recovery of the first
=> >                             UFO, found 1948 in
=> >                             the USA.
=>
=>Meiner Erinnerung nach, war Armstrong Astronaut in der fruehern Tagen des US Space Program.  Ich habe nichts von seiner Roswell-Aktivitaeten gehoert.  Sind Sie sicher, dass diesen Mann gutglaeubig ist?  Entw. echt Astronaut od. echt Roswellzeuge?

    Woher haste dass gelesen dass der Virgil ein weltraumfahrer war?
    Ich glaube nicht dass Virgil Armstrong erst ein `Secret Service' agent
    wahr und dann blotzlich seinem beruf verandert. :-)


=>[To our American listeners -- I'm wondering if *anyone* has heard of Virgil Armstrong's involvement in the Roswell case?  I've never heard of this guy.  Could it be a *different* Virgil Armstrong?

    Different? Sounds like too much magic "UH-HUH" ingredient to me :-).
    If he was in the Secret Service its probably a phoney name.
    There was a Neal Armstrong and I think a Virgil Armstrong that were
    Astronauts. I vaguely remember Virgil (Astronaut) Armstrong, didn't
    he die in a fire accident on the ground while they were waiting for
    lift off?

=>Best,
=>  Clark

    BTW Clark, have you heard of Jim Schaffer lately? If he calls your
    BBS tell him I said hello. I haven't seen him around for a couple
    months now. I tried sending you mail before but I don't remember
    if it bounced or that you couldn't send mail thru the fido gate
    gismo or whatever.

Steve

    PS Did you ever get anything back from that Book Brokers in Florida???


--
 ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############
 ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA  USA    |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########
 ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############
 ####       #### snark!beyonet!beyo   |when I hit the Screen"  ####       ####
 ##    |_|    ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project  ##    |_|    ##
 ##           ##-----------------------------------------------##           ##
 ####       ####  Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#SEPA.PA.USA.NA  ####       ####
_###############_______________________________________________###############_
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!uwm.edu!linac!att!rutgers!psuvax1!psuvm!ccb104
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFO meeting in Berlin
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Apr 92 01:45:55 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: HAM - Hackers Against MUDs
Lines: 1
X-Subliminal-Message: IBM/370 assembler is your friend.

Don't you mean Virgil "Gus" Grissom(SP?)?
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!anasaz!qip!john
From: john@anasaz (John Moore)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <1992Apr16.003806.4972@anasaz>
Date: 16 Apr 92 00:38:06 GMT
Organization: Anasazi, Inc. Phoenix, AZ, USA
Lines: 18
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5297 alt.conspiracy:14127 talk.religion.newage:10069 alt.paranormal:4790

Keywords:

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Gary Stollman) writes:
]> Prozac is for depression, not paranoia (or schizophrenia which was
]> very evident in the quoted posting).
]
]*****
]Don't make diagnosises unless you are a trained professional...I an't
]crazy, and you ain't no judge of humanity...

If you believe what you are posting, you are indeed crazy, but it would of
course be hard to convince you of that.

--
John Moore NJ7E, 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale, AZ 85253  (602-951-9326)
[e-mail] ncar!noao!asuvax!anasaz!john anasaz![e-mail]
 - - If a field of study has the word "science" in it - it isn't a science - -
 - - Support ALL of the bill of rights, INCLUDING the 2nd amendment! - -
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!munnari.oz.au!metro!seagoon.newcastle.edu.au!cc.newcastle.edu.au!ccasm
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Me
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Apr 92 05:53:51 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Newcastle, AUSTRALIA
Lines: 54

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Phil G. Fraering) writes:
> [e-mail] writes:
>
>>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Walter D. Pullen) writes:
>>> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>>>>In article <[e-mail]>,
>>>>>[e-mail] writes:
>>>>> The number is 42, but it's not God, it's the answer to the meaning of the
>>>>> universe.  But what the hell's the question ?!!?
>>>>
>>>>For all those who haven't seen Douglas Adams' HITCHIKERS GUIDE TO THE UNIVERSE
>>>>trilogy: after millions of years of calculation by the most powerful computer
>>>>the answer was indeed 42. The question had been forgotten by then, but was
>>>>assumed to be "the meaning of life". To find out the question they travelled
>>>>back in time to observe it being written in the dust by primitive man:
>>>>
>>>>       6       x         8       =           ?
>>>
>>> Shouldn't the question be 6 x *7* = ?
>>>
>>> ...crap deleted....
>>>
>>> hence the answer is 42!!!
>>>
>>> (Of course, this is just my interpretation. :)
>>>
>
>>Cheez! Some people are so serious they never see the irony !!!!
>>Perhaps you could also have posted that the answer was wrong, = 48, not 42 :-)
>>This point in Douglas Adam's (fictional) book was the futility of it all and
>>the meaningless need to ask such pointless questions, like the one you just
>>asked.  0 0
>>         U
>>        \_/
>
>
> Not really. In Base 13,
>
> 6 x 7 = 42.

NOT quite!

  6base13 x 7base13  = 33 base 13 (= 42base10)

>
> The Universe operates in base 13.
>
> That's why everyone's luck is messed up.
>
>
I liked your explanation of 6x9=42 better,.. where 54base10 = 42base13
sorry.:-)

Big Al.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!usc!chaph.usc.edu!royander
From: [e-mail] (Roy Anderson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.stupidity,alt.exploding.kibo
Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Apr 92 06:52:52 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Roy Anderson)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Roy Anderson)
Distribution: ca
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Lines: 92
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NNTP-Posting-Host: sal-sun109.usc.edu


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (G.Argendeli-Sysop) writes:
|> [e-mail] (Jeffrey Klein) writes:
|>
|> > In article <smedley.702576727@milton> [e-mail] (Willia
|> > >[e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:
|> > >
|> > >>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Roger Lee) writes:
|> > >>>In <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
|> > >>>
|> > >>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Pa
|> > >>>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
|> > >>>>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
|> > >>>>>>>In article <[e-mail]> waldbyjf@NeXTwo
|> > >>>>>>>>In article <[e-mail]>
|> > >>>>>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
|> > >>>>>>>>> [e-mail] (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes:
|> > >>>>>>>>> >In article <[e-mail]>
|> > >>>>>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
|> > >>>>>>>>> >>[e-mail] (Kevin L. McBride) writes:
|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>[e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> In article <[e-mail]>
|> > >>>>>>>>[e-mail] (barry.o.olson) writes:
|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >In article <[e-mail]>,
|> > >>>>>>>>[e-mail] (Russ Taylor) writes:
|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (J
|> > >>>>>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes:
|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed]
|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS.
|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper.
|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH.  I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOUL
|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*.
|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but on
|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents?  A thousand-degree flame on you!
|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!)
|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth?
|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich
|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width.
|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it?
|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it
|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it.
|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor
|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor
|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer.
|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE?  PLEASE EXERC
|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT.
|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>Okay.
|> > >>>>>>>>> >>    Come on guys, I think he means it.  Don't follow up to this.
|> > >>>>>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious.
|> > >>>>>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up.
|> > >>>>>>>>> >Or kill me.
|> > >>>>>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess.
|> > >>>>>>>>Shhhh!
|> > >>>>>>>>> >[e-mail]
|> > >>>>>>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming  305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA
|> > >>>>>>>>> >(  the  nonibo  -ibo  )  [phone] [home]  [phone] [of
|> > >>>>>>>>>     No!  Don't follow up to this!  Whatever you do, _don't_ press
|> > >>>>>>>>> that "f" button!  It's a sin!  It's a sin!  This is against the god
|> > >>>>>>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly!  See what you do!  You waste a
|> > >>>>>>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens!  Nay, until the
|> > >>>>>>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the
|> > >>>>>>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up!  My
|> > >>>>>>>>> _GOD_!  How can you even think it!  How can you dream it and still
|> > >>>>>>>>> remain sane?!?!?  How can it be?!?!?!?!  Gah!!!!
|> > >>>>>>>>> [e-mail]      | The meek shall inherit the earth,
|> > >>>>>>>>> [e-mail] |     and the wise keep moving on...
|> > >>>>>>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156     O    |------------------------------------
|> > >>>>>>>>>  Amherst, NY  14226      +    |Ask me about the Secret Society!  Sh
|> > >>>>>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion?  I
|> > >>>>>>>>missed the earlier parts.
|> > >>>>>>There.  No more wasted "Bandwidth"
|> > >>>>>Huh?
|> > >>>>Duh!
|> > >>>NOT!
|> > >>Got.
|> > >Gott.
|> > What?
|> Je Ne Comprends Pas.... Pas!
Paass the pepper, salty!








|>
|> ---
|> "By this time, my lungs were aching for air!"  -MST3K
|> Greg Argendeli, System Administrator ([e-mail])
|> (bbs) [phone]| (Page) [phone] | (Voice) [phone]
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!att!fang!tarpit!bilver!dona
From: [e-mail] (Don Allen)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.drugs,alt.conspiracy,misc.headlines,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: EXPOSE: Rockefeller Syndicate - Secret Govt pt 1 (53K)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Apr 92 04:01:50 GMT
Organization: W. J. Vermillion - Winter Park, FL
Lines: 908
Xref: ns-mx alt.activism:24249 alt.drugs:25132 alt.conspiracy:14134 misc.headlines:21392 alt.alien.visitors:5300



This text is being posted with the intent to EDUCATE those of you who
know not the silent and pervasive influence of your hidden masters. Some
have looked for shadows of the old illuminati; they look amiss, not seeing
that which is all around them. If you know not the "who" and the "why",
efforts will be mis-directed. This is NOT a "conspiracy"..nay, it is a
very cold and calculated NETWORK of individuals whose intent is nothing
short of implementation of a "New World Order"; an oligarchic rein in which
*you* serve as little more that slaves in their "technocracy". This network
has every intention to implement a cashless society, for it is they who
control every aspect of finance and banking over the entire globe. They
have had about 100 years to perfect their plans and put them into practice.

Please understand that the Bilderbergers, the Council on Foreign Relations,
the Tri-lateral Commission,the Institute for Policy Studies, the Roundtables,
the "Club of Rome",etc are ALL bound by common denominators of long-standing
families ties, and interests and come together as a _single_ policy making
body that is known today as "The Committee of 300" . This has also been
known as "The Olympians", the "Policy Committee".

Don't be mis-led by labels such as "Rockefeller" or "Rothschild"; for these
are simply the families who have the mechanisms of control already set in
place,but of themselves are not the entire network; that being the
"Committee of 300". It is THEY who control the UN, who tell the heads of
nations "when to jump and how high", they who are behind the world's illicit
drug trade via the CIA and the old British East India links. They who
manage the IMF,set policy at GATT conferences. It is they who ARE the
"Shadow Government". It is they who manage the CIA,NSA,DIA..the same
group that took out JFK and have MURDERED around 173 people in their efforts
to suppress the truth about all the links..they who were behind the
assassination of RFK,MLK..they who are behind the suppression of truth
regarding the MIA's; It is the same group behind E. Howard Hunt,
John Singlaub, Ollie North..the very same group who brought down Richard
Nixon in Watergate..the same group behind the persecution of the Christic
Institute..the same people who were behind Nugan-Hand..the same group
that groomed Jimmy Carter for the Presidency..the same group who ARE
the "Military-Industrial complex", the same group behind the total
militarization of NASA..the same group who ARE "MJ-12", were behind the
"Jason Group"..the same behind Project Blue Book, The Condon Committee,
the same who started up the NSA..who are responsible for the MURDER of
Danny Casalaro..the same group responsible for the world-wide DISINFO
campaign regarding the TRUTH of UFO sightings and contacts. The very
SAME group who OWN THE MEDIA..ie..The Washington Post, NBC (General
Electric),ABC,CBS,The New York Times,etc. The same group behind the
the Warren Commission,ad nauseum..

I DO believe I could make a DIRECT connection here with just what
CIABASE says on WACKENHUT that also ties in the Shadow Government
with UFO related installations; this is but *ONE* connection..there
are many,many more that can be and will be ferreted out for exposure.



===== Begin Included article =============================================


Message #6041 - INFO.PARANET
   Date : 16-Jan-92 19:46
   From : Don Ecker
     To : John Galt
Subject : Wackenhut
John Galt said:

 > Wackenhut Corp., one of the nation's largest security firms, said Friday
 > it has bought the U.S. security operations of ISS International Service
 > System Inc.  The purchase price was not disclosed.  ISS International
 > has more than 700 employees in its U.S. security operations, primarily
 > in Jacksonville, Los Angeles, Dallas, Atlanta, Cleveland and
 > Chattanooga, Tenn.

In several investigations that I am currently involved in for UFO Magazine as
well as my radio show "UFOs Tonite", I have come across the Wackenhut
connection. As many of you may know, Wackenhut is responsible for outside
security around Area 51 and site S-4. Last year there was a helicopter crash
in Las Vegas that killed a number of Wackenhut employees, plus they are
involved in the Inslaw scandel. At any rate much more than I can go into here.
However************

I checked CIABASE and came up with the following. Incidently, all sources are
available for the following information if requested.

Read and contemplate.

*****************************************************************************

CIABASE FILES
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

CONFLICT, LI

  PERU,  88-91  PRIVATE SECURITY CORPORATION FORMING IMPORTANT ROLE
  IN LIC-DRUG OPERATIONS. FROM 1981-91, PERUVIAN SECURITY CORPORATIONS
  INCREASED FROM 80 TO 350, PLUS 150 UNOFFICIAL ORGANIZATIONS. AMONG
  THOSE IS WACKENHUT CORP, WHOSE EMPLOYEES CONSIST OF MANY EX-CIA,
  DEA, FBI MEMBERS. Z 11/90 87

DOMESTIC OP

  CHILE, CUBA. WACKENHUT CORP OF CORAL GABLES, FLORIDA. PROVIDES
  SECURITY SYSTEMS THRUOUT WORLD. INMAN WAS DIRECTOR OF CORP PLUS
  OTHER INFLUENTIAL PERSONS IN  80  WACKENHUT WORKED CLOSELY WITH
  S. CALIFORNIA'S CABAZON INDIANS AND THEIR TRIBAL ADMINISTRATOR
  JOHN PHILIP NICHOLS. NICHOLS PER NEWS ARTICLE, BOASTED RE ATTEMPTED
  ASSASSINATION CASTRO AND SUCCESSFUL ASSASSINATION OF SALVADOR ALLENDE.
  WACKENHUT/CABAZON CONNECTION OF PARTICULAR INTEREST TO D. CASOLARO
  WHO DIED IN W.VIRGINIA IN  91  HE ALSO INVESTIGATING OCTOBER SURPRISE
  AND INSLAW. MICHAEL RICONOSCIUTO - A WEAPONS-SYSTEM DESIGNER AND
  SOFTWARE SPECIALIST - WAS DIR OF A RESEARCH PROJECT OF WACKENHUT/CABAZON
  JOINT VENTURE. IN EARLY 80s AFFIDAVIT SAID HE MODIFIED A STOLEN
  PROMIS SOFTWARE FOR FOREIGN SALES. OTHER INFO ON WACKENHUT. ITT
  9/24/81 4-5

  FOR EIGHT YEARS INSLAW BATTLING JUSTICE DEPT FOR POSSESSION OF
  PROMIS, A SOFT-WARE PROGRAM DEVELOPED BY COMPANY OWNER BILL HAMILTON.
  IN 91  INSLAW WENT PUBLIC AND ALLEGED REAGAN JUSTICE DEPT, AFTER IT
  HAD STOLEN PROMIS, TURNED IT OVER TO EARL BRIAN. INSLAW ALLEGES
  SOFTWARE GIVEN BRIAN AS PAYBACK FOR BRIAN'S HELP IN ARRANGING ARMS-FOR-
HOSTAGE DEAL WITH IRAN IN 1980 (OCTOBER SURPRISE). PER HAMILTON, BRIAN, WHO
RUNS UPI, ALLEGEDLY MARKETED PROMIS TO INTEL AGENCIES OF ISRAEL, JORDAN, IRAQ,
CANADA, SOUTH KOREA, LIBYA, ENGLAND, GERMANY, FRANCE, AUSTRALIA, THAILAND,
JAPAN, CHILE, GUATEMALA, AND BRAZIL. PER INSLAW, ONCE SOFTWARE USED BY FOREIGN
INTEL SERVICES, NATIONAL SECURITY AGENCY (NSA) ABLE INFILTRATE COMPUTERIZED
INTEL FILES THOSE COUNTRIES. MODIFICATIONS TO PROMIS ALLEGEDLY DONE BY
WACKENHUT CORP. OF CORAL GABLES, FL. HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE INVESTIGATING
SCANDAL SINCE 89. ATTORNEY GENERAL THORNBURG, UNDER SUPOENA, RELEASED
INSLAW-RELATED FILES - BUT 15 TO 20 FILES MISSING. ITT 9/10/91 4-5

  STORY OF DANNY CASOLARO - WHO HAD BEEN SORTING THRU THE S&L DEBACLE,
  BCCI, IRAN-CONTRA, CONTRA-CONNECTED WACKENHUT CORP., WACKENHUT-CONNECTED
  INSLAW CASE AND INSLAW-CONNECTED "OCTOBER SURPRISE." ITT 9/10/91
  4-5

LIAISON

  INSLAW PRES BILL HAMILTON SAYS HE HAS INFO THAT PROMIS ILLEGALLY
  SOLD TO SOUTH KOREA, LIBYA, JORDAN, GREAT BRITAIN (ENGLAND), GERMANY,
  FRANCE, AUSTRALIA, THAILAND, JAPAN, CHILE, GUATEMALA, BRAZIL, AND
  CANADA. CANADIAN COMPANY, COMMUNICATIONS CANADA - THE CANADIAN
  WORKPLACE AUTOMATION RESEARCH CENTER (CWARC) WROTE INSLAW A LETTER.
  ROYAL CANADIAN MOUNTED POLICE ARE OPERATING PROMIS IN 900 LOCATIONS.
  MICHAEL RICONOSCIUTO SWORE IN AN AFFIDAVIT THAT WHEN HE DIRECTOR
  OF WACKENHUT CORP OF CORAL GABLES, FL ONE OF HIS JOBS TO ADAPT
  PROMIS SOFTWARE. PETER VIDENIEKS AND EARL W. BRIAN WERE FREQUENT
  VISITORS TO WACKENHUT. RICONOSCIUTO SAID HE TO MODIFY PROMIS FOR
  IMPLEMENTATION IN LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTEL AGENCIES WORLDWIDE.
  AFTER TESTIFYING BEFORE HOUSE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE INVESTIGATORS,
  RICONOSCIUTO ARRESTED AND CHARGED WITH SELLING MORE THAN 4 GRAMS
  OF POTENT SPEED. ITT 6/11/91 11-13

END OF FILE ---------------------------
---------------------------------------------------

If you notice the name INMAN in the above, that is Adm. Bobby Inman recently
mentioned in Tim Good's book "Alien Liason" and the subject of the January
1992 rebuttal of Bob Oechsler in the MUFON Journel.

Best:

Don Ecker
Director Research
UFO Magazine

--- FD 1.99c
 * Origin: ParaNet Alpha-Delta The Data Base (9:1012/3.0)

===End of included article=================================================

Also here's something from last year on the ultra secret Bilderberg
meeting..what motivations and policies do you think that THEY
follow?

-----Begin included text---------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Gary Campe ext )
Newsgroups: alt.activism,talk.politics.misc,misc.headlines
Subject: BILDERBERG ANNUAL MEETING SCHEDULED
Message-ID: <13155@fpssun>
Date: 22 Apr 91 17:56:38 GMT
References: The Spotlight
Sender: daemon@fpssun
Organization: FPS Computing, Beaverton, Oregon
Lines: 23


Ad as it appears in The Spotlight dated April 22, 1991:

JUNE 7-9 - Bilderberg group meets secretly at Baden-Baden, Germany.

Members will fly into Frankfurt, Germany or Stasbourg, France to be taken
in government helicopters to a heavily guarded hotel near Baden-Baden, site
of secret meeting of world's elite.  Agenda items include exploiting Middle
East oil and progress toward world government.  For information, call
David Rocefeller at [phone] or his personal valet, Dr. Henry
Kissinger at [phone].

                            ******************

Have any of you been invited?



--
     RE-ELECT        "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence - it
      NO-ONE!        is force.  Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and
    ==========       a fearful master" -- George Washington.
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are mine alone and not that of my employer.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From: [e-mail] (Gary Campe ext )
Newsgroups: misc.headlines,talk.politics.misc,alt.conspiracy
Subject: Bilderberg Annual Meeting - What was said
Message-ID: <14096@fpssun>
Date: 28 Jun 91 17:48:41 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Followup-To: misc.headlines
Distribution: usa
Organization: FPS Computing, Beaverton, Oregon
Lines: 42

This information was reported in the June 24, 1991 issue of "THE SPOTLIGHT".

This is not the entire article, only the highlights.  If you would like to
read this article in its entirety please refer to the above publication.

                        ----------------------------

The word out of the Bilderberg annual meeting is that there will be another
war within the next five years.

It was repeatedly stated at the Bilderberg meeting that there will be
"other Saddams" in the years ahead who must be dealt with swiftly and
efficiently.

The Bilderberg group plans a global army at the disposal of the United
Nations.  It is their hope that the U.N. will become the world government
by the year 2000.

"A U.N. army must be able to act immediately, anywhere in the world, without
delays involved in each country making its own decision whether to
participate, based on parochial considerations," said Henry Kissinger.

If Americans can be persuaded to surrender warmaking decisions to the U.N.,
"parochial nationalism" in Briton, France and elsewhere will disappear,
Bilderberg speakers said.

"The Persian Gulf venture has advanced the cause by years" one speaker said.


                        ----------------------------

So there you have it, the "One Worlders" are still alive and well.

Garry

--
     RE-ELECT        "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence - it
      NO-ONE!        is force.  Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and
    ==========       a fearful master" -- George Washington.
Disclaimer: The opinions expressed are mine alone and not that of my employer.


---End included text---------------------------------------------------------


The following is on the historical perspective of just the Rockefeller
and Rothschild connections and in no way attempts to cover every
aspect, but will suffice to give you a basis on which to understand
how pervasive the Web of influence is and that it is a good deal MORE
than "merely a conspiracy". Just WHO makes up the ILLEGAL SHADOW
GOVERMNENT,YOUR HIDDEN MASTERS?

I ask no one to accept any of this at face value, and would heartily
encourage you to perform your own investigation. To that end,I've
provided an extensive list of reading materials at the end of this
text.

And lastly, I would include a very lucid assessment of our situation
by John DiNardo, which in my opinion, is absolutely correct. There have
been MANY people who are posting such as John, Dave Radcliffe, Rich
Winkel and others who have been showing you just *WHO* the CANCER IS.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    If the usurpers of our freedom, the plunderers of our life's earnings,
    the despoilers of our planet Earth, the deluders of our TV-zombified
    society, the desecrators of our Constitution can crush the Christic
    Institute -- than what refuge is left for the few remaining
    Christic-like organizations to shelter THEM from this Frankenstein
    Monster government?  What refuge is left for you and me, and for our
    children who will necessarily find themselves forced to riot and
    spill their blood in the streets during the twenty-first century?
    It always degenerates to that, you know.

    We Americans are a lazy, short-sighted bunch. We realize that if we
    don't earn a living, we will be impoverished. We realize that if we
    don't brush our teeth, our teeth will rot out of our mouths. We
    realize that if we don't service our cars, they will fail to operate.
    Yet, we don't realize -- or we're too lazy to admit -- that if we
    don't supervise and participate in our system of government to ensure
    that our Constitution is protected from the greedy, power-mad
    neurotics whose ambitions drive them to seize the reins of power
    and wealth vested in our Federal Government, then our libertarian
    foundations will crumble beneath us, leaving us to fall into the
    pit of subjugation that the corporate rulers have prepared for us.

    As we witness our free-fall into the pit, we finally understand
    that the law is slipping out of our hands; that we and our children
    will have to resort to meeting in dark rooms and plotting to recover
    our Constitutional freedoms which the usurpers have seized through
    television, that great national Svengali -- that opiate of the masses
    which they have so cleverly employed to sedate, delude and distract us
    while quietly cuffing our ankles and wrists. How could we be so stupid
    as to surrender our minds to Big Brother, never suspecting that
    whenever someone offers you free entertainment, day after day and
    year after year, it's got to be costing you.

    Why shouldn't we be as vulnerable to totalitarianism as are
    the peoples of most other societies around the world. More so,
    considering the fact that totalitarianism originates from within the
    military elite. And whose nation has the most savagely powerful
    military force on the planet?  What's worse is that it's not just the
    military that's militating against our Constitutional freedoms.
    It's the military-industrial complex. President Eisenhower left office
    a third of a century ago by warning us that the military-industrial
    complex is the greatest threat to our freedom. That was as much of
    a warning as he dared give, lest he meet the doom of his valiant
    successor who tried to actually BE the President of the United States.

    How knowledgeable was the General of the Army of the Second World War,
    Dwight Eisenhower, in his fear of the military-industrial complex?
    As knowledgeable as President Kennedy is dead!

    So you see, there really isn't much time left. If we prove to be too
    lazy now to unite behind Constitutional upholders such as the
    Christic Institute -- then our children in the twenty-first century
    will NOT be too frightened to stand up against the bullets of the
    Wackenhut Security Corporation of Coral Gables, Florida. Because
    when the oppression becomes intolerable, you, I and anyone would
    stand up to bullets, rather than go on living in unbearable agony.
    Ask the Palestinian people who stand up to bullets every day --
    or the Rumanian people, or the Guatemalan people, or the Filipino
    people, or the Chinese people, or the Iranian people, or the
    Tibetan people, or the Timorese people.

    If we prove to be too lazy now, OUR generation may even see the day
    when citizens will speak softly and listen intently for the footsteps
    of the Gestapo who may finally come to kick down our front door and
    arrest us for plotting to regain the Constitutional freedoms
    that were once our heritage.

            John DiNardo

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

  Excerpted from the book, "Rape of The Constitution; Death of Freedom" by
  Gyeorgos C. Hatonn .

  *** The Rockefeller Syndicate ***

  ========================================================================

  Many American conservatives believe as a matter of faith that the
  Rockefellers and the Council on Foreign Relations exercise absolute
  control over the government and the people of the U.S.  This thesis can
  be accepted as a working formula if one remains conscious of the larger
  issues.  Two writers for whom the present writer (E.M) has great respect,
  Dr. Emanuel Josephson and Morris Bealle, insisted on focusing on the
  Rockefellers and excluding all other aspects of the World Order. This
  severely limited the effect of their otherwise groundbreaking work on the
  Medical Monopoly. This writer advanced a contrary view in "The World
  Order," fixing upon the Rothschild monetary power, which reached a point
  of world control by 1885, and its London policy group, the Royal
  Institute of International Affairs, as the policy makers for what has
  essentially been, since 1900, a re-established colonial government,
  functions primarily through the Council on Foreign Relations, but only as
  the subsidiary of RIIA and through the Rockefeller Foundation, which
  controls government functions, the educational establishments, the media,
  the religions and the state legislatures.

  It is true that the American colonials have "free elections," in which
  they have the absolute right to vote for one of two opposing candidates,
  both of whom have been handpicked and financed by the Rockefeller
  syndicate.  This touching evidence of "democracy" serves to convince most
  Americans that you are indeed a free people.  You even have a cracked
  Liberty Bell in Philadelphia to prove it.  American youths have been free
  since 1900 to be marched off to die in Hegelian wars in which both
  combatants received their instructions from the World Order. You are free
  to invest in a stock market in which the daily quantity,price and value
  of the monetary unit is manipulated and controlled by a Federal Reserve
  System which is answerable only to the Bank of England. It has maintained
  its vaunted "independence" from your government control, but this is the
  only independence it has ever had.

  The realization that you do indeed live under the dictates of the
  "Rockefeller Syndicate" can well be the starting point of the long road
  back of a genuine struggle for American independence.  In exposing "the
  Rockefellers" as agents of a foreign power, which is not merely a foreign
  power, but a genuine world government, you must realize that this is not
  merely a group dedicated to making money, but a group which is committed
  to maintaining the power of a colonial form of government over the
  American people.  Thus the ancient calumny of John D. Rockefeller as a
  man obsessed by greed (a category in which he has plenty of company)
  obscures the fact that from the day the Rothschilds began to finance his
  march towards a total oil monopoly in the United States from their
  coffers at the National City Bank of Cleveland, Rockefeller was never an
  independent power, nor does any department of the Rockefeller Syndicate
  operate as an independent power.  You know that the Cosa Nostra, or
  Mafia, with which the Syndicate is closely allied, has somewhat
  autonomous power in the regions which have been assigned to that
  particular "family" by the national directors, but this always implies
  that that family remains under total control and answerable for
  everything which occurs in its territory.

  Similarly, the Rockefeller Syndicate operates under clearly defined
  spheres of influence.  The "charitable" organizations, the business
  companies and the policy groups, always meld into a working operation,
  nor can any department of the Syndicate strike out on its own or
  formulate an independent policy, no matter what may be its
  justification.

  The Rockefeller Syndicate operates under the control of the world
  financial structure, which means that on any given day, all of its assets
  could be rendered close to worthless by adroit financial manipulation.
  This is the final control, which ensures that no one can quit the
  organization.  Not only would he be stripped of all assets, but he would
  be under contract for immediate assassination.  The Department of Justice
  is well aware that the only "terrorists" operating in the United States
  are the agents of the World Order, but they prudently avoid any mention
  of this fact.

  The world financial structure, far from being an unknown or hidden
  organization, is actually well known and well defined.  It consists of
  the major Swiss Banks; the survivors of the old Venetian-Genoese banking
  axis; the Big Five of the world grain trade; the British combine,
  centered in the Bank of England and its chartered merchant banks,
  functioning through the Rothschilds and the Oppenheimers and having
  absolute control over their Canadian colony through the Royal Bank of
  Canada and the Bank of Montreal, their Canadian lieutenants being the
  Bronfmans, Belzbergs, Reichmanns and other financial operators; and the
  colonial banking structure in the U.S., controlled by the Bank of England
  through the Federal Reserve System; the Boston Brahmin families who made
  their fortunes in the opium trade, including the Delanos and others and
  the Rockefeller Bank, Chase Manhattan Bank, American Express, the present
  form of the old Rothschild representatives in the U.S., which includes
  Kuhn,Loeb Company and Lehman Brothers.

  It is notable that the Rockefeller Syndicate is far down on the list of
  the worlds financial structure.  Why then is it of such importance?
  Although it is not the crucial factor in financial decision in the
  Western Hemisphere, it is the actual working control mechanism of the
  American colony.  The Rockefeller family themselves,like the
  Morgans,Schiffs and Warburgs, have faded into insignificance, but the
  mechanism created in their name roars along at full power,still
  maintaining all of the functions for which it was organized.  Since he
  set up the Trilateral Commission, David Rockefeller has functioned as a
  sort of international courier for the World Order, principally concerned
  with delivering working instructions to the Communist bloc,either
  directly, in New York or by traveling to the area.  Laurence Rockefeller
  is active in the operation of the Medical Monopoly, but his principal
  interests are in operating various vacation spas in tropical areas.  They
  are the two survivors of the "Fortunate Five," the five sons of John D.
  Rockefeller, Jr. and Abby Aldrich. John D. Rockefeller, Jr. died in an
  institution in Tucson,Arizona and was hastily cremated.  John D.
  Rockefeller III died in a mysterious accident on a New York Parkway near
  his home.  Nelson Rockefeller, named after his grandfather, died in the
  arms of a TV journalist.  It was later revealed that he had also been in
  the arms of another TV journalist at the same time; the death was hushed
  up for many hours.  It was generally believed that he ran afoul of his
  Columbian drug connection, the disagreement hardly being trivial; it
  involved several billion dollars in drug profits which had not been
  properly apportioned.  Winthrop Rockefeller died an alcoholic in the arms
  of his black boy friend.  He had been interviewed on television by Harry
  Reasoner to explain his hasty move from New York to Arkansas. Winthrop
  learned that his black boy friend, an Army sergeant who apparently taught
  him the mysteries of drill,refused to live in New York. To celebrate this
  alliance, Winthrop Rockefeller gave magnificiently to Negro
  causes,including the Urban League building on East 48th Street in New
  York. A plaque on the second floor notes that it was his gift; it might
  well have stated "From Hadrian to his Antinous."

  We do not wish to imply that the Rockefellers no longer have influence,
  but that the major policy dictates of the Rockefeller Syndicate are
  handed down by other caps, of whom they continue to be a visible force.
  Through the person of David Rockefeller, the family is sometimes called
  "the first family of the Soviet Union." Only he and Dr. Armand Hammer,
  the moving force behind USTEC, have permanent permission to land their
  private planes at the Moscow Airport. Others would suffer the fate of KAL
  007. David Rockefeller's most significant trip to the Soviet Union may
  have been the fateful day when he landed in Moscow, having been told to
  inform Khrushchev that he was "through". The Russians are very health
  conscious, and a scientist had sent information to Khrushchev that the
  use of chemical fertilizers in the Soviet Union presented a threat to the
  people.  Khrushchev then announced a major change in the Soviet farm
  policy, centering around a reduction in the use of chemicals.  This was
  upsetting to the head of the world's Chemical Fertilizer trust, David
  Rockefeller, and he responded with a terse one word command, "Out".

  Both the Rockefeller family fortune and the considerable portion set
  aside in the foundations of the Rockefeller Syndicate are effectively
  insulated against any type of government control.  FORTUNE magazine noted
  August ,1986, that John D. Rockefeller,Jr.  had created trusts in 1934
  which now amounted to some $2.3 billion; another 200 million had been set
  aside for the Abby Rockefeller branch.  The five sons had trusts which in
  1986 amounted to $2.1 billion.  These trusts had originally amounted to
  only $50 million each,showing the increase in their assets as well as
  inflation during the ensuing half century.  FORTUNE estimated the 1986
  total Rockefeller wealth as $3.5 billion of which $900 million was in
  securities and real estate.  They owned 45% of the Time Life
  Building; Nelson Rockefeller's International Basic Economy Corporation had
  been sold to a British company in 1980. For years, the Rockefeller family
  had deliberately kept the rents low in its major holding, Rockefeller
  Center, a $1.6 billion investment yielding an annual return of 1% . This
  was a convenient manuever for tax purposes, and a good one at that.

  Much of the Rockefeller wealth might be attributed to old John D.'s
  rapacity and ruthlessness; its origins are indubitably based in his
  initial financing from the National City Bank of Cleveland, which was
  identified in Congressional reports as one of the three Rothschild banks
  in the United States and by his later acceptance of the guidance of Jacob
  Schiff of Kuhn,Loeb Company, who had been born in the Rothschild house in
  Franfort and was now the principal Rothschild representive (but unknown
  as such to the public) in the United States.

  With the seed money from the National City Bank in Cleveland, old John D.
  Rockefeller soon laid claim to the title of the "most ruthless American".
  It is more than likely that it was this quality which persuaded the
  Rothschilds to back him.  Rockefeller realized early in the game that the
  oil refinery business, which could offer great profits in a short time,
  also was at the mercy of uncontrolled competition.  His solution was a
  simple one--crush all competition.  The famous Rockefeller dedication to
  total monopoly was simply a business decision.  Rockefeller embarked on a
  campaign of coercing all competing oil refineries out of business.  He
  attacked on a number of fronts, which is also a lesson to all would be
  entrepreneurs.  First, he would send a minion, not known to be working for
  Rockefeller, with an offer to buy the competing refinery for a low
  price,but offering cash.  If the offer was refused, the competitor would
  then come under attack from a competing refinery which greatly undercut
  his price.  He might also suffer a sudden strike at his refinery,which
  would force him to shut down.  Control of labor through unions has always
  been a basic Rockefeller technique.  Like the Soviet Union, they seldom
  have labor trouble.  If these techniques failed, Rockefeller would then
  be saddened by a reluctant decision to use violence; beating the rival
  workers as they went to and from their jobs, or burning or blowing up the
  competing refinery.

  These techniques convinced the Rothschilds that they had found their
  man.They sent their personal representative,Jacob Schiff, to Cleveland to
  help Rockefeller plan further expansion.  At this time,the Rothschilds
  controlled 95% of all railroad mileage in the United States,through the
  J.P. Morgan Company and Kuhn Loeb Company,according to official
  Department of Commerce figures for the year 1895. J.P. Morgan mentions in
  his "Who's Who" listing that he controlled 50,000 miles of U.S.
  railways.  Schiff worked out an elaborate rebate deal for
  Rockefeller,through a dummy corporation,South Improvement Company. These
  rebates ensured that no other oil company could survive in competition
  with the Rockefeller firm.  The scheme was later exposed,but by that time
  Rockefeller had achieved a virtual monopoly of the oil business in the
  U.S. The daughter of one of his victims, Ida Tarbell,whose father was
  ruined by Rockefeller's criminal operations, wrote the first major expose
  of the Standard Oil Trust. She was promptly denounced as a "muckracker"
  by the poseur, Theodore Roosevelt, who claimed to be a "trustbuster." In
  fact, he ensured the dominance of the Standard Oil Trust and other giant
  trusts.

  During the next half century, John D. Rockefeller was routinely
  caricatured by socialist propagandists as the epitome of the ruthless
  capitalist.  At the same time, he was the principal financier of the
  world Communist movement, through a firm called American International
  Company. Despite the fact that the House of Rothschild had already
  achieved world control,the sound and the fury was directed exclusively
  against its two principal representatives,John D. Rockefeller and J.P.
  Morgan.  One of the few revelations of the actual state of affairs
  appeared in TRUTH magazine,Dec 16,1912, which pointed out that "Mr.
  Schiff is head of the great private banking house of Kuhn, Loeb Company
  (I knew some of you bright readers would finally pick up that these names
  are all attached to the greatest pharmaceutical firms in the world--even
  into your very vitamin supplement business!), which represents the
  Rothschild interests on your side of the Atlantic. He is described as a
  financial strategist and has been for years the financial minister of the
  great impersonal power known as Standard Oil."  Note that the name of
  Rockefeller was not mentioned in the quote.

  Because of these concealed factors,it was a relatively simple matter for
  the American public to accept the "fact" that the Rockefellers were the
  preeminent power in your country.  This myth was actually clothed in the
  apparel of power,the Rockefeller Oil Trust becoming the
  "military-industrial complex" which assumed political control of the
  nation; the Rockefeller Medical Monopoly attained control of the health
  care of the nation, and the Rockefeller Foundation, a web of affiliated
  tax emempt creations, effectively controlled the religious and
  educational life of the nation.  The myth succeeded in its goal of
  camouflaging the hidden rulers, the Rothschilds.

  After Eustis Mullins and a few others, had been exposing this charade for
  some twenty-five years a new myth began to be noised about in American
  conservative circles, effectively propagated by active double agents.
  This myth found a host of eager believers,because it heralded a growing
  crack in the monolithic power which had been oppressing all the peoples
  of the world.  This "new" revelation was that a struggle to the death for
  world power had developed between the Rockefellers and the Rothschilds.
  According to this startling development, one faction or the other,
  depending on which agent you were listening to, had gained control of the
  Soviet Union and would use its power as the basis for achieving the
  overthrow of the other faction.  The sudden death of several members of
  the Rockefeller family was cited as "proof" that such a struggle was
  taking place, although no Rothschild is known to have succumbed during
  this "war." This ignored the general understanding that Nelson
  Rockefeller had been "eliminated" as the result of losing deposit slips
  for several billion dollars of drugs from the Columbian cartel, or that
  the other Rockefeller deaths showed no trace of a "Rothschild
  connection."

  Having maintained extensive files on this situation for several decades,
  the writer (E.M.),could not believe anyone could be so misinformed as to
  think that "the Rockefellers" were now trying to seize power from the
  Rothschilds, at a time when the influence of members of the Rockefeller
  family was already in great decline, their family finances being handled
  by John J. McCloy, and other faithful retainers;none of the retainers
  would have been willing to engage in a genuine power struggle, as they
  were faceless managers who lived only for their weekly paycheck.  They
  had no ambitions of their own.  Nevertheless, many hopeful Americans
  grasped at the will-o-the-wisp notion the Rockefellers were now "good
  Americans" who were willing to risk all to overthrow the Rothschilds.
  Amazingly enough, this pernicious story persisted for almost a decade
  before being relegated to the curiosities of history.

  Like J.P. Morgan, who had begun his commercial career by selling the U.S.
  Army some defective guns, the famous Hall carbine affair, John D.
  Rockefeller also was a war profiteer during the Civil War;he sold
  unstamped Harkness liquor to Federal troops at a high profit, gaining the
  initial capital to embark on his drive for monopoly.  His interest in the
  oil business was a natural one; his father,William Rockefeller had been
  "in oil" for years.  William Rockefeller had become an oil entrepreneur
  after salt wells at Tarentum, near Pittsburgh, were discovered in 1842 to
  be flowing with oil.  The owners of the wells,Samuel L. Kier, began to
  bottle the oil and sell it for medicinal purposes.  One of his earliest
  wholesalers was William Rockefeller. The "medicine" was originally
  labelled "Kier's Magic Oil". Rockefeller printed his own labels, using
  "Rock Oil" or "Seneca Oil", Seneca being the name of a well known Indian
  Tribe. Rockefeller achieved his greatest notoriety and his greatest
  profits by advertising himself as "William Rockefeller, the Celebrated
  Cancer Specialist".  It is understandable that his grandsons would become
  the controlling power behind the scenes of the world's most famous cancer
  treatment center and would direct government funds and charitable
  contributions to those areas which only benefit the Medical Monopoly.
  William Rockefeller spared no claim in his flamboyant career.  He
  guaranteed "All Cases of Cancer Cured Unless They Are Too Far Gone". Such
  were the healing powers that he attributed to his magic cancer cure that
  he was able to retail it for $25 a bottle, a sum then equivalent to two
  month's wages.  The "cure" consisted of a few well known diuretics, which
  had been diluted by water.  This carnival medicine show barker could
  hardly have envisioned that his descendants would control the greatest
  and the most profitable Medical Monopoly in recorded history.

  As an itinerant "carnie", a traveling carnival peddler, William
  Rockefeller had chosen a career which interfered with developing a stable
  family life.  His son, John, rarely saw him, a circumstance which has
  inspired some psychological analysts to conjecture that the absence of a
  father figure or parental love may have contributed to John D.
  Rockefeller's subsequent development as a money mad tyrant who plotted to
  maim, poison and kill millions of his fellow Americans during almost a
  century of his monopolistic operations and whose influence, reaching up
  from the grave, remains the most dire and malignant presence in American
  life.  This may have been a contributing factor--however, it is also
  possible that he was totally evil.  It is hardly arguable that he is
  probably one of the most Satanic figures in American history.  Evil being
  defined as anything that moves the spiritual aspect of beingness away
  from God as influenced through another.

  It has long been a truism that you can find a horse thief or two in any
  prominent American family.  In the Rockefeller family, it was more than
  true in the case of William who seemed to have faithfully followed the
  precepts of the Will of Canaan throughout his career, "love robbery, love
  lechery".  He fled from a number of indictments for horse stealing and
  you know how serious that is, finally disappearing altogether as William
  and Rockefeller and magically re-emerging as a Dr. William Levingston of
  Philadelphia, a name which he retained for the rest of his life.  An
  investigative reporter at Joseph Pulitzer's New York World received a tip
  that was followed up.  The World then disclosed that William Avery
  Rockefeller had died May 11, 1906 in Freeport, Illinois, where he was
  interred in an unmarked grave as Dr. William Levingston.

  William Rockefeller's vocation as a medicine man greatly facilitated his
  preferred profession of horse thief.  As one who planned to be in the
  next county by morning, it was a simple matter to tie a handsome stallion
  to the back of his wagon and head for the open road.  It also played a
  large part in his vocation as a woman-chaser; he was described as being
  "woman-mad".

  On June 28,1849, he was indicted for raping a hired girl in Cayuga,New
  York; he later was found to be residing in Oswego, New York and was
  forced once again to decamp for parts unknown.  He had no difficulty in
  financing his woman-chasing interests from the sale of his miraculous
  cancer cure and from another product, his "Wonder Working Liniment",
  which he offered at only two dollars a bottle.  It consisted of crude
  petroleum from which the lighter oils had been boiled away, leaving a
  heavy solution of paraffin,lube oil and tar, which comprised the
  "liniment". William Rockefeller's original miracle oil survived until
  quite recently as a concoction called Nujol, consisting principally of
  petroleum and peddled as a laxative.  It was well known that Nujol was
  merely an advertising sobriquet meaning "new oil", as opposed apparently,
  to "old oil".  Sold as an antidote to constipation, it robbed the body of
  fat-soluble vitamins, it being a well-established medical fact that
  mineral oil coated the intestine and prevented the absorption of many
  needed vitamins and other nutritional needs.  Its makers added carotine
  as a sop to the health-conscious, but it was hardly worth the bother.
  Nujol was manufactured by a subsidiary of Standard Oil of New Jersey,
  called Stanco, whose only other product, manufactured on the same
  premises, was the famous insecticide, Flit.

  Nujol was hawked from the Senate Office Building in Washington for years
  during a more liberal interpretation of "conflict of interest".  In this
  case, it was hardly a conflict of interest, because the august
  peddler,Senator Royal S. Copeland, never had any interests other than
  serving the Rockefellers.  He was a physician whom Rockefeller had
  appointed as head of the New York State Department of Health and later
  financed his campaign for the Senate.  Copeland's frank display of
  commercialism amazed even the most blase' Washington reporters.

  He devoted his Senate career to a daily program advertising Nujol. A
  microphone was set up in his Senate office each morning, the first order
  of business being the Nujol program, for which he was paid $75,000 a
  year, an enormous salary in the 1930's and more than the salary of the
  President of the United States. Senator Copeland's exploits earned him a
  number of nicknames on Capital Hill. He was often called the Senator from
  the American Medical Association, because of his enthusiastic backing for
  any program launched by the AMA and Morris Fishbein. More realistically,
  he was usually referred to as "the Senator from Standard Oil". He could
  be counted on to promote any legislation devised for the greater profit
  of the Rockefeller monopoly.  During congressional debate on the Food and
  Drug Act in 1938, he came under criticism from Congresswoman Leonor
  Sullivan, who charged that Senator Copeland, a physician who handled the
  bill on the Senate floor, frankly acknowledged during the debate that
  soap was exempted from the law because the soap manufacturers, who were
  the nation's largest advertisers, would otherwise join with other big
  industries to fight the bill.  Congresswoman Sullivan complained that,
  "Soap was officially declared in the law not to be a cosmetic.  The hair
  dye manufacturers were given a license to market known dangerous
  products, just so long as they placed a special warning on the label -
  but what woman in a beauty parlor ever sees the label on the bulk
  container in which hair dye is shipped?"

  Just as the elder Rockefeller had spent his life in the pursuit of his
  personal obsession, women, so his son John was equally obsessed, being
  money-mad instead of woman-mad, totally committed to the pursuit of
  ever-increasing wealth and power.  However, the principal accomplishments
  of the Rockefeller drive for power, the rebate scheme for monopoly, the
  chartering of the foundations to gain power over American citizens,the
  creation of the central bank, the Federal Reserve System, the backing of
  the World Communist Revolution and the creation of the Medical Monoply,
  all came from the Rothschilds or from their European employees.

  We cannot find in the records of John D. Rockefeller that he originated
  any of these programs.  The concept of the tax exempt charitable
  foundation originated with the Rothschild minion, George Peabody, in
  1865. The Peabody Educational Foundation later became the Rockefeller
  Foundation and many of you should recall that item.  Not that you might
  have been around then but it continues to inadvertently be referred to as
  such.

  It is unlikely that even the diabolical mind of John D. Rockefeller could
  have conceived of this devious twist.  A social historian has described
  the major development of the late nineteenth century, when charitable
  foundations and world Communism became important movements, as one of the
  more interesting facets of history, perhaps equivalent to the discovery
  of the wheel or fire.  This new discovery was the concept developed by
  the rats, who after all have rather highly developed intelligences, that
  they could trap people by baiting traps with little bits of cheese.  The
  history of mankind since then has been the rats catching humans in their
  traps.  Socialism -- indeed, any government program -- is simply the rat
  baiting the trap with a smidgeon of cheese and catching himself a human.

  Congressman Wright Patman, chairman of the House Banking and Currency
  Committee, noted from the floor of Congress that the establishment of the
  Rockefeller Foundation effectively insulated Standard Oil from
  competition.  The controlling stock had been removed from market
  manipulation or possible buyouts by competitors.  It also relieved
  Standard Oil from most taxation, which then placed a tremendous added
  burden on individual American taxpayers.  Although a Rockefeller relative
  by marriage, Senator Nelson Aldrich, Republican majority leader in the
  Senate, had pushed the General Education Board charter through Congress,
  the Rockefeller Foundation charter proved to be more difficult.
  Widespread criticism of Rockefeller's monopolistic practices was heard,
  and his effort to insulate his profits from taxation or takeover was seen
  for what it was.  The charter was finally pushed through in 1913 (the
  significant Masonic numeral 13 -- 1913 was also the year of the
  progressive income tax and of the enactment of the Federal Reserve Act).
  Senator Robert F. Wagner of New York, another Senator from Standard Oil
  (there were quite a few), ramrodded the Congressional approval of the
  charter.  The charter was then signed by John D. Rockefeller, John D.
  Rockefeller, Jr., Henry Pratt Judson, president of the Rockefeller
  established University of Chicago,Simon Flexner, director of the
  Rockefeller Institute, Starr Jameson, described in "Who's Who" as
  "personal counsel to John D. Rockefeller in his benevolences", and
  Charles W. Eliot, president of Harvard University.

  The Rockefeller Oil Monopoly is now 127 years old, yet in 1911, the
  Supreme Court, bowing to public outrage, had ruled that it had to be
  broken up.  The resulting companies proved to be no problem for the
  Rockefeller interests.  The family retained a two per cent holding in
  each of the "new" companies, while the Rockefeller foundations took a
  three per cent holding in each company.  This gave them a five per cent
  stock interest in each company; a one per cent holding in a corporation
  is usually sufficient to maintain working control.

  The involvement of the Rockefellers in promoting the World Communist
  Revolution also developed from their business interests.  There was never
  any commitment to the Marxist ideology; like anything else, it was there
  to be used.  At the turn of the century, Standard Oil was competing
  fiercely with Royal Dutch Shell for control of the lucrative European
  market.  Congressional testimony revealed that Rockefeller had sent large
  sums of money to Lenin and Trotsky to instigate the Communist Revolution
  in 1905. His banker, Jacob Schiff had previously financed the Japanese in
  their war against Russia and had sent a personal emissary, George Kennan
  to Russia to spend some twenty years in promoting revolutionary activity
  against the Czar.

  When the 1905 revolution failed, Lenin was placed "in storage" in
  Switzerland until 1907. Trotsky was brought to the U.S., where he lived
  rent free on the Standard Oil property at Bayonne,New Jersey, its tank
  field.  When the Czar abdicated, Trotsky was placed on a ship with three
  hundred Communist revolutionaries from the Lower East Side of New York.
  Rockefeller obtained a special passport for Trotsky from Woodrow Wilson
  and sent Lincoln Steffens with him to make sure he was returned safely to
  Russia. For traveling expenses, Rockefeller placed a purse containing
  $10,000 in Trotsky's pocket.

  On April 13,1917, when the ship stopped in Halifax, Canadian Secret
  Service officers immediately arrested Trotsky and interred him in Nova
  Scotia. The case became an international cause celebre, as leading
  government officials from several nations frantically demanded Trotsky's
  release.  The Secret Service had been tipped off that Trotsky was on his
  way to take Russia out of the war, freeing more German armies to attack
  Canadian troups on the Western Front.

  Prime Minister Lloyd George hurriedly cabled orders from London to the
  Canadian Secret Service to free Trotsky at once - they ignored him.
  Trotsky was finally freed by the intervention of one of Rockefeller's
  most faithful stooges, Canadian Minister Mackenzie King, who had long
  been a "labor specialist" for the Rockefellers. King personally obtained
  Trotsky's release and sent him on his way as the emissary of the
  Rockefellers, commissioned to win the Bolshevik Revolution.  Thus, Dr.
  Armand Hammer, who loudly proclaimed his influence in Russia as the
  friend of Lenin, has an insignificant claim compared to the role of the
  Rockefellers in backing world Communism.

  Although Communism, like other "isms", had origined with Marx's
  association with the House of Rothschild, it enlisted the reverent
  support of John D.  Rockefeller because he saw Communism for what it is,
  the ultimate monopoly, not only controlling the government, the monetary
  system and all property, but also a monopoly which, like the corporations
  it emulates, is self-perpetuating and eternal.  It was the logical
  progression from his Standard Oil monopoly.

  An important step on the road to world monopoly was the most far-reaching
  corporation invented by the Rothschilds. This was the international drug
  and chemical cartel, I. G. Farben. Called "a state within a state" , it
  was created in 1925 as Interessen Gemeinschaft Farbeinindustrie Aktien
  Gesellschaft, usually known simply as I. G. Farben, which simply meant
  "The Cartel". It had originated in 1904, when the six major chemical
  companies in Germany began negotiations to form the ultimate cartel,
  merging Badische Anilin,Bayer,Agfa,Hoechst,Weiler-ter-Meer, and
  Greisheim-Electron.  The guiding spirit,as well as the financing, came
  from the Rothschilds, who were represented by their German banker, Max
  Warburg of M. M. Warburg Company, Hamburg. He later headed the German
  Secret Service during World War I and was personal financial advisor to
  the Kaiser.

  When the Kaiser was overthrown, after losing the war, Max Warburg was not
  exiled with him to Holland; instead he became the financial advisor to
  the new government.

  Monarchs may come and go, but the real power remains with the bankers.
  While representing Germany at the Paris Peace Conference, Max Warburg
  spent pleasant hours renewing family ties with his brother, Paul Warburg,
  who, after drafting the Federal Reserve Act at Jekyll Island, had headed
  the U.S. banking system during the war.  He was in Paris as Woodrow
  Wilson's financial advisor.

  I. G. Farben soon had a net worth of six billion marks, controlling some
  five hundred firms.  Its first president was Professor Carl Bosch. During
  the period of the Weimar Republic, I.G. Farben officials,seeing the
  handwriting, began a close association with one called Adolf Hitler,
  supplying much needed funds and political influence.

  The success of the I.G. Farben cartel had aroused the interest of other
  industrialists.  Henry Ford was favorably impressed and set up a German
  branch of Ford Motor Company. Forty percent of the stock was purchased by
  I.G. Farben. I.G. Farben then established an American subsidiary called
  American I.G., in cooperation with Standard Oil of New Jersey. Its
  directors included Walter Teagle, President of Standard Oil, Paul Warburg
  of Kuhn,Loeb Company and Edsel Ford, representing the Ford interests.
  John Foster Dulles, for the law firm, Sullivan and Cromwell, became the
  attorney for I.G., frequently traveling between New York and Berlin on
  cartel business.  His law partner, Arthur Dean, is now director of the
  $40 million Teagle Foundation which was set up before Teagle's death.
  Like other fortunes, it had become part of the network.

  =============Continued in Rockefeller Syndicate Part 2===================

--
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From: [e-mail] (Don Allen)
Newsgroups: alt.activism,alt.drugs,alt.conspiracy,misc.headlines,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: EXPOSE: Rockefeller Syndicate - Secret Govt pt 2 (39K)
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Date: 16 Apr 92 04:03:36 GMT
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  ==============Rockefeller Syndicate Part 2==============================


  Like John Foster Dulles, Arthur Dean has been a director of American
  Banknote for many years; this is the firm that supplies the paper for
  your dollar bills.  Dean also has been an active behind the scenes
  government negotiator at conferences on disarmament.  Dean was also a
  director of Rockefeller's American Ag & Chem Company. He was a director
  of American Solvay,American Metal and other firms.

  As attorney for the wealthy Hothschild family, who owned Climax
  Molybdenum and American Metal, Dean became director of their family
  foundation, the Hothschild Foundation. Dean is director emeritus of the
  Council of Foreign Relations, the Asia Foundation, International House,
  Carnegie Foundation, and the Sloan Kettering Cancer Center.

  In 1930,Standard Oil announced that it had purchased an alcohol monopoly
  in Germany, a deal which had been set up by I.G. Farben. After Hitler
  came to power,John D. Rockefeller assigned his personal press agent, Ivy
  Lee, to Hitler to serve as a fulltime advisor on the rearmament of
  Germany, a necessary step for seting up World War II. Standard Oil then
  built large refineries in Germany for the Nazis and continued to supply
  them with oil during World War II. In the 1930's, Standard Oil was
  receiving in payment from Germany large shipments of musical instruments
  and ships which had been built in German yards.

  The dreaded Gestapo, the Nazi police force, was actually built from the
  worldwide intelligence network which I.G. Farben had maintained since its
  inception.  Herman Schmitz, who had succeeded Carl Bosch as head of I.G.,
  had been personal advisor to Chancellor Breuning; when Hitler took over,
  Schmitz then became his most trusted secret counselor.

  So well concealed was the association that the press had orders never to
  photograph them together.  Schmitz was named an honorary member of the
  Reichstag, while his assistant, Carl Krauch, became Goering's principal
  advisor in carrying out the Nazis' Four Year Plan. A business associate
  Richard Krebs, later testified before the House Un-American Activities
  Committee, "The I.G. Farbinidustrie, I know from personal experience, was
  already, in 1934, completely in the hands of the Gestapo." This was a
  misstatement; the I.G. Farben had merely allied itself WITH the Gestapo.

  In 1924, Krupp Industries was in serious financial difficulty; the firm
  was saved by a $10 million cash loan from Hallgarten & Company and
  Goldman Sachs, two of Wall Street's best known firms.  The planned
  re-armament of Germany was able to proceed only after Dillon Read floated
  $100 million of German bonds on Wall Street for that purpose.  It was
  hardly surprising that at the conclusion of the Second World War, General
  William Draper was appointed Economic Czar of Germany, being named head
  of the Economic Division of the Allied Military Government. He was a
  partner of Dillon Read.

  In 1939, Frank Howard, a vice-president of Standard Oil, visited
  Germany.  He later testified, "We did our best to work out complete plans
  for a modus vivendi which would operate throughout the term of the war,
  whether we came in or not."  At this time, American I.G. had on its board
  of directors Charles Mitchell, president of the National City Bank, the
  Rockefeller Bank, Carl Bosch, Paul Warburg, Herman Schmitz and Schmitz'
  nephew, Max Iigner.

  Although his name is hardly well known, Frank Howard was for many years a
  key figure in Standard Oil operations as director of its research and its
  international agreements.  He was also chairman of the research committee
  at Sloan Kettering Institute during the 1930's; his appointee at Sloan
  Kettering, Dusty Rhoads, headed the experimentation in the development of
  chemotheraphy -- which killed more humans than most wars.  During the
  Second World War,Rhoads headed the Chemical Warfare Service (talents
  should never be wasted), in Washington at U.S. Army Headquarters. It was
  Frank Howard who had persuaded Alfred Sloan and Charles Kettering of
  General Motors in 1939 to give their fortunes to the Cancer Center (and
  now you know why cancer won't ever be cured), which then took on their
  names.

  A member of the wealthy Atherton family, Frank Howard (1890-1964) had
  married a second time, his second wife being a leading member of the
  British aristocracy, the Duchess of Leeds. The first Duke of Leeds was
  titled in 1694, Sir Thomas Osborne, who was one of the key conspirators
  in the overthrow of King James II (could this be the lineage of the King
  James version of the Bible,do you suppose?).  And then came the seizure
  of the throne of England by William III in 1688.

  Osborne had made peace with Holland during the reign of King Charles II,
  and singlehandedly promoted the marriage of Mary,daughter of the Duke of
  York, to William of Orange in 1677. The Dictionary of National Biography
  notes that Osborne "for five years managed the House of Commons by
  corruption and enriched himself."  He was impeached by King Charles II
  for treasonous negotiation with King Louis XIV and imprisoned in the
  Tower of London from 1678 to 1684. After his release, he again became
  active in the conspiracy to bring in William of Orange as King of England
  and secured the crucial province of York for him.  William then created
  him Duke of Leeds. The placing of William on the throne of England made
  it possible for the conspirators to implement the crucial step in their
  plans,setting up the Bank of England in 1694. This in turn enabled the
  Amsterdam bankers to gain control of the wealth of the British Empire.
  Osborne's biography also notes that he was later accused of Jacobinite
  intrigues and was impeached for receiving a large bribe to procure the
  charter for the East India Company in 1695, but "the proceedings were not
  ever concluded".  He left a very large fortune.

  The 11th Duke of Leeds was Minister to Washington from 1931 to 1935,
  Minister to the Holy See from 1936 to 1947, that is, throughout the
  Second World War. One branch of the family married into the Delano family
  becoming relatives of Franklin Delano Roosevelt. A cousin,Viscount
  Chandros, was a prominent British official,serving in the War Cabinet
  under Churchill from 1942 to 1945, later becoming a director of the
  Rothschild firm,Alliance Assurance, and Imperial Chemical Industries.

  Frank Howard was the key official in maintaining relations between
  Standard Oil and I.G. Farben. He led the development of synthetic rubber,
  which was crucial to Germany in the Second World War; he later wrote a
  book "Buna Rubber". He was also the consultant to the drug firm,Rohm and
  Haas,representing the Rockefeller connection within that firm.  In his
  later years, he resided in Paris, but continued to maintain his office at
  30 Rockefeller Center,New York.

  Walter Teagle, the president of Standard Oil, owned 500,000 shares of
  American I.G., these shares later becoming the basis of the Teagle
  Foundation. Herman Metz, who was also a director of the American I.G.,
  was president of H.A. Metz Company,New York, a drug firm wholly owned by
  I.G. Farben of Germany. Francis Garvan, who had served as Alien Property
  Custodian during the First World War, knew many secrets of I.G. Farben's
  operations.  He was prosecuted in 1929 to force him to remain silent.
  The action was brought by the Department of Justice through Attorney
  General Merton Lewis, the former counsel for Bosch Company. John Krim,
  former counsel for the German Embassy in the U.S., testified that Senator
  John King had been on the payroll of the Hamburg American Line for three
  years at a salary of fifteen thousand dollars a year; he appointed Otto
  Kahn as treasurer of his election fund.  Homer Cummings, who had been
  Attorney General for six years, then became counsel for General Aniline
  and Film at a salary of $100,000 a year.

  During the Second World War, GAF was supposedly owned by a Swiss firm; it
  came under considerable suspicion as an "enemy" concern and was finally
  taken over by the United States government.  John Foster Dulles had been
  director of GAF from 1927 to 1934; he was also a director of
  International Nickel, which was part of the network of I.G. Farben
  firms.

  Dulles was related to the Rockefeller family through the Avery
  connection.  He was attorney for the organization of a new investment
  firm,set up by Avery Rockefeller, in 1936 which was called
  Schroder-Rockefeller Company.  It combined operations of the Schroder
  Bank, Hitler's personal bank, and the Rockefeller interest.  Baron Kurt
  von Schroder was one of Hitler's closest confidants, and a leading
  officer of the SS. He was head of the Keppler Associates, which funneled
  money to the SS for leading German Corporations. Keppler was the official
  in charge of Industril Fats during Goering's Four Year Plan, which was
  launched in 1936.

  American I.G. changed its name to General Aniline and Film (GAF) during
  the Second World War, but it was still wholly owned by I.G. Chemie of
  Switzerland, a subsidiary of I.G. Farben of Germany. It was headed by
  Gadow, brother-in-law of Herman Schmitz. I.G. Farben's international
  agreements directly affected the U.S. war effort, because they set limits
  on U.S. supplies of magnesium,synthetic rubber and crucial medical
  supplies.  The director of I. G. Farben's dyestuffs division, Baron
  George von Schnitzler, was related to the powerful von Rath family, the
  J.H.  Stein Bankhaus which held Hitler's bank account and the von
  Mallinckrodt family, the founders of the drug firm in the United States.

  Like other I.G. officials, he had become an enthusiastic supporter of the
  Hitler regime.  I.G. Farben gave four and a half million riechmarks to
  the Nazi Party in 1933; by 1945, I.G. had given the Party 440 million
  riechmarks, a sum which equalled all contributions by I.G. to all other
  recipients during that period.

  One scholar of the Nazi era, Antony Sutton, has focused heavily on German
  supporters of Hitler, while ignoring the crucial role played by the Bank
  of England and its Governor, Sir Montague Norman, in financing the Nazi
  regime.  Sutton's position on this problem may have been influenced by
  the fact he is British. In view of the outspoken statements from Adolf
  Hitler about Jewish influence in Germany, it would be difficult to
  explain the role of I.G. Farben in the Nazi era.  Peter Hayes' definitive
  study of I.G. Farben shows that in 1933, it had 10 Jews on its governing
  boards.  It has been previously pointed out that I.G., from its
  inception, was a Rothschild concern, formulated by the House of
  Rothschild and implemented through its agents, Max Warburg in Germany and
  Standard Oil in the United States.

  Prince Bernhard of the Netherlands joined the SS during the early 1930's.
  He then joined the board of an I.G. subsidiary, Farben Bilder, from which
  he took the name of his postwar supersecret policy making group, the
  Bilderbergers.  Farben executives played an important role in organizing
  the Circle of Friends for Heinrich Himmler, although it was initially
  known as Keppler's Circle of Friends, Keppler being the chairman of an
  I.G. subsidiary.  His nephew, Fritz J. Dranefuss, was the personal
  assistant to Heinrich Himmler. Of the forty members of the Circle of
  Friends, which provided ample funds for Himmler, eight were executives of
  I.G. Farben or its subsidiaries.

  Despite the incredible devastation of most German cities from World War
  II air bombings, the I.G. Farben building in Frankfurt, one of the
  largest buildings there, "miraculously" survived intact.  A large
  Rockefeller mansion in Frankfurt also was left untouched by the war,
  despite the saturation bombing.  Frankfurt was the birthplace of the
  Rothschild family.

  It was hardly coincendental that the postwar government of Germany,Allied
  Military Government, should set up its offices in the magnificent I.G.
  Farben building.  This government was headed by General Lucius Clay, who
  later became a partner of Lehman Brothers bankers in New York. The
  Political Division was headed by Robert Murphy, who would preside at the
  Nuremburg Trials where he was successful in glossing over the implication
  of I.G. Farben officials and Baron Kurt von Schroder. Schroder was held a
  short time in a detention camp and then set free to return to his banking
  business.

  The Economic Division was headed by Lewis Douglas, son of the founder of
  the Memorial Cancer center in New York, president of Mutual Life and
  director of General Motors. Douglas was slated to become U.S. High
  Commissioner for Germany, but he agreed to step aside in favor of his
  brother-in-law,John J. McCloy. By a most interesting circumstance,
  Douglas, McCloy and Chancellor Konrad Adenauer had all married sisters,
  the daughters of John Zinsser, a partner of J.P. Morgan Company.

  As the world's pre-eminent cartel, I.G. Farben and the drug companies
  which it controlled in the United States through the Rockefeller
  interests were responsible for many inexplicable developments in the
  production and distribution of drugs.  From 1908 to 1936, I.G. held back
  its discovery of sulfanilimide, which would become a potent weapon in the
  medical arsenal.  In 1920, I.G. had signed working agreements with the
  important drug firms of Switzerland,Sandoz and Ciba-Geigy. In 1926, I.G.
  merged with Dynamit-Nobel, the German branch of the dynamite firm, while
  an English firm took over the English division.  I.G. officials then
  began to negotiate with Standard Oil officials about the prospective
  manufacture of synthetic coal, which would present a serious threat to
  Standard Oil's monopoly.  A compromise was reached with the establishment
  of American I.G., in which both firms would play an active role and share
  in the profits.

  Charles Higham's book "Trading with the Enemy", offers ample
  documentation of the Rockefeller activities during the Second World War.
  When Hitler's bombers were dropping tons of explosives on London, they
  were paying royalties on every gallon of gasoline they burned to Standard
  Oil.

  Nelson Rockefeller moved to Washington after the U.S. involvement in
  World War II, where Roosevelt named him Coordinator of Inter-American
  Affairs.  Apparently his principal task was to coordinate the refueling
  of German ships in South America from Standard Oil tanks.  He also used
  that office to obtain important South American concessions for his
  private firm, International Basic Exonomy Corporation, including a corner
  on the Columbian coffee market.  He immediately raised the price, a move
  which enabled him to buy several billion dollars worth of real estate in
  South America and also gave rise to the sterotype of the "Yanqui
  Imperialissimo". It also gave rise to several billion dollars worth of
  drug-growing real estate.

  After World War II, twenty-four German executives were prosecuted by the
  victors, all of them connected with I.G. Farben, including eleven
  officers of I.G. Eight were acquitted, including Max Iigner, nephew of
  Herman Schmitz. Schmitz received the most severe sentence, eight years.
  Iigner actually received three years, but the time was credited against
  his time in jail waiting for trial, and he was immediately released.  The
  Judge was C. G. Shake and the prosecuting attorney was Al Minskoff.

  The survival of I.G. Farben was headlined by the WALL STREET JOURNAL on
  May 3, 1988 --GERMANY BEATS WORLD IN CHEMICAL SALES. Reporter F. O'Boyle
  listed the world's top five chemical companies in 1987 as: 1). BASF $25.8
  billion.  2). Bayer $23.6 billion.  3). Hoechst $23.5 billion.  4). ICI
  $20 billion, and 5). DuPont $17 billion dollars in chemical sales only.

  The first three companies are the firms resulting from the "dismantling"
  of I.G. Farben from 1945 to 1952, by the Allied Military Government, in a
  process suspiciously similar to the "dismantling" of the Standard Oil
  empire by court edict in 1911. The total sales computed in dollars of the
  three spin-offs of I.G. Farben,some $72 billion in visible features.
  This dwarfs its nearest rivals ICI and DuPont,who together amount to
  about half.  Hoechst then bought Celanese Corp. in 1987 for $2.72
  billion.

  O'Boyle notes that "The Big Three (Farben spin-offs)" still behave just
  like the old cartel.  Each dominates specific areas; head to head
  competition is limited.  Critics know there is collusion but nothing can
  be done about it and how many taxes do you think these "biggies" pay?

  Following the war, Americans were told they must support an "altruistic"
  plan to rebuild Europe, to be called the Marshall Plan, after Chief of
  Staff George Marshall, who had been labeled on the floor of the Senate by
  Senator Joseph McCarthy as "a living lie".  The Marshall Plan proved to
  be merely another Rockefeller Plan to loot the American tax-payer.  On
  Dec. 13, 1948, Col Robert McCormick, editor of the CHICAGO TRIBUNE,
  personally denounced Esso's looting of the Marshall Plan in a signed
  editorial.  The Marshall Plan had been rushed through Congress by a
  powerful and vocal group, headed by Winthrop Aldrich, president of the
  Chase Manhattan Bank and Nelson Rockefeller's brother-in-law, ably
  seconded by Nelson Rockefeller and William Clayton, the head of
  Anderson,Clayton Company. The Marshall Plan proved to be but one of a
  number of lucrative postwar swindles, which included the Bretton Woods
  Agreement,United Nations Relief and Rehabilitation and several more.

  After World War II, the Rockefellers used their war profits to buy a
  large share of Union Miniere du Haut Katanga, an African copper lode
  owned by Belgian interests, including the Societe Generale, a Jesuit
  controlled bank.  Soon after their investment the Rockefellers launched a
  bold attempt to seize control of the mines through sponsoring a local
  revolution, using as their agent the Grangesberg operation.

  This enterprise had originally been developed by Sir Ernest
  Cassel,financial advisor to King Edward VII -- Cassel's daughter later
  married Lord Mountbatten, a member of the British royal family, who was
  also related to the Rothschilds. Grangesberg was now headed by Bo
  Hammarskjold, whose brother Dag Hammarskjold was then Secretary General
  of the United Nations.  Bo became a casualty of the Rockefeller
  revolution when his plane was shot down during hostilities in the Congo.
  The Rockefeller intervention in the Congo was carried out by their able
  lieutenants,Dean Rusk and George Ball of the State Department and by
  Fowler Hamilton.

  In the United States, the Rockefeller interests continue to play a major
  political role.  Old John D's treasurer at Standard Oil, Charles Pratt
  bequeathed his New York mansion to the Council of Foreign Relations as
  its world headquarters.  His grandson,George Pratt Schultz, became
  Secretary of State in the Reagan Administration.

  The Rockefellers also wielded a crucial role through their financing of
  the Trotskyite Communist group in the United States, the League of
  Industrial Democracy, whose directors include such staunch "anti-
  Communists" as Jeane Kirkpatrick and Sidney Hook. The Rockefellers were
  also active on the "rightwing" front through their sponsorship of the
  John Birch Society. To enable Robert Welch, a 32nd degree Mason, to
  devote all of his time to the John Birch Society, Nelson Rockefeller
  purchased his family firm, the Welch Candy Company, from him at a most
  handsome price.  Welch chose the principal officers of the John Birch
  Society from his acquaintances at the Council on Foreign Relations.

  For years afterwords, American patriots were puzzled by the consistent
  inability of the John Birch Society to move forward on any of its well
  advertised "anti-Communist" goals.  The fact that the society had been
  set up at the behest of the backers of the world Communist revolution may
  have played some role in this development.  After several decades of
  futility, the Society was totally discredited by its own record.  In a
  desperate effort to restore its image, William Buckley, the CIA
  propagandist, launched a "fierce" attack against the John Birch Society
  in the pages of his magazine the NATIONAL REVIEW. This free publicity
  campaign did little to revive the moribund organization.

  The Rockefeller monopoly influence has had its effect on some of New
  York's largest and wealthiest churches.  Trinity Church on Wall Street,
  whose financial resources had been directed by none other than J. P.
  Morgan, owns some forty commercial properties in Manhattan and has a
  stock portfolio of over $50 million in known figures, which of course, is
  due to informed investments (some call it insider trading), and actually
  yields a return of over $25 million a year!  Only $2.6 million of this
  income is spent for charitable work.  The rector, who receives a salary
  of $100,000 a year, lives on the fashionable Upper East Side.  Trinity's
  mausoleum sells its spaces at fees starting starting at $1250 and rising
  to $20,000 . St Bartholomews, on Fifth Avenue, has an annual budget of
  $3.2 million a year of which only $100,000 is spent on charity.  Its
  rector resides in a thirteen room apartment on Park Avenue.

  In medicine, the Rockefeller influence remains entrenched in its Medical
  Monopoly. If you are curious, get a Physicians Desk Reference and look at
  the drug firm's names.

  They control the cancer industry through the Sloan Kettering Cancer
  Center. The drug firms each have its director from Chase Manhattan Bank,
  the Standard Oil Company or other Rockefeller firms.  The American
  College of Surgeons maintains a monopolistic control of hospitals through
  the powerful Hospital Survey Committee, with members Winthrop Aldrich and
  David McAlpine Pyle representing the Rockefeller control.

  A medical fraternity known as the "rich man's club", the New York Academy
  of Medicine, was offered grants for a new building by the Rockefeller
  Foundation and the Carnegie Foundation, its subsidiary group.  This "seed
  money" was then used to finance a public campaign which brought in funds
  to erect a new building.

  For Director of the new facility, the Rockefellers chose Dr. Lindsley
  Williams, son-in-law of the managing partner of Kidder, Peabody, a firm
  strongly affiliated with the J. P. Morgan interest (the J. P. Morgan
  Company had originally been called the Peabody Company,remember?).
  Williams was married to Grace Kidder Ford. Although Dr. Williams was
  widely known to be an incompetent physician, his family's connections
  were impeccable.  He became a factor in Franklin D. Roosevelt's election
  campaign when he publicly certified that Roosevelt, a cripple in a
  wheelchair who suffered from a number of oppressive ailments, was both
  physically and mentally fit to be the President of the United States.

  Dr. Williams' opinion, published in an article in the widely circulated
  COLLIER'S MAGAZINE, allayed public doubts about Roosevelt's condition.
  As a result, Williams was to be offered a newly created post in
  Roosevelt's cabinet, Secretary of Health.

  The Rockefellers had greatly extended their business interests in the
  impoverished Southern states by establishing the Rockefeller Sanitary
  Commission. It was headed by Dr. Wickliffe Rose, a longtime Rockefeller
  henchman, whose name appears on the original charter of the Rockefeller
  Foundation. Despite its philanthropic goals, the Rockefeller Sanitary
  Commission required financial contributions from each of the eleven
  Southern states in which it operated, resulting in the creation of State
  Departments of Health in those states and opening up important new
  spheres of influence for their Drug Trust.

  In Tennessee, the Rockefeller representative was a Dr. Olin West, who
  moved on to Chicago to become the power behind the scenes at the American
  Medical Association (AMA) for the next forty years, as secretary and
  general manager.

  The Rockefeller Institute for Medical Research finally dropped the
  "Medical Research" part of its title; its president Dr. Detlev Bronk,
  resided in a $600,000 mansion furnished by this charitable operation.
  Rockefeller's General Education Board has spent more than $100 million to
  gain control of the nation's medical schools and turn your physicians
  into physicians of the "allopathic" school, dedicated to surgery and
  heavy use of drugs.  The Board, which had developed from the original
  Peabody Foundation, also spent some $66 million for Negro education.

  One of the most far-reaching consequences of the General Education
  Board's political philosophy was achieved with a mere $6 million dollar
  grant to Columbia University in 1917, to set up a "progressive" Lincoln
  School. From this school descended the national network of progressive
  educators and social scientists, whose pernicious influence closely
  paralleled the goals of the Communist Party, another favorite recipient
  of the Rockefeller millions.  From its outset, the Lincoln School was
  described frankly as a revolutionary school for the primary and secondary
  schools for the entire United States. It immediately discarded all
  theories of education which were based on formal and well established
  disciplines, that is, the McGuffy Reader type of education which worked
  by teaching such subjects as Latin and algebra, thus teaching children to
  think logically about problems.  And look where you've come today!

  Rockefeller Institute financial fellowships produced many prominent
  workers in the U.S. atomic programs, such as J. Robert Oppenheimer, who
  was later removed from government laboratories as a suspected Soviet
  agent.  Although most of his friends and associates were known as Soviet
  agents, this was called "guilt by association".  The Rockefeller
  Foundation created a number of spinoff groups, which now plague the
  nations with a host of ills, one of them being the Social Science
  Research Council, which single-handedly spawned the nationwide "poverty
  industry" , a business which expends some $130 plus billion a year of
  taxpayer funds while grossing some $6 billion income for its
  practioners.  The money, which would amply feed and house all the
  nation's "poor", is dissipated through a vast administrative network
  which awards generous concessions to a host of parasitic "consultants".

  Despite years of research, the surface is only scratched regarding the
  Rockefeller influences.  The huge Burroughs Wellcome drug firm, for
  instance is wholly owned by the "charitable" Wellcome Trust. This trust
  is directed by Lord Oliver Franks, a key member of the London Connection
  which maintains the United States as a British Colony. Franks was
  Ambassador to the United States from 1948 to 1952. He is recently a
  director of the Rockefeller Foundation, as its principal representative
  in England. He is also a director of the Schroder Bank, which handled
  Hitler's personal bank account, director of the Rhodes Trust in charge of
  approving Rhodes scholarships, visiting professor at the University of
  Chicago and chairman of Lloyd's Bank, one of England's Big Five.

  Other Rockefeller Foundation spinoffs include the influential Washington
  thinktank, the Brookings Institution, the National Bureau of Economic
  Research, whose findings play a critical role in manipulating the stock
  market; the Public Administrative Clearing House, which indoctrinates the
  nation's municipal employees; the Council of State Governments, which
  control the nation's state legislatures; and the Institute of Pacific
  Relations, the most notorious Communist front in the United States. The
  Rockefellers appeared as directors of this group, funnelling money to it
  through their financial advisor, Lewis Lichtenstein Strauss, of Kuhn,
  Loeb Company.

  The Rockefellers have maintained their controlling interest in the Chase
  Manhattan Bank; owning five per cent of the stock.  One per cent is
  generally considered to give working control of a bank.  Through this one
  asset, they control $42.5 billion worth of assets in known figures.
  Chase Manhattan interlocks closely with the Big Four insurance companies,
  of which three, Metropolitan, Equitable and New York Life had over $113
  billion in assets as far back as 1969 --what do you think it might be
  today?

  With the advent of the Reagan Administration in 1980, the Rockefeller
  interests sought to obscure their longtime support of world Communism by
  bringing to Washington a vocally "anti-Communist" administration.  Reagan
  was soon wining and dining Soviet premiers as enthusiastically as had his
  predecessor, Jimmy Carter.

  The Reagan campaign had been managed by two officals of Bechtel
  Corporation, its president, George Pratt Schultz, a Standard Oil heir,
  and his counsel, Caspar Weinberger. Schultz was named Secretary of State,
  Weinberger, Secretary of Defense. Bechtel had been financed by the
  Schroder-Rockefeller Company, the 1936 alliance between the Schroder Bank
  and the Rockefeller heirs.

  The Rockefeller influence also remains preeminent in the monetary field.
  Since November, 1910 , when Senator Nelson Aldrich chaired the secret
  conference at Jekyll Island which gave you the Federal Reserve Act, the
  Rockefellers have kept you within the sphere of the London Connection.
  During the Carter Administration, David Rockefeller generously sent his
  personal assistant, Paul Volcker, to Washington to head the Federal
  Reserve Board. Reagan finally replaced him in 1987 with Alan Greenspan, a
  partner of J.P. Morgan.

  Their influence on your banking system has remained constant through many
  a financial coup on their part; one of the most profitable being the
  confiscation of privately owned gold from American citizens by
  Roosevelt's edict.  Your citizens had to turn over their gold to the
  privately owned Federal Reserve System and wasn't that about as clever a
  maneuver as you could possibly conjure up?

  The Constitution permits confiscation for purposes of eminent domain, but
  prohibits confiscation for private gain.  The gold's new owners then had
  the gold revalued from $20 an ounce to $35, giving them an enormous
  profit.  Are you getting a little more interested in learning what comes
  next with the new Constitution, the Newstates, Gun Confiscation and the
  already in operation Constitution?  I certainly hope so for you are
  teetering on the brink of the abyss.

  Surely by now in reviewing the all pervasive influence of the
  Rockefellers and their foreign controllers, the Rothschilds, in every
  aspect of your American Life -- as well as your overseas brethren, I hope
  every American citizen is asking "What can be done?"  Well, right can
  prevail only when the citizens actively seek JUSTICE. JUSTICE can prevail
  only when each citizen realizes that it is his God-given duty to mete out
  justice.  History has documented all the crimes of the usurpers of your
  Constitution.  You must be learning the painful lesson that the
  Rockefeller monopolists exercise their evil power almost solely through
  federal and state agents.  You had a brave one, Ron Paul, who ran for
  President of the U.S. on an eminently sensible and practical campaign to
  abolish the Federal Reserve System, abolish the FBI, abolish the Internal
  Revenue Service, and abolish the CIA. How many of you have even heard of
  this man?

  It has been recognized and known that the function of the Federal Bureau
  of Investigation, ostensibly set up to "fight crime", has been to harass
  and isolate political dissidents to over 90% of its actions - including
  writers of this type of information.

  The criminal syndicalists are now looting the American nation of one
  trillion or more dollars every year, of which about one-third, more than
  some three hundred billion dollars per year, represents the profitable
  depredations of the Drug Trust and its medical subsidiaries.  Before a
  sustained effort to combat these depredations can be mounted, Americans
  must make every effort to regain their health.

  You will now unite to restore your national health -- which will in turn
  restore your national pride, the resumption of your role as the inventors
  and producers of the modern world, along with the custodianship of the
  world's hopes and dreams of liberty and freedom.  It is all but too late
  -- what will you do?

  What are you going to do as individuals to demand return to your
  Constitution and the values that made you great?  David Rockefeller now
  sits on the Board of Turner network, effectively rendering the network
  useless to anything but replays of drivel -- and got Jane Fonda, who had
  been a major spoke in the wheel of freedom to boot!  He sits on the
  controlling Board of the forming Native American Museum of History at the
  Smithsonian, his group has infiltrated and become controllers of
  Windstar, John Denver's earth group.  Ah, the hidden spikes within the
  rainbow seem endless, do they not?

  Now who might be telling you truth?  everything I have written herein can
  be checked out in your libraries or even your national library of
  Congress -- every step can be ferreted out with enough effort -- but it
  is a waste of time when you could be taking some action in your own
  defense.  The gun control bill *today* is the beginning of the final
  curtain to the Second Amendment -- you will soon have your right to bear
  arms rendered null and void -- and what is worse, you who are uninformed
  -- will applaud it just as you did the "invasion of Panama". Then *who*
  will you blame for your enslavement?


  ==========Suggested Reading List=========================================


  Brzezinski,Zbigniew - "Between Two Ages: America's Role in The
  Technotronic Era" New York: The Viking Press, 1970

  Collier,Peter and David Horowitz. "The Rockefellers: An American Dynasty"
  New York: New American Library, 1976

  Domhoff, G. William. "The Powers That Be: Process of Ruling Class
  Domination in America" New York: Vintage Books, 1978

  Shoup,Laurence H. and Minter,William. "Imperial Brain Trust: The Council
  on Foreign Relations and United States Policy" New York: Monthly Review
  Press, 1977

  Sklar,Holly "Trilateralism: The Trilateral Commission and Elite Planning
  for World Management" Boston: South End Press, 1980

  Josephson, Matthew "The Robber Barons: The Great American Capitalists"
  Orlando,Florida: Harcourt Brace Jovanovich, 1962

  Lundberg,Ferdinand "The Rockefeller Syndrome" New Jersey: Lyle Stuart
  Inc, 1975

  Patman,Wright "Chain Banking: Stockholder and Loan Links of 200 Largest
  Member Banks" Washington,D.C. U.S. Government Printing Office,1963

  Josephson,Emmanuel M. "The Federal Reserve Conspiracy and The
  Rockefellers: Their Gold Corner" New York: Chedney Press, 1968

  Lundberg,Ferdinand "The Rich and The Super Rich" New Jersey: Lyle Stuart,
  1968

  Roth,Cecil "The Magnificent Rothschilds" Robert Hale Co, 1939

  Rothschild de Guy "The Whims of Fortune", New York: Random House, 1985

  Morton,Frederic "The Rothschilds" Curtis Publishing Co., 1961

  Sutton,Antony "The War On Gold" 76 Press, California 1977

  Sutton,Antony "Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler" 76 Press,California
  1976

  Sutton,Antony "Trilaterals over Washington"
  Scottsdale,Arizona : The August Corporation, 1979

  Kitson,Arthur "The Bankers Conspiracy" 1933

  Goldman,Steinberg et al., "Dope Inc." New York: New Benjamin Franklin
  House Publishing Company, N.Y. 1978

  Bach, G.L. "Federal Reserve Policy Making" New York: Knapf 1950

  Larson, Martin A. "The Federal Reserve and Our Manipulated Dollar" Old
  Greenwich,Conn Devin Adair Co., 1975

  E.M. House "Phillip Dru,Administrator" New York: B.W. Huebsch 1912

  Smith,Howden D. Arthur "Men Who Run America" New York: Bobbs Merril 1935

  Hapgood,David "The Screwing of the Average Man" New York: Doubleday &
  Co., 1974

  Josephson,Emanuel M. "The Truth About The Rockefellers: Public Enemy No.
  1; Studies in Criminal Psychopathy" New York: Chedney Press, 1964

  Manning,Thomas G. "The Standard Oil Company: The Rise of a National
  Monopoly" New York: Holt,Rinehart and Winston, 1962

  Stern,Phillip M. "The Rape of The Taxpayer" New York: Random House 1973

  Tarbell,Ida "The History of the Standard Oil Company" (The masterwork on
  the original company).  2 vols.  New York: MacMillan, 1905

  Shoup,Laurence "The Carter Presidency and Beyond: Power and Politics in
  the 1980s" Palo Alto,California: Ramparts Press, 1979

  Ball,George W.,ed. "Global Companies: The Political Economy of World
  Business" Englewood Cliffs,N.J. Prentice-Hall, 1975

  Who's Who in America 1890-1983 A.N. Marquis Co.

  The Great Soviet Encyclopaedia, MacMillan,London, 1973

  Warburg,Paul "The Federal Reserve System" New York: MacMillan, 1930

  Winkler K. John "Morgan the Magnificent" New York: Vanguard, 1930

  Rockester,Anna "Rulers of America, A Study of Finance Capital" New York:
  International Publishers, 1936

  Standard and Poor's Register of Directors 1928-1983

  Senate Committee Hearings on Federal Reserve Act, 1913

  House Committee Hearings on Federal Reserve Act, 1913

  Federal Reserve Directors: A Study of Corporate and Banking Influence.
  Staff Report,Committee on Banking,Currency and Housing, House of
  Representatives, 94th Congress,2nd Session,August 1976

  Directory of Directors,London 1896-1983

  Mullins,Eustace "The Secrets of The Federal Reserve" Bankers Research
  Institute,PO Box 1105,Staunton,Va. 1983

  Hatonn,C. Gyeorgos "Rape Of The Constitution; Death of Freedom" Vol II.
  Tehachapi,California: America West Publishers, 1990

  Zajac,John "The Delicate Balance" Lafayette,Louisiana: Prescott Press,
  Inc., 1989,1990/Huntington House - Distrib.

  Ashman,R. Charles "Kissinger: The Adventures of Super-Kraut" Secaucus,
  New Jersey: Lyle Stuart, 1972

  Crump,Spencer "Ride The Big Red Cars - The Pacific Electric Story"
  Glendale,California: Trans-Anglo Books, 1983

  Coleman,John "The Club of Rome, The Enemy of Mankind" Arcadia, Lousiana:
  Christian Defense League, 1983

  Coleman,John "Conspirators Hierarchy: The Committee of 300"
  Tehachapi,California: America West Publishers PO Box 6451 93582, 1992 ed.


--
-* Don Allen *-               // Only   | Tavistock + Esalen = "New Age"
Internet: [e-mail]  \X/ Amiga   | Rothschild + Rockefeller = FED
UUCP: .uunet!peora!bilver!vicstoy!dona  | UN + Maitreya = "Twilight Zone"
"A democracy cannot be both ignorant and free"  - Thomas Jefferson
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!stl!stc!patb
From: [e-mail] (Patrick Brosnan)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Me
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Apr 92 10:06:46 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (System Administration)
Organization: BNR Europe, New Southgate, London.
Lines: 7

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Cheez! Some people are so serious they never see the irony !!!!

While I'm sure Walter saw the funny side, I thought his article was an
interesting exercise in numerology.

    Pat
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!darwin.sura.net!wupost!psuvax1!psuvm!aly101
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.stupidity,alt.exploding.kibo
Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Apr 92 15:20:47 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Distribution: ca
Organization: Penn State University
Lines: 122
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5303 alt.slack:3037 alt.stupidity:4681 alt.exploding.kibo:214

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Roy
Anderson) says:
>
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (G.Argendeli-Sysop)
>writes:
>|> [e-mail] (Jeffrey Klein) writes:
>|>
>|> > In article <smedley.702576727@milton> [e-mail]
>(Willia
>|> > >[e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:
>|> > >
>|> > >>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Roger Lee) writes:
>|> > >>>In <[e-mail]>
>[e-mail]
>|> > >>>
>|> > >>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James
>'Kibo'
>Pa
>|> > >>>>>In article <[e-mail]>
>[e-mail]
>|> > >>>>>>In article <[e-mail]>
>[e-mail]
>|> > >>>>>>>In article <[e-mail]>
>waldbyjf@NeXTwo
>|> > >>>>>>>>In article <[e-mail]>
>|> > >>>>>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
>|> > >>>>>>>>> [e-mail] (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes:
>|> > >>>>>>>>> >In article <[e-mail]>
>|> > >>>>>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
>|> > >>>>>>>>> >>[e-mail] (Kevin L. McBride) writes:
>|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>[e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> In article <[e-mail]>
>|> > >>>>>>>>[e-mail] (barry.o.olson) writes:
>|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >In article <[e-mail]>,
>|> > >>>>>>>>[e-mail] (Russ Taylor) writes:
>|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> In article <[e-mail]>
>[e-mail]
>(J
>|> > >>>>>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed]
>|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS.
>|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper.
>|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH.  I WISH YOU PEOPLE
>WOUL
>|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*.
>|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop,
>but
>on
>|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents?  A thousand-degree flame on you!
>|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!)
>|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth?
>|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich
>|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width.
>|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it?
>|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it
>|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it.
>|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor
>|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor
>|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer.
>|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE?  PLEASE
>EXERC
>|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT.
>|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>Okay.
>|> > >>>>>>>>> >>       Come on guys, I think he means it.  Don't follow up to
>this.
>|> > >>>>>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious.
>|> > >>>>>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up.
>|> > >>>>>>>>> >Or kill me.
>|> > >>>>>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess.
>|> > >>>>>>>>Shhhh!
>|> > >>>>>>>>> >[e-mail]
>|> > >>>>>>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming  305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge
>MA
>|> > >>>>>>>>> >(  the  nonibo  -ibo  )  [phone] [home]  [phone]
>[of
>|> > >>>>>>>>>  No!  Don't follow up to this!  Whatever you do, _don't_ press
>|> > >>>>>>>>> that "f" button!  It's a sin!  It's a sin!  This is against the
>god
>|> > >>>>>>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly!  See what you do!  You    e
>wast
>a
>|> > >>>>>>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens!  Nay, until the
>|> > >>>>>>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the
>|> > >>>>>>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up!
>My
>|> > >>>>>>>>> _GOD_!  How can you even think it!  How can you dream it and
>still
>|> > >>>>>>>>> remain sane?!?!?  How can it be?!?!?!?!  Gah!!!!
>|> > >>>>>>>>> [e-mail]      | The meek shall inherit the     ,
>earth
>|> > >>>>>>>>> [e-mail] |  and the wise keep moving on...
>|> > >>>>>>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156     O
>|------------------------------------
>|> > >>>>>>>>>  Amherst, NY  14226      +    |Ask me about the Secret Society!
>Sh
>|> > >>>>>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion?
>I
>|> > >>>>>>>>missed the earlier parts.
>|> > >>>>>>There.  No more wasted "Bandwidth"
>|> > >>>>>Huh?
>|> > >>>>Duh!
>|> > >>>NOT!
>|> > >>Got.
>|> > >Gott.
>|> > What?
>|> Je Ne Comprends Pas.... Pas!
>Paass the pepper, salty!
Grass is healthy, mostly.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>|>
>|> ---
>|> "By this time, my lungs were aching for air!"  -MST3K
>|> Greg Argendeli, System Administrator ([e-mail])
>|> (bbs) [phone]| (Page) [phone] | (Voice) [phone]
>
>
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From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Apr 92 14:29:27 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
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I sent a copy of some of Gary Stollman's postings to a friend who is
knowledgeable about such things. He replies,

   "I really enjoyed the Stollman material. When Horowitz said, "Fight
    Back!" I don't think he meant with toy guns. He is a prize catch.
    The presence of Capgras' syndrome makes him a rara avis. Genital
    mutilation is a familiar theme in the literature on psychosis...

By way of explanation, he included the following:

    "The Capgras Syndrome and its Psychopathology" by B. Frank Vogel,
    M.D. (Am J Psychiatry 131:8, August 1974):

    ABSTRACT: Five case reports indicate that the Capgras syndrome, a
    condition in which the patient believes that a person closely
    related to him is actually an impostor, is far less rare than has
    been commonly accepted. The author discusses the psychodynamics,
    suggests that the syndrome itself is a massive defense system
    against disintegrative intrapsychic conflicts, and examines the
    clear-cut ego defense mechanisms employed.

    TEXT: Since it was first described in 1923, the Capgras syndrome has
    been accorded unusual respect and treatment because of its
    supposed rarity. From time to time, single cases have been
    reported as if each were a rara avis....

    Before going into the clinical material, it may be useful to
    recall the salient elements of Capgras syndrome. It has been
    found in schizophrenia and, infrequently, by itself or in
    affective psychoses. It has been described as a rare, colorful
    syndrome in which the patient believes that a person, usually
    closely related to him, has been replaced by an exact double....
    in all the cases I have studied, perception remained unimpaired,
    memory was intact, and there was no disorder of attention or
    concentration or any clouding of consciousness. In none of my
    patients was there any perceptible diminution of intellectual
    grasp....

So you see, Gary is a *very special* individual, and we should listen
to him with the kind of respect that such a person deserves!

--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

     "In the 1970's the world will undergo famines - hundreds of millions
     of people are going to starve to death in spite of any crash programs
     embarked upon now ... in 1985, when it is calculated [under the most
     optimistic scenario] that the major die-back will be over, ..."

                       Dr. Paul Ehrlich, "The Population Bomb," 1968
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From: [e-mail] (Bill Gunshannon)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: galactic ftp sites
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Apr 92 15:56:41 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: University of Scranton, Scranton, PA
Lines: 19
Nntp-Posting-Host: falcon.cs.uofs.edu

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
|>
|>
|>     Does anyone have a list of the newest inter-planetary/inter-glalatic
|>     ftp sites?
|>

Well, I hear there is a pretty good one on Mars at the Inter-Planetary Free University,
but the gateway seems tobe down again at the moment.

                                                      For the humor impaired  -->  :-)

bill

--

     Bill Gunshannon          |        If this statement wasn't here,
     [e-mail]   |  This space would be left intentionally blank
     [e-mail]    |         #include <std.disclaimer.h>
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From: [e-mail] (Mark Robert Thorson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Apr 92 15:21:36 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 39
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5306 alt.conspiracy:14150 talk.religion.newage:10074 alt.paranormal:4792

Gary, you're absolutely right!  I was one of those aliens, sent here
from Arcturus to spy and harass you Earthlings.  I would spend hours
following people around, draining their subtle life forces using
a portable orgone/prana collector.  I liked this work, because it allowed
me to spend my time walking around in the crowds of NEW YORK CITY, an
exciting place to be if you don't mind the smell of urine.  (It smells
like perfume to us Arcturans.)

But eventually our scientists developed a collector which can work
OVER THE PHONE.  If you've ever received one of those calls which
just rings once in the middle of the night, that was us
scooping up all the loose orgone in your house!

At that point, all of the collectors in the New York ORG were withdrawn
to a boiler room operation deep inside the hollow center of MT. LASSEN
in California.  Truly a boring place to be.

After two hours of that (our time sense is faster than yours, 2 hours ==
about three human years) I got real bored and escaped.  Since then I've
been surviving using my aural sight to pick out winning scratch-off
lottery tickets.

Every day, I see my fellow Arcturans penetrating deeper and deeper into
Earth society.  Didn't anybody find it surprising that YASSIR ARAFAT
survived a 300 mph plane crash without so much as a broken bone?
He's an Arcturan.

Did you notice how a certain left-handed vegetarian has located the
base for his powerful multimillion dollar prayer network in Virginia
Beach VA on top of the exact spot which was the site of EDGAR CAYCE's
home?  Yes, PAT ROBERTSON is another Arcturan.

And is it any coincidence that the heir apparent of the Republican
party is dominated by the forceful personality of his wife?
Yes, MARILYN QUAYLE is another Arcturan, and you could have seen
her on yesterday's (4/15) _The_700_Club_ being interviewed by Pat.

And how do you explain the incredible energy emanating from the hands
of BENNY HINN?  Yes friends, the Arcturans are everywhere!
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFO meeting in Berlin
Message-ID: <k![e-mail]>
Date: 16 Apr 92 17:02:46 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 25

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Steve Urich) writes:
>
>=>
>=>Meiner Erinnerung nach, war Armstrong Astronaut in der fruehern Tagen des US Space Program.  Ich habe nichts von seiner Roswell-Aktivitaeten gehoert.  Sind Sie sicher, dass diesen Mann gutglaeubig ist?  Entw. echt Astronaut od. echt Roswellzeuge?
              Nein, nein!  (That's all the German I know.)

>    There was a Neal Armstrong and I think a Virgil Armstrong that were
>    Astronauts. I vaguely remember Virgil (Astronaut) Armstrong, didn't
>    he die in a fire accident on the ground while they were waiting for
>    lift off?
>
    Neal ARMSTRONG was an astronaut, as was the late VIRGIL Grissom, who
    died in the launchpad fire of Apollo 1.
--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

     "In the 1970's the world will undergo famines - hundreds of millions
     of people are going to starve to death in spite of any crash programs
     embarked upon now ... in 1985, when it is calculated [under the most
     optimistic scenario] that the major die-back will be over, ..."

                       Dr. Paul Ehrlich, "The Population Bomb," 1968
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From: [e-mail] (The Xanadian)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space
Subject: Re: THE FEDERATIONERS HAVEN'T DIED!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Apr 92 16:11:35 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Maine System
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I'm finding it hard to reply by mail... do you have an alternate address?
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From: [e-mail] (Gary Stimpson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: ELECTRONIC IMPLANTS MADE BY HUMANS
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Apr 92 15:35:28 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (BBS Account)
Organization: The Orion Unix System [A/UX 2.0.1], Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Lines: 31

The Xanadian <[e-mail]> writes:

> <A guy talks about these implants>
>
> Now something has just occurred to me... and it may belong in talk.religion.
> misc, but here goes:
>
> I read in a book about the Antichrist a looong time ago <I think the title
> was 'The Late Great Planet Earth'> about how the Antichrist would have each
> human being tagged with this '666' number.
>
> Could it *be*, that this microelectronic tracking device is the predecessor
> to the 'number'?  The way 'Samurai_Writer' put it, it would seem, to me,
> that it, in fact, *is*.

I've read 'The Late Great Planet Earth Too'.  Not a bad book, although the
author thinks we (Christians) will be raptured BEFORE the tribulation.  I
don't believe that, I think we will go through it.  Anyways, the mark of the
beast will be either on the wrist or the forehead.  You can understand that
this would be the most convienent way for say a scanner.  I think the mark
will be put on by some type of laser.  It will be visible ONLY by a scanner
type device.

What I'm interested in now, is if these UFOs have anything to do with the
end-time events.  Interesting..

Gary

--
[e-mail] (Gary Stimpson)
The Orion Unix System [A/UX 2.0.1], Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFO meeting in Berlin
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Apr 92 22:49:10 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Indiana University
Lines: 41
Nntp-Posting-Host: indyvax.iupui.edu

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Steve Urich) writes:
>
> [e-mail] (Clark Matthews) writes:
> [...]
> => > Virgil Armstrong,   USA,    Sponsor, as secret service
> => >                             officer he works
> => >                             on the recovery of the first
> => >                             UFO, found 1948 in
> => >                             the USA.
> =>
> =>Meiner Erinnerung nach, war Armstrong Astronaut in der fruehern Tagen des US Space Program.  Ich habe nichts von seiner Roswell-Aktivitaeten gehoert.  Sind Sie sicher, dass diesen Mann gutglaeubig ist?  Entw. echt Astronaut od. echt Roswellzeuge?
>
>     Woher haste dass gelesen dass der Virgil ein weltraumfahrer war?
>     Ich glaube nicht dass Virgil Armstrong erst ein `Secret Service' agent
>     wahr und dann blotzlich seinem beruf verandert. :-)
>
>
> =>[To our American listeners -- I'm wondering if *anyone* has heard of Virgil Armstrong's involvement in the Roswell case?  I've never heard of this guy.  Could it be a *different* Virgil Armstrong?
>
>     Different? Sounds like too much magic "UH-HUH" ingredient to me :-).
>     If he was in the Secret Service its probably a phoney name.
>     There was a Neal Armstrong and I think a Virgil Armstrong that were
>     Astronauts.

No, you're confusing Neal Armstrong, who did research on exchange rates for
carbon, nitrogen, and phosphorus in the Nueces and San Antonio Bay marshes
for the Texas Water Development Board, with Neil Armstrong, the ex-astronaut
who was the first man to set foot on the moon.

>                 I vaguely remember Virgil (Astronaut) Armstrong, didn't
>     he die in a fire accident on the ground while they were waiting for
>     lift off?

The name is Virgil I. "Gus" Grissom.  The fire accident occurred during
systems testing of the pressurized capsule on the ground; no launch was
planned for that day.

--
James Harvey
[e-mail] (preferred) or [e-mail]
Remember, there are only 2,816 shopping days left until January 1st, 2000!
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From: [e-mail] (Josh 'K' Hopkins)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space
Subject: Re: THE FEDERATIONERS HAVEN'T DIED!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Apr 92 22:54:32 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
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[e-mail] writes:


>The project is trying to create a drive crystal that if
>succesful will go beyond using rocket fuel. It's a long description.

    Your credibility would go way up (and you'd get much more interest)
if you or someone else involved would post an explanation of how this works.

>  In trying to think on how to create money for it. they deicied to create
>2 microelectronic gagdets, These, if a patent is granted, may create the money
>we need to build  the drive engine to get off this planet.

    Don't forget that just patenting something doesn't make money.  You
are going to need to invest in production, marketing and manufacturing so that
you can actually sell these 'gadgets.'  You will also need to be able to
explain what they do.


            Josh Hopkins
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From: [e-mail] (We make money the ole fashioned way. We beat people for it.)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Apr 92 01:01:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: University at Buffalo
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News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.41
Nntp-Posting-Host: ubvmsd.cc.buffalo.edu

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Mark Robert Thorson) writes...

Gary, let me put this to you lightly.  I was willing to give you a total
shadow of a doubt reading your article.  What I find to help me think
your story questionable, is the fact that your real parents keep
coming back, and then being replaced, back and forth.  This is not
highly improbable, but just plain, well, insane.

*******************************************************************************
"Groovy!" - Ash "Evil Dead II : Dead By Dawn" (1987)
*******************************************************************************
"Fans are interesting things. Rush fans just can't comprehend why the
rest of the world doesn't like Rush. REM fans consider the rest of the world
beneath their social level to notice. Kate Bush fans love the rest of the
world, and the world loves them, but spend long nights plotting to knife
one another."                    --Richard Darwin
                                   Richard Darwin #33, "Gradenza"
*******************************************************************************
"It's Nothing.  It's just a private joke between me and whoever is going to
be my analyst."  - Cary Grant "Mr. Blandings Builds His Dream House" (1948)
*******************************************************************************
v129j6ed@ubvms
The KaTeFan(tm)
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: ELECTRONIC IMPLANTS MADE BY HUMANS
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 16 Apr 92 17:42:46 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Illinois at Chicago
Lines: 9

Very Interesting, indeed!  When I was the mall a few months ago, I received a f
lyer(so did every other car in the ENTIRE parking lot!) from a "religious" grou
p (sorry, i'm not sure) that stated that plans were under way in the Netherland
s (Banking Central of the world :-) ) to develop a sort of UPC code for humans!
(a.k.a elctronic implant?)  But there's more, It also said how every credit car
d has a special code (i'm not sure but Visa is 777, Am. Express is 999,etc.) an
d this new "UPC" code is 666!!!!  So they were stating that the asnti-christ is
not some stupid devil, but rather our fellow humans in power!  This is all from
memory, i'm sorry, but that was the theme pretty much!  Whaddya think???
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From: [e-mail] (James Davis Nicoll)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Apr 92 00:50:01 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Waterloo
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Mark Robert Thorson) writes:
>Gary, you're absolutely right!  I was one of those aliens, sent here
>from Arcturus to spy and harass you Earthlings.

    Ha! Arcturus is population II, and doesn't have those heavy elements
so vital to terrestrial planet forming, technology, life and a sense of
humor. Clearly an attempt at disinformation: just what kind of fools do
you take us for?

                            James Nicoll
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From: [e-mail] (Robert Wyatt)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: PRIVATELY FUNDED SPACE EXPLORATION
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Apr 92 04:06:33 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (The News System)
Organization: Harvey Mudd College
Lines: 18

I read the post on privately funded space exploration and must admit
to being somewhat of a skeptic.  But, the idea of privately funded
space exploration has interested me for quite a while and I would
love to hear more of this group's ideas.  I tried replying by EMAIL,
but my mail was returned.  Please email me further info. or post an
alternate way for me to get in touch.

Thanks !

Robert Wyatt

Internet:  [e-mail]

or, if that doesn't work,

[e-mail]

or, if that doesn't work, I don't know...
Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!udel!gvls1!widener!beyonet!beyo
From: [e-mail] (Steve Urich)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFO meeting in Berlin
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Apr 92 04:55:20 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <k![e-mail]>
Organization: Beyonet Network
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[e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
[...]
>    Neal ARMSTRONG was an astronaut, as was the late VIRGIL Grissom, who
>    died in the launchpad fire of Apollo 1.
>--
    See I was close :-). Oh well I knew that Virgil Grissom sounded
    very familiar. Confusing the to 2 together backs a neeto phoney
    UFO investigator name... Don't you think :-).

    Steve

--
 ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############
 ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA  USA    |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########
 ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############
 ####       #### snark!beyonet!beyo   |when I hit the Screen"  ####       ####
 ##    |_|    ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project  ##    |_|    ##
 ##           ##-----------------------------------------------##           ##
 ####       ####  Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#SEPA.PA.USA.NA  ####       ####
_###############_______________________________________________###############_
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!news.cs.indiana.edu!umn.edu!lynx!carina.unm.edu!vjmurphy
From: [e-mail] (Phred T. Platypus)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFO meeting in Berlin
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Apr 92 04:38:19 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <k![e-mail]>
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Lines: 25

In article <k![e-mail]> [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Steve Urich) writes:
>              Nein, nein!  (That's all the German I know.)

      More than I know.

>
>>    There was a Neal Armstrong and I think a Virgil Armstrong that were
>>    Astronauts. I vaguely remember Virgil (Astronaut) Armstrong, didn't
>>    he die in a fire accident on the ground while they were waiting for
>>    lift off?
>>
>    Neal ARMSTRONG was an astronaut, as was the late VIRGIL Grissom, who
>    died in the launchpad fire of Apollo 1.
>--

    Actually, it was NEIL Armstrong.



--
"You ask me if sex is one of the most  _\_\    _/_/     Phred Platypus
 important things in life?  Absolutely. _\_\  _/_/  Grammarian of Vengeance
 But the lack of it is even likelier     _\_\_/_/ [ [e-mail] ]
 to drive you nuts." -- Harlan Ellison    _\_/       Vincent J. Murphy
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From: [e-mail] (Gary Stollman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Apr 92 06:17:59 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Case Western Reserve University, Cleveland, Ohio, (USA)
Lines: 16
Nntp-Posting-Host: cwns1.ins.cwru.edu


Come on!!!  Give me a break!!!  The shrinnk I was seeing in
Tallahassee last year before I dropped him told me about this
nonsense...Listen, you better get something and get it good;
I am NOT insane, and this is ALL true, and by next week you
may wish you had a one-way ticket to Mars!!  If you don't believe
me, check out where this is coming from, then check out my new
signature...Nice, ain't it??

    Gary
--
Gary Stollman       GEnie:G.STOLLMAN
                    Internet:[e-mail]
Don't think I'm crazy cause I know twenty computer languages and
have stolen more time on computers for free than you know about!!
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space
Subject: Re: trouble answering Federation post.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Apr 92 16:04:43 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Alaska
Lines: 12
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Nntp-Posting-Host: acad2.alaska.edu


you should be able to answer via the address on the side but if you are
having troulbe, though i can't think why at the moment, trying sending to
me again, if no response , try vms, i don't know what you all call it.
We use the Vms mail system up here. I can't remember what it stands for.
well anyway, try putting   psalp where asljl is, maybe it will work.

At any rate if that doesn't work ask what it is you want to know and I'll
answer from here.

Signed
Lady Rhavyn.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Ufo Magazine.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Apr 92 03:41:00 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO
Lines: 13


 > Thanks for the address, Michael (Corbin).  I just need one more question
 >
 > answered.  How much does it cost to subscribe (American $$'s)?

$21.00

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space
Subject: Re: Federation Answers All Your Questions
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Apr 92 16:30:39 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Alaska
Lines: 1054
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5321 sci.space:29117
Nntp-Posting-Host: acad2.alaska.edu


 You wanted a longer explaintion. Here it is. May I suggest not saving this to
anyones file. It eats memory! At any rate some of this sound presumtious
and egotistical I admit. But remeber this was written by the group who
wants to get off the planet and colonize else where. Some of it should
be looked at from a humorous point of veiw, others parts taken more seriously.
I wish you all luck in decifering this little jewel. I 'll probably
get repremanded for this but since so many had questions I though this would be
the best way to answer all of you.

Signed
Lady Rhavyn
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Message begins here.

1   Federation Data-Packet


The Federation Computer-Communications Net.

Pre-planning and Financing Structures

Project Review:   The Federation Computer and Communications Network will be an
international computer database designed for and dedicated to the theoretical,
development,  and building of low-cost, new-technologies, next generation space
vehicles.  The final goal is  to create a trans-light interstellar capable
star-ship to explore and map the galaxy.

To accomplish the Federation Com - Comm Net's activities, the Federation must
first be  assembled and placed within reach of the worlds population.  This
operation will include the  funding to purchase a large, time-sharing capacity
main-frame computer, appropriate  telecommunications links, software packages
for graphic's, time-management, mathematics,  office management, etc.,.   This
phase of the Federation must be accomplished by a third party organization
which is  at present non-aligned with any other high-capital investment
projects.  The goals of this  Third-Party will be to generate the needed
investment capital for the Federation equipment,  marketing, and personnel.

Operations Proposal:   To create, manage and develop the Federation Com - Comm
Net a  private sector business must be created, who's sole interests and
concern is the formation of  the Federation.   This Corporation must be of
necessity small, with a Board of Directors holding complete and  non-electoral
control of the full resources of the Corporate resources.  It must be able to
maximum it's potential and mobilize all it's creative resources at a moments
notice to gain the  highest possible return on it's investment.   Road Runner
Incorporated ( R.R.I. ) will function as the Federations start-up corporate
sponsor.  Effectively R.R.I. will be a Management/Holding company who's sole
duty will be to  amass the needed liquid capital for the purchase and
organization of the Federations basic  infra-structure.   In order to begin
gathering funds, R.R.I. will operate  Extended Realities, a reading house for
Literary projects now in development.  By reading  and critiquing stories and
manuscripts.  The company will get a portion of the stories sale  value back
upon acceptance by a major publishing concern.  With the sales of stories and
books, R.R.I.  will then select and engage the services of a Literary Agent to
submit the work to  Entertainment Companies and individuals.  Again, R.R.I.
will receive a portion of the sales  value.   The Acme Corporation, for the
conceptualization, design, patenting, and creation of  electronic gadgets, for
sales across the world.  As in the Reading house a portion of the gross  sales
will be returned to the company.   And any other business which may develop out
of the activites mentioned.

Corporate Structure:   Road Runner Incorporated will have only three basic,
permanent  Officers.   Chief Operating Executive;  This position will include
all business planning, structure  development, and legal filing that the
company will need handling while it is in development.   Operations Executive;
This position will be responsible for all supervisory activities of the
company operations.  Over-seeing the development and progress of projects
authorized,  inspection and constant approval of bookkeeping and office
management, etc.,. Development Executive;  This position will undertake the
creation and development of the  first generation of products R.R.I. submits
for sales.   All other personnel and departments will be temporary aid and
support to these three  positions, hired as necessary on a contractual basis.
The governing management authority  and control of all corporate assets will
reside solely will the three Officers at all times.

Technical Operations:   The Secondary goal of Road Runner Incorporated will be
the  development and harnessing of all technologies required to bring the
Federation Com - Comm  Net into being.   Broken down to it's simplest measure,
this means that while R.R.I. is purchasing and  constructing the hardware and
software infra-structure of the Federation, it will be learning  and culling
the system until the personnel and technology are adequate to the task laid out
for  the project.   Computer training and education will be necessary for a
short period of time to acquaint  the corporate members with the system and
it's capabilities.  During this time, technical and  expert help in the fields
of computers, software, communications, international law and  marketing will
be contracted to lay out the full project start up system.   This will allow
R.R.I. to develop the needed internal departments and communications  pathways
to handle bring the Federation into being when all the resources are in place.
In  effect, R.R.I. will place the corporate structure it has build up as the
working body of the  Federation, while it's corporate status in-turn leases the
services of the Federation system, so  that the Officers of R.R.I. can return
the corporation to a purely profit making organization.

Executive Operations:   Besides promoting and aiding in the sales of literary
work, Road  Runner Incorporated will also have several other parallel
operations in development.   Before the purchase and start-up of the computer
network, R.R.I. will be collecting and  contacting groups and organizations
will the same basic philosophy and attitude toward space  travel.  An extended
period of postal and telecommunications exchange will be needed to gauge  the
relative strength and size of the economic market of the Federation.   This
program will not only be within the state of Alaska, but also the United States
and  beyond.  Such groups as the Star Trek Fan clubs, Science Fiction
Conventions, etc., will all be  targeted as potential user-groups and contacts
for the Federation activities.   A second program the R.R.I. will be activating
during this period is to contact groups who  are already financing and building
Alternative Space Transport Systems ( A.S.T.S. ).  Interest  and financial
membership in the Federation Net would be worth a great deal to these groups,
helping them solve technical and legal problems at minimum cost.   Research
into the number, location and address of these groups will be on going as
R.R.I.  consolidates it position and resources.  As the information concerning
each independent  organization and group is gathered, it will be added to the
Database of E.R.O.A.'s system.  This  will be the base group from which the
first wave of membership is expected.  In time,  technical support groups such
as the Aero-Space industry, Collegiate Science organizations,  etc., will be
targeted to join the Federation Com - Comm Net.   By the time activation of the
Federation Com - Comm Net system is announced, R.R.I. should  have achieved an
international list of contacts and organizations which will have already  have
set up pilot computer files, and user-groups.  These data-loads will be
down-loaded into  the Federation system upon activation according to a
pre-determined set of Department and  research files.

Activation of Road Runner Incorparated:   Road Runner Incorporated will begin
operations  upon the first installment of payment from sales from any of it's
literary materials.  This  money will be taken to a pre-chosen bank and placed
in an account, type to be determined by  the Executive Board, where it will be
used for E.R.O.A.'s financial needs.   This account will continue to be a
private account until the dollar amount reaches ten  thousand dollars ( $
10,000.00 ) where upon incorporation papers will be taken out in the name  of
Extended Realties of Alaska.  At this time the Officer will be named and all
pertinent  information will be placed in the official records.  A Charter will
be drawn up by the Executive  Board and business strategies and
responsibilities will be laid out.   Once the Incorporation papers are legally
validated by the State of Alaska and the United  States Government, R.R.I. will
begin searching for legal agents to execute the decisions of the  Executive
Board.  A Literary Agent, Legal Counsel, Electronic, Computer, Software,
Telecommunications business's to deal with the complexities and problems which
will be  encountered, will all have to be found, and agreed upon.   After the
literary business Department is assembled and functioning, the greater area's
of  computer networking, software management, and international contacts will
have to be  developed.


The Federation Computer-Communications Net.

A Prospectus of Concept, Planning,
Operations and Goals.

Concept Proposal:   A large capacity, time-sharing computer-software complex,
with data- base/graphics computer and software connected to 1-900 pay-per-call
phone lines, with  computer access tie-ins to other computer service companies.
Combining a limited A.I. (  Artificial Intelligence ) higher-archal file
data-base with Auto-Cad and graphic's programs (   A layered, nested processor
driven data-plus-plus multi-operational/simultaneous designed  system.), people
can log on and help formulate designs and criteria for the next generation of
space vehicles.   Placing advertisements in science fiction magazines and
aero-space electronic, science,  and physical technical journals, people are
asked to start developing their idea's on a new  space ship.

Planning Phase:   Before any capital investment can be made, the outlines and
aspects of  the operation must be laid out.  The organization will require a
large capacity Main-Frame  Computer or Mini-Computer Business Model.  The
machine chosen will have to have a  minimum of 100 MB of RAM capacity, Storage
Bays, compatibility with LAN,* WAN* and PBX*  Services, and work-group
graphic/text interfaces.  A Main-Frame with Systemizing linkages  and multiple
modem switching capacity and up gradable multi-port sequential/parallel hard-
drive hook-ups would seem to be the most cost-effective hardware package
presently available.   A C.D.-ROM high density data drive be able to handle
major data-base information storage.  To operate this hardware complex, the
organization should consider AutoCAD*, Operating  Systems Language Files,
Information Project Management package ( Idea Fisher,* MaxThink,*  Super
Project Expert,*  etc.)  Microsoft,* Pagemaker,* Mathematical package (
Mathmatica,*  Sigma Plot*, Statgraphics,* etc.)  Accounting package ( Market
Analyzer,*  DAC Accounting,*   Rapid Tax,*  etc.).  To manage and control the
software selections and operations Memory  Management software must also be
purchased along with a Higher-Archal over all control  program.   Office
equipment for day to day business and correspondences must include a Laser
Printer, Text Scanner ( With software package.), and Photocopier with
enlarge/reducer  capacity.  A high-capacity Color Plotter would need to be
purchased at a later date.   1 - 900 pay-per-call multi input/output
communications telephone lines with international  microwave-satellite links
needs to be bought and licensed.   Selling of time/space on the Net to special
Vendors to carry Federation products.

Aside from the machinery needed, to start-up the Federation Com-Comm Net,
defined  parameter for the business operations of the project must be
established.   The Federation Computer-Communications Net will be open access
for any person with a  Computer and modem for a user fee per-call.  This fee
will depend on phone and operating  expenses incurred in the start-up process.
Expected cost range from $1.00 per minute, to $10.00  per minute.   For those
people who wish a greater participation in the over-all project.  The
Federation  Com-Comm Net will offer two levels of membership.  The first level
of membership purchased  for a $25.00-a-year fee will entitle the individual to
a button/badge certifying membership, a  Federation I.D. number, placement on
the Federation Mailing List, and a New Year Newsletters  dispatched to them via
Electronic Mail or Postal Mail concerning the state of the Project.   Second
Level Membership for a price of $100.00-a-year will entitle the individual to
all  Level One items, plus reduced price for extended computer log-on time,
Vendor exclusion  option,  Bulletin board rental option, Franchise rights to
open up a Federation Micro-Net in  their own community as an Outpost of the
Federation.   As part of the Federation Com-Comm Net the members will be expect
to participate in global  policy debates and the selection of Delegates for the
First Grand Assembly of the Federation.   These Delegations will be the
outgrowth of Fan-clubs and Fanzines now in existence.  The idea  is to link the
groups for a common purpose and under a single Federation Charter to be drawn
up by the Members themselves via computers.   By the end of the first year, the
members of  the Federation will elect representatives from their groups and
convene a Federation Grand  Assembly (  A Super-Trek Convention ), where the
Charter will be drawn up and signed.  The  Official Computer File holding the
Charter and all the legal, members will be placed in the  Official Archives of
the Federation.   Each group will arrange themselves in what ever manner they
choose and send one duly  elected Representative to the Federation Grand
Assembly Convention.  The Representative may  be accompanied by a
Alternate/Co-Representative.  But the Senior Representative will be the  only
one who votes in Conclave.  All members may sit in on the Conclave via the
Federation  Com-Comm Net, advising their representatives of their ideas and
choices.  Delegates from the  various Federation groups will work on by-laws
and charters.   Operations:   To begin the Federation Computer-Communications
Net an intensive, but  simple advertising campaign must be set in motion
two-to-three months prior to the actual on- line activities of the Net.   Print
advertisement in leading Technical Journals dealing with Aero-Space products,
Computers, Electronics, Atomic Research etc., should be the first step in this
phase of the  Project.  Concentrating on people alienated by the elitist
attitude created by the Governments  Space Program and the general disgust with
the slow pace thus far.  Simple, short, eye- catching two color displays can be
created to reach the public, and potential members.   Secondary actives should
include personal contact with Science Fiction T.V., Movie, and  Book club
members, letting them know about the soon to be on-line system.  Phone calls
and  letters should be exchanged to establish a mailing and personnel database
for use in selecting  test markets and hardware testing targets.  Presentation
at various Science Fiction Conventions  will also have to be used to aid in
this pre-activation schedule.  The addresses and members of  Trek, Dr. Who,
etc.,. fan-clubs should be collected and promotional material including
personal  telephone briefing forwarded to them.   The key to succeeding in this
project is the proper saturation of the market place, making  sure the
population knows that this is now available and how to get in touch.  The price
list and  options must also be made clear.   Once the On-Line activation has
been achieved and the concern shifts from set-up to  membership activities, a
one-to-three month period may be anticipated in which minor  procedural
problems can be worked out concerning data-links and Federation Policy.
After the majority of the technical and business methods are straightened out,
the  emphasis of the Project will be to enlarge the international Federation
membership.  Using  existing Fan Club and Fanzine structures presently in-place
it is possible to increase the  Federation membership with only a minor
advertising budget increase.   A must in this project is the firm understanding
to all, that total and complete freedom of  access exist.  The Federation Net
exist for the benefit of all humankind.  Once people join the  Federation,
nation of origin, religion, language, political persuasion, etc, mean nothing.
They  are members of the Federation, and are believers in the concept of
Humanities bright Future.   When the project reaches capital investment return
and break-even monetary levels,  launching of the next branch of the Federation
should occur.  The creation of the Federation  Science Academy to study and
refine developments created on the Federation Com-Comm Net  and act as a
traveling Press corp for the Federation.   The Federation Science Academy will
in the first stages of development be nothing more  than a traveling show to
promote the Federation at Conventions, and Meetings.  Dressed in  Federation
style outfits and make-up they will work the Convention circuit across the
globe.   In the latter phase of development, the Federation Science Academy
will function as a  conduit for the building of the Federations first original
hardware.  By demonstrating the  short comings of the present computers and
systems in use to develop the space vehicles, the  Science Academy will promote
the idea of member groups getting together and making one,  two dollar piece of
hardware from the blue prints on the Net.  If a million people are hard core
members.  Statistically ten thousand of those are high-tech workers.  By market
survey count,  there are at least forty million people in the U.S. alone who
follow Science Fiction  entertainment.  Now push that number up to an
international scale and consider that some of  these people will work in
electronic factories, aero-space factories, etc.     With the blue-print
available to all members on the Federation Com-Comm Net, people  across the
planet can manufacture parts either in their own home workshops, or after hours
at work.  By this method the mailing and delivery system for the Federation
Science Academy's  new computer will be worked out.  Once demonstrated that the
science works, the third phase  of the project will be entered into.  The
members will be asked to concentrate on a constant  boost, shuttle craft.

Goals:   After the completion of the Federation Science Academy, the Federation
Com-Comm Net  will concentrate on the development and creation of a constant
boost space vehicle which can  be used to move to and from orbit economically
and without lengthy lay overs.  This Shuttle  Craft will be the work horse of
the Federation in the coming decade.   Conceived as the twenty first century
equivalent to the covered wagon, it should be  manufactured out of common,
durable materials.  Once designed and built, in the same manner  as the
Federation Science Academy computer, the first shuttle craft will be used to
shift the  base of the Federation Com-Comm Net off Earth and onto Luna.  This
move will give legitimate  status to the Federation and guarantee that no Earth
Government can shut-down or coerce the  members.  With no Nationalistic
allegiances, the Federation can serve all of Humanity equally,  claiming no
favoritism.  A U.N. special operations status can be granted once this move is
completed.   With the Lunar site colonized, the Federation will assemble all
the technical data needed to  manufacture the shuttle craft and publish this
data for all nations and private industries to use  in their space programs, in
hopes of witnessing a migration of people up from Earth to  colonize the Moon.
Once firmly established in a Lunar Enclave, the Federation will set out to
construct an  orbiting dry-dock from which a Star-ship will be built.   To fund
this project, the Federation will offer space in their Enclave and orbiting
station to  Research Universities, Movie Production Companies etc.,.  The
creation and operation of the  First Star Ship by humanity is the final goal of
the Federation Com-Comm Net.   A better world for all is the goal of the
Federation members.

CHAPTER I

Purposes and Principles

ARTICLE 1:   STATEMENT OF RIGHTS:

Intelligence is the realization of self, and the inherent dignity of Life.  All
Intelligent- Beings are regarded by this document to possess in full measure,
each Right expressed;

1.}       Freedom of Thought, Speech, Expression, Press and Transmission of data;

2.}     Freedom of Religious Belief, Creed, Doctrine and Worship;

3.}    Freedom of Movement from and among District, State, Nation, Planet,
Star System;

4.}    Freedom of Assembly

5.}    Freedom to Bear, Possess, Own and Operate any and all firearms;

6.}    Freedom to Petition the Federation and/or any member for Redress of
Grievance;

7.}    Freedom to Vote or Choose Representation in Civil, Criminal, Business,
or Political  activities;

8.}    Freedom to Participate in the Legal/Judicial system.

9.}    Freedom to refuse to answer any question without Prejudice or Guilt.

10.}    Freedom to have all Legal Documents and Laws stated in a clearly
understandable  language;

11.}    Freedom to chose individual Social, Economic, Political, Religious, and
Health Self- Determination;

12.}    Freedom to require the Federation's aid and support when any Right is
infringed or  deprived.

No Government, organization, private or public group or individual may deny,
infringe  or abridge in any way these Rights.  The Federation and all it's
Members, weather Nation, or  individual is pledged to support and honor these
Rights.

Article 2:   The Purpose of the Federation are;

1.]    The Federation is based on the Sovereign Equality of all its Members;

2.]    To develop friendly relations among all, based on respect for the
Principles of equal  Rights and self-determination of Intelligent Life-Forms,
and to other appropriate measures to  strengthen universal peace;

3. ]    To achieve cooperation in solving common problems of Economic, Social,
Cultural, or  Humanitarian character;  in promoting and encouraging respect for
Intelligent Life-Form  Rights;  and for the Fundamental Freedoms for all
without distinction as to Culture, Sex, Life- Form, or Religious Belief; and

4.]    To be a center for coalescence of all actions of all Social Systems in
the attainment of  these common ends.

Article 3:   Obligations to the Federation;

1.]    No Member shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the
privileges or  immunities of any citizens of the Federation; nor shall any
Member deprive any person of life,  liberty, or property, without due process
of law;  nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction  the equal protection
of the laws.

2.]    The United Federation shall place no restriction on the eligibility of
male and female  Life-Forms of any Member Social System to participate in any
capacity under conditions of  Equality in its Principle and subsidiary
agencies.

3.]    The citizens of each Member shall be entitled to all privileges and
immunities of  citizens in the Federation.

4.]    In order to ensure to all of them the Rights and Benefits resulting
from Membership,  all Members fulfill in good faith the obligations assumed by
them in accordance with these  Articles of Federation;

5.]       All Members shall settle their disputes by peaceful means in such
manner that Peace,  Security, and Justice, are not endangered;

6.]    In all relations, all Members shall refrain from the threat or use, of
force against the  territorial integrity or political independence of any
Social System, or in any manner  inconsistent with the Purpose of the
Federation;

7.]    All Members shall give the Federation every assistance in any action
taken in  accordance with these Articles of Federation, and shall refrain from
assisting any Social  System against which the Federation is taking
preventative or enforcement action;

Article 4:   Sovereign Rights of the Members;  1.]    Nothing within these
Article of Federation shall authorize the Federation to intervene  in matters
which are essentially the domestic jurisdiction of any Social System, or shall
require the Members to submit such matters to settlement under these Articles
of Federation;   But this Principle shall not prejudice the application of
enforcement measures under Chapter  VII.

2.]    A person charged by any Member with treason, felony, or other crime,
who shall flee  from justice, and be found in another Member, shall on demand
of the executive authority of  the Member from which he fled, be delivered up,
to be removed to the Member having  jurisdiction of the crime.

3.]     No person held to service or labor in one Member, under the laws
thereof, escaping  into another, shall in consequence of any law or regulation
therein, be discharged from such  service or labor, but shall be delivered up
on claim of the party to whom such service or labor  may be due.

4.]    Nothing in these Articles of Federation shall invalidate or preclude
action in relation to  any Social System which has been an adversary of any
signatory to these Articles of  Federation, taken or authorized as a result of
that war by the governments having  responsibility for such action;

CHAPTER IV

The Federation Assembly

ARTICLE 9:   Composition; The Federation Assembly Shall consist of all the
Social System Members of the  Federation.  Each Member shall be entitled to
have not more than five ( 5 ) Representatives in  this body;

ARTICLE 10:   Functions and Powers; The Federation Assembly may discuss any
question on any matters within the scope of  these Articles of Federation or
relating to the powers and functions of any Agencies provided  for in these
Articles of Federation and, except as provided in Article 12, may make
recommendations to the Members and the Federation Council or both on any such
question or  matters;

ARTICLE 11 1.]    The Federation Assembly shall have power:  To lay and collect
duties, imports and  excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common
defense and general welfare of The  Federation;  but all duties, imports and
excises shall be uniformed throughout The Federation;

2.]    To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the Members;

3.]    To establish a uniform rule of naturalization, and uniform laws;

4.]    To promote the progress of science and useful arts, by securing for
limited times to  authors and inventors the exclusive right to their respective
writings and discoveries, and aid  in the marketing for a nominal 2% fee from
Royalty payments within the first seven years;

5.]    To declare war, grant letters of marquee and reprisal, and make rules
concerning  capture;

6.]    To make rules for the regulation of the Armed and Fleet force;

7.]    To provide for calling forth the militia to execute the laws of the
Federation, suppress  insurrections and repel invasions;

8.]    To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and
for governing  such part of them as may be employed in the service of The
Federation, reserving to the  Members respectively, the appointment of
Officers, and the authority of training the militia  according to the
discipline prescribed by The Federation Assembly;

9.]      To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into
execution the  foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by these Articles
of Federation in the  Government of The Federation, or in any department or
officer thereof;

10.]    The migration or importation of persons shall not be prohibited by The
Federation  Assembly;

11.]    No capitation [ or other direct ]  tax shall be laid.

12.]    No preference shall be given by any regulation of commerce or revenue
to the ports of  one Member over those of another:  nor shall vessels bound to,
or from. one member, be  obliged to enter, clear or pay duties in another;

13.]    No money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in consequence of
appropriations  made by law;  and a regular statement and account of the
receipts and expenditures of all  public money shall be published from time to
time;

14.]    No title of nobility shall be granted by The Federation:  And no person
holding any  office of profit or trust under them, shall, without the consent
of The Federation Assembly,  accept of any present, emolument, office, or
title, of any kind whatever, from any king, prince  or foreign State;

15.]    The Federation Assembly may call situations which are likely to
endanger the Peace  and Security to the attention of the Federation Council;

16.]    The Federation shall erect no monument, or pay for the construction of
a monument,  dedicated to any individual, or event concerning actions,
behaviors, beliefs or lack thereof to  any person belonging to the Federation,
Member, or Foreign Nation;

17.]    The Federation Assembly, Council, or any agency connected to the
Federation may not  pass any law or create a security, police or enforcement
organization better armed then the  free citizenry, nor larger then ten percent
( 10% ) the total population of the Federation as a  whole.  No security,
police or enforcement organization in any community, ship, or outpost  may be
larger then ten percent ( 10% ) of the total number of citizens.   The
security, police or enforcement organization may upon  criteria approved of by
the  Federation Assembly deputize armed citizens to aid in the subduing and
apprehension of  suspect criminals.

18.]    The Federation Assembly, Council, or any agency connected to the
Federation may not  pass any law requiring the wearing of uniforms, and/or
specific attire.  Members/citizens  may wear any clothing they deem
appropriate.  This includes Armed Forces, Law Enforcement,  Security, Court,
etc.,.

ARTICLE 12 1.]    Where the Federation Council is executing the functions
assigned to it under these  Articles of Federation with respect to any dispute
or situation,  The Federation Assembly shall  make no recommendation with
regard to that dispute or situation unless so requested by the  Federation
Council.

2.]    The Administration-Section, shall notify the Federation Assembly at
each session of any  matters relating to the maintenance of Peace and Security
which are under discussion in the  Federation Council, and shall notify the
Federation Assembly or the Members if the Federation  Assembly is not in
session, immediately when the Federation Council completes its  deliberations
on any such matters.

3.]    The Federation Assembly shall meet in two ( 2 ) sixty ( 60 ) day
sessions each year to  debate recent developments, propose Laws, and carry out
those duties as set out in these  Articles of Federation.  The First Session of
the Assembly shall begin on the first ( 1 ) day of the  first ( 1 ) month of
the new year.  The second session will start following six ( 6 ) months after
the close of the first ( 1 ) session.  The last thirty ( 30 ) days of the
second session shall be  devoted to retiring of outdated laws presented to the
Assembly by Members, Citizens or the  Administration-Section.

ARTICLE 17:   Budget;

1.]    The Federation Assembly shall consider and approve the budget of the
Federation;

2.]    Part of the expense of the Federation shall be borne by the Members as
apportioned by  the Federation Assembly;

3.]    Part of the expenses of the Federation shall come from leasing natural
and scientific  resources controlled as Federation Assets.  These asset may
include real property, ( floor space  within Federation Enclaves ), transport
facilities ( space flight;  passenger service, freight,  research etc.,.)
service leasing ( telescope maintenance, computer-time, analysis,etc.,. ).

4.]    Part of the expenses of the Federation shall come from duly authorized
duty, tariffs,  inspection fees, and management fees charged to non-Federation
citizens, cargo etc., utilizing  Federation stations and properties.

5.]    The Federation Assembly shall consider and approve any financial and
budgetary  arrangements with Specialized Agencies referred to in Article 57 and
shall examine the  Administrative budgets of such Specialized Agencies with a
view to making recommendations  to the Agencies concerned;

6.]    Three to five percent ( 3% - 5% ) of the annual budget is to be placed
in liquid assets, (  Bank Trust, Credit Notes, etc.,. ) every accounting period
as an Emergency Operations Fund to  be used to fiance extraordinary Federation
needs:  i.e., war debt, disaster, relief effort, rescue  operations, etc.,.  It
is outside of the Assembly appropriations jurisdiction, and can only be
activated by a unanimous vote of the Federation Council.

7.]    The Federation Assembly, Federation Council and Administration-Section
may not pass a  Deficit budget.  All Budgets must balance or be on the plus
side, or they may not be enacted.    Those Members that vote for the Deficit,
have to assume financial responsibility for the short- fall.  Their groups have
to split the bill evenly among themselves and produce the credits,  within ten
days of the budget proposal.  If they decline with in three days, then they are
eliminated from the next budget vote.  If they produce the Credits, then they
can vote for the  budget.  If they do come up with the money, the budget won't
be in deficit.

8.]    The validity of the public debt of the Articles of Federation,
authorized by law,  including debts incurred for payment of pensions and
bounties for services in suppressing  insurrections or rebellion, shall not be
questioned.  But neither the Federation nor any  Member shall assume or pay any
debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or  rebellion against the
Articles of Federation, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any
slave;  All such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

9.]    All budgets of, and expenses of the United Federation shall be made and
paid in the  common Interplanetary Credit.  The Common Interplanetary Credit
shall be the official  medium of exchange within the Federation Treaty
Exploration Territory;

ARTICLE 20:   Procedure;

The Federation Assembly shall meet in regular periodic sessions and in such
special  sessions as occasions may require.  Special Sessions shall be convoked
by the Administration- Section at the request of the Federation Council or of a
Majority of the Members of the  Federation;

ARTICLE 21

1.]    The Federation Assembly shall adopt rules of procedures, as its first
official Act.  The  Procedural handbook is to be limited to ten pages and five
thousand ( 5000 ) words.  This  handbook will then be used by every Federation
Agency, Meeting and Council.

2.]    The Federation Assembly shall elect a Governor for each Session;  The
Assembly  Governor shall open each debate, and moderate the Assembly session.
Limiting speaking times  and making sure the business of the Assembly is
handled in a timely fashion in accordance  with the agreed procedures.

3.]    The Federation Assembly Governor will serve as First Chancellor to the
Federation  Council.  This duty is served even while the Assembly is out of
session.


CHAPTER IX

The Interplanetary Court of Review and Justice

ARTICLE 53:   Statement of Legal Rights;

1.}    All Search, Seizures and Arrest must be approved by a Writ from a duly
appointed  Federation Tribunal.  This Writ shall contain, Intent, and detailed
Description of Items or  Persons sought;

2.}    All cases by common consent, will be Tried by, the Low Court, Common
Court or Final  Tribunal;

3.}    No Person may be forced to testify against themselves;

4.}    No Person may be Tried for the same offense twice;

5.}    No Bail may be set exceeding fifty percent ( 50 %) of the persons
worth;

6.}    No Private property may be seized without Fair-Market Compensation;

7.}    The Accused has the Right to Face their accuser;

8.}    The accused has the Right to call witnesses who must appear under
penalty of Fine;

9.}    The Accused has the Right to aid of Counsel for Defense;

10.}    The Accuser has the Right to aid of Counsel for Prosecution;

11.}    Persons have the Right to any-and-all data gathered by Public or
Private Concerns  about them;

12.}    No Right may supersede another;  No Persons Rights may supersede
another Persons  Rights;

13.}    No ruling or sentence may Abridge or Restrict the Rights specified;

Article 54:   The Courts of Review and Justice;

1.]     The Low Court of Review and Justice is to be comprised of a public
access Data- Terminals linked to the Federation Science Academy legal
Data-Base.  This repository of all  Federation Law is to be used to settle
disputes and minor, Legal questions and punishments.

2.]    The Common Court of Review and Justice is to be comprised of fifteen
randomly selected  people chosen from the Voter Rolls in the central computer
memory banks of the Federation  Science Academy.  Three ( 3 ) of these
individuals shall be selected as Tribunal Judges.  The  remaining twelve ( 12 )
shall act as Jurors for that days Court cases.  Either a computer link, or
hard-copy of the legal text will be on hand to aid the Court personnel.  This
Court hears  Criminal and Civil cases, deciding on punishment and recompense
for those concerned;

3.]    The Final Court of Review and Justice shall be comprised of three ( 3 )
Senior Cadets of  the graduating class of the Federation Science Academy.  This
Court will only review cases  concerning the legality of laws now on the books,
or issuing opinions of Laws about to be  enacted.  The only enforcement power
the Final Court has, is that of voiding a current law.   When this occurs, the
Sponsors of the Law have ten  ( 10 ) days to re-word the law to repair it.   If
no action is taken, then the Law is taken off the books.;

4.]    Any group of citizens may convene a Common Court at any time they deem
fit;

Article 55

1.]    All Members of the  Federation as ' Ipso Facto ' parties to the Statute
of the  Interplanetary Court of Review and Justice;

2.]    Each Member of the Federation undertakes to comply with the decisions
of the Inter- planetary Court of Review and Justice in any case to which it is
a party;

3.]    A Social System which is not a Member of the  Federation may become a
party to the  Statue of the Interplanetary Court of Review and Justice on
conditions to be determined in  each case by The Federation Assembly upon the
recommendation of the Federation Council;

4.]    Nothing in these Articles of Federation shall prevent Members of the
Federation from  entrusting the solutions of their differences to other
Tribunals by virtue of Agreements  already in existence or which may be
concluded in the future;

ARTICLE 56

The Federation Assembly of the Federation Council may request the
Interplanetary  Court of Review and Justice to give an advisory opinion on any
legal question.  Other bodies of  the Federation and the Specialized Agencies,
which may at any time be so authorized by the  Federation Assembly, may also
request Advisory Opinions of the Court on Legal questions  arising within the
scope of their activities.


A FEDERATION RESEARCH PROPOSAL:


By the synthesis of several fields of scientific and engineering specialty, the
production of  a new form of space drive may be possible.  This new drive will
represent a literal quantum  leap in space propulsion technology, entailing as
if does the reduction of space drive  components to a single 51 centimeter
crystal.

Sub-light Ion Engine:   This generator uses a block of semi-conductor material
as light-amplifying material, also  called an Injection Laser.  A common
material used is Gallium Arsenide.  The Semi-Conductor  material consist of two
layers that differ electrically.  Electron current passes thru the semi-
conductor generates laser light along the junction between the two layers.
The device, a quantum well diode laser, is made of a layered alloy of
gallium-aluminum- arsenide.  The middle layer, which is the active layer, is
made of nearly pure gallium arsenide,  and is only six-millionth of a
millimeter thick.  The two layers on either side of it are 10 times  as thick
and contain 30 times the atoms of aluminum for every 70 atoms of gallium.
These  layers are in turn sandwiched between two still thicker outer layers,
containing 25 atoms of  aluminum for every 75 atoms of gallium.  The entire
device is about 0.25 millimeters ( 0.01 inch  ) square and one thousandth of a
millimeter thick.   When a voltage is applied and current flows, this radiative
recombination has to be  confined along the junction plane and must be
reflected by a parallel, partially reflective  surface so as to form a cavity.
These parallel mirrors are readily obtained by cleaving along  the natural
cleavage planes of the III - V compound semi-conductors.  The injection
electrons  and the light must be confined to the same region so that they can
interact to enhance the  stimulated emission.   To provide the carrier and
light confinement to the region of the p-n junction and obtain  continuous
operation at room temperature, it is necessary to use a heterojuntion - i.e.,
the  junction in a single crystal between two dissimilar semi-conductors.  The
most significant  difference is the energy gap and the refractive index.  A
double hetero-structure made with  aluminum gallium arsenide ( Al-Ga-As ) and
pure gallium arsenide and indium phosphate  gallium indium are now being used.
Al-Ga-As is used to jacket, or clad the pure Ga-As core which has a smaller
energy gap than  the two cladding layers.  Typical values for X in the formula
Al = x : Ga = -x : As, is x = 0.3.  This  gallium Arsenide region with a
smaller energy gap is where the light with a smaller energy  gap is generated
due to radiative recombination of the injected carriers;  it is called the
active  region.   Other pairs of semi-conductors may be used, but all require a
smaller-energy-gap active  region with larger-energy-gap cladding layers.  Also
to prevent non-radiative recombination  at the heterojunction interphases, the
active layer and the cladding layers must have the same  lattice constant.
Electrical current travels through the layers in the form of moving negatively
charged  electrons and positively charged holes - These are empty spaces around
atoms in materials  crystal structure where electrons normally are situated.
Under the influence of an electric  field, an electron can jump from one hole
to another.  The hole the electron left behind can in  turn be filled by a
neighboring electron, which leaves another hole.  As this process repeats
itself, a hole in effect  " travels "  through the crystal.  The middle layer
acts as a pit, called a  quantum well, which the electrons either overshoot or
fall into.   When an electron falls into a hole, the electron gives up energy
in the form of a photon - a  bundle, or quantum or light.  A photon vibrates
with a frequency equal to its energy divided  by a number called Planck's
constant.   According to the laws of quantum mechanics that govern the emission
of photons,  electrons in an object can emit photons that have only certain
special amounts of energy.   Furthermore the number of possible amounts of
energy, and the amounts themselves, given  up by electrons as they fall into an
object depend upon the size of the object.  The smaller the  size the object,
the smaller the number of possible energies.  Because the laser's middle layer
is  extremely small, when an electrical current flows across the laser, the
middle layer emits  photons, each of which has the same energy and frequency,
corresponding to light of a deep  red color.   The basic principle of the laser
is that photons of this frequency encourage electrons in  the gallium arsenide
to fall into the holes, emitting still more photons of the same frequency.   As
a result, it is possible for a weak current to cause the middle layer to emit
tremendous  numbers of photons with a single frequency.  When the current rises
above about 0.3 ampere,  the device begins to emit laser light.  The light
output increases with further increases in the  current.  Only 1.5 amperes will
produce 1/2 watt of light.   The fundamental idea of this C.I.E. generator is
that of the injection laser.  However, that is  merely the first stage.  In the
second stage, the use of superconductivity material and  quasicrystals enhance
and increase the injection lasers efficiency to provide adequate
energy-to-thrust ratio for forward motion. The semiconducting material is
martyred in a  superconductivity lattice at an atomic level.  Replacing the
Oxygen-Copper pairings with Al- Ga-As.  A superconductor conducts or carries
electric current  ( a flow of electrons ) without  resistance.  In may 1987,
some evidence of superconductivity in a complex substance  apparently occurred
in microscopic  " sandwiches "  made up of insulated material located  between
layers of a superconductor.  This is the same formation as that of a
semiconductor.   The new superconductors are ceramics - material that are
neither metals nor plastics.  The  super conductors are brittle and are
difficult to make into films or wires suitable for technical  applications
because its strength is proportional to the size of the crystilline grains in
the  superconductor.  When researchers tried to increase grain size, their
brittle materials cracked.   Then silver,  which absorbs strain but doesn't
interfere with superconductivity was included  in the formula of yttrium,
barium, copper, and oxygen.  Including the silver produced large  grain
superconductors, allowing a 4.5 pound tank of water, holding a living goldfish,
to be  levitated atop a ring magnet.   The copper and oxygen atoms in these
materials are staked in flat layers  ( known as planes  in geometry ).  In each
" building block "  of the crystal lattice, copper an oxygen form one or  more
layers, while the other elements make up the remainder of the block.  The
blocks are  stacked one upon another like a deck of cards to fill out the
crystal.   The critical temperature seems to depend upon the number of
copper-and-oxygen layers  per block - the more of these layers , the higher the
critical temperature.  The material with a  critical temperature of -148
degrees C has three consecutive layers made of copper and oxygen  and atoms in
each block.   In 1980, they imposed a strong magnetic field perpendicular to a
very thin conducting  layer in an electronic device known as a
semiconductor-insulator junction.  This caused a  current to flow through the
layer.  Surprisingly, they found that the strength of the resulting  electrical
field was no longer simply proportional to the magnetic field and current, but
increased by quanta, or steps, as the magnetic field increased.  Successive
steps did not depend  on the nature of the specific conducting material.
Rather, the steps were always at an exact or  whole-number multiple of the
current times the square of the charge of electrons divided by  Planck's
constant.   The presence of moving magnetic fields can be shown by the Meissner
effect, the rejection  of a magnetic field by a superconductor that's cooled
below critical temperature.  Magnetic  Field;   a Region in the neighborhood of
a magnet, electric current or changing electric field  in which magnetic forces
are observable.  Magnetic fields force moving electrical charged  particles in
a circular or helical path.  The magnetic force on a moving charge is exerted
in a  direction at a right angle to the plane formed by the direction of its
velocity and the direction  of the surrounding magnetic field.   The Meissner
effect occurs because the magnetic field of the permanent magnet causes
superconductivity currents to flow on the surface of the pellet.  These
currents produce a  magnetic field in the direction opposite of that of the
permanent magnet's field.  The portion  of the superconductor's field inside
the superconductor has exactly the same strength as the  portion of the
magnet's field extending inside the superconductor.  So the magnet's internal
field is canceled out.  But the magnet's external field exerts a repelling
force on the  superconducting current carriers ( electrons or holes ) flowing
on the surface of the pellet,  causing the pellet to remain suspended.  When a
magnetic material is cooled in an outside  magnetic field of constant
direction, the small regions quickly grow into large domains in  which the
atomic magnets are aligned with the outside field.   Scientist have found that
certain impurities in the crystal structure of magnetic materials  make
boundary motion more difficult.      The field inside a type II material became
concentrated in various positions that depend  upon the crystal structure of
the particular superconductor.  Certain irregularities in the  shape of the
superconductors crystal structure and certain impurities ( atoms that normally
are not present in the materials ) can  " pin down "  these field
concentrations.   In a metal of alloy type II superconductor, movement of these
magnetic field  concentrations - know as fluxcreep - creates some electrical
resistance, but not enough to  prevent these materials from being useful for a
variety of superconductivity applications.  As  the temperature increases,
atoms in the superconducting material vibrate more and more  rapidly,
increasing flux creep.  The moving field concentrations interfere with
electrons or  holes forming the superconducting current, thereby raising
resistance.   That flux creep can be exceptionally strong in ceramic
superconductors that are made up  of the chemical elements yttrium, barium,
copper, and oxygen.     The amount of current that can pass through a
high-temperature superconductor is  limited by the behavior of a
three-dimensional magnetic structure called a flux lattice.  When  a ceramic
superconductor is placed in a magnetic field, the field forms intermeshing,
string- like concentrations of magnetism called fluxiods.   An electric current
can move fluxiods about and thus transfer some of the current's  energy to the
superconductor.  This causes the superconductor to lose its zero electrical
resistance.  The higher the temperature at which the superconductor operates,
the looser the  lattice becomes, and so the easier it becomes for current to
move fluxiods about - increasing  the material's resistance.   To prevent
lattices from loosening researchers took advantage of a characteristic of
certain conventional superconductors.  In those materials, fluxoids can be
immobilized, or  "  pinned down, "  by defects in the crystal of the material.
The current density  of the altered crystalline material was about 10 times
that of the  material without the defects (  Current density is the amount of
current flowing through a  given cross-sectional area of a material.).   A
technique for altering the crystal structure of a high temperature
superconductor by  introducing crystal defects.  The researchers measured the
density of a current flowing  through a crystal made up of yttrium, barium,
copper, and oxygen.  Then they bombarded the  crystal with neutrons, creating
defects every much like cracks in a brick wall.  When they  again passed a
current through the crystal, the fluxiods stuck to the defects and did not
interfere with the currents.  As a result, the current density increased
sharply to an amount  that would make these materials useful for magnets.
Another way of dealing with this problem would be the use of quasicrystals.  A
quasicrystal  is a material which solidified into a crystal like object with a
unit cell that could not possibly  repeat itself in a periodic fashion.
Researchers wondered how the object which came to be  known as a quasi-crystal,
could exist.  The explanation came from an unexpected source.  In  the
mid-1970's, theoretical physicist Roger Penrose developed a geometric structure
comparable to sets of tiles of two different shapes that cover a floor in only
non-periodic  arrangements - that is, without regular distances between
identical tiles pointed in the same  direction. Penrose's discovery in plane
geometry could be applied to solid geometry.   Unit cells in the shape of an
iconahedron ( a solid with 20 triangular faces ) could combine
non-periodically to form a quasi-crystal.  The ordering of the unit cells would
be quasi- periodical - that is, distances between unit cells oriented in the
same direction would repeat in  a pattern, but not a periodic pattern.  Instead
the distances would change according to the  Fibonacci sequence ( the
continuous series of numbers beginning 1,1,2,3,5, in which the first  two
numbers is the sum of the preceding two numbers ).  In October 1985, five
researchers obtained quasi-crystals by bombarding a thin film of  aluminum and
manganese with a beam of xenon ions ( charged atoms ).  The bombardment  with
ions rearranged atoms in the alloy to form a quasi-crystal. From the previous
information is possible to formulate a synthesis of the various sciences
described.   A layered superconducting matrix of injection laser material
Al-Ga-As, is laid down on  normal semiconducting state. Then a quasicrystal
superconductor, is overlaid as an insulating  layer and hetrojunctioned to the
plane of the Al-Ga-As, forming the quantum well where the  electron-photon
conversion takes place.  By using the quasicrystal structure to pin down the
magnetic fields, massive electric fields will be generated at right angles to
the original  electron current path.   These electric fields will act to " push
"  the electrons in the alternative junctions.  Inturn  these electron currents
will produce massive electric fields in the original current pathways.   This
double-push effect will increase electron-photon conversion.   Throughout the
more than 50 years of the particle-accelerator history, the strong electric
fields that  " push "  the particles have always been provided by powerful
radio waves, far  stronger electric fields are present in the light waves
produced by lasers, however.  A light  beam, like a radio beam consist of an
electric field and a magnetic field.  Strong electric fields  are also found in
plasmas - gases made up of atomic nuclei and independent electrons.
Experiments beginning in 1983  focused intense flashes of laser light on an are
of less than  1 square millimeter ( 0.0015 square inch ).  Each flash lasted
only ten-trillionth of a second,  but for that instant the flash maintained
electric fields thousands of times more powerful than  those commonly used in
particle accelerators.  Fields this strong generate forces as powerful as those
that hold atoms together.  They can  play havoc with any atoms that falls
within their grip.  Energy flows rapidly into the atoms,  causing it to spew
forth electrons.  In a single laser flash, an atom may absorb as many as 100
photons and eject as many as ten electrons.  Ordinarily, an atom absorbs one at
a time and it is  extremely difficult to remove several electrons from one atom
in a single step.   By this method, the quantum effect of electron-photon
conversion is amplified, producing  a sub-quantum field transfer effect of near
70-to-80% efficiency.  By expontial expansion, the  crystal electric-magnetic
fields should reach a strong-force counter reaction by the time the
electron-current flow has reached the end of the crystal.   The end product of
this action should be an quanta level release burst of energy along most  known
frequencies of the electromagnetic wave-band.    ( Harnessed nuclear thrust.)



First Earth Battalion:   When Lieutenant Colonel Jim Channon agreed to
investigate  California's human-potential movement for an Army Think-Tank
project in 1978, he  did so with extrordinary zeal.  Channon, an Army Futurist
station in Los Angeles, visited  more than 130 human-potential groups,
including Est, Insight, and a host of others  ranging in focus from the
philosophical to the practical.  Many seminars later,  Channon concluded that
holistic attempts to integrate mind, body, and spirit constitute  the wave of
the future.  He also decided that the human-potential movement is  something
the Army should be concerned with.   His solution was the First Earth Battalion
- a mythical command unit that he  designed as a model for the Army in the
1990s - whose purpose, according to Channon,  would be to find alternatives to
current models of warfare and to the Army's attitudes  about individual
soldiers.   Such concerns as planetary peace, global interdependence, ethical
warfare, and  ecology predominate in battalion literature.  Concepts are drawn
heavily from Eastern  philosophies and metaphysical disciplines.  Battalion
members would be required to  have strong spiritual and philosophical
commitments.   What Channon proposes, among other ideas, is a kind of  "
strategic microforce. "
    Such New Age soldiers would be highly evolved in
every sense:  They would possess  superior intelligence, rational
decision-making ability under life-and-death pressure,  an affinity for
languages, and an understanding of sign language.  They would be well  aware of
the power of visual symbols, music, and movements, especially choreography.
They would be able to put themselves in relaxed-brain-wave states.   Channon's
soldiers would be highly versatile, boasting such technical skills as
parachuting, scuba diving, and the ability to disarm nuclear devices.  They
would also  be trained in aikido and other martial arts, meditation, yoga, and
fasting.  Proficiency  in hypnotherapy, psychic communication, and  "
systematized intuition, "  including  dowsing and American Indian tracking
techniques, would combine with knowledge of  acupressure and herbal medicine.
"  A profound respect for other people's value  systems "  would be essential,
Channon says, since soldiers would be of both sexes and of  various religious
or spiritual systems and races.  Ultimately the battalion would be
international as well.   Their assignment:  To handle the most  " destabilizing
"  situations, including  countering nuclear terrorism, providing protection
within, or safe travel out of, strife- torn countries, and preceding United
Nations peacekeeping forces.  Channon  envisions, for example, a team of 15 to
30 battalion members parachuting into a Mideast  hot spot and standing between
two armies to avert a potential clash.  The battalion  would inaugurate a space
patrol that would search out concealed war devices, supervise  the Suez Canal,
and oversee emerging psychic research in the United States and the  U.S.S.R.
Battalion members not necessarily those in the strike force, would handle
reforesting projects and promote respect for Mother Earth.


FEDERATION SCIENCE ACADEMY TESTING FORM

Name:  Last                          Middle
First  |                                          |

Address:    Street    City
    |    |

State    Nation    Zip Code
    |    |

Planet    Life-Form    Phone
    |    |

Please Answer The Next Series Of Questions As Honestly As Possible:

How many sides does a Cube have?        If the Sun is over your left Shoulder,
                                         where's your shadow?   |

What would you do if a drunk stumbled into you and tried to start a fight?


A pregnant woman needs a ride to the hospital and your car has a flat tire.
What do you do?


What happens if you feed a stray animal?


What creates the little barren lines around houses?


How many people make up a large group?          Your favorite group activity?
                                 |

Your opinion of Government?      Big Business?    Schools?
    |    |

Your favorite set of numbers
  1,2,3,4,5,6:    |  1,2,5,7,8,0:    |  9,2,5,1,8,5:

Which job sounds more like you?  ( Physical/Mental energy required )
  Librarian:    |  Fire Fighter:    |  Janitor:

How long should it be between people seeing each other?
  2 x per day:    |  2 x per month:    |  Does not matter:

Describe your concept of your personal Now?  ( How you perceive Time and your
schedule )



Do you read:
  Magazines:           |  Books                  |  Encyclopedias               |  All

Thank you for your honesty and forthrightness.

Greetings:

We of the Federation greet you.  You've no doubt noted that the data  provided
to you are excerpts taken from longer, more detailed documents.  The reason
for this is mostly economic.  The one hard-copy of the Federation Operations
Manual  we have, is presently running two hundred and fifty pages.  This
includes the full  Constitution, the science database for the drive-crystal,
basic uniform designs for  public relations, computer icon designs for
Department files, etc.,.   The second reason for this small, data-packet is as
simple.  We're still getting on  our feet.  While we have a lot of data, ideas,
and paper work.  It's taking us time to  organize this information into useable
segments, cross-reference and build the files  and such that we'll need to get
everything operating smoothly.   The holidays have also interfered with the
byte-work ( as opposed to paperwork ).   Now that things are getting back to
normal, we expect to have this whole thing  whipped into shape in a couple of
weeks.  We've also found a member who can work  up a
cost-evaluation-and-projection report for all the items listed in the Sponsor
Program.  Hopefully we can have a working operations cost-analysis by the
beginning  of February.   If you have any information, ideas, and/or whatever,
please send back either  electronic mail, or regular mail, the address follows.
Thanks for your interest, and  hopefully, we can have an operating vehicle by
1995.  Target date for getting off this  planet is summer of 1995, or sooner.
Lets get moving, folks.

Please return filled out copy of test A.S.A.P.
E.T. Go Home.
P.O. Box 212314
Anchorage, Alaska 99512
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!yale.edu!jvnc.net!phage!pjm
From: [e-mail] (Pat Monardo)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Apr 92 15:46:34 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (NO MAIL)
Organization: Cold Spring Harbor Laboratory
Lines: 6
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5322 alt.conspiracy:14189 talk.religion.newage:10079 alt.paranormal:4796

Some CLUES for Gary:

You may think you have been on various Networks and
Bulleting Boards, but actually we have direct
control of your terminal and we run Usenet and Internet
simulations.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!yale.edu!jvnc.net!darwin.sura.net!europa.asd.contel.com!uunet!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo
From: [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Rockefeller Syndicate
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Apr 92 20:39:35 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System
Lines: 55

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

>Don:

>Why are you posting such drivel here?  Is that not what alt.conspiracy
>is for?  If you can show me *any* even *remote* connection to alt.alien.
>visitors I will eat my words, but in the meantime, IMO, this is a waste
>of bandwidth.

>Susy
>--
> +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
> |                     $ @disclaimer opinions are mine                        |
> +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
> | Susy Lockhart            |  " I need this like I need a butt implant."     |
> | EG & G Florida           |                                                 |
> | Kennedy Space Center     |                                        Opus     |
> +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
> |                  email:  [e-mail]                      |
> +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Right Susy,

let's keep the alt.alien.visitors channel for reports about "real" UFO-
sightings and discussion about the available pictures !!

Post this junk please to other groups ! Also the articles of "the cascade from
hell .." seems to originate from some puberty schoolboys !

BTW, has anybody already downloaded the alien.gif picture and the Ed Walters
GIF-pictures from phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17) /pub/ufo_and_space_pics  ???

What do You think all about these pics ??

I will soon upload some more pics, also the color version of the alien
being crashed at Roswell, New Mexico.
Does anybody know, if these photos are for real or are they only a good made
doll ??
Please if You  claim something about it  add a valid proof which can be checked !

Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for
Decentral Energy Research
email to: [e-mail]





--

*******************************************************************************
*  Stefan Hartmann       This is how to contact me:                           *
*  EMAIL: [e-mail]                                            *
*  Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66      FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79                   *
*******************************************************************************
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!garys
From: [e-mail] (Gary Stollman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Apr 92 06:44:40 GMT
References: <1992Apr16.003806.4972@anasaz>
Sender: [e-mail] (BBS Login)
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Lines: 29
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5324 alt.conspiracy:14191 talk.religion.newage:10080 alt.paranormal:4797

john@anasaz (John Moore) writes:

> Keywords:
>
> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Gary Stollma
> ]> Prozac is for depression, not paranoia (or schizophrenia which was
> ]> very evident in the quoted posting).
> ]
> ]*****
> ]Don't make diagnosises unless you are a trained professional...I an't
> ]crazy, and you ain't no judge of humanity...
>
> If you believe what you are posting, you are indeed crazy, but it would of
> course be hard to convince you of that.
>
> --
> John Moore NJ7E, 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale, AZ 85253  (602-951-9326)
> [e-mail] ncar!noao!asuvax!anasaz!john anasaz![e-mail]
>  - - If a field of study has the word "science" in it - it isn't a science -
>  - - Support ALL of the bill of rights, INCLUDING the 2nd amendment! - -

*****
Not only do I believe it, I intend to PROVE it!!

        Gary

 This is from
     [e-mail]
who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!garys
From: [e-mail] (Gary Stollman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Apr 92 06:49:11 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (BBS Login)
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Lines: 67
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5325 alt.conspiracy:14192 sci.skeptic:22768 alt.paranormal:4798

[e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer) writes:

> I sent a copy of some of Gary Stollman's postings to a friend who is
> knowledgeable about such things. He replies,
>
>    "I really enjoyed the Stollman material. When Horowitz said, "Fight
>     Back!" I don't think he meant with toy guns. He is a prize catch.
>     The presence of Capgras' syndrome makes him a rara avis. Genital
>     mutilation is a familiar theme in the literature on psychosis...
>
> By way of explanation, he included the following:
>
>     "The Capgras Syndrome and its Psychopathology" by B. Frank Vogel,
>     M.D. (Am J Psychiatry 131:8, August 1974):
>
>     ABSTRACT: Five case reports indicate that the Capgras syndrome, a
>     condition in which the patient believes that a person closely
>     related to him is actually an impostor, is far less rare than has
>     been commonly accepted. The author discusses the psychodynamics,
>     suggests that the syndrome itself is a massive defense system
>     against disintegrative intrapsychic conflicts, and examines the
>     clear-cut ego defense mechanisms employed.
>
>     TEXT: Since it was first described in 1923, the Capgras syndrome has
>     been accorded unusual respect and treatment because of its
>     supposed rarity. From time to time, single cases have been
>     reported as if each were a rara avis....
>
>     Before going into the clinical material, it may be useful to
>     recall the salient elements of Capgras syndrome. It has been
>     found in schizophrenia and, infrequently, by itself or in
>     affective psychoses. It has been described as a rare, colorful
>     syndrome in which the patient believes that a person, usually
>     closely related to him, has been replaced by an exact double....
>     in all the cases I have studied, perception remained unimpaired,
>     memory was intact, and there was no disorder of attention or
>     concentration or any clouding of consciousness. In none of my
>     patients was there any perceptible diminution of intellectual
>     grasp....
>
> So you see, Gary is a *very special* individual, and we should listen
> to him with the kind of respect that such a person deserves!
>
> --
>
>         Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]
>
>  Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized
>
>      "In the 1970's the world will undergo famines - hundreds of millions
>      of people are going to starve to death in spite of any crash programs
>      embarked upon now ... in 1985, when it is calculated [under the most
>      optimistic scenario] that the major die-back will be over, ..."
>
>                        Dr. Paul Ehrlich, "The Population Bomb," 1968

*****
You will see in my message from Freenet that I am quite a character, way
beyond that which you could scarely imagine...I will post on here soon my
wanderings among the world of the old Arpanet, of which I used up around
$1,000,000 in REAL money of the U.S. governments...Interesting, no??

        Gary

 This is from
     [e-mail]
who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!garys
From: [e-mail] (Gary Stollman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Apr 92 06:53:58 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (BBS Login)
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Lines: 14
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5326 alt.conspiracy:14193 talk.religion.newage:10081 alt.paranormal:4799

> And how do you explain the incredible energy emanating from the hands
> of BENNY HINN?  Yes friends, the Arcturans are everywhere!

*****
Perhaps he has Vaseline on them??  My girlfriend Joan's REAL father
invented it...

        Gary

P.S.  My best friend inherited $728 million...Interesting, no??

 This is from
     [e-mail]
who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!chaph.usc.edu!royander
From: [e-mail] (Roy Anderson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.stupidity,alt.exploding.kibo
Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again...
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Apr 92 19:46:32 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Roy Anderson)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Roy Anderson)
Distribution: ca
Organization: University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA
Lines: 125
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5327 alt.slack:3048 alt.stupidity:4721 alt.exploding.kibo:228
NNTP-Posting-Host: sal-sun125.usc.edu


In article <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]> writes:
|> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Roy
|> Anderson) says:
|> >
|> >In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (G.Argendeli-Sysop)
|> >writes:
|> >|> [e-mail] (Jeffrey Klein) writes:
|> >|>
|> >|> > In article <smedley.702576727@milton> [e-mail]
|> >(Willia
|> >|> > >[e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:
|> >|> > >
|> >|> > >>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Roger Lee) writes:
|> >|> > >>>In <[e-mail]>
|> >[e-mail]
|> >|> > >>>
|> >|> > >>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James
|> >'Kibo'
|> >Pa
|> >|> > >>>>>In article <[e-mail]>
|> >[e-mail]
|> >|> > >>>>>>In article <[e-mail]>
|> >[e-mail]
|> >|> > >>>>>>>In article <[e-mail]>
|> >waldbyjf@NeXTwo
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>In article <[e-mail]>
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> [e-mail] (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes:
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >In article <[e-mail]>
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>[e-mail] (Kevin L. McBride) writes:
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>[e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> In article <[e-mail]>
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>[e-mail] (barry.o.olson) writes:
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >In article <[e-mail]>,
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>[e-mail] (Russ Taylor) writes:
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> In article <[e-mail]>
|> >[e-mail]
|> >(J
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes:
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed]
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS.
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper.
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH.  I WISH YOU PEOPLE
|> >WOUL
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*.
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop,
|> >but
|> >on
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents?  A thousand-degree flame on you!
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!)
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth?
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width.
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it?
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it.
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer.
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE?  PLEASE
|> >EXERC
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT.
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>Okay.
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>       Come on guys, I think he means it.  Don't follow up to
|> >this.
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious.
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up.
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >Or kill me.
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess.
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>Shhhh!
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >[e-mail]
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming  305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge
|> >MA
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >(  the  nonibo  -ibo  )  [phone] [home]  [phone]
|> >[of
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>>  No!  Don't follow up to this!  Whatever you do, _don't_ press
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> that "f" button!  It's a sin!  It's a sin!  This is against the
|> >god
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly!  See what you do!  You    e
|> >wast
|> >a
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens!  Nay, until the
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up!
|> >My
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> _GOD_!  How can you even think it!  How can you dream it and
|> >still
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> remain sane?!?!?  How can it be?!?!?!?!  Gah!!!!
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> [e-mail]      | The meek shall inherit the     ,
|> >earth
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> [e-mail] |  and the wise keep moving on...
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156     O
|> >|------------------------------------
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>>  Amherst, NY  14226      +    |Ask me about the Secret Society!
|> >Sh
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion?
|> >I
|> >|> > >>>>>>>>missed the earlier parts.
|> >|> > >>>>>>There.  No more wasted "Bandwidth"
|> >|> > >>>>>Huh?
|> >|> > >>>>Duh!
|> >|> > >>>NOT!
|> >|> > >>Got.
|> >|> > >Gott.
|> >|> > What?
|> >|> Je Ne Comprends Pas.... Pas!
|> >Paass the pepper, salty!
|> Grass is healthy, mostly.
Only when chewed slowly!!
|> >
|> >
|> >
|> >
|> >
|> >
|> >
|> >|>
|> >|> ---
|> >|> "By this time, my lungs were aching for air!"  -MST3K
|> >|> Greg Argendeli, System Administrator ([e-mail])
|> >|> (bbs) [phone]| (Page) [phone] | (Voice) [phone]
|> >
|> >
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From: [e-mail] (Josh 'K' Hopkins)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space
Subject: Re: Federation Answers All Your Questions
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Apr 92 22:01:47 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Lines: 13
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5328 sci.space:29124


    Interesting ideas, but pardon me if I'm still skeptical :)
Was it just me, or did the 'technical explanation' leave out any indication as
to how to get thrust out of this contraption?  I'm also worried about a
dependance principles that haven't been demonstrated yet, avoiding the
question of funding (who is going to write for you?  How do you plan to make
money from selling 'gadgets' without needing at least as much for startup
costs) and a rather lopsided attention to details.  Did you really make the
computer icons and design the uniforms, but you've never bothered to try
building one of these crystal things?


            Josh Hopkins
Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!mips!apple!apple!portal!cup.portal.com!mmm
From: [e-mail] (Mark Robert Thorson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Apr 92 04:22:16 GMT
References: <1992Apr12.230048.15124@anasaz>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 5
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5329 alt.conspiracy:14202 talk.religion.newage:10082 alt.paranormal:4800

> Prozac is for depression, not paranoia (or schizophrenia which was
> very evident in the quoted posting).

So do you recommend Clozapine, or should we go directly to ECT or
the Freeman-Watts procedure?
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space
Subject: Re: Federation Answers All Your Questions
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Apr 92 23:28:19 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Lines: 27
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5330 sci.space:29129

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Josh 'K' Hopkins) writes:
>     Interesting ideas, but pardon me if I'm still skeptical :)
> Was it just me, or did the 'technical explanation' leave out any indication as
> to how to get thrust out of this contraption?  I'm also worried about a
> dependance principles that haven't been demonstrated yet, avoiding the
> question of funding (who is going to write for you?  How do you plan to make
> money from selling 'gadgets' without needing at least as much for startup
> costs) and a rather lopsided attention to details.  Did you really make the
> computer icons and design the uniforms, but you've never bothered to try
> building one of these crystal things?
>
>
>             Josh Hopkins

Skipping the issue of thrust for a moment...

It seems to me that the emotional recruitment approach might work, since
the rhetoric stated that members would come from the 'cons.  If this is the
case, the uniforms and logos are far more important to initial fundraising
than working hardware.

        John Stevens-Schlick
(Of course, >>I<< wouldn't give them money without seeing the blueprints,
but IF I saw reasonable blueprints, and some initial working stuff, I might
be enticed into being someone to build stuff for them at home.  {However,
what do YOU think the chances are of seeing initial proof of principal working
hardware...                  NOT})
Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!mips!pacbell.com!att!rutgers!noao!asuvax!anasaz!qip!billy
From: billy@anasaz (Bill Moore)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFO CONSPIRACY
Message-ID: <1992Apr16.162447.6727@anasaz>
Date: 16 Apr 92 16:24:47 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Anasazi, Inc.  Phoenix, Az
Lines: 18

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (HOZA MARK R) writes:
->I think that this information is accurate, but this is based only on my
->intuition and feelings, which have resulted from what I've read in other
->places.  I think that what Milton William Cooper has allegedly said is
->accurate.  I intend to investigate further, but this is my impression at
->this time.  I welcome any leads to information on the subject of UFO's, or
->advice for my research.
->
If you're serious, you would be wasting your time on that path.  Cooper has
been thoroughly discredited.  Send e-mail if you want details.  I suggest
you look into MUFON as an organization that would support your interests
if your objective is to look into this in a scientific, somewhat skeptical,
manner.

--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
     Bill Moore     [e-mail]    [phone]
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!sheaffer
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: ELECTRONIC IMPLANTS MADE BY HUMANS
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Apr 92 23:09:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 28

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>Very Interesting, indeed!  When I was the mall a few months ago, I received a f
>lyer(so did every other car in the ENTIRE parking lot!) from a "religious" grou
>p (sorry, i'm not sure) that stated that plans were under way in the Netherland
>s (Banking Central of the world :-) ) to develop a sort of UPC code for humans!
>(a.k.a elctronic implant?)  But there's more, It also said how every credit car
>d has a special code (i'm not sure but Visa is 777, Am. Express is 999,etc.) an
>d this new "UPC" code is 666!!!!

Oh, it's even WORSE than that! Now that telephone deregulation is forcing
all these competing "long distance carriers" on us, look what They have
done: if I want to select MCI as my long distance carrier, I must dial
222, and if I want to select U.S. SPRINT, it's 333 !!!!!! This is a
conspiracy SO VAST..........


--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

     "In the 1970's the world will undergo famines - hundreds of millions
     of people are going to starve to death in spite of any crash programs
     embarked upon now ... in 1985, when it is calculated [under the most
     optimistic scenario] that the major die-back will be over, ..."

                       Dr. Paul Ehrlich, "The Population Bomb," 1968
Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!rpi!sarah!newserve!bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu!vu0208
From: [e-mail] (!)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space
Subject: Re: THE FEDERATIONERS HAVEN'T DIED!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Apr 92 23:48:03 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Mr News)
Organization: State University of New York at Binghamton
Lines: 31
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5333 sci.space:29131
Nntp-Posting-Host: bingvaxu.cc.binghamton.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Josh 'K' Hopkins) writes:
>[e-mail] writes:
>
>
>>The project is trying to create a drive crystal that if
>>succesful will go beyond using rocket fuel. It's a long description.
>
>    Your credibility would go way up (and you'd get much more interest)
>if you or someone else involved would post an explanation of how this works.
>


It's simple! There are many many ways that you don't need any
poisonous rocket propellants to hurl you into space!

But if we tell you like that, wouldn't you or nasa take away the
patent!


>    Don't forget that just patenting something doesn't make money.  You
>are going to need to invest in production, marketing and manufacturing so that
>you can actually sell these 'gadgets.'  You will also need to be able to
>explain what they do.
>
>
>            Josh Hopkins


Obviously, when they will be ready for selling, it will be advertised!

- astro
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!noiro.oac.uci.edu!news.service.uci.edu!chrisb
From: [e-mail] (Chris Barrus)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Majestic Twelve - The Video Game(?!)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Apr 92 00:37:11 GMT
Organization: Dept. of Physics, Univ. of California, Irvine
Lines: 14
Nntp-Posting-Host: lynx.ps.uci.edu


I thought that I should mention this...

In San Diego, I saw and played a "Majestic Twelve" video game.  Not
surprisingly, it is a space invaders-type game complete with cattle
mutilations.

So, is this another part of our conditioning?  :-)

-Chris
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Barrus - P.O. Box 5115 - Irvine - CA - 92714 - [e-mail]
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: [e-mail] (Gary Stollman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Apr 92 14:43:00 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Lines: 17


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Gary Stollman) writes...

Come on!!!  Give me a break!!!  The shrinnk I was seeing in
Tallahassee last year before I dropped him told me about this
nonsense...Listen, you better get something and get it good;
I am NOT insane, and this is ALL true, and by next week you
may wish you had a one-way ticket to Mars!!  If you don't believe
me, check out where this is coming from, then check out my new
signature...Nice, ain't it??

    Gary
--
Gary Stollman       GEnie:G.STOLLMAN
                    Internet:[e-mail]
Don't think I'm crazy cause I know twenty computer languages and
have stolen more time on computers for free than you know about!!
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From: [e-mail] (Gary Stollman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Apr 92 13:43:00 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Tallahassee Mental Sanatorium
Lines: 15


Come on!!!  Give me a break!!!  The shrinnk I was seeing in
Tallahassee last year before I dropped him told me about this
nonsense...Listen, you better get something and get it good;
I am NOT insane, and this is ALL true, and by next week you
may wish you had a one-way ticket to Mars!!  If you don't believe
me, check out where this is coming from, then check out my new
signature...Nice, ain't it??

    Gary
--
Gary Stollman       GEnie:G.STOLLMAN
                    Internet:[e-mail]
Don't think I'm crazy cause I know twenty computer languages and
have stolen more time on computers for free than you know about!!
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!mips!decwrl!pa.dec.com!shodha.enet.dec.com!comet.enet.pit.com!stollman
From: [e-mail] (Gary Stollman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Apr 92 13:48:19 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Pacific Institute of Technology
Lines: 17


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Gary Stollman) writes...

Come on!!!  Give me a break!!!  The shrinnk I was seeing in
Tallahassee last year before I dropped him told me about this
nonsense...Listen, you better get something and get it good;
I am NOT insane, and this is ALL true, and by next week you
may wish you had a one-way ticket to Mars!!  If you don't believe
me, check out where this is coming from, then check out my new
signature...Nice, ain't it??

    Gary
--
Gary Stollman       GEnie:G.STOLLMAN
                    Internet:[e-mail]
Don't think I'm crazy cause I know twenty computer languages and
have stolen more time on computers for free than you know about!!
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ames!lll-winken!taurus!se3!lindsey
From: [e-mail] (daniel lindsey)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Apr 92 15:56:12 GMT
References: <1992Apr12.230048.15124@anasaz> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (daniel lindsey)
Organization: Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey CA
Lines: 12
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5338 alt.conspiracy:14210 talk.religion.newage:10084 alt.paranormal:4801

I agree, Gary, that you haven't adopted an obnoxious signature, but my
compliments on a quite clever sig.
For those of you so convinced of Gary's lunacy that every word he posts
is suspect (gee, he must be crazy, look, he can't even match singular &
plural correctly in his sig), stop and think:
your sysop already has another Gary-account, so he adds the first initial
of your last name.  Thus your account is Garys.  Garys @ someplace sounds
like more than one Gary.  Thus _they_ don't have _their_ own obnoxious
sig yet.
I think this guy is having everyone on ;-).

DaLNZ
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!ibmchs!auschs!awdprime.austin.ibm.com!woofer.austin.ibm.com!jlpicard
From: [e-mail] (Craig Becker)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Mach6 spy plane
Keywords: spy ufo plane
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Apr 92 20:03:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News)
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: IBM Object Technology Products
Lines: 15

...
[talk of the SR 71 Blackbird deleted]
...
> (It is also, in my opinion, the most beautiful aircraft ever made, a
> streamlined work of art).

Yes, I agree. I was massively PO'ed when the government decided
they were "obsolete". I think they should have kept them flying
as a matter of national pride.

Craig
-- "To every man is given the     Craig Becker, Object Technology Products --
--  key to the gates of heaven;         Internet: [e-mail] --
--  the same key opens the gates      Austin: [e-mail] --
--  of hell" - Buddhist proverb                     VNET: CRAIGB at AUSVM1 --
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From: [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic
Subject: Berlin UFO congress,uncle Virgil tells fairy tales!
Summary: ufo
Keywords: ufo
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Apr 92 22:12:25 GMT
Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System
Lines: 67
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5340 sci.space:29136 alt.conspiracy:14211 sci.skeptic:22783


Hi to all UFO-investigators out there,

I'm just back from the UFO-conference from Berlin, Germany, where I live.

The first lecture was by Virgil Armstrong, an ex-CIA worker.

It was so disapointing:

Uncle Virgil was only telling fairy tales !!!

Gee, was this guy ridiculous !!!

He only claimed things, but did not have one proof !!

No photos, no pictures, no broken ufo-metalls, just cheap talk !!

He had 2 hours time for his lecture.

He was announced to talk about the UFO-crash in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947
and the Project Grudge etc..

But after one and a half hour he still was speaking about positive and
negative energy, until I interrupted him and asked, what about the UFO-crash !

Then he still spoke 10 minutes about bla,bla  and then he just tapped a little
bit the crash story, that was already told better over here on the net !

He only drawed a few sketches onto the blackboard of an UFO and an alien with
a big head, but a little girl would have done this better, I think.

Then there came suddenly a lady from the local room office-staff into the
lecture room and said, the time is over, we have to do soundcheck for the
next speaker.
Then uncle Virgil Amstrong went with his "fans" into a smaller room and still
there was only claims and not any more information about the UFO-crash !!

What a guy, he is real fake ! I should have choosen another lecture !
But I thought this topic about ufo-crash would be the most interesting topic
of this conference, cause the other speakers mostly lecture about
spiritual cases like channeling and psychololical research on abducted people
etc. This might be also interesting, but You can't proove or disproove
anything of it, cause You only have the claims of the persons and no pictures
of some real sightings !
Okay, one good thing was the entrance hall. There were some pretty good
new books out there with pretty good new pictures I not did have yet.

So it is not to far away, that there will be some more scanned pictures
from me on the UFO-pics-FTP-site at phoenix.oulu.fi (10.231.240.17)
in /pub/incoming  or  /pub/ufo_and_space_pics
Have a look over there regularly !
By the way, what do You all think about the Ed Walters GIF-pictures over there?=?
Please let me know. Post it to alt.alien.visitores please.

Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for
Decentral Energy Research
email to: [e-mail]



--

*******************************************************************************
*  Stefan Hartmann       This is how to contact me:                           *
*  EMAIL: [e-mail]                                            *
*  Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66      FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79                   *
*******************************************************************************
Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!news.acns.nwu.edu!sforslev
From: [e-mail] (Susanne Forslev)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Rockefeller Syndicate
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Apr 92 02:50:26 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Northwestern University, Evanston, Illinois
Lines: 27

>BTW, has anybody already downloaded the alien.gif picture and the Ed Walters
>GIF-pictures from phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17) /pub/ufo_and_space_pics  ???

>What do You think all about these pics ??

<Stuff Deleted>

>Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for
>Decentral Energy Research
>email to: [e-mail]

Stefan -

I think that the Ed Walter's pictures look like the flying saucers in
_Godzilla vs Monster Zero_.  If you get bad Japanese monster movies in
Berlin, check it out.  Monster Zero is a flying dragon that I think has 3
heads.



>--
>
>*******************************************************************************
>*  Stefan Hartmann       This is how to contact me:                           *
>*  EMAIL: [e-mail]                                            *
>*  Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66      FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79                   *
>*******************************************************************************
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From: [e-mail] (Josh 'K' Hopkins)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space
Subject: Re: Federation Answers All Your Questions
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Apr 92 04:43:59 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Lines: 34
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5342 sci.space:29143

[e-mail] writes:

>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Josh 'K' Hopkins) writes:
>>
    [stuff on 'Federation' making computer icons and uniforms before
    'drive crystals' deleted]


>It seems to me that the emotional recruitment approach might work, since
>the rhetoric stated that members would come from the 'cons.  If this is the
>case, the uniforms and logos are far more important to initial fundraising
>than working hardware.

>        John Stevens-Schlick

    Hmmm...  wasn't there a discussion of founding a 'space religion'
a while ago? :)  I read SF and I realize that there are many fine people who
do.  However, I have to admit I'm skeptical about this concept of recruiting
all the members from Trek conventions and expecting them to make great strides
in propulsion technology in their spare time.  (besides, anybody who pays $10
a _minute_ for modem time has got to be out of their mind!)

    I'd like to see a grass roots movement to space, but this just goes
to show that it'll take a while for a real one to happen. :(

        Josh Hopkins



>(Of course, >>I<< wouldn't give them money without seeing the blueprints,
>but IF I saw reasonable blueprints, and some initial working stuff, I might
>be enticed into being someone to build stuff for them at home.  {However,
>what do YOU think the chances are of seeing initial proof of principal working
>hardware...                  NOT})
Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!ames!titan.ksc.nasa.gov!kscdl1.ksc.nasa.gov!lockhart
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Rockefeller Syndicate
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Apr 92 17:50:42 GMT
Organization: NASA, Kennedy Space Center, FL
Lines: 18
Nntp-Posting-Host: kscdl1.cad.ksc.nasa.gov

Don:

Why are you posting such drivel here?  Is that not what alt.conspiracy
is for?  If you can show me *any* even *remote* connection to alt.alien.
visitors I will eat my words, but in the meantime, IMO, this is a waste
of bandwidth.

Susy
--
 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 |                     $ @disclaimer opinions are mine                        |
 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 | Susy Lockhart            |  " I need this like I need a butt implant."     |
 | EG & G Florida           |                                                 |
 | Kennedy Space Center     |                                        Opus     |
 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
 |                  email:  [e-mail]                      |
 +----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!watserv1!watdragon!watyew!jdnicoll
From: [e-mail] (James Davis Nicoll)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Apr 92 01:37:16 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Distribution: na
Organization: University of Waterloo
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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5344 alt.conspiracy:14217 talk.religion.newage:10085 alt.paranormal:4804

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (James Davis Nicoll) writes...
>>
>>    Ha! Arcturus is population II, and doesn't have those heavy elements
>>so vital to terrestrial planet forming, technology, life and a sense of
>>humor. Clearly an attempt at disinformation: just what kind of fools do
>>you take us for?
>
>The kind of fool that forgets that population I stars don't have the heavy
>elements, but population II stars do. :')
>
>(Boy, I hope I got this right, given my atitude).

    Hey, nice to see you don't let lack of knowledge stop you
from posting. Pop I and Pop II are named in the order they were
noticed. Guess which type Sol is (Hint: check the elements in
the crust of the Earth, which formed from the same material the
sun did)?

                            James Nicoll
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!garys
From: [e-mail] (Gary Stollman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Apr 92 01:42:09 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (BBS Login)
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Lines: 26

[e-mail] (Gary Stollman) writes:

>
> Come on!!!  Give me a break!!!  The shrinnk I was seeing in
> Tallahassee last year before I dropped him told me about this
> nonsense...Listen, you better get something and get it good;
> I am NOT insane, and this is ALL true, and by next week you
> may wish you had a one-way ticket to Mars!!  If you don't believe
> me, check out where this is coming from, then check out my new
> signature...Nice, ain't it??
>
>     Gary
> --
> Gary Stollman       GEnie:G.STOLLMAN
>                     Internet:[e-mail]
> Don't think I'm crazy cause I know twenty computer languages and
> have stolen more time on computers for free than you know about!!

*****
Hey, that's a cute trick!  Show ME how to do it sometime...

        Gary

 This is from
     [e-mail]
who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!garys
From: [e-mail] (Gary Stollman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Apr 92 01:45:30 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (BBS Login)
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Lines: 21
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5346 alt.conspiracy:14220 talk.religion.newage:10086 alt.paranormal:4805

[e-mail] (daniel lindsey) writes:

> I agree, Gary, that you haven't adopted an obnoxious signature, but my
> compliments on a quite clever sig.
> For those of you so convinced of Gary's lunacy that every word he posts
> is suspect (gee, he must be crazy, look, he can't even match singular &
> plural correctly in his sig), stop and think:
> your sysop already has another Gary-account, so he adds the first initial
> of your last name.  Thus your account is Garys.  Garys @ someplace sounds
> like more than one Gary.  Thus _they_ don't have _their_ own obnoxious
> sig yet.
> I think this guy is having everyone on ;-).
>
> DaLNZ

*****
You are WRONG, but who cares...

 This is from
     [e-mail]
who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!aero.org!zeus
From: [e-mail] (Dave Suess)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: INVASION!!! [sincerity]
Summary: not a put-on, exactly.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Apr 92 18:16:56 GMT
References: <1992Apr12.230048.15124@anasaz> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: The Aerospace Corporation, El Segundo, CA
Lines: 13
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5347 alt.conspiracy:14223 talk.religion.newage:10087 alt.paranormal:4806

In article <[e-mail]>,
     [e-mail] (daniel lindsey) writes:

>I think this guy is having everyone on ;-).

    I remember watching the news the night a man appeared
    behind Horowitz with a gun. The station, to discourage
    such behavior, cut and did not comply with demands to
    read the statement. I also remember kindly Dr. Stollman,
    who was the Friendly Pharmacist.  So have your fun with
    Gary, hell, print your home address for him. Maybe he'll
    drop in someday.
                Dave Suess    [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!csa1.lbl.gov!sichase
From: [e-mail] (SCOTT I CHASE)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Apr 92 19:30:21 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Distribution: na
Organization: Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory - Berkeley, CA, USA
Lines: 15
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5348 alt.conspiracy:14224 talk.religion.newage:10088 alt.paranormal:4807
NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.3.254.196
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.3-4

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (James Davis Nicoll) writes...
>
>    Ha! Arcturus is population II, and doesn't have those heavy elements
>so vital to terrestrial planet forming, technology, life and a sense of
>humor. Clearly an attempt at disinformation: just what kind of fools do
>you take us for?

The kind of fool that forgets that population I stars don't have the heavy
elements, but population II stars do. :')

(Boy, I hope I got this right, given my atitude).

--------------------
Scott I. Chase
[e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!bonnie.concordia.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!draco!orion!stimpsn
From: [e-mail] (Gary Stimpson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: ELECTRONIC IMPLANTS MADE BY HUMANS
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Apr 92 17:55:45 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (BBS Account)
Organization: The Orion Unix System [A/UX 2.0.1], Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Lines: 21

<[e-mail]> writes:

> Very Interesting, indeed!  When I was the mall a few months ago, I received a
> lyer(so did every other car in the ENTIRE parking lot!) from a "religious" gr
> p (sorry, i'm not sure) that stated that plans were under way in the Netherla
> s (Banking Central of the world :-) ) to develop a sort of UPC code for human
> (a.k.a elctronic implant?)  But there's more, It also said how every credit c
> d has a special code (i'm not sure but Visa is 777, Am. Express is 999,etc.)
> d this new "UPC" code is 666!!!!  So they were stating that the asnti-christ
> not some stupid devil, but rather our fellow humans in power!  This is all fr
> memory, i'm sorry, but that was the theme pretty much!  Whaddya think???

Strange stuff.  I never knew credit cards had code #'s like that.  Can
someone verify this?  Well, don't be fooled by what people say!

Ttyl,
Gary

--
[e-mail] (Gary Stimpson)
The Orion Unix System [A/UX 2.0.1], Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Path: ns-mx!uunet!bonnie.concordia.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!draco!orion!stimpsn
From: [e-mail] (Gary Stimpson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Apr 92 18:00:51 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (BBS Account)
Organization: The Orion Unix System [A/UX 2.0.1], Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Lines: 24

[e-mail] (Gary Stollman) writes:

>
> Come on!!!  Give me a break!!!  The shrinnk I was seeing in
> Tallahassee last year before I dropped him told me about this
> nonsense...Listen, you better get something and get it good;
> I am NOT insane, and this is ALL true, and by next week you
> may wish you had a one-way ticket to Mars!!  If you don't believe
> me, check out where this is coming from, then check out my new
> signature...Nice, ain't it??

I don't think you're insane.  What's going to happen next week?

> Don't think I'm crazy cause I know twenty computer languages and
> have stolen more time on computers for free than you know about!!

Nice sig.  :)
"I'm not paranoid, everybody's just out to get me!"

Gary

--
[e-mail] (Gary Stimpson)
The Orion Unix System [A/UX 2.0.1], Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!usc!noiro.oac.uci.edu!meroot.eng.uci.edu!ruman
From: [e-mail] (runner)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.stupidity
Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again...
Keywords: burp fart
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Apr 92 21:29:37 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Distribution: ca
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Lines: 83
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5351 alt.slack:3063 alt.stupidity:4752
Nntp-Posting-Host: meroot.eng.uci.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (G.Argendeli-Sysop) writes:
>[e-mail] (Jeffrey Klein) writes:
>
>> In article <smedley.702576727@milton> [e-mail] (Willia
>> >[e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:
>> >
>> >>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Roger Lee) writes:
>> >>>In <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
>> >>>
>> >>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Pa
>> >>>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
>> >>>>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
>> >>>>>>>In article <[e-mail]> waldbyjf@NeXTwo
>> >>>>>>>>In article <[e-mail]>
>> >>>>>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
>> >>>>>>>>> [e-mail] (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes:
>> >>>>>>>>> >In article <[e-mail]>
>> >>>>>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
>> >>>>>>>>> >>[e-mail] (Kevin L. McBride) writes:
>> >>>>>>>>> >>>[e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> In article <[e-mail]>
>> >>>>>>>>[e-mail] (barry.o.olson) writes:
>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >In article <[e-mail]>,
>> >>>>>>>>[e-mail] (Russ Taylor) writes:
>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (J
>> >>>>>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed]
>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS.
>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper.
>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH.  I WISH YOU PEOPLE WOUL
>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*.
>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop, but on
>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents?  A thousand-degree flame on you!
>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!)
>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth?
>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich
>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width.
>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it?
>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it
>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it.
>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor
>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor
>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer.
>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE?  PLEASE EXERC
>> >>>>>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT.
>> >>>>>>>>> >>>Okay.
>> >>>>>>>>> >>    Come on guys, I think he means it.  Don't follow up to this.
>> >>>>>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious.
>> >>>>>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up.
>> >>>>>>>>> >Or kill me.
>> >>>>>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess.
>> >>>>>>>>Shhhh!
>> >>>>>>>>> >[e-mail]
>> >>>>>>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming  305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge MA
>> >>>>>>>>> >(  the  nonibo  -ibo  )  [phone] [home]  [phone] [of
>> >>>>>>>>>     No!  Don't follow up to this!  Whatever you do, _don't_ press
>> >>>>>>>>> that "f" button!  It's a sin!  It's a sin!  This is against the god
>> >>>>>>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly!  See what you do!  You waste a
>> >>>>>>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens!  Nay, until the
>> >>>>>>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the
>> >>>>>>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up!  My
>> >>>>>>>>> _GOD_!  How can you even think it!  How can you dream it and still
>> >>>>>>>>> remain sane?!?!?  How can it be?!?!?!?!  Gah!!!!
>> >>>>>>>>> [e-mail]      | The meek shall inherit the earth,
>> >>>>>>>>> [e-mail] |     and the wise keep moving on...
>> >>>>>>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156     O    |------------------------------------
>> >>>>>>>>>  Amherst, NY  14226      +    |Ask me about the Secret Society!  Sh
>> >>>>>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion?  I
>> >>>>>>>>missed the earlier parts.
>> >>>>>>There.  No more wasted "Bandwidth"
>> >>>>>Huh?
>> >>>>Duh!
>> >>>NOT!
>> >>Got.
>> >Gott.
>> What?
>Je Ne Comprends Pas.... Pas!
burp

------------------------------------o----------------------^


--
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!noiro.oac.uci.edu!meroot.eng.uci.edu!ruman
From: [e-mail] (runner)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.slack,alt.stupidity
Subject: Re: The cascade from Hell rides once again...
Keywords: two burps
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Apr 92 21:33:45 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Distribution: na
Organization: University of California, Irvine
Lines: 118
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5352 alt.slack:3064 alt.stupidity:4753
Nntp-Posting-Host: meroot.eng.uci.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Roy Anderson) writes:
>
>In article <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]> writes:
>|> In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Roy
>|> Anderson) says:
>|> >
>|> >In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (G.Argendeli-Sysop)
>|> >writes:
>|> >|> [e-mail] (Jeffrey Klein) writes:
>|> >|>
>|> >|> > In article <smedley.702576727@milton> [e-mail]
>|> >(Willia
>|> >|> > >[e-mail] (Mike Bur) writes:
>|> >|> > >
>|> >|> > >>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Roger Lee) writes:
>|> >|> > >>>In <[e-mail]>
>|> >[e-mail]
>|> >|> > >>>
>|> >|> > >>>>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (James
>|> >'Kibo'
>|> >Pa
>|> >|> > >>>>>In article <[e-mail]>
>|> >[e-mail]
>|> >|> > >>>>>>In article <[e-mail]>
>|> >[e-mail]
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>In article <[e-mail]>
>|> >waldbyjf@NeXTwo
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>In article <[e-mail]>
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> [e-mail] (Scott '~ibo' Ramming) writes:
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >In article <[e-mail]>
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>[e-mail] (Salamander~) writes:
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>[e-mail] (Kevin L. McBride) writes:
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>[e-mail] (James 'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> In article <[e-mail]>
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>[e-mail] (barry.o.olson) writes:
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >In article <[e-mail]>,
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>[e-mail] (Russ Taylor) writes:
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> In article <[e-mail]>
>|> >[e-mail]
>|> >(J
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>'Kibo' Parry) writes:
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> [Intervening drivel removed]
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >>He rode the May Day WASPS.
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >She ate the Payday wrapper.
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >GEE, THIS IS A WASTE OF BANDWIDTH.  I WISH YOU PEOPLE
>|> >WOUL
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> >YOU'RE RUINING THE NET FOR *EVERYONE*.
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Very interesting. So you want everyone else to stop,
>|> >but
>|> >on
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> added your ten cents?  A thousand-degree flame on you!
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> (homey don't play dat!)
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> btw, what the hell _is_ bandwitdth?
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >while snoopy ate a sandwich
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> Charlie Brown's fat head width.
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> And why is this a waste of it?
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >because he made a paste of it
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> Schroeder played a tune of it.
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >> Russ "gremlins" Taylor
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> >he never was a sailor
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> the Cleavers met Norm Mailer.
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> WON'T YOU PLEASE HELP THIS CASCADE NOT CONTINUE?  PLEASE
>|> >EXERC
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>> SELF-RESTRAINT AND *DO NOT* FOLLOWUP TO IT.
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>>Okay.
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >>       Come on guys, I think he means it.  Don't follow up to
>|> >this.
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >No, both Kibo & Kevin are never serious.
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >Go ahead and follow up.
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >Or kill me.
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >Or kill Kibo, who started this whole mess.
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>Shhhh!
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >[e-mail]
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >M. Scott '~ibo' Ramming  305 Memorial Dr, Room 615A, Cambridge
>|> >MA
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> >(  the  nonibo  -ibo  )  [phone] [home]  [phone]
>|> >[of
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>>  No!  Don't follow up to this!  Whatever you do, _don't_ press
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> that "f" button!  It's a sin!  It's a sin!  This is against the
>|> >god
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> of bandwidth and all that is wholly!  See what you do!  You    e
>|> >wast
>|> >a
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> waste and waste until the unthinkable happens!  Nay, until the
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> _unspeakable_ happens, for I cannot even begin to describe the
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> world-wide atrocities that will continue if you follow this up!
>|> >My
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> _GOD_!  How can you even think it!  How can you dream it and
>|> >still
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> remain sane?!?!?  How can it be?!?!?!?!  Gah!!!!
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> [e-mail]      | The meek shall inherit the     ,
>|> >earth
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> [e-mail] |  and the wise keep moving on...
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>> Rev. M @P.O. Box 156     O
>|> >|------------------------------------
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>>  Amherst, NY  14226      +    |Ask me about the Secret Society!
>|> >Sh
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>What is going on here? Can someone fill me in on this discussion?
>|> >I
>|> >|> > >>>>>>>>missed the earlier parts.
>|> >|> > >>>>>>There.  No more wasted "Bandwidth"
>|> >|> > >>>>>Huh?
>|> >|> > >>>>Duh!
>|> >|> > >>>NOT!
>|> >|> > >>Got.
>|> >|> > >Gott.
>|> >|> > What?
>|> >|> Je Ne Comprends Pas.... Pas!
>|> >Paass the pepper, salty!
>|> Grass is healthy, mostly.
>Only when chewed slowly!!
besides, it makes u pee

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`^^~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~O


--
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!uflorida!pine.circa.ufl.edu!username
From: [e-mail] (Elmer Fudd, Millionaire)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Apr 92 21:16:18 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Followup-To: /dev/null
Organization: University Domain (edu)
Lines: 22
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5353 alt.conspiracy:14240 talk.religion.newage:10089 alt.paranormal:4808
Nntp-Posting-Host: pine.circa.ufl.edu

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Mark Robert Thorson) writes...
>Gary, you're absolutely right!  I was one of those aliens, sent here
>from Arcturus to spy and harass you Earthlings.

You're an Arcturan?!?!?!?!  Well, I'm a Zeta-Reticulan!!! We're practically
neighbors!  Hiya, friend!

>And how do you explain the incredible energy emanating from the hands
>of BENNY HINN?  Yes friends, the Arcturans are everywhere!

Wait a minute.. Now I know Benny.. He's definitely from the Pleiades.  I'm
most certain, as I onced was in the business of creating fake Driver's
Liscences, and I used his as the 'preferred' copy, so everyone I made an ID
for has his address, and I distinctly recall it was 421 Lover's Lane,
Ipipoxshia, Pleiades, 90026.

Stephen Wright:
I woke up this morning and I looked around and everything in my apartment had
been stolen and replaced by an exact duplicate.  I called my friend and said
"Come over" and he came I asked him "Look, evertyhing in my apartments been
replaced by an exact duplicate.  What do you think?", and he looked at me and
he said "Do I know you?"
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!tulane!darwin.sura.net!convex!seas.smu.edu!utacfd.uta.edu!utagraph.uta.edu!utacnvx.uta.edu!rpcirp
From: [e-mail] (Dr. Ard Anjomani)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,talk.religion.newage,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Apr 92 03:49:13 GMT
References: <1992Apr16.003806.4972@anasaz> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Texas at Arlington
Lines: 17
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5354 alt.conspiracy:14252 talk.religion.newage:10090 alt.paranormal:4809
Nntp-Posting-Host: utacnvx.uta.edu
X-Bytes: 398

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Gary Stollman) writes:

>Not only do I believe it, I intend to PROVE it!!
>
>        Gary
>
> This is from
>     [e-mail]

We are waiting :)

PROOF! PROOF! PROOF!

[Holding toy guns to the heads of TV newspeople doen't quite send the right message.  Nurse, 1500mg Thorazine please.]

Did you take your lithium today?
Path: ns-mx!uunet!vuse.vanderbilt.edu!chandra
From: [e-mail] (Rohit Chandra)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Gary
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Apr 92 03:16:55 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (News Manager)
Organization: Vanderbilt University School of Engineering, Nashville, TN, USA
Lines: 27
Originator: chandra@cs8
Nntp-Posting-Host: cs8


This is specifically addressed to evrybody flaming
Gary -

The story that Gary has narrated is definitely OUT OF
THIS WORLD !! :-)

Either the guy is TOTALLY NUTS -
    In which case it is extremely cruel for so many
    people to crawl all over him at the same time,
    as if the guy doesn't have enough problems
    already !!

On the other hand, if he is right about everything -
    U r nuts !! (No offense intended)

So, people lets get off his back and give him a fair
oppurtunity to prove his claims. (Remeber : he intends
to).

--
    _  Later... Rohit Chandra
   {~}'
  ( V-)   Work  : [phone]
  `|Y|'  BitNet : chandrr@vuctrvax
  _|||_ InterNet: [e-mail]
______________________________________________________________________________
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!garys
From: [e-mail] (Gary Stollman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 18 Apr 92 15:47:54 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (BBS Login)
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Lines: 26

[e-mail] (Gary Stollman) writes:

>
> Come on!!!  Give me a break!!!  The shrinnk I was seeing in
> Tallahassee last year before I dropped him told me about this
> nonsense...Listen, you better get something and get it good;
> I am NOT insane, and this is ALL true, and by next week you
> may wish you had a one-way ticket to Mars!!  If you don't believe
> me, check out where this is coming from, then check out my new
> signature...Nice, ain't it??
>
>     Gary
> --
> Gary Stollman       GEnie:G.STOLLMAN
>                     Internet:[e-mail]
> Don't think I'm crazy cause I know twenty computer languages and
> have stolen more time on computers for free than you know about!!

*****
Hmm, here is the REAL note I sent...Interesting, isn't it??  This takes a
whole day or two to get here, and the notes which were "intercepted", only
took a few hours...I wonder who did that...

 This is from
     [e-mail]
who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!anasaz!qip!john
From: john@anasaz (John Moore)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <1992Apr18.174907.16313@anasaz>
Date: 18 Apr 92 17:49:07 GMT
Organization: Anasazi, Inc. Phoenix, AZ, USA
Lines: 29

Keywords:

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Gary Stollman) writes:
]Come on!!!  Give me a break!!!  The shrinnk I was seeing in
]Tallahassee last year before I dropped him told me about this
]nonsense...Listen, you better get something and get it good;
]I am NOT insane, and this is ALL true, and by next week you
]may wish you had a one-way ticket to Mars!!  If you don't believe
]me, check out where this is coming from, then check out my new
]signature...Nice, ain't it??

Boy, you sure had me worried for a minute there. Now that I know this
is all a hoax on your part, I feel much better.

]Don't think I'm crazy cause I know twenty computer languages and
]have stolen more time on computers for free than you know about!!

God I hope not! I have used over 30 computer languages, and stole
computer time so long ago that it was still legal, and I don't think
I'm crazy!

-Disclaimer: I don't steal computer time or hack other people's systems any
more, and haven't since I was a foolish college student in the '60s.

--
John Moore NJ7E, 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale, AZ 85253  (602-951-9326)
[e-mail] ncar!noao!asuvax!anasaz!john anasaz![e-mail]
This is a newer version of the memetic .signature infection.  Now that's an
idea.  Copy it into your .signature today!
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!spool.mu.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!nosc!crash!benno
From: [e-mail] (Benno Eichmann)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: ELECTRONIC IMPLANTS MADE BY HUMANS, UPC product code: `666'
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Apr 92 07:46:11 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Crash TimeSharing, El Cajon, CA
Lines: 33

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Gary Stimpson) writes:

><[e-mail]> writes:

>> Very Interesting, indeed!  When I was the mall a few months ago, I received a
>> lyer(so did every other car in the ENTIRE parking lot!) from a "religious" gr
>> p (sorry, i'm not sure) that stated that plans were under way in the Netherla
>> s (Banking Central of the world :-) ) to develop a sort of UPC code for human
>> (a.k.a elctronic implant?)  But there's more, It also said how every credit c
>> d has a special code (i'm not sure but Visa is 777, Am. Express is 999,etc.)
>> d this new "UPC" code is 666!!!!  So they were stating that the asnti-christ
>> not some stupid devil, but rather our fellow humans in power!  This is all fr
>> memory, i'm sorry, but that was the theme pretty much!  Whaddya think???

>Strange stuff.  I never knew credit cards had code #'s like that.  Can
>someone verify this?  Well, don't be fooled by what people say!

To Check:  Oserve, in a standard UPC code strip sequence, the pattern
           associated with the number 6. Then compare that pattern to
           did a neat trick by using the SYNC sequence pattern for
           the left-most, center, right-most codes.  The designer
           asigned that same pattern for the number 6.

           What was the persons point one might ask?

       Just another confused person ?
>
>Ttyl,
>Gary

>--
>[e-mail] (Gary Stimpson)
>The Orion Unix System [A/UX 2.0.1], Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!agate!dog.ee.lbl.gov!nosc!crash!benno
From: [e-mail] (Benno Eichmann)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space
Subject: Re: Federation Answers All Your Questions
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Apr 92 08:12:15 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Crash TimeSharing, El Cajon, CA
Lines: 7
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5359 sci.space:29163


Have there been any genuine alien off-world race contacts with
your group?

Government contact from any concerned agency?

      Just curious
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!jato!quake!bbs
From: [e-mail] (Nate Hawthorn)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space
Subject: Re: THE FEDERATIONERS HAVEN'T DIED!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 19 Apr 92 05:24:16 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (BBS User)
Organization: Quake Public Access
Lines: 16
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5360 sci.space:29164

[e-mail] writes:

>
> Hi Remeber when a person put a note about a group wanting to go to the moon?

I am interested, please send me more info or whatever.

You should have a "echo" here via E-Mail, I could help set up one.

There's more people interested in this than you think, lets reach them
I am near CIT and would love to visit you. I am very good with theories
if you would like to have a very interesting discussion!

Please contact me...

Nate..
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!rpi!psinntp!psinntp!visix!visix!ed
From: [e-mail] (Ed Devinney)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: galactic ftp sites
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 17 Apr 92 17:15:45 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: Visix Software Inc., Reston, VA
Lines: 18

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>    Does anyone have a list of the newest inter-planetary/inter-glalatic
>    ftp sites?

I hear the Pleiades has a bitchin' ftp archive, but it's tough to
get a stable connection, what with the multi-year latency times.

AT&T's ReachOutUniverse FTL plan might help, but at seven
quadrillion dollars for the first three minutes, you'll want a
really fast modem.

Or you could always ping monolith.moon.earth.sol and see if the
local node is up...

--
ed devinney                        [e-mail]
software guy            Visix Software Inc., Reston, VA, USA
            "We like sheep..." - G.F. Handel
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!malgudi.oar.net!news.ysu.edu!ysub!psuvm!cunyvm!a54si
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.sci.physics.new-theories
Subject: Dr. Hooper research
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Apr 92 00:54:24 GMT
Organization: City University of New York/ University Computer Center
Lines: 8
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5362 alt.sci.physics.new-theories:1313

I am starting research into the results found by Dr. W. Hooper of possibly a
 new sort of electric field generated by moving charges somehow. He did this
 in the 50s and 60s, and this research was the basis of the theories of the
 fringe scientist Wilbert Smith.

Please send any information or questions &  comments. Thank you.

Charles Hope   a54si@cunyvm    [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!uunet!bonnie.concordia.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!draco!sys6626!gstimp
From: [e-mail] (Gary Stimpson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: A question.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Apr 92 04:40:14 GMT
Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB
Lines: 7

WHY in the world would anybody want to go to the moon?

Gary

;--- (Gary Stimpson) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
;E-mail: [e-mail]
;system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!decwrl!pa.dec.com!shodha.enet.dec.com!major.league.nut.case!stollman
From: [e-mail] (Gary Stollman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Apr 92 13:50:03 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Tallahase Nut Farm and BBQ
Lines: 24


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Gary Stollman) writes...
>[e-mail] (Gary Stollman) writes:
>Hey, that's a cute trick!  Show ME how to do it sometime...
>
>        Gary
>
> This is from
>     [e-mail]
>who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet


        Well you  claim to know 20 programming languages (no less) and are
        so intelligent you figure out how.


        Gary (The REAL one not the clone phoney)

         This is from
             [e-mail]
        who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet


        But is incredibly obnoxious none the less.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!decwrl!pa.dec.com!shodha.enet.dec.com!major.league.nut.case!stollman
From: [e-mail] (Gary Stollman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Apr 92 14:02:19 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Tallahassee Nut Farm and BBQ
Lines: 14


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Gary Stollman) writes...

>Hmm, here is the REAL note I sent...Interesting, isn't it??  This takes a
>whole day or two to get here, and the notes which were "intercepted", only
>took a few hours...I wonder who did that...
>
> This is from
>     [e-mail]
>who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet

        I did!

        Gary (The real Gary Stollman and not the clone phoney)
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!decwrl!pa.dec.com!shodha.enet.dec.com!timpson
From: [e-mail] (Steve Timpson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: galactic ftp sites
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Apr 92 14:08:05 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Lines: 15


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Ed Devinney) writes...
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes:
>>    Does anyone have a list of the newest inter-planetary/inter-glalatic
>>    ftp sites?
>
>I hear the Pleiades has a bitchin' ftp archive, but it's tough to
>get a stable connection, what with the multi-year latency times.
>

        What you need is the latest in Sub Space Modems (SSM's) using the
        latest X.4000000 protocal.  It has a 1 X 10^100^100 baud rate.


        Steve Food_for_the_Greys
Path: ns-mx!uunet!clarkson!derrigfj
From: [e-mail] (Frank J. Derrigo)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: FAQ site?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Apr 92 16:35:27 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Clarkson University
Lines: 7
Nntp-Posting-Host: logic.camp.clarkson.edu

Greetings.  Could someone please e-mail or post the address
of an FAQ or similar FTP archive site (should there be one!).

Thank you in advance!

                Frank Derrigo
            ([e-mail])
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!dynamo.ecn.purdue.edu!wb9omc
From: [e-mail] (Duane P Mantick)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Mach6 spy plane
Keywords: spy ufo plane
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Apr 92 17:09:48 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET news)
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
Lines: 17

[e-mail] (Craig Becker) writes:

>...
>[talk of the SR 71 Blackbird deleted]
>...
>> (It is also, in my opinion, the most beautiful aircraft ever made, a
>> streamlined work of art).

>Yes, I agree. I was massively PO'ed when the government decided
>they were "obsolete". I think they should have kept them flying
>as a matter of national pride.

>Craig

    Just wait, you ain't seen nuthin' yet......

Duane
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!balrog!ctron.com!kbhatt
From: [e-mail] (Kulbhushan Bhatt)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Near Washington NJ
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Apr 92 20:51:51 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Lines: 2
Nntp-Posting-Host: giants
To: l228


ho........
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!news
From: [e-mail] (Travis R. Stone)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Hooper Correction
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Apr 92 21:11:20 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Lines: 9
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11


If I'm not mistaken, the fellow you were referring to
was Dr. HOPPITY Hooper, wasn't it?...A short little
fellow with a sickly green complexion, used to have an
associate named "Uncle Waldo"?....

T.R. Stone
University of Nebraska-Omaha
Home of the Toughest Organic Chemistry Instructors in the Galaxy
Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!raven.alaska.edu!acad2.alaska.edu!asljl
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: re: Skeptisim answered by Lady Rhavyn
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Apr 92 17:20:58 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Alaska
Lines: 19
Nntp-Posting-Host: acad2.alaska.edu

Yes we have created Icons and uniforms, And we did leave peices out.
we left them out because if we had put the entire 153 page note book
on tothe system i think people would be more than a little annoyed. We
also left peices of this large puzzle out because we don't want to
have the idea stolen, from what we can tell it will work. We have a
talked to numerous people in M.I.T and else where, and from what we have been
sneding them it will work but the pronblem is that we don't have the financing
yet to build it and discover whether we'll blow a hole the size of the arizona
crater in it ( For give me if my geographical location is incorret) the earth
that is or put a ship into space.  if you give me your U.s mail address
I'll send you information that has not been put on the vax system

Signed
Lady Rhavyn.

The requests for us mail system is not for profit/junkmail or anyother
type of stuff you get in the mail. It's strictly for sending information
that would allow you to see more of the picture that has already been
posted by a Federation Member. Thankyou.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!news
From: [e-mail] (Travis R. Stone)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: His Majesty, King Looney I..Gary Stollman
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Apr 92 21:45:32 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Lines: 34
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11

After reading his best-selling work "Invasion" (wherein we get
exactly what we pay for, i.e., NOTHING) I can only say:

                   Call the doctor,
                   Call the nurse---
                   Gary's bad,
                   And getting WORSE.

Once again, we are blessed with the twisted prose (and equally
twisted psyche) of His Majesty, King Gary I, Clone Prince of
Paranoia.  Say, Stollman, I thought the Grays got you a long
time ago; where've you been hiding?

Before you start castigating me as another archetypal Philistine
"unbeliever" who is either (a) "one of THEM already", or (b) a
nearsighted disbeliever who will "rue the day" when they replace
me with a clone, I'd like to ask you a serious sort of question,
if I may:

If the little green men from Zeta Reticuli wanted you out of the
way, why didn't they nail you when you were out cold as a foundered
flounder in the hospital after your accident?  Don't give me any
bilge about how they must have been afraid of getting "caught in
the act" by "genuine hospital personnel" either, because it won't
wash---any group of people who would serve a sick person Hospital
Jello would be too insensitive to care about him (or her) being
scragged by a gang of extraterrestrial Xerox representatives.

Well?

T.R. Stone
University of Nebraska-Omaha
Home of the Toughest Organic Chemistry Instructors in the Galaxy
(Both the REAL ones AND their clones.)
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!ames!bionet!raven.alaska.edu!acad2.alaska.edu!asljl
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space
Subject: RE: EVERYONE
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Apr 92 17:42:52 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Alaska
Lines: 11
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5373 sci.space:29195
Nntp-Posting-Host: acad2.alaska.edu

My internet address is this.......

[e-mail]

Try sending all your questions about the federation to me personally
I will try to answer them as quickly as I can.

thank you

Signed
Lady  Rhavyn
Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!ames!bionet!raven.alaska.edu!acad2.alaska.edu!asljl
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space
Subject: ANSWER TO THIS ADDRESS FOR FEDERATION INfO
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Apr 92 17:47:23 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Alaska
Lines: 9
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5374 sci.space:29197
Nntp-Posting-Host: acad2.alaska.edu

THis is my address for all of you who have questions about the
federation. MY internet address Is this Please try to use this and I will
do the best I can to answer all of you.

[e-mail]

Good luck to you all.

Lady Rhavyn
Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!rpi!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!raven.alaska.edu!acad2.alaska.edu!asljl
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: re: Lady Rhavyn answers Skeptics
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Apr 92 17:31:50 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Alaska
Lines: 18
Nntp-Posting-Host: acad2.alaska.edu

Thank you for your reality check. I think you are corret.
at this time we don't have blue prints to the gagdets, we are working on it
things are not eays to get things we need to do such reasearch up in alaska
so let me see. The best you could do at the momenbt is to send me
your us. mail address if you read the other message just posted by me today you
would know that I am not asking for money or to add you to  annoyong mail
lists strictly to have your address TO send you info with held from the
information I posted. because the real onew is 153 pages long.
I give you my word people. I am not telling to anythin that the head of this
group
has not told me I am trying to find intereted parties and give them all the
info I can provide. We ould like to see this Project up and running in
about 3 to five years.

Thank you for your time....

Signed
Lady Rhavyn,Recruitment Dept Head, For the Federation.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!ames!bionet!raven.alaska.edu!acad2.alaska.edu!asljl
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space
Subject: TO NATE AND BEN FROM LADY RHAVYN
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Apr 92 18:02:06 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Alaska
Lines: 17
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5376 sci.space:29198
Nntp-Posting-Host: acad2.alaska.edu

To Ben, I am glad that you asked that. so far there has been
no questions from the government. Aparremntly from what I can tell
they think we're just a bunch a collge students goofing arounbd.
I hope thats what they think anyway.

TO Nate.

I am in alaska. I posted my internet address. If you would like you could send
me your us mail and we could work on some more form there. THeres a lot
that was kept out of the inoformation I posted earlier. I am sure all of
you know why, Uncle sam would be more than a little interteseted if
we shoewed you all what we think this thing could do something to the affect
of giant laser comes to mine.

thank you for your questions.

Signed Lady Rhavyn
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!ames!bionet!raven.alaska.edu!acad2.alaska.edu!asljl
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space
Subject: aleins have not visited federationers
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Apr 92 18:05:29 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Alaska
Lines: 6
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Nntp-Posting-Host: acad2.alaska.edu


oh and no We have had no communications from
aliens. If we did, We haven't noticed. unless you call suddenly
being able to manifest thins we need to get this thing operational
help from the beings wjo ever they are.......
\
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!uunet!kbsw1!chris
From: chris@kbsw1 (Chris Kostanick 806 1044)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space
Subject: Re: Federation Answers All Your Questions
Message-ID: <1992Apr20.172140.6816@kbsw1>
Date: 20 Apr 92 17:21:40 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Chris Kostanick 806 1044)
Organization: Kentek Information Systems
Lines: 13
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5378 sci.space:29206

Hi friends, Art Fnorger here at Art Fnorger's Warehouse Of
Spacedrives! We're overloaded again and we've got to make
more room! We got all kinds of drives folks, including some
so advanced we're not even allowed to THINK about them! Just
look at this little beauty, it uses photon pressure, and all
you need to provide is 1 billion amps to get 2 pounds of
thrust! Now that's power! On a budget? Try this one. All you
need is a well three feet in diameter! Put the explosives
at the bottom, put the sheet metal over them and then
sit in the lawn chair! You'll be in orbit in no time!
Remember friends we're open 9 to 9 seven days a week
all major credit cards accepted! Drive, fly or walk, but
get here today!
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!moe.ksu.ksu.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!munnari.oz.au!news.hawaii.edu!mars!betelgeuse!pleiades!shatarr!dar
From: [e-mail] (Dwayne Ashtar-Ra)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Pleiades: Message to Terra
Message-ID: <4173696d6f76@pleiades>
Date: 19 Apr 92 13:25:00 GMT
Organization: Pleiadian Central Command
Lines: 40

Behold, Terrans.

This message comes direct from a Pleiadian collective consciousness
which you may refer to as "The Great Dwayne".

Verily there has been much discourse about the Pleiadians which has
caused the usual Terran disharmony and sadness.

There has been much talk of what you call "channellers" and of "First
Cause" and other things that have no more meaning than what you call
"meteors" that flare gaudily and burn themselves out.

Behold that we Pleiadians have infiltrated your flimsy electro-magnetic
communication structures, which you in your arrogance have built using
blasphemous mechanical devices which orbit in the very space about your
sphere, so that we may bring our message without adulteration.

It has been necessary to resort to technological measures as we have
found your Terran sphere to be so cloaked in greed and hatred that our
normal telepathic methods have failed. Look to your souls, Terrans.

Clear what you call your "minds" of preconception and meditate on what
follows.

That portion of our population which corresponds to what you would call
"females" have discovered that certain of your black male athletes have
a particular "physical prowess".  They have insisted that we make
contact with your puny sphere so that they may "make contact" in their
own special way, before all the black males succumb to the wasting
disease called "HELPS" which you in your foolishness have inflicted
upon your insignificant selves.

They have been what you would call "holding out" to force us to comply.
This has caused disharmony on our sphere, which must be purged in a
socially acceptable way, which usually involves what you call
"thermo-nuclear explosives". Which brings us to the real reason for
our impending visit.

Look to your souls, Terrans. Until we arrive, we request you to ponder
the following: do you feel lucky?
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From: [e-mail] (Gary Stollman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Help they are after me
Message-ID: <116165164143141163145@bluenote>
Date: 19 Apr 92 22:15:05 GMT
Lines: 11

Help I don;t know wher eto go

I have just signed on after many months and these are all these
notes supposedly written by me. some of them obvious forgerys

None of them were written by me. I have reason to believe they were written by my mom who is out to get me (my fake mom not my real one)Please do not believe any notes written
by me.

Gotta get out of here before they find out I am signed on.

Gary
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From: [e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: JACQUES VALLEE LECTURES IN UK
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 21 Apr 92 16:43:10 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293)
Organization: MRC Human Genome Resource Centre
Lines: 25
Nntp-Posting-Host: tin

World famous UFOlogist Jacques Vallee is in the UK on a lecture tour
& promoting the UK release of his new book (Revelations). This is
the final book in a triology, the others are Dimensions and
Confrontations.

I know of two dates/venues where he will be speaking. (Possibly
information on these and other dates is on UFOcall [0898 12 1886],
I have not checked)

On Saturday 25th April he is speaking at a half day conference organised
by the Independent UFO Network at UMIST. I think the cost is 8pounds 50
and start time 11am.

On Friday 24th April he is speaking at the Kensington Central Library,
Campden Hill Road, London, W8, starting at 6:30 pm. The cost is 4 pounds 50p.
Campden Hill Road is almost opposite Kensington High Street station, and
the library about two minutes walk. For further information contact
BUFORA on 0582 763218.

Steve.
--
(Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!)
Steve Gamble, Computing Services,
Clinical Research Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK.
Phone: [phone]  JANET: [e-mail] INTERNET: [e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (RDC)
Newsgroups: talk.bizarre,alt.alien.visitors,soc.rights.alien
Subject: UFO EXPO WEST MAY 9th & 10th
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 21 Apr 92 05:28:46 GMT
Followup-To: talk.bizarre,misc.test,rec.arts.startrek.misc
Organization: PTA BOARD COUNCIL OF THE GREATER UNITED STATES
Lines: 24
Xref: ns-mx talk.bizarre:55911 alt.alien.visitors:5382


UFO EXPO WEST
MAY 9TH &10TH, 1992
LAX HYATT HOTEL

"THIS YEAR'S EXPO PROMISES TO CONTAIN A LOT OF VERY EXCITING AND
UNIQUE PRESENTATIONS BY SOME OF THE PIONERS OF THE UFO FIELD.  THE UFO
PHENOMENA HAS BEEN OF PARTICULARLY IMPORTANTANCE IN THE LAST DECADE OF
THE 20TH CENTURY BECAUSE IT MAY BE VIEWED AS HUMANKIND'S WAKE UP
CALL."
    JAMES ARAMANT,
    PRODUCER


YES! I WANT TO SEE UFO AT MY DOOR! SEND ME
    O A SUBSCRIPTION FOR $21
    O A SAMPLE ISSUE FOR $3.95 + 1.5S&H
    O A FLYER WITH INFORMATION ABOUT BACK ISSUES

MAKE CHECK PAYABLE TO UFO, AND SEND TO: P.O. BOX 1053, SUNLAND, CA 91041

FOR INFORMATION CALL [phone]

--
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr!bluemoon!garys
From: [e-mail] (Gary Stollman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: His Majesty, King Looney I..Gary Stollman
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 21 Apr 92 11:00:27 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (BBS Login)
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Lines: 28

[e-mail] (Travis R. Stone) writes:
>
> If the little green men from Zeta Reticuli wanted you out of the
> way, why didn't they nail you when you were out cold as a foundered
> flounder in the hospital after your accident?  Don't give me any
> bilge about how they must have been afraid of getting "caught in
> the act" by "genuine hospital personnel" either, because it won't
> wash---any group of people who would serve a sick person Hospital
> Jello would be too insensitive to care about him (or her) being
> scragged by a gang of extraterrestrial Xerox representatives.
>
> Well?
>
> T.R. Stone
> University of Nebraska-Omaha
> Home of the Toughest Organic Chemistry Instructors in the Galaxy
> (Both the REAL ones AND their clones.)
>

*****
One of my friends is an organic chemistry PHD at Georgia Tech...
I guess I'm just lucky??

        Gary

 This is from
     [e-mail]
who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet
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From: [e-mail] (The Xanadian)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: re: Skeptisim answered by Lady Rhavyn
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 21 Apr 92 19:05:13 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Maine System
Lines: 2

I would, but I'm afraid I *still* cannot email you...  Better get on your
postmaster's butt... :)
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!news.Brown.EDU!noc.near.net!mars.caps.maine.edu!maine.maine.edu!io10081
From: [e-mail] (The Xanadian)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Pleiades: Message to Terra
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 21 Apr 92 19:12:58 GMT
References: <4173696d6f76@pleiades>
Organization: University of Maine System
Lines: 2

Ah ...someone knows how to use a mailing-daemon to post to NetNews... joy
of joys ... *sigh*
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!sunic2!sunic!kth.se!mathias
From: [e-mail] (Mathias Bage)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: His Majesty, King Looney I..Gary Stollman
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 21 Apr 92 22:37:48 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet)
Organization: Stacken Computer Club, Stockholm, Sweden
Lines: 5
Nntp-Posting-Host: alex.stacken.kth.se


  In Swedish, the word "stolle" means "someone who's crazy;
an idiot; a looney".

-Mathias
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From: [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Anti-Gravity ?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Apr 92 04:33:11 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (Net News)
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Lines: 12
Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com

Hello Anybody;
This might be the wrong area to post such a question,but it seems to be the
only place to ask such a question.Does anyone have any information on anti-gravity propulsion systems of any type i.e.(Biefield/Brown,Searle,Sandy Kidd,Scott Strachan,Victor Schauberger,etc.)? If not could you point me in the right direction. I've been doing research for a few years now now & have become quite interested in such technology.By the way a interesting book on the said subject is "Ether Technology" 'A rational approach to gravity control'
Author:Rho Sigma.This is quite an interesting group we have here. Keep up the out of the ordinary work.

Rod Beckwith A.K.A (Mr. Slugo)

--
Rod Beckwith      |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
[e-mail] |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
Datacom Corp I/S  |but the illusion of knowledge."
                  |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!wupost!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!barry
From: [e-mail] (Kenn Barry)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Apr 92 07:01:01 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: QQQCLC
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer) writes:
>    Before going into the clinical material, it may be useful to
>    recall the salient elements of Capgras syndrome. It has been
>    found in schizophrenia and, infrequently, by itself or in
>    affective psychoses. It has been described as a rare, colorful
>    syndrome in which the patient believes that a person, usually
>    closely related to him, has been replaced by an exact double....
>    in all the cases I have studied, perception remained unimpaired,
>    memory was intact, and there was no disorder of attention or
>    concentration or any clouding of consciousness. In none of my
>    patients was there any perceptible diminution of intellectual
>    grasp....

    Interesting; I'd never heard of Capgras syndrome before.
At the risk of revealing my ignorance, why is a condition that
involves no disorientation grouped with schizophrenia? The
description sounds like pretty classic paranoia to me.

                        Kayembee
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!n8emr.columbus.oh.us!bluemoon!garys
From: [e-mail] (Gary Stollman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Help they are after me
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Apr 92 05:53:58 GMT
References: <116165164143141163145@bluenote>
Sender: [e-mail] (BBS Login)
Organization: Blue Moon BBS ((614) 868-998[024])
Lines: 20

[e-mail] (Gary Stollman) writes:

> Help I don;t know wher eto go
>
> I have just signed on after many months and these are all these
> notes supposedly written by me. some of them obvious forgerys
>
> None of them were written by me. I have reason to believe they were written b
> by me.
>
> Gotta get out of here before they find out I am signed on.
>
> Gary

*****
Kinda makes you wonder, huh??

 This is from
     [e-mail]
who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature yet
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From: [e-mail] (Robert Sheaffer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <y56jl#=[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Apr 92 13:50:42 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 70
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Kenn Barry) writes:
>
>    Interesting; I'd never heard of Capgras syndrome before.
>At the risk of revealing my ignorance, why is a condition that
>involves no disorientation grouped with schizophrenia? The
>description sounds like pretty classic paranoia to me.

I re-post my earlier information. It's really all I have on the subject.

Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Path: mork!sheaffer
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 92 14:29:27 GMT
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)

I sent a copy of some of Gary Stollman's postings to a friend who is
knowledgeable about such things. He replies,

   "I really enjoyed the Stollman material. When Horowitz said, "Fight
    Back!" I don't think he meant with toy guns. He is a prize catch.
    The presence of Capgras' syndrome makes him a rara avis. Genital
    mutilation is a familiar theme in the literature on psychosis...

By way of explanation, he included the following:

    "The Capgras Syndrome and its Psychopathology" by B. Frank Vogel,
    M.D. (Am J Psychiatry 131:8, August 1974):

    ABSTRACT: Five case reports indicate that the Capgras syndrome, a
    condition in which the patient believes that a person closely
    related to him is actually an impostor, is far less rare than has
    been commonly accepted. The author discusses the psychodynamics,
    suggests that the syndrome itself is a massive defense system
    against disintegrative intrapsychic conflicts, and examines the
    clear-cut ego defense mechanisms employed.

    TEXT: Since it was first described in 1923, the Capgras syndrome has
    been accorded unusual respect and treatment because of its
    supposed rarity. From time to time, single cases have been
    reported as if each were a rara avis....

    Before going into the clinical material, it may be useful to
    recall the salient elements of Capgras syndrome. It has been
    found in schizophrenia and, infrequently, by itself or in
    affective psychoses. It has been described as a rare, colorful
    syndrome in which the patient believes that a person, usually
    closely related to him, has been replaced by an exact double....
    in all the cases I have studied, perception remained unimpaired,
    memory was intact, and there was no disorder of attention or
    concentration or any clouding of consciousness. In none of my
    patients was there any perceptible diminution of intellectual
    grasp....

So you see, Gary is a *very special* individual, and we should listen
to him with the kind of respect that such a person deserves!

--

--

        Robert Sheaffer - Scepticus Maximus - [e-mail]

 Past Chairman, The Bay Area Skeptics - for whom I speak only when authorized!

     "In the 1970's the world will undergo famines - hundreds of millions
     of people are going to starve to death in spite of any crash programs
     embarked upon now ... in 1985, when it is calculated [under the most
     optimistic scenario] that the major die-back will be over, ..."

                       Dr. Paul Ehrlich, "The Population Bomb," 1968
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From: [e-mail] (Bat Rastard)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Apr 92 17:10:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News Administrator)
Organization: Williams College Center for Computing
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News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Kenn Barry) writes...
>
>    Interesting; I'd never heard of Capgras syndrome before.
>At the risk of revealing my ignorance, why is a condition that
>involves no disorientation grouped with schizophrenia? The
>description sounds like pretty classic paranoia to me.
>
>                        Kayembee
Isn't paranoia itself a subclass  of schizophrenia?
 Dan Sissman                  "Why pay retail prices for slaughter?
 [e-mail]     We can do it for you wholesale!"
 Williams College                -H. Illin, Esq.
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From: [e-mail] (David Tiberio)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Help they are after me
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Apr 92 19:40:30 GMT
References: <116165164143141163145@bluenote> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet poster)
Organization: State University of New York at Stony Brook
Lines: 33
Nntp-Posting-Host: csws17.ic.sunysb.edu

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Gary Stollman) writes:
>[e-mail] (Gary Coleman) writes:
>
>> Help I don;t know wher eto go
>>
>> I have just signed on after many moths and these are all these
>> notes supposedly written by me. some of them obvious for greys
>>
>> None of them were read by me. I have raisins that believe they were written b
>> by me.
>>
>> Gotta get out of here before they find out I am signed off.
>>
>> Arnold
>
>*****
>Kinda makes me wander, huh??
>
> This is from
>     [e-mail]
>who doesn't have their own obnoxious signature you yutz


    I don't understand why you are calling the older posts forgeries.
Could you please explain for us? Thanks.




--
      //   David Tiberio  SUNY Stony Brook 2-3662  AMIGA  DDD-MEN
     // Hi! I am a .sig phage. I copy myself into your .sig and replicate!
   \X/  Liverpool, New York    flames to [e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Kenn Barry)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Apr 92 20:21:15 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: QQQCLC
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Kenn Barry) writes...
>>    Interesting; I'd never heard of Capgras syndrome before.
>>At the risk of revealing my ignorance, why is a condition that
>>involves no disorientation grouped with schizophrenia? The
>>description sounds like pretty classic paranoia to me.
>>
>Isn't paranoia itself a subclass  of schizophrenia?

    Nope. There's "paranoia", and there's "paranoid schizophrenia",
or at least that's the terminology I grew up with. Paranoid schizophrenia
is characterized by classic schizophrenic symptoms (e.g., hearing
voices), while paranoia is a more purely ideational disorder. The true
paranoid believes in vast conspiracies, and may engage in antisocial
behavior, but suffers from no hallucinations or other sensory distortion.

    True paranoia is considered rare, probably because you have to
be violent and dangerous before you get to count it as an illness.
Speaking for myself, I've found paranoia a quite common condition -
just look at your average religious or political extremist. But unless
they are violent, we don't lock 'em up (thank goodness!).

                        Kayembee
Path: ns-mx!uunet!wrs!davidj
From: [e-mail] (David Jones)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Anti-Gravity ?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Apr 92 21:36:49 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (News Manager)
Organization: Wind River Systems, Inc.
Lines: 36
Nntp-Posting-Host: erra.wrs.com

Rod Beckwith writes:
> Does anyone have any information on anti-gravity propulsion systems of any type

    Yes.  Borderland Sciences has a lot of info.  So  does  the  International
    Tesla Society in Colorado Springs.  I've got a personal library of about a
    hundred books and monographs on this subject.  Also, the U. S.  Government
    has  been  testing this stuff for over 20 years.  Have you seen "The Lazar
    Tape"?  Stanford Research Institute (now SRI International) did ``ion pro-
    pulsion''  testing similar to what Rho Sigma describes, back in the `70's.
    It needed an umbilical cord large enough to juice it to about 5 or 6  mil-
    lion volts DC to levitate a 6 foot disk about 3 feet off the floor.

    Apparently, getting something to levitate, as it were, is  not  too  tough
    (the  principle  is  based  on  a giant capacitor and/or rotating magnetic
    fileds).  The REAL issue is, what on-board power supply  can  safely  gen-
    erate  the  continuous  amount of high voltage necessary to keep it up?  I
    wonder if this has anything to do with the  fact  that  many  people  have
    heard  what  sounded like 6 diesel locomotives going uphill emanating from
    those large (supposedly extraterrestrial) triangular UFOs over Belgium and
    the eastern U.S.?

    I recently spoke with a world-class astronomer former  Sky  and  Telescope
    editor)  that  used  to have a radio talk show.  About 2 years ago, he had
    this professor of electrical engineering from Penn State U. in  New  Kens-
    ington  on  that  pulled  a  saucer  shaped  anti-gravity  device out of a
    suitcase and which continued to levitate for the three hours of the  radio
    program.   Apparently,  he  has written some stuff for the IEEE Journal on
    this before. It based upon Maxwell's  equations,  slightly  altered.   His
    name is H. Franz (I think).  Anyone know anyone at Penn State in New Kens-
    ington to see if there is a Franz in the EE Dept there?

-------------------
  David W. Jones
  [e-mail] OR
  uunet!wrs!davidj
-------------------
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!news.bbn.com!ingria
From: [e-mail] (Bob Ingria)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Apr 92 22:01:44 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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In-reply-to: [e-mail]'s message of 22 Apr 92 20:21:15 GMT

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Kenn Barry) writes:
   In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bat Rastard) writes:
   >In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Kenn Barry) writes...

   >Isn't paranoia itself a subclass  of schizophrenia?

       Nope. There's "paranoia", and there's "paranoid schizophrenia",
   or at least that's the terminology I grew up with. Paranoid schizophrenia
   is characterized by classic schizophrenic symptoms (e.g., hearing
   voices), while paranoia is a more purely ideational disorder. The true
   paranoid believes in vast conspiracies, and may engage in antisocial
   behavior, but suffers from no hallucinations or other sensory distortion.

There is also the dual of paranoia, erotomania.  This is the
delusionary belief that there is a conspiracy to do good things for
you, or that some powerful figure is in love with you (secretly, of
course) and manipulating affairs behind the scenes to help you.  The
guy on Saturday Night Live (John Lovitz?) who used to do the routine
that ended with ``...yeah, and my wife, Morgan Fairchild'' would have
been an example of this if he really believed his tall tale.

       True paranoia is considered rare, probably because you have to
   be violent and dangerous before you get to count it as an illness.
   Speaking for myself, I've found paranoia a quite common condition -
   just look at your average religious or political extremist. But unless
   they are violent, we don't lock 'em up (thank goodness!).

Here things get blurry.  It's been more that 15 years since I read the
old APA handbook discussion on paranoia and other psychoses, but if I
remember correctly, the idea at the time was every psychotic goes
through a moment of ``psychotic insight''.  (Presumably this need not
be true for those psychoses now diagnosed as arganic.)  This is the
moment at which everything falls into place: the paranoid sees that
all his problems are due to the fact that the commies are fluoridating
the water.  And once this insight occurs, nothing will shake it.  It's
like the moment at which an ordinary person forms a hypothesis, except
that the very fact of forming the hypothesis is its own confirmation.
I think that what we loosely call ``paranoia'' is not quite of the
same depth, and that people who are ``paranoid'' are more so because
of ignorance (see, e.g., the 666 in the universal bar code of
fundamentalist Christians and Black Muslims) or laziness (i.e. the
conspiracy theory explains things so neatly that the believer just
doesn't want to give it up; see, e.g., JFK assassination buffs who
won't accept any criticism of their favorite theory/author).  Also,
clinical paranoia, like all psychoses, would be crippling in a way
that what we commonly call paranoia is not.

-30-
Bob
Path: ns-mx!uunet!bonnie.concordia.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!draco!sys6626!inqmind!celeste
From: [e-mail] (Celeste)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: New User
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Apr 92 07:41:15 GMT
Organization: The Inquiring Mind  1 204 488-1607
Lines: 8

So, there's another Celeste on this board - confusing, isn't it. Well
Celeste pryma, tell me about yourself? It's interesting to find another
user that shares my first name! Post me!
                                Later!
                                        -Celeste S.

[e-mail]
The Inquiring Mind BBS, Winnipeg, Manitoba  204 488-1607
Path: ns-mx!uunet!polari!stephsf.com!wengland
From: [e-mail] (Bill England)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Mach6 spy plane
Keywords: spy ufo plane
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Apr 92 21:14:42 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]>
Organization: Stephen Software Systems Inc., Tacoma/Seattle, [phone]
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (jcj) writes:
>
>This sounds a little like "Aurora", a very black unmanned
>project.  Anybody hear anything more?
>--
>                [e-mail]

  Yes, people in LA have been hearing 'it' for a few months now.
  Apperently a large hypersonic aircraft, with a sonic discription
  unlike the space shuttle, has been making the buildings shake.
  (Lets see too big for a fighter, Not a Shuttle, Certainly not
  the Concord.  Hmm Aliens ??  Yea, Yea, Thats the ticket ... :-)  )

  Other than that there have been several reports of 'large meteors'
  flying through the sky over Oregon.  The space shuttle recently
  left a similar type of track, over OR, a few months ago.  (I'm
  not claiming these are not meteors but, since when do they have
  a schedule :-) ??? )

  (Pop. Sci: did an article about a possible Aurora project a few
   months ago.)

  Anyway the Blackbird is obsolete.  I'm glad they retired it
  (and replaced it) and am impressed by those who built and fly
  them.

  Now I suppose that I should shut up about it. :-)


--
 +-  Bill England,  [e-mail] -----------------------------------+
 |   * *      H -> He +24MeV                                                |
 |  * * * ... Oooo, we're having so much fun making itty bitty suns *       |
 |__ * * ___________________________________________________________________|
Path: ns-mx!uunet!olivea!sgigate!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb
From: [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Great M.U.F.O.N. Article
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Apr 92 06:02:21 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (Net News)
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Lines: 14
Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com

Hello Anybody;
For anyone interested ,the April 92' issue of the M.U.F.O.N. UFO Journel #288
has an excellant article written by Anne Macfie: Entitled "Return to Roswell"For those of you that have been following the Roswell case with great interest,this is a real barn burner. Without going into great detail,the author interviews the mortician of Roswell at the time of the alledged incident. Who happened to be in the right place in the right time to witness some very interesting activities at the ARMY AIRBASE hospital with a very tall irrate (RED_HEADED) foul mouthed ARMY officer,does this characte



r sound very familiar?I don't want to ruin the rest of this most important peace of journalism for you,so I'll leave it up to your curiosity to get the rest of the story & comment accordingly.
I say if it walks like a duck,swims like a duck,quacks like a duck,IT SURE AS HELL AIN'T NO DAMN WEATHER BALLOON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THANKS,
Rod Beckwith A.K.A. (Mr. Slugo)

--
Rod Beckwith      |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
[e-mail] |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
Datacom Corp I/S  |but the illusion of knowledge."
                  |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!wupost!psuvax1!psuvm!lmuacad!cgriff
From: [e-mail] (Mr. Craig Griffith)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Mach6 spy plane
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Apr 92 06:31:52 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]>
Organization: LOYOLA MARYMOUNT UNIV - CENTER FOR ACADEMIC COMPUTING
Lines: 3


Saw a small report (and interesting video ) on the Aurora on the Channel 9 news
yesterday.. very small.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!mcsun!sun4nl!sara5!hasara11!a410jacq
From: [e-mail] (Jacqueline Cote)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: JACQUES VALLEE LECTURES IN UK
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Apr 92 17:52:12 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: SARA - Stichting Academisch Rekencentrum Amsterdam
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Hmmm hadn't  Vallee given up his belief in little green men and hadn't
he gone back to Astrophysics? He still publishes in magazines like
Astronomy and Astrophysics. Or are there TWO Jacques' Vallee?

Jacqueline
________________________________________________________________________________
Jacqueline Cote'     | Astronomical Inst., Un. of Amsterdam
                     | Kruislaan 403, 1098 SJ Amsterdam, The Netherlands
A410JACQ@HASARA11    |   phone: [phone]  [phone] (home)
[e-mail] |   telex: 10262 hef nl     FAX: [phone]
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From: [e-mail] (Duane P Mantick)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Mach6 spy plane
Keywords: spy ufo plane
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Apr 92 16:55:25 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>      <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET news)
Organization: Purdue University Engineering Computer Network
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[e-mail] (Bill England) writes:

>  Anyway the Blackbird is obsolete.  I'm glad they retired it
>  (and replaced it) and am impressed by those who built and fly
>  them.

    Uh, how about this as a modification to your statement:

"I'm glad they preserved them in museums after replacing it and am
impressed..." etc. etc.

    Keep in mind that even though the Blackbirds are a design product
of the late fifties and built in the sixties, they were a completely
revolutionary aircraft in terms of powerplant design (the mating of the
J58 and the Blackbirds incredible shockwave-management system is and
was a stunning achievement), materials (the Titanium alloy created all
sorts of unique problems that the Skunk Works overcame) and especially
considering that most of the design was done with slide-rule
technology!

    The A12/M12/YF12/SR71/GTD21 family was an absolute masterpiece
of design and engineering.  Moreover, it was a masterpiece of
teamwork.....and THAT has always been the trademark of the Lockheed
Skunk-Works.  Putting together the BEST team for the job and giving
them enough rope to get the job done.  Anbody who wants to know
more about it should read the Kelly Johnson book "More Than My Share"
which tells all about his design work and philosophies.

Duane
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From: [e-mail] (Bat Rastard)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Crop Circles
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Apr 92 16:58:00 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News Administrator)
Organization: Williams College Center for Computing
Lines: 6
News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.4-b1

Does anyone out there have "official" instructions about how to make convincing
crop circles?

 Dan Sissman                  "Why pay retail prices for slaughter?
 [e-mail]     We can do it for you wholesale!"
 Williams College                -H. Illin, Esq.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!bonnie.concordia.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!draco!sys6626!inqmind!celeste
From: [e-mail] (Celeste)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: user
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Apr 92 07:38:06 GMT
Organization: The Inquiring Mind  1 204 488-1607
Lines: 6

So, there's a Tesla fan I see. The Nikola gave it away. Another Tesla
fan! Bonus! Have a psychotic supper, Nikola.    Later!
                                                        -Celeste

[e-mail]
The Inquiring Mind BBS, Winnipeg, Manitoba  204 488-1607
Path: ns-mx!uunet!bonnie.concordia.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!draco!sys6626!inqmind!celeste
From: [e-mail] (Celeste)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Chatting
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Apr 92 07:52:51 GMT
Organization: The Inquiring Mind  1 204 488-1607
Lines: 5

Oh, luminous entity, are you ever available for chatting? If so, when is
the best time to do so?

[e-mail]
The Inquiring Mind BBS, Winnipeg, Manitoba  204 488-1607
Path: ns-mx!uunet!rosevax!aquarius!grante
From: grante@aquarius (Grant Edwards)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Apr 92 19:30:15 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News administrator)
Organization: Rosemount, Inc.
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[e-mail] (Bob Ingria) writes:
: In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Kenn Barry) writes:
:
: There is also the dual of paranoia, erotomania.  This is the
: delusionary belief that there is a conspiracy to do good things for
: you, or that some powerful figure is in love with you (secretly, of
: course) and manipulating affairs behind the scenes to help you.
:

Sounds like most of the people on the talk shows on channel 14.  It
used to be the Christian Broadcasting Network, now it's called
something a bit milder (the Family Channel?) but it's as inane as
ever.

The powerful figure that manipulates things to help them is god, and
they give him credit for all sorts of stupid things.

--
Grant Edwards                                 |Yow!  I'm having a BIG BANG
Rosemount Inc.                                |THEORY!!
                                              |
[e-mail]                 |
Path: ns-mx!uunet!stanford.edu!mcnc!borg!excalibur!ingram
From: [e-mail] (Robert Ingram)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Summary: poor, poor gary. He needs some friends.
Keywords: looney
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Apr 92 19:44:34 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
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In many articles [e-mail] (Gary Stollman) writes:
>
> [deleted]
>

PLEASE HAVE SOME CONSIDERATION FOR THE READERS OF THIS NEWSGROUP
AND POST THIS SORT OF MATERIAL TO *ALT.FORGERY* WHERE IT BELONGS.

THANK YOU!!!

>    Gary
>--
>Gary Stollman       GEnie:G.STOLLMAN
>                    Internet:[e-mail]
>Don't think I'm crazy cause I know twenty computer languages and
                                      ^
                                      |
                              post versions of "Hello, World!" in each

-----robert ingram----
[e-mail]
            who dont have their own innarestin disease yet
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From: [e-mail] (Walter D. Pullen)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: BEAMSHPS.GIF (385x385xB/W) Nine line drawings of Pleiadian spacecraft.
Summary: Description and included uuencoded GIF file.
Keywords: Pleiadians
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Apr 92 01:27:22 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Washington Computer Science
Lines: 222


     One of my more favorite UFO books is "UFO Contact from the
Pleiades" by Lt. Col. Wendelle Stevens. Part of the reason is because
of the wealth of information on the various spacecraft used by the
Pleiadian and other similar races. Scattered throughout the book were
various line drawings of these craft. I have compiled most of them
together into a informational GIF image. The nine beamships included
are: The three types of scout craft used by Semjase and the other
Pleiadians; several other Pleiadian craft including a miniship, a
remote controlled drone, and a rather large ship; and finally the
beamships uses by the Lyrian, Vegan, and DAL Universe races. Each of
these types was seen by Billy Meier at least once, and pictures of
most of them are in various books. Along with each beamship image, is
a small amount of text giving its diameter, crew size, color, and any
other main identifying features. To create the image, I used the X11
bitmap(1) program to manually create each craft. Then I had the C
language X interface draw the text and merge it with the bitmap, which
I then converted to the GIF file. Anyway, enjoy the image; it can come
in handy during a close encounter UFO sighting, so you can know in
advance who it is without having to ask them after they've landed! :)


----BEGIN INCLUDED FILE CUT HERE----
begin 600 beamshps.gif
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M#   [

end
----END INCLUDED FILE CUT HERE----


-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
|     Walter D. "Cruiser1" Pullen     |     [e-mail]     |
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
|   "Who am I, What am I?  As I am, I am not.  But as we are, I AM.  And to   |
-   you my creation, My Perfect Love is your Perfect Freedom. And I will be   -
|   with you forever and ever, until the End, and then forever more." - GOD   |
-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!datum.nyo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!shodha.enet.dec.com!timpson
From: [e-mail] (Steve Timpson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Near Washington NJ
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Apr 92 13:29:36 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Lines: 8


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Kulbhushan Bhatt) writes...
>
>ho........

        Hey!!!  Who you callin a ho!

        Steve Food_for_the_Greys 8^)
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!datum.nyo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!shodha.enet.dec.com!timpson
From: [e-mail] (Steve Timpson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Pleiades: Message to Terra
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Apr 92 13:33:10 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Lines: 9


In article <4173696d6f76@pleiades>, [e-mail] (Dwayne Ashtar-Ra) writes...

>Look to your souls, Terrans. Until we arrive, we request you to ponder
>the following: do you feel lucky?

        Ya! I feel lucky... Bring it on!!!!

        Steve Food_for_the_Greys
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!shodha.enet.dec.com![e-mail] (Gary Stollman)
From: [e-mail] (Gary Stollman)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Help they are after me
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 22 Apr 92 13:36:28 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Tallahassee Mental Sanatorium and BBQ
Lines: 40


In article <116165164143141163145@bluenote>, [e-mail] (Gary Stollman) writes...
>Help I don;t know wher eto go
>
>I have just signed on after many months and these are all these
>notes supposedly written by me. some of them obvious forgerys
>
>None of them were written by me. I have reason to believe they were written by my mom who is out to get me (my fake mom not my real one)Please do not believe any notes written
>by me.
>
>Gotta get out of here before they find out I am signed on.
>
>Gary

        The above note is  obviously  a  fake.    The  real  Gary is more
        articulate than this.   Besides  the  posting  looks like it came
        from a FIDO net source.    Gary  does  not  post  from a FIDO net
        source.

        Gary, Gary, Gary....

        OK I am going to  come  clean.   This is really Gary Stollman.  I
        work for the Shop, you know  "THE SHOP." I volunteered to have my
        self cloned as an experiment in creating  legions  of  clones  as
        solders to help the Reticulans in a battle  against  a Cylon like
        race  from  Altair.    You  escaped  and  instead of  having  you
        terminated we decided to watch you.  You went insane  and we have
        decided  the experiment was a complete failure.  You are a  fluke
        of the Universe.


        Now Gary if you believe this I have some land in Florida for you.


        Sorry Gary I have been having  fun  at  your  expense.    I still
        believe that you are unstable but that  just  makes your postings
        interesting and entertaining.


        Steve Food_for_the_Greys
Path: ns-mx!uunet!charon.amdahl.com!amdahl!JUTS!duts!dfs30
From: [e-mail] (Denise Solis)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Serious research
Keywords: UFO research
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Apr 92 17:23:07 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Denise)
Organization: Amdahl Corporation, Sunnyvale CA
Lines: 18

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Karl Bridges) writes:
>
> Isn't it time that there be a new group established i.e.
>alt.ufo.research for those who are seriously interested in what's going
>on as a scientific/sociological phenomenon.  Paranoid drug induced
>fantasies are, for those interested, OK, but that's all that ever
>appears here.  We need less from the lunatic fringe and more from some
>serious research.

I agree most wholeheartedly! My kill file is getting HUGE!

                              Denise

--
=========================================================================
>>>>>>>>>>>||      Copyright (c) Denise faith Solis 1991    ||<<<<<<<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>>>||             [e-mail]         ||<<<<<<<<<<<
=========================================================================
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From: [e-mail] (Phred T. Platypus)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Pleiades: Message to Terra
Message-ID: <+t8j=[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Apr 92 07:15:12 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque
Lines: 14

>In article <4173696d6f76@pleiades>, [e-mail] (Dwayne Ashtar-Ra) writes...
>
>>Look to your souls, Terrans. Until we arrive, we request you to ponder
>>the following: do you feel lucky?
>

   Where are these guys from?  The planet of Clint Eastwood imitators?


--
"You ask me if sex is one of the most  _\_\    _/_/     Phred Platypus
 important things in life?  Absolutely. _\_\  _/_/  Grammarian of Vengeance
 But the lack of it is even likelier     _\_\_/_/ [ [e-mail] ]
 to drive you nuts." -- Harlan Ellison    _\_/       Vincent J. Murphy
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From: [e-mail] (Andre Eichner)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: UFO meeting in Berlin
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 20 Apr 92 04:29:00 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Lines: 57

Hi Clark!
 CM>Meiner Erinnerung nach, war Armstrong Astronaut in der
 CM>fruehern Tagen des US Space Program.  Ich habe nichts von
 CM>seiner Roswell-Aktivitaeten gehoert.  Sind Sie sicher, dass
 CM>diesen Mann gutglaeubig ist?  Entw. echt Astronaut od. echt
 CM>Roswellzeuge?
Soweit ich weis, ist er nicht der Raumfahrer. Der hat wohl einen anderen
 Vornamen.

Der Kongress war ein Super-Erfolg. Einzige Ausnahme: Dr.Fred Bell, der hatte
 den totalen Reinfall und hat sich dann auch nicht mehr auf die
 Abschlussveranstaltung getraut.

Es wurde eine detailierte Information ueber das Philadelphia-Experiment
 gegeben. Die von Tesla und Einstein entwickelte allgemeine Feldtheorie und wie
 die Felder eingesetzt wurden. Ich hatte auch noch Abends auf einem Essen mit
 den Referenten in einem persoenlichen Gespraech, eine Menge erfahren koennen.

Interessant waren die Info's zu Area 51, S4, der unterirdischen Anlagen, von
 wo aus die Grey-Aliens starten und landen.

Es wurde auch jede Menge ueber die Duale Technologie gesprochen, und das die
 USA bereits ueber zahlreiche Raumschiffe mit einem Antriebssystem das dem
 Searl-System (Bifeld-Brown-Effekt) entspricht.

Die Funktionsweise der Element-115 Reaktoren mit dem besonderen Graviton
 wurden ausfuehrlich erlautert. Die Militaers in USA habe die Reaktoren bereits
 selbst herstellen koennen und verfuegen ueber eine grosse Menge von
 Element-115, das sie von den Grauen bekommen haben.

Zu den Entfuehrungen durch die Grey-Aliens wurde von Edit Fiore eine Hypnose
 an einem Berliner durchgefuehrt, wobei herauskam, das dieser mehrmals von den
Grauen entfuehrt wurde. Das Raumschiff der Grauen soll dabei am Teufelsberg,
 vor der US-Radar-Station gelandet sein.

Douglas Pue berichtete ueber die Verwicklungen der US-Regierung mit den Grauen
 und auch ueber die Bilderberger-Verschwoehrung. Namen wollte er nicht nennen,
aber die kann man ja im MJ-12 Dokument nachlesen... Kohl ist ueberigens auch
 dabei!

Jerry Wills zeigte 2 Gegenstaende, die er von seinen Ausserirdischen Freunden
bekommen haben will (konnte ich nicht nachpruefen, ob die wirklich
 ausserirdisch waren...)

Brian O'Leary fuehrte und Psychokinese vor, wie bei Metallen durch geistige
 Energie die Molekularbindung voruebergehend geschwaecht wird. Er ist in
 Amerika ein Astronomie und Physikprofessor.

Achmed Khamas stellte eine Syrische Machine vor, die mit freier Energie aus
 dem Wasser angetrieben wurde und Strom erzeugt.

ok. Ich hoffe du kannst den Text uebersetzen.

cheers
   Andre
---
 * Origin: FidoNet-Berlin, the magic node  (2:2403/10)
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From: [e-mail] (Aaron Anderer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Mach6 spy plane
Keywords: spy ufo plane
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Apr 92 14:21:23 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: SPECTROX SYSTEMS [phone] Silicon Valley, Ca
Lines: 22

[e-mail] (Bill England) writes:

> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (jcj)
> >
> >This sounds a little like "Aurora", a very black unmanned
> >project.  Anybody hear anything more?
> >--
> >                [e-mail]
>
>   Yes, people in LA have been hearing 'it' for a few months now.
>   Apperently a large hypersonic aircraft, with a sonic discription
>   unlike the space shuttle, has been making the buildings shake.
>   (Lets see too big for a fighter, Not a Shuttle, Certainly not
>   the Concord.  Hmm Aliens ??  Yea, Yea, Thats the ticket ... :-)  )

yeah they were talking about it on the network news.  They had some footage of
a desert facility in New Mexico and they showed some video tape of Floating
lights.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Aaron Anderer, System Operator                [e-mail]
SPECTROX SYSTEMS [phone]              szebra!spectrx!aaron
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From: [e-mail] (Gary Stimpson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Chatting
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 23 Apr 92 19:52:55 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB
Lines: 10

[e-mail] (Celeste) writes:

> Oh, luminous entity, are you ever available for chatting? If so, when is
> the best time to do so?

Are you ok?

;--- (Gary Stimpson) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
;E-mail: [e-mail]
;system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8
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From: [e-mail] (Leonard Spani)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: PENTAGON ADMITS IT HAS ALIEN VESSELS
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Apr 92 20:55:32 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Followup-To: sci.skeptic, alt.alien.visitors
Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Lines: 53
Xref: ns-mx sci.skeptic:22977 alt.alien.visitors:5416

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Daniel A Ashlock) writes:
|> In article <[e-mail]>,
|> [e-mail] (Len Bucuvalas) writes:
[...]
|> >
|> >     I recently heard a Radio One program in the UK that contained
|> > an interview with a leading proponent of the popular "US Government has
|> > aliens locked up and is experimenting with their spaceplanes" conspiracy
|> > theory. However this particular individual sounded very reasonable, did
|> > not make any outrageous claims, and further had some interesting facts
|>                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> > to disclose. In particular he mentioned several verifiable facts which
|> > I would like some followup on:
|>
|>    The above _is_ an outrageous claim.  I conclude you wouldn't know an
|> outrageous claim if it bit you in the anatomy.
|>
|> >     Rockwell International and NASA were planning a *massive*
|> > joint exhibition of space exploration this year (1991) but it was delayed
|> > inexplicably until 1992. In the *official* prospectus for this exhibition,
|> > one of the exhibits was clearly stated to be "an extraterrestrial space
|> > craft".
|>
|>    Right.  Another non-outrageous claim?
|>
|>    Say "good night, Gracie".
|>
|> Dan
|> [e-mail]


Actually, I beleive that the travelling space exhibit part may be true.
I don't have my references with me, but I read in Timothy Good's
1991 book "Alien Liaison" about a venture that sounds the same.

It was called "Cosmic Journey" and was to be a joint venture between
NASA and Ringling Brothers and Barnum and Bailey International. The touring
space exhibit was to include a *real* captured alien space craft and a
frozen alien corpse. The venture was cancelled in 1991 or delayed. Good's
references seemed reasonable, but the "military person" who was to supply
to alien artifacts could have been just yanking someone's chains.

I wish I had the book with me :^(


Leonard.


--
***********************************************************************
| Leonard E. Spani      |       //!?\\         | (disclaimer-p)       |
| [e-mail]  |       \\?!//         | t                    |
***********************************************************************
Path: ns-mx!uunet!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!bonnie.concordia.ca!garrot.DMI.USherb.CA!uxa.ecn.bgu.edu!cfkfb
From: [e-mail] (Karl Bridges)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Serious research
Summary: Isn't it time for a new group for serious UFO research
Keywords: UFO research
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Apr 92 14:28:09 GMT
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Lines: 7


 Isn't it time that there be a new group established i.e.
alt.ufo.research for those who are seriously interested in what's going
on as a scientific/sociological phenomenon.  Paranoid drug induced
fantasies are, for those interested, OK, but that's all that ever
appears here.  We need less from the lunatic fringe and more from some
serious research.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!uqcspe!cs.uq.oz.au!rhys
From: [e-mail] (Rhys Weatherley)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Serious research
Keywords: UFO research
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Apr 92 22:37:07 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Lines: 36

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Karl Bridges) writes:

> Isn't it time that there be a new group established i.e.
>alt.ufo.research for those who are seriously interested in what's going
>on as a scientific/sociological phenomenon.  Paranoid drug induced
>fantasies are, for those interested, OK, but that's all that ever
>appears here.  We need less from the lunatic fringe and more from some
>serious research.

It's a good idea.  On the surface at least.  But I fear that the lunatics
would cross-post to it anyway.  Consider: any serious UFO researcher should
be aware of the Pleiadians and friends since the names crop up so much lately
and then try to separate the wheat from the chaff.  So our friendly
neighbourhood lunatics might consider their posting their voluminous
information to an alt.ufo.research group as doing the researchers a service
by keeping the researchers "up to date". :-)  Thus alt.ufo.research becomes
a mirror of alt.alien.visitors and we are back to square one.

I'm not saying this will happen, but it needs to be kept in mind.  Moderation
may be a good idea, with only information and discussion about serious,
verifiable research activities allowed to get through the moderator.  (Yes,
approved postings can be forged, but moderation should help a bit).  Something
like comp.risks (and others) which is a mixture of informational postings and
discussion.

Now, who wants to be moderator? (not me :-)

Cheers,

Rhys.

+=====================+==================================+
||  Rhys Weatherley   |  The University of Queensland,  ||
||  [e-mail]  |  Australia.  G'day!!            ||
||       "I'm a FAQ nut - what's your problem?"         ||
+=====================+==================================+
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: re: serious research
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Apr 92 22:10:57 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Lines: 65
Nntp-Posting-Host: gold.colorado.edu

Karl Bridges' idea of a separate group for serious research or at least
consideration of UFO stuff is a great one. Although, I daresay it would
not really serve to keep the goonies off the line. Until such a group
is formed, I'd like to share some thoughts and observations arrived at
mainly from contact with abductees.

1. Someone asked for opinions on David Jacobs' book "Secret Lives." I think
it is the best thing currently in the literatue. We've all been theorizing
on the basis of little, or conflicting, or superficial, or hardware-oriented
data. This book examines the data that is immediately at hand, i.e. eye-
wittness accounts. It is the first book to really examine the similar
experiences of a large group of abductees and try to discerne patterns
inherent in the abduction experience.

2. Someone called hypnosis *bullshit*. In medicine, psychiatry and
forensics it is seen as a legitimate tool by professionals with extensive
clinical experience. It has been shown to be virtually the only means by
which to access deeply repressed memories of abductions, where the
victem was in an altered state apparently induced by the aliens. To
discount the efficacy of hypnosis out of hand seems to be merely a
quibble.

3. There are abductees with full or partial memories, as well as those
with virtually no memories of the events. There are those who have their
memories masked as *lucid dreams*, given in dream symbolism but fairly
close to the actual events. There are those who have almost total
amnesia -- they sense that *something happened* but they don't know what;
and/or they have obvious symptoms of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder but
can recollect no ordinary-life trauma to account for these severe symptoms.

4. Many persons who suspect no adbuctions whatsoever, and therefore have
no conscious memories, may under hypnosis break through the masking
amnesia and access buried memories. The fact of repressed subconscious
memories emerging under hypnosis does not invalidate either hypnosis or
the prior amnesia; it demonstrates the rigid compartmentalization of
psychic contents and the efficacy of hypnosis in accessing repressed
material.

5. Genuine abductees seem to exhibit attitudes consonant with the degree
of their recall of previously repressed material (this does not speak
to those with full spontaneous recall). Those who recall only *dreams* or
*screen memories* are usually fascinated and terribly curious about the
UFO/Visitor phenomenon. They will search the literature, show up at
conventions, and watch UFO TV programs -- sometimes with an undertone of
fear. Those who have accessed some memories, either spontaneously or
under hypnosis, may become spooked and may develop complete resistance to
further investigation at that point. Those who go on to access more
complete subliminal memories will typically be blown completely away
and their PTSD symptoms may become exacerbated.

6. Abductees who have minimul spontaneous recall may, prior to having any
hypnosis, have the feeling that contact with aliens is a highly
*spiritual* experience. They may feel the aliens are numinous. They may
maintain a complete *love'n'light* attitude toward the whole phenomenon.
When such a person has hypnosis, however, and access some of the actual
memories of being abducted against their will and perhaps used in what
appear to be medical experiments, the person will typically develop anger
and outrage toward the aliens. Based upon some evidence in Jacobs' book,
it appears the aliens may *implant* associations of numinosity and
spirituality with themselves in the abductees' minds.

I've got more but guess that's enough for one post. All serious, non-
contentious, hopefully courteous responses will be welcome. If we all
start sharing information, maybe it will simply crowd out the nuisance
posters.
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Pleiades: Message to Terra
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Apr 92 23:38:01 GMT
References: <4173696d6f76@pleiades>
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: I'm too confused to get ORGANIZED
Lines: 27

In article <4173696d6f76@pleiades>, [e-mail] (Dwayne Ashtar-Ra) writes:
|> Behold, Terrans.
|>
|> This message comes direct from a Pleiadian collective consciousness
|> which you may refer to as "The Great Dwayne".
|>   ...
|> That portion of our population which corresponds to what you would call
|> "females" have discovered that certain of your black male athletes have
|> a particular "physical prowess".  They have insisted that we make
|> contact with your puny sphere so that they may "make contact" in their
|> own special way, before all the black males succumb to the wasting
|> disease called "HELPS" which you in your foolishness have inflicted
|> upon your insignificant selves.
|>
|> They have been what you would call "holding out" to force us to comply.

I want to volunteer to help you out.  Don't let my earth-name-swedish-sounding
name fool you.  It is a little known fact that Swedish Earth males have great
physical prowess, as you call it.  And so do the the Swedish Earth females for that
matter, but that's another story.  Let's make contact!!  We can't have them
"holding out" on you, definitely.  A similar thing happened in Sweden several
Earth years ago.  It wasn't pretty.  Something about Finns, Laplanders and
reindeer.  It makes me shiver to think about it.

I stand straight at the door, and await instructions.

-The Bearded One
Path: ns-mx!uunet!van-bc!ubc-cs!mprgate.mpr.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!spani
From: [e-mail] (Leonard Spani)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Serious research
Keywords: UFO research
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Apr 92 23:26:33 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Lines: 60

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Karl Bridges) writes:
|>
|>  Isn't it time that there be a new group established i.e.
|> alt.ufo.research for those who are seriously interested in what's going
|> on as a scientific/sociological phenomenon.  Paranoid drug induced
|> fantasies are, for those interested, OK, but that's all that ever
|> appears here.  We need less from the lunatic fringe and more from some
|> serious research.

I'm not sure that creating a new group will solve the noise problem
we have here on alt.alien.visitors. People see a group with a subject
like UFOs and post nonsense to what they percieve as a non-sensical
group. A more serious name might help, but some people will always
think UFOs are National Inquirer material and nothing more.

The lunatic fringe material is helpful to me in a way because it gives
me access to some of the sociological effects that UFOs have. The UFO
cults and "space brother" foundations are an important part of the
phenomenon, but I imagine the New Age material on alt.alien.visitors
could scare off any "serious" posters.

Sci.skeptic *should* (IMO) be a place to discuss UFOs seriously, but the
group attracts a *small* number of "armchair debunkers" who are too dogmatic
to discuss the subject rationally. I don't mean to insult sci.skeptic,
just to point out that they have troubles with (dogmatic) debunkers in the
same way that alt.alien.visitors has troubles with (dogmatic) beleivers.
Sci.skeptic is also helpful to me to understand the debunkers are also an
important part of the UFO phenomenon.

That being said, I *do* see a need for another group to discuss UFO
research rationally and seriously, without assumptions and dogmatism.

Although,

  alt.ufo.research

sums up the ideals of the group nicely and cleanly, perhaps

  alt.sci.ufo.research

would make better use of the existing alt.sci hierarchy and also get
science into the name to further press the point. If you wanted a
"real" (ie. non alt ;^) newsgroup, perhaps

  sci.research.ufo

would be a good name (using the sci.research hierarchy). I can see
opposition to this group by people claiming that sci.skeptic is
sufficient, but I think that could be resonably countered. A sci.
hierarchy group *might* also collect less nonsense that an alt group.


Leonard.


--
***********************************************************************
| Leonard E. Spani      |       //!?\\         | (disclaimer-p)       |
| [e-mail]  |       \\?!//         | t                    |
***********************************************************************
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From: [e-mail] (Mark)
Newsgroups: sci.astro,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: An idea how ETs could solve the source direction prob. of SETI
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Apr 92 00:45:13 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Lines: 74
Xref: ns-mx sci.astro:16564 alt.alien.visitors:5422
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11



One of the tough problems in SETI (Search for Extra Terrestrial
Intelligence) is the problem of where to point high gain radio
antennas.  A sensitive high gain has a relatively tight receiving
beam angle within which it can detect a weak transmission, this
angle depends mainly on the wavelength and antenna diameter.

It occurred to me that a powerful ET civilization with effective
interstellar travel could make it very easy for their transmitter
to be found (I will assume that interstellar travel is possible
for them).  This will be based on several hopefully sound assumptions
made by the ETs about the civilizations out in the Galaxy:

    1).  A race intelligent enough to build a high gain receiver
         would also be interested in radio astronomy and
         knowledgeable about sources of radio emissions
         (like pulsars, supernovae, etc)

    2).  While looking at pulsars these astronomers would eventually
         notice that pulsars emit extremely regular pulses of
         emission from radio upward to gamma rays.

    3).  This race would then study these pulsars with radio
         telescopes designed to sift out faint, very fast
         radio pulses (using fourier analysis, etc)

The ETs could then set up a simple transmitter near a pulsar that would
continuously transmit prime numbers (to get attention) and then a simple
message that would say when deciphered:

    "For the real message look for a transmitter located Y light years
from this pulsar transmitting at frequency Z and at height H above the
galactic disk.The second transmitter sees an angle Q between this
pulsar and the galactic nucleus".

This is enough info to get the telescopes in the right general direction
for the second message.

The general idea is that the first transmitter takes advantage of the
fact that various races will turn sensitive radio telescopes at pulsars
on their own and then this transmitter would be detected.
This first message would be simple to decipher maybe using the famous
string of bits of size equal to a number that is only a factor of two
primes so that the message is a picture in two dimensions (see Carl
Sagen's "Cosmos" or "Contact")

The second transmitter is in a region of space distant from local
sources of noise (the pulsar for example) and it transmits the complex
messages.  Or another posibility--it tells us basic information but as
far as dangerous information it would say something like, "further information
about faster than light travel is being tranmitted by gravitational
waves at frequency F and power spectrum P and bandwidth B.

Since gravitational waves are almost impossible for a moderately advanced
race to detect they would be protected from knowledge they probably
shouldn't have.

One last point, from a standpoint of effectiveness the ETs would want
to pick an obvious pulsar with a bright supernova remnant still around
it, this would call attention to the pulsar in optical telescopes.
It should also be near the outer edge of the galactic disk so that
the first transmitter would take in the maximum number of stars for
a beam of a given width (it would point in towards the galactic center)

Interestingly enough a pulsar does fit all of these criteria:

        the Crab Pulsar in the supernova remnant NGC 1976
        also known as Messier 1 in the messier catalog.

        It rotates 33 times a second and has a brilliant optical
        nebula around it.

Mark Schlegel         [e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (John Boerp)
Newsgroups: de.soc.kultur,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Criswell (was: Review: Plan 9 From Outer Space)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 24 Apr 92 07:06:13 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (John News)
Distribution: eunet
Organization: Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems,  St. Midget Road, Germoney
Lines: 30
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5423

[e-mail] (Christian Weisgerber) writes:
>[e-mail] (Bodo Rueskamp) writes:
>>Und der Kommentar, gesprochen von einem "Hellseher" namens
>>Criswell, sucht auch seinesgleichen: "Ja, ich weiss, es klingt
>>unglaublich; aber koennen *Sie* beweisen, dass es sich *nicht*
>>so abgespielt hat?"
>Oh, der Typ war lustig.
>Ich hatte in Amiland mal ein Buch von dem Menschen in den Fingern. Was
>die Sache so richtig pikant machte: das Buch war von Ende der '60er und
>somit ein Ueberpruefen der Voraussagen fuer die naechsten 20 Jahre nicht
>weiter schwierig.

>Leider tat das der Glaubwuerdigkeit unseres Hellsehers gar nicht gut...
>Weder wurde Fidel Castro in den '70ern von einer Frau erschossen, noch
>tummeln sich heute menschenfressende Mutanten auf unserem Planeten...
>(zwei Vorhersagen an die ich mich noch erinnere).

Oh Gott, er wusste also alles! Fidel Castro wurde 1970, nachdem er von
einer Frau von der Venus erschossen wurde, von den Mutanten durch eine Clone
ersetzt.!

Fragt mal Gary Stolman, der kann es bestaetigen :)

--
John Boerp                        (boerp@[midget|mutant].saar.de)
Old Mutant Road, MHQ                        Yoyodyne Propulsion Systems
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
[ ... they told me to add this to my .signature:                             ]
[ I speak for myself, not for my employer, and i am in no way afiliated with ]
[ it's management.                                                           ]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo
From: [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Serious research
Keywords: UFO research
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Apr 92 08:22:39 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System
Lines: 25

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Karl Bridges) writes:


> Isn't it time that there be a new group established i.e.
>alt.ufo.research for those who are seriously interested in what's going
>on as a scientific/sociological phenomenon.  Paranoid drug induced
>fantasies are, for those interested, OK, but that's all that ever
>appears here.  We need less from the lunatic fringe and more from some
>serious research.

Right ! This is my view !

Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for
Decentral Energy Research
email to: [e-mail]    or
[e-mail]


--

*******************************************************************************
*  Stefan Hartmann       This is how to contact me:                           *
*  EMAIL: [e-mail]                                            *
*  Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66      FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79                   *
*******************************************************************************
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From: [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann)
Newsgroups: sci.astro,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: An idea how ETs could solve the source direction prob. of SETI
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Apr 92 08:33:32 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System
Lines: 29
Xref: ns-mx sci.astro:16579 alt.alien.visitors:5425

Do You really think, that ETs are using still radio waves to communicate
in interstellar space ??

I think an ET race, which has the technology to visit other planets light
years ahead, must have a better communication system than radio waves,
which only travel at the speed at light !

There must(!!!!!) be something much faster !!!

So it is still a pitty, when some scientists still look out with their
big radio teleskops for alien radio pulses !


Gee, guys, You are wasting Your times !!!!!


Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for
Decentral Energy Research
email to: [e-mail]    or
[e-mail]


--

*******************************************************************************
*  Stefan Hartmann       This is how to contact me:                           *
*  EMAIL: [e-mail]                                            *
*  Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66      FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79                   *
*******************************************************************************
Path: ns-mx!uunet!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo
From: [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFO meeting in Berlin
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Apr 92 08:36:45 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System
Lines: 70

Hallo Andre, hier mal der UFO-Kongress aus meiner Sicht !
(here comes my view of the Berlin UFO-congress !)


Hi to all UFO-investigators out there,

I'm just back from the UFO-conference from Berlin, Germany, where I live.

The first lecture was by Virgil Armstrong, an ex-CIA worker.

It was so disapointing:

Uncle Virgil was only telling fairy tales !!!

Gee, was this guy ridiculous !!!

He only claimed things, but did not have one proof !!

No photos, no pictures, no broken ufo-metalls, just cheap talk !!

He had 2 hours time for his lecture.

He was announced to talk about the UFO-crash in Roswell, New Mexico in 1947
and the Project Grudge etc..

But after one and a half hour he still was speaking about positive and
negative energy, until I interrupted him and asked, what about the UFO-crash !

Then he still spoke 10 minutes about bla,bla  and then he just tapped a little
bit the crash story, that was already told better over here on the net !

He only drawed a few sketches onto the blackboard of an UFO and an alien with
a big head, but a little girl would have done this better, I think.

Then there came suddenly a lady from the local room office-staff into the
lecture room and said, the time is over, we have to do soundcheck for the
next speaker.
Then uncle Virgil Amstrong went with his "fans" into a smaller room and still
there was only claims and not any more information about the UFO-crash !!

What a guy, he is real fake ! I should have choosen another lecture !
But I thought this topic about ufo-crash would be the most interesting topic
of this conference, cause the other speakers mostly lecture about
spiritual cases like channeling and psychololical research on abducted people
etc. This might be also interesting, but You can't proove or disproove
anything of it, cause You only have the claims of the persons and no pictures
of some real sightings !
Okay, one good thing was the entrance hall. There were some pretty good
new books out there with pretty good new pictures I did have yet.

So it is not to far away, that there will be some more scanned pictures
from me on the UFO-pics-FTP-site at phoenix.oulu.fi (10.231.240.17)
in /pub/incoming  or  /pub/ufo_and_space_pics
Have a look over there regularly !
By the way, what do You all think about the Ed Walters GIF-pictures over there?=?
Please let me know. Post it to alt.alien.visitores please.

Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for
Decentral Energy Research
email to: [e-mail]



--

*******************************************************************************
*  Stefan Hartmann       This is how to contact me:                           *
*  EMAIL: [e-mail]                                            *
*  Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66      FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79                   *
*******************************************************************************
Path: ns-mx!uunet!math.fu-berlin.de!news.netmbx.de!zelator!leo
From: [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFO meeting in Berlin
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Apr 92 08:52:05 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Puplic-Access-Xenix-System
Lines: 100

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Andre Eichner) writes:

>Hi Clark!
> CM>Meiner Erinnerung nach, war Armstrong Astronaut in der
> CM>fruehern Tagen des US Space Program.  Ich habe nichts von
> CM>seiner Roswell-Aktivitaeten gehoert.  Sind Sie sicher, dass
> CM>diesen Mann gutglaeubig ist?  Entw. echt Astronaut od. echt
> CM>Roswellzeuge?
>Soweit ich weis, ist er nicht der Raumfahrer. Der hat wohl einen anderen
> Vornamen.

>Der Kongress war ein Super-Erfolg. Einzige Ausnahme: Dr.Fred Bell, der hatte
> den totalen Reinfall und hat sich dann auch nicht mehr auf die
> Abschlussveranstaltung getraut.

>Es wurde eine detailierte Information ueber das Philadelphia-Experiment
> gegeben. Die von Tesla und Einstein entwickelte allgemeine Feldtheorie und wie
> die Felder eingesetzt wurden. Ich hatte auch noch Abends auf einem Essen mit
> den Referenten in einem persoenlichen Gespraech, eine Menge erfahren koennen.

>Interessant waren die Info's zu Area 51, S4, der unterirdischen Anlagen, von
> wo aus die Grey-Aliens starten und landen.

Where is the proof ? Did You see it Yourself ?


>Es wurde auch jede Menge ueber die Duale Technologie gesprochen, und das die
> USA bereits ueber zahlreiche Raumschiffe mit einem Antriebssystem das dem
> Searl-System (Bifeld-Brown-Effekt) entspricht.

>Die Funktionsweise der Element-115 Reaktoren mit dem besonderen Graviton
> wurden ausfuehrlich erlautert. Die Militaers in USA habe die Reaktoren bereits
> selbst herstellen koennen und verfuegen ueber eine grosse Menge von
> Element-115, das sie von den Grauen bekommen haben.

Did You see it ? Did You see photos or where is the proof ? Only claims ???


>Zu den Entfuehrungen durch die Grey-Aliens wurde von Edit Fiore eine Hypnose
> an einem Berliner durchgefuehrt, wobei herauskam, das dieser mehrmals von den
>Grauen entfuehrt wurde. Das Raumschiff der Grauen soll dabei am Teufelsberg,
> vor der US-Radar-Station gelandet sein.

Wie hiess der Berliner (Telefon-nummer ?) Wann ist das Ufo am Teufelsberg
gelandet ?? Man , kann man das nachpruefen oder sind das wieder alles nur
Behauptungen, die keiner Beweisen kann ???
(Where are the witnesses ??)


>Douglas Pue berichtete ueber die Verwicklungen der US-Regierung mit den Grauen
> und auch ueber die Bilderberger-Verschwoehrung. Namen wollte er nicht nennen,
>aber die kann man ja im MJ-12 Dokument nachlesen... Kohl ist ueberigens auch
> dabei!

>Jerry Wills zeigte 2 Gegenstaende, die er von seinen Ausserirdischen Freunden
>bekommen haben will (konnte ich nicht nachpruefen, ob die wirklich
> ausserirdisch waren...)


Wem hat er das gezeigt ?? Wurden davon Photos gemacht ? Was fuer Gegenstaende
waren das ??


>Brian O'Leary fuehrte und Psychokinese vor, wie bei Metallen durch geistige
> Energie die Molekularbindung voruebergehend geschwaecht wird. Er ist in
> Amerika ein Astronomie und Physikprofessor.


>Achmed Khamas stellte eine Syrische Machine vor, die mit freier Energie aus
> dem Wasser angetrieben wurde und Strom erzeugt.

Hast Du es gesehen, dass es wirklich funktioniert ohne externe Versorgung ??
Wieviel Leistung gibt sie ab ? Dauerleistung ? Wie gross is sie ??
Wurde sie schon mal von einem Institut getestet ???

>ok. Ich hoffe du kannst den Text uebersetzen.


okay, ich hoffe, Du kannst alle meine Fragen beantworten, wenn Du hier soviel
behauptest !!!

>cheers
>   Andre
>---
> * Origin: FidoNet-Berlin, the magic node  (2:2403/10)


Best regards, Stefan Hartmann,c/o Workshop for
Decentral Energy Research
email to: [e-mail]    or
[e-mail]


--

*******************************************************************************
*  Stefan Hartmann       This is how to contact me:                           *
*  EMAIL: [e-mail]                                            *
*  Phone : ++ 49 30 344 23 66      FAX : ++ 49 30 344 92 79                   *
*******************************************************************************
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!munnari.oz.au!uunet!polari!rwing!fylz!eskimo!nanook
From: [e-mail] (Robert Dinse)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Serious research
Summary: Moderated UFO Research Group
Keywords: UFO research
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Apr 92 07:15:36 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: <<< ESKIMO NORTH (206)-FOR-EVER >>>
Lines: 27

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Rhys Weatherley) writes:
>I'm not saying this will happen, but it needs to be kept in mind.  Moderation
>may be a good idea, with only information and discussion about serious,
>verifiable research activities allowed to get through the moderator.  (Yes,
>approved postings can be forged, but moderation should help a bit).  Something
>like comp.risks (and others) which is a mixture of informational postings and
>discussion.

     I'm 100% in favor of a moderated version of alt.alien.visitors, I'm not
sure that alt.ufo.research is really necessary.  How about just adding a
sub-group to this hiarchy: alt.alien.visitors.moderated for those who don't
wish to deal with the signal-to-noise ratio of the unmoderated group.

     When I first started reading this group I found it quite interesting,
but now that it's been polluted with the alt.religion.newage crap and other
non-related B.S. I've given serious consideration to unsubscribing.

     I would really welcome a group where we could talk about real sitings,
real evidence, maybe speculation on how FTL travel might be possible, or even
interplanetary travel within the normal physical laws.  I mean maybe there
are alien races with lifespans of tens of thousands of years, which would
permit both more rapid advancement as knowledge could be accumulated and
passed down more effeciently to future generations, and the long distances
would seem less distant.

     At any rate, the Invasion/Govt Plot/Paleidians Vs. Greys, is beginning
to wear on my nerves.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!mcnc!borg!excalibur!ingram
From: [e-mail] (Robert Ingram)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,talk.bizarre
Subject: Re: A question.
Summary: moon, stars
Keywords: moon
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Apr 92 16:26:46 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Followup-To: alt.vlevet.underground
Organization: Unemployment Deferrments, Inc.
Lines: 13
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5429 talk.bizarre:56545

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Gary Stimpson) writes:
>WHY in the world would anybody want to go to the moon?
>

    Fly me to the moon,
    Fly me to the stars.
    There are no stars in
    The New York skyline,
    They're all on the ground.
        --Lou Reed, _Songs For Drella_

-robert
[e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!mips!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!carasso
From: [e-mail] (RDC)
Newsgroups: talk.bizarre,soc.rights.alien,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: A question.
Keywords: moon
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Apr 92 19:25:23 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: PTA BOARD COUNCIL OF THE GREATER UNITED STATES
Lines: 7
Xref: ns-mx talk.bizarre:56552 alt.alien.visitors:5430

[e-mail] (Gary Stimpson) writes:
>
>WHY in the world would anybody want to go to the moon?

Moonbabes.

--
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!news
From: [e-mail] (Mark)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.astro
Subject: Addition to 'how ETs could solve source direction problem'
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Apr 92 22:15:38 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Lines: 92
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5431 sci.astro:16593
In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of Sat, 25 Apr 1992 00: 45:13 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

>
>
> One of the tough problems in SETI (Search for Extra Terrestrial
> Intelligence) is the problem of where to point high gain radio
> antennas.  A sensitive high gain has a relatively tight receiving
> beam angle within which it can detect a weak transmission, this
> angle depends mainly on the wavelength and antenna diameter.
>
> It occurred to me that a powerful ET civilization with effective
> interstellar travel could make it very easy for their transmitter
> to be found (I will assume that interstellar travel is possible
> for them).  This will be based on several hopefully sound assumptions
> made by the ETs about the civilizations out in the Galaxy:
>
>     1).  A race intelligent enough to build a high gain receiver
>          would also be interested in radio astronomy and
>          knowledgeable about sources of radio emissions
>          (like pulsars, supernovae, etc)
>
>     2).  While looking at pulsars these astronomers would eventually
>          notice that pulsars emit extremely regular pulses of
>          emission from radio upward to gamma rays.
>
>     3).  This race would then study these pulsars with radio
>          telescopes designed to sift out faint, very fast
>          radio pulses (using fourier analysis, etc)
>
> The ETs could then set up a simple transmitter near a pulsar that would
> continuously transmit prime numbers (to get attention) and then a simple
> message that would say when deciphered:
>
>     "For the real message look for a transmitter located Y light years
> from this pulsar transmitting at frequency Z and at height H above the
> galactic disk.The second transmitter sees an angle Q between this
> pulsar and the galactic nucleus".

The distance of the 2nd transmitter from the pulsar must be described
without units like light years since this unit is peculiar to the earth
(the ETs have a different year and so a different light year).

One way this could be done would be for them transmit the pulsar period
as seen from the 2nd transmitter (this could be described as a multiple
of the carrier frequency).  Since the receiving civilization
can easily measure the slow down rate of the pulsar's spin (the period
derivative) this can give them the distance between the 2nd transmitter
and the pulsar without special units (if they know the distance to the
pulsar from their planet too).


> This is enough info to get the telescopes in the right general direction
> for the second message.
>
> The general idea is that the first transmitter takes advantage of the
> fact that various races will turn sensitive radio telescopes at pulsars
> on their own and then this transmitter would be detected.
> This first message would be simple to decipher maybe using the famous
> string of bits of size equal to a number that is only a factor of two
> primes so that the message is a picture in two dimensions (see Carl
> Sagen's "Cosmos" or "Contact")
>
> The second transmitter is in a region of space distant from local
> sources of noise (the pulsar for example) and it transmits the complex
> messages.  Or another posibility--it tells us basic information but as
> far as dangerous information it would say something like, "further information
> about faster than light travel is being tranmitted by gravitational
> waves at frequency F and power spectrum P and bandwidth B.
>
> Since gravitational waves are almost impossible for a moderately advanced
> race to detect they would be protected from knowledge they probably
> shouldn't have.
>
> One last point, from a standpoint of effectiveness the ETs would want
> to pick an obvious pulsar with a bright supernova remnant still around
> it, this would call attention to the pulsar in optical telescopes.
> It should also be near the outer edge of the galactic disk so that
> the first transmitter would take in the maximum number of stars for
> a beam of a given width (it would point in towards the galactic center)
>
> Interestingly enough a pulsar does fit all of these criteria:
>
>         the Crab Pulsar in the supernova remnant NGC 1976
>         also known as Messier 1 in the messier catalog.
>
>         It rotates 33 times a second and has a brilliant optical
>         nebula around it.
>
> Mark Schlegel         [e-mail]
>

Mark Schlegel        [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!olivea!decwrl!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!umrutko0
From: [e-mail] (Chris Rutkowski)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Serious research
Keywords: UFO research
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 25 Apr 92 23:07:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Lines: 41

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Rhys Weatherley) writes:

>In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Karl Bridges) writes:

>> Isn't it time that there be a new group established i.e.
>>alt.ufo.research for those who are seriously interested in what's going
>>on as a scientific/sociological phenomenon.  Paranoid drug induced
>>fantasies are, for those interested, OK, but that's all that ever
>>appears here.  We need less from the lunatic fringe and more from some
>>serious research.

I agree, but the follow-up posts raise the necessary cautions, and the
following:

>It's a good idea.  On the surface at least.  But I fear that the lunatics
>would cross-post to it anyway.  Consider: any serious UFO researcher should
>be aware of the Pleiadians and friends since the names crop up so much lately
>and then try to separate the wheat from the chaff.  So our friendly
>neighbourhood lunatics might consider their posting their voluminous
>information to an alt.ufo.research group as doing the researchers a service
>by keeping the researchers "up to date". :-)  Thus alt.ufo.research becomes
>a mirror of alt.alien.visitors and we are back to square one.

alt.alien after a few days!  I thought the FIDONET was bad!  I was
under the impression that INTERNET had intellectual discussions only!
k
>I'm not saying this will happen, but it needs to be kept in mind.  Moderation
>may be a good idea, with only information and discussion about serious,
>verifiable research activities allowed to get through the moderator.  (Yes,
>approved postings can be forged, but moderation should help a bit).  Something
>like comp.risks (and others) which is a mixture of informational postings and
>discussion.

>Now, who wants to be moderator? (not me :-)

I wouldn't mind doing it, but I'm not sure how much time it would take!

--
Chris Rutkowski - [e-mail]
Royal Astronomical Society of Canada
University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada
Path: ns-mx!uunet!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!linac!mp.cs.niu.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!news.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!jbh55289
From: [e-mail] (Josh 'K' Hopkins)
Newsgroups: sci.astro,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: An idea how ETs could solve the source direction prob. of SETI
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Apr 92 01:36:51 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Net Noise owner)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Lines: 42
Xref: ns-mx sci.astro:16598 alt.alien.visitors:5433

[e-mail] (Mark) writes:




>It occurred to me that a powerful ET civilization with effective
>interstellar travel could make it very easy for their transmitter
>to be found (I will assume that interstellar travel is possible

>The ETs could then set up a simple transmitter near a pulsar that would
>continuously transmit prime numbers (to get attention) and then a simple
>message that would say when deciphered:

>    "For the real message look for a transmitter located Y light years
>from this pulsar transmitting at frequency Z and at height H above the
>galactic disk.The second transmitter sees an angle Q between this
>pulsar and the galactic nucleus".

>This is enough info to get the telescopes in the right general direction
>for the second message.

>The general idea is that the first transmitter takes advantage of the
>fact that various races will turn sensitive radio telescopes at pulsars
>on their own and then this transmitter would be detected.
>This first message would be simple to decipher maybe using the famous
>string of bits of size equal to a number that is only a factor of two
>primes so that the message is a picture in two dimensions (see Carl
>Sagen's "Cosmos" or "Contact")

    One project I've always wanted to do with some school kids is give them
the Arecibo SETI message and see if they can figure it out.  I don't think
they could get anything out of the sequence of bits, and there are some things
that they still wouldn't be able to get out of the final picture.
    How would you format your 'simple' message so that an utterly alien
race could figure it out?  It seems to me that you'll have to define your
units of distance, counting system and coordinate system.  To do this, or even
just draw a picture accurate enough to convey the required precision will
require a lot of bits.  For that matter, why don't you just put the main
transmitter in the same location?  Then you don't have to worry about your
contacts finding both of them, and you won't be revealing your location.

            Josh Hopkins
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!uunet!hela.iti.org!widener!beyonet!beyo
From: [e-mail] (Steve Urich)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFO meeting in Berlin
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Apr 92 05:33:36 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Beyonet Network
Lines: 41

[e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann) writes:

>I'm just back from the UFO-conference from Berlin, Germany, where I live.

    I used to live in Berlin, 7 Flanagan Strasse beim Grunewald forest
    park in the American Apartments for 3+ years when I was very young.
    That place was big full of trails and old Fort Towers etc etc. There
    might even have been a few ufo landings in there I bet :-).

>It was so disapointing:

    Not to say I told you so, but I told you so. I bet that dude was
    drunk, did you smell any whiskey when he was foaming at the mouth
    and putting everybody to sleep trying to sell his snake oil?

>Uncle Virgil was only telling fairy tales !!!

    You should have given him the 'horsebutt' trophy. Thats a trophy
    with a half a horse showing the 'butt'. :-)

[..]

    There are many 'newage/ufo' snake oil salesmen with the gift
    of gab that are usually alcoholics and are trying to sell info
    to people that are truly interested in genuine info. Its too
    bad there are so many that are doing this.

    So whats going on with the 'aurora' ships the USA has? Did anyone
    else see the newscast about the 'black technology'?

    Steve

--
 ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############
 ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA  USA    |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########
 ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############
 ####       #### snark!beyonet!beyo   |when I hit the Screen"  ####       ####
 ##    |_|    ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project  ##    |_|    ##
 ##           ##-----------------------------------------------##           ##
 ####       ####  Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#SEPA.PA.USA.NA  ####       ####
_###############_______________________________________________###############_
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!uunet!hela.iti.org!widener!beyonet!beyo
From: [e-mail] (Steve Urich)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFO meeting in Berlin
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Apr 92 05:50:51 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Beyonet Network
Lines: 48

[e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann) writes:
>In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Andre Eichner) writes:
[...]
>>Interessant waren die Info's zu Area 51, S4, der unterirdischen Anlagen, von
>> wo aus die Grey-Aliens starten und landen.
>
>Where is the proof ? Did You see it Yourself ?

    I doubt that he seen them himself :-) Good try though Stefan...

[...]
>> wurden ausfuehrlich erlautert. Die Militaers in USA habe die Reaktoren bereits
>> selbst herstellen koennen und verfuegen ueber eine grosse Menge von
>> Element-115, das sie von den Grauen bekommen haben.

>Did You see it ? Did You see photos or where is the proof ? Only claims ???

    What I would like to know is what we gave the Grays to trade for
    recieving Element-115? Maybe loads of Strawberry Ice Cream :-).

>>Grauen entfuehrt wurde. Das Raumschiff der Grauen soll dabei am Teufelsberg,
>> vor der US-Radar-Station gelandet sein.
>
>Wie hiess der Berliner (Telefon-nummer ?) Wann ist das Ufo am Teufelsberg
>gelandet ?? Man , kann man das nachpruefen oder sind das wieder alles nur
>Behauptungen, die keiner Beweisen kann ???
>(Where are the witnesses ??)

    Ok lets be serious now!!! What is it with the 'Teufelsberg' anyway?!?!
    First it was the witches meeting place where all the witches go meet
    at some apointed full-moon time all using 'astral projections' of
    themselves because the 'Teufelsberg' was in Old-East Berlin and it
    was the meeting place since the beginning of whatever. Now its become
    an spaceport for Aliens!?!?!?! Whats going on here?!?!? There must
    be a big deal about this 'Teufelsberg'? The german witches say that
    this place is where the other dimensions cross and you can visit
    the dead in astral bodies. What do the aliens want there :-)


--
 ############### Stephen Urich WB3FTP |"Starlightbeams project ###############
 ##|_|########## Bensalem, PA  USA    |me in Red Blue and Green##|_|##########
 ###############----------------------|Velvetdreams protect me ###############
 ####       #### snark!beyonet!beyo   |when I hit the Screen"  ####       ####
 ##    |_|    ## widener!beyonet!beyo |--Alan Parsons Project  ##    |_|    ##
 ##           ##-----------------------------------------------##           ##
 ####       ####  Packet Radio: WB3FTP@WA3NWL.#SEPA.PA.USA.NA  ####       ####
_###############_______________________________________________###############_
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!news.bbn.com!noc.near.net!mars.caps.maine.edu!maine.maine.edu!io10081
From: [e-mail] (The Xanadian)
Newsgroups: sci.astro,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: An idea how ETs could solve the source direction prob. of SETI
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Apr 92 03:34:29 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
 <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Maine System
Lines: 24
Xref: ns-mx sci.astro:16601 alt.alien.visitors:5436


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Stefan
Hartmann) says:
>
>I think an ET race, which has the technology to visit other planets light
>years ahead, must have a better communication system than radio waves,
>which only travel at the speed at light !

Okay, if the radio waves are travelling at the speed of light, which they
are, and they live <hypothetically> 200 light years away, don't you think
that it may be possible that this alien race *could* have been using radio
waves 200 years ago?  Thus, we could *still* receive radio transmissions
from them, but their technology would already be advanced beyond using
radio technology.  Of course, if you're talking about aliens putting out
these transmitters *now*, then there that may be highly unlikely.

Unless:  If these aliens are smart enough to build all this sophisticated
junk, don't you think that they may be smart enough to realize that we still
can only use EMR? <electromagnetic radiation>

Of course, that leaves the question of whether or not they would even want
to bother with a race with inferior technology... *grin*

Hope I made myself clear.  :)
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!gatech!purdue!mentor.cc.purdue.edu!pop.stat.purdue.edu!hrubin
From: [e-mail] (Herman Rubin)
Newsgroups: sci.astro,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: An idea how ETs could solve the source direction prob. of SETI
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Apr 92 13:19:37 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Followup-To: sci.astro
Organization: Purdue University Statistics Department
Lines: 24
Xref: ns-mx sci.astro:16610 alt.alien.visitors:5437

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann) writes:

            ...................

>I think an ET race, which has the technology to visit other planets light
>years ahead, must have a better communication system than radio waves,
>which only travel at the speed at light !

>There must(!!!!!) be something much faster !!!

Why must there?  Possibly these ETs have lifetimes in the thousands of years,
so that a 20-year trip between planets is like a 1-year trip to us, or even
less.  Not a Sunday jaunt, but still not prohibitive.

If these long lifetimes do not happen, they might use suspended animation
in their explorations.  This subject has been treated fairly well in
science fiction.

"If wishes were horses, then beggars would ride."
--
Herman Rubin, Dept. of Statistics, Purdue Univ., West Lafayette IN47907-1399
Phone: [phone]
[e-mail] (Internet, bitnet)
{purdue,pur-ee}!pop.stat!hrubin(UUCP)
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.edu!usenet.coe.montana.edu!news.u.washington.edu!raven.alaska.edu!acad2.alaska.edu!asljl
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: ALL CONERNED ABOUT FEDERATION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Apr 92 19:18:51 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Alaska
Lines: 19
Xref: ns-mx sci.space:29383 alt.alien.visitors:5438
Nntp-Posting-Host: acad2.alaska.edu

ATTENTION !!!! ALL THOSE INTERESTED IN THE FEDERATION !!!!!!!!!

Due to system restrictions imposed by the University of Alaska
I can no longer, Post, or send to any personal mail accounts,
Information concerning the Federation. However, if you would like more
information, you can send to the following mail address or send your U.S
Po.box address to this electronic mail account. Please do it as soon as
possible. I have only four weeks left on this account.

Lady Rhavyn
Po.box 231772
Anchorage, Alaska
          99523-1772

TO OUR MAN IN FLORIDA!!!! CONTACT US AS SOON AS POSSIBLE. WE HAVE MORE INFO
TO SEND YOU.

Signed
Lady Rhavyn
Path: ns-mx!uunet!van-bc!ubc-cs!unixg.ubc.ca!kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!bison!draco!sys6626!gstimp
From: [e-mail] (Gary Stimpson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: A new TV show?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Apr 92 23:42:40 GMT
Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB
Lines: 10

Sitting infront of the TV at around 2am last night, I came across the end
of a commerical for "INTRUDERS"  This man said something like, "After
see'ing this, you WILL believe!"  Hmm.. wonder what it is?  Anybody know?
It was on WJBK CBS.  Thought it might be some new UFO show..

Gary

;--- (Gary Stimpson) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
;E-mail: [e-mail]
;system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!ames!olivea!isc-br!tau-ceti!visual!mstaben
From: [e-mail] (Matt Staben)
Newsgroups: talk.bizarre,soc.rights.alien,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: A question.
Keywords: moon
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Apr 92 04:04:28 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Visual Market Public Access Site - Spokane, WA
Lines: 12
Xref: ns-mx talk.bizarre:56677 alt.alien.visitors:5440

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (RDC) writes:
>[e-mail] (Gary Stimpson) writes:
>>
>>WHY in the world would anybody want to go to the moon?
>
>Moonbabes.
>
>--

Moonbabes also benefit from the lower gravitational constant.

--
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!decwrl!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!kcbbs!kc
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sutton)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Alien Media Coverage
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 26 Apr 92 09:31:42 GMT
Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand
Lines: 33

Isn't it well overdue to inquire about the media coverage of the ETOI's
presence known to the masses?.
Oh how many times have I heard it said that the detection & or contact
with ETOI would be the/one of the greatest events in human history (not
that many actually) & wondered what the coverage of it would be like.
Would thier be an almighty rush to be 1st to the story or a well controlled
media pool affair?,a floundering around in the dark(literally & otherwise)
continous coverage on the 24Hrs news stations,special newspaper editions
etc while new developments were occuring or

            -NAFF ALL OF DETAIL-

Anyone out there got any ideas,indications,plans,inside info etc on
how it would go down if the ETOI's come down for different scenerios
in the media?.
       & decrease the chances they will cock it up


Would be damn ironic if the ETOI's decided after much deliberation to
Would be damn ironic if the ETOI's decided after much deliberation to
make thier presence known to the many & then found not excatly a rush
to get the 1st 1-to-1.          & so depart forthwith.
                 Wouldn't be surprised......

***********************
ARE ETOI SPACESHIPS SHY
OR JUST WAITING TO SEAL
THE ROYALTY DEAL?.
***********************

    OH Yes   ETOI=ExtraTerrestrial Orginating Intelligence(cause thier's
bugger all down here on Earth).
bugger all down here on Earth).
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!Don_-_Showen
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Serious research
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Apr 92 05:52:34 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
  <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 9

Oh boy serious research.  You mean the kind allegedly done in colleges?
Like the professor with tenure who made the mistake of researching a device
that would actually heal.  He got fired because the AMA threatened to pull
their research funding.
Colleges are to get people who came from the stars to believe they came from
apes.
Colleges produce an individual with a lower mentality than a reborn Christian.
Yea, lets have some serious research.
Don Showen
Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!mips!munnari.oz.au!metro!usage!csdvax.csd.unsw.edu.au!p2029901
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Help they are after me
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Apr 92 03:33:12 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of New South Wales
Lines: 51


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Gary Stollman) writes:
>
> In article <116165164143141163145@bluenote>, [e-mail] (Gary Stollman) writes...
>>Help I don;t know wher eto go
>>
>>I have just signed on after many months and these are all these
>>notes supposedly written by me. some of them obvious forgerys
>>
>>None of them were written by me. I have reason to believe they were written by my mom who is out to get me (my fake mom not my real one)Please do not believe any notes written
>>by me.
>>
>>Gotta get out of here before they find out I am signed on.
>>
>>Gary
>
>         The above note is  obviously  a  fake.    The  real  Gary is more
>         articulate than this.   Besides  the  posting  looks like it came
>         from a FIDO net source.    Gary  does  not  post  from a FIDO net
>         source.
>
>         Gary, Gary, Gary....
>
>         OK I am going to  come  clean.   This is really Gary Stollman.  I
>         work for the Shop, you know  "THE SHOP." I volunteered to have my
>         self cloned as an experiment in creating  legions  of  clones  as
>         solders to help the Reticulans in a battle  against  a Cylon like
>         race  from  Altair.    You  escaped  and  instead of  having  you
>         terminated we decided to watch you.  You went insane  and we have
>         decided  the experiment was a complete failure.  You are a  fluke
>         of the Universe.
>
>
>         Now Gary if you believe this I have some land in Florida for you.
>
>
>         Sorry Gary I have been having  fun  at  your  expense.    I still
>         believe that you are unstable but that  just  makes your postings
>         interesting and entertaining.
>
>
>         Steve Food_for_the_Greys

          Behold - the hamburgler!

      Tell us, oh Hamburgler; have you seen the flying saucers?


     Dealwis - foot for tort.


Path: ns-mx!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!Malfera
From: [e-mail] (Dan M Healy)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: A new TV show?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Apr 92 07:31:26 GMT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 7

Sightings... is about all different things considered 'paranormal'. I
just caught an episode on ESP and the next one is on Psychic healing...
Dunno if they did a UFO show yet.



                    [e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Peter Loibl)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: UFO meeting in Berlin
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Apr 92 07:46:31 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Lines: 7

Hi!

Could you post the article of the meeting on the net - for all those
interested guys, who didn't have the possibility of go to Berlin

Peter
[e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!ames!news.hawaii.edu!lumchan!patten
From: [e-mail] (Brian)
Newsgroups: talk.bizarre,soc.rights.alien,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: A question.
Keywords: moon
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Apr 92 08:16:44 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (News Service)
Organization: Institute for Astronomy, Univ. of Hawaii
Lines: 23
Xref: ns-mx talk.bizarre:56679 alt.alien.visitors:5446
Nntp-Posting-Host: lumchan.ifa.hawaii.edu

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Matt Staben) writes:
|> In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (RDC) writes:
|> >[e-mail] (Gary Stimpson) writes:
|> >>
|> >>WHY in the world would anybody want to go to the moon?
|> >
|> >Moonbabes.
|> >
|> >--
|>
|> Moonbabes also benefit from the lower gravitational constant.
                                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

  I myself would like to try the Moonbabes in our home universe before
jumping, sliding, tunneling, or whatever into another universe.

  Hmmmmm, on second thought, maybe I should try to be a little more
adventurous...


---

Brian
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!mrccrc!mrccrc!sgamble
From: [e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Serious research
Keywords: UFO research
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Apr 92 10:41:03 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293)
Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK
Lines: 27
Nntp-Posting-Host: germanium

I can see that there is a case for having a group for serious UFO research.
The problem I can see is that as anybody can post we will still get it
filled up by idiots who think they are aliens who came here on flying
hot dogs. Another problem would be cross posting. At the moment people
seem to cross post the same article to alt.alien.visitors, sci.skeptic,
alt.paranormal and in some cases sci.space. It is bad enough reading the
same article four times already.

The main problem with alt.alien.visitors is the name. Alien visitors is
only one of many SUGGESTED explanations for UFO phenomena. Alien visitors
is just a red rag to the idiot brigade. Perhaps we should be looking to
a name change to alt.ufo, then form as necessary special interest groups
like alt.ufo.atmospheric, alt.ufo.eth, maybe even alt.ufo.meetings. (And
when I say .meetings I mean lectures and conferences, not contactee/
abductee type reports.)

Basically, I support the idea that we do something, either new group or
change of name

Steve.


--
(Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!)
Steve Gamble, Computing Services,
Clinical Research Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK.
Phone: [phone]  JANET: [e-mail] INTERNET: [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!van-bc!ubc-cs!unixg.ubc.ca!kakwa.ucs.ualberta.ca!access.usask.ca!ccu.umanitoba.ca!umrutko0
From: [e-mail] (Chris Rutkowski)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Crop circles
Summary: 1992 Formations Found?
Keywords: Crop Circles North America
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Apr 92 14:48:20 GMT
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Lines: 19

FROM:  NAICCR (North American Institute for Crop Circle Research)

An American representative of the British CCCS has informed NAICCR that
a new, 1992, crop circle formation has already been found.  The
location is Jonesboro, Georgia (?).  It was found on or about April 20,
1992.  Does anyone on the NET have any further infomation?  NAICCR is
interested in learning details of any and all circles and traces found
in North America.

In addition, recent UFO activity in New Hampshire is alleged to have
included crop circles or traces.  Can anyone post details here or
e-mail directly to NAICCR at the .sig below?  Full credit will be given
in NAIICR Reports.


--
Chris Rutkowski - [e-mail]
Royal Astronomical Society of Canada
University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada
Path: ns-mx!uunet!think.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!bmartino
From: [e-mail] (Bob Martino)
Newsgroups: sci.astro,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: An idea how ETs could solve the source direction prob. of SETI
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Apr 92 16:33:21 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]-berli
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: The Ohio State University
Lines: 29
Xref: ns-mx sci.astro:16652 alt.alien.visitors:5449
Nntp-Posting-Host: bottom.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu

>Do You really think, that ETs are using still radio waves to communicate
>in interstellar space ??
>
>I think an ET race, which has the technology to visit other planets light
>years ahead, must have a better communication system than radio waves,
>which only travel at the speed at light !
>
>There must(!!!!!) be something much faster !!!
>
>So it is still a pitty, when some scientists still look out with their
>big radio teleskops for alien radio pulses !
>
>
>Gee, guys, You are wasting Your times !!!!!
>
>
>Best regards, Stefan Hartmann

     Gee Stephen, you are making an assumption here that Dr. Einstein
wouldn't like at all.  Can you spot what it is?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
!       That Bob Martino Guy          !  "I think, therefore I am."          !
! [e-mail]  !                  -Descartes          !
!                                     !  "I am that I am."                   !
!  God INVENTED science.  So there.   !                  -God                !
!      ^^^^^^^^                       !  "I am a jelly dougnut."             !
!                                     !                  -J.F. Kennedy       !
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!csn!boulder!ucsu!cubldr.colorado.edu!crago_l
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: RE: new TV show
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Apr 92 16:17:56 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Lines: 7
Nntp-Posting-Host: gold.colorado.edu

According to *UFO Magazine* in a section called Media Watch, *Intruders* will
be a CBS miniseries which (they say) "we've been informed does NOT really
have a character based on Budd Hopkins. Just the title and a *certain element*
were purchased from Hopkins. * The male lead, played by Richard Crenna, is
really
a conglomerate of UFO personalities, says someone in the know. At any rate,
it may air around 14-18 May, I don't have the exact dates.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!comp.vuw.ac.nz!waikato.ac.nz!aukuni.ac.nz!kcbbs!kc
From: [e-mail] (Robert Sutton)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: PENTAGON ADMITS IT HAS ALIEN VESSELS
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Apr 92 09:49:48 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Kappa Crucis Unix BBS, Auckland, New Zealand
Lines: 28

[e-mail] (Leonard Spani)     types-

>I believe there maybe something in this.The tour at least

Well they had a very interesting good ole yaker about this on BBWS Megamix
last year.Tim Good himself & Beeb science correspondent David Whitehouse
were arguing it out on matters UFO including this tour(de force).
Seems Tim Good said he had it from unidentified sources that a STS model
on wheels would be in an NASA/Private Industry exhibition around the
world marking sesquicentenary of Chris Columbus & Co.Also included would
be either an alien(of the extraterrestrial orginating type) corpse or
an ETO craft or at least model of.Interestingly soon after I heard on
VOA that after a longer than planned exhibit at Spaceport USA at KSC
as the most popular exhibit thier the STS model would be making a tour
worldwide(think it may have been in about 6 months).Both Megamix & the
VOA item said the STS model is called -Ambassador-

No mention on the VOA item of the alien aspects(is it part of a coverup?)
No mention on the VOA item of the alien aspects(is it part of a coverup?)

Well maybe if it goes ahead someday the media will get thier wires crossed
again & spaek of The Alien Ambassador.

****************************
ARE ETOI SPACESHIPS SHY
OR ARE THEY JUST WAITING
TO SEAL THE ROYALTY DEAL?.
****************************
Path: ns-mx!uunet!morrow.stanford.edu!decwrl!pa.dec.com!shodha.enet.dec.com!timpson
From: [e-mail] (Steve Timpson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Help they are after me
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Apr 92 13:48:07 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Lines: 17


In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] writes...
]>
]>         Steve Food_for_the_Greys
>
>          Behold - the hamburgler!
>
>      Tell us, oh Hamburgler; have you seen the flying saucers?
>
>
>     Dealwis - foot for tort.


        Huh!?  I believe this is a REtort but I am not real sure.


        Steve Food_for_the_Greys
Path: ns-mx!uunet!europa.asd.contel.com!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!news.unomaha.edu!news
From: [e-mail] (Travis R. Stone)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Hypnosis in Abduction Studies
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Apr 92 21:23:05 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Lines: 31
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11

In Article #3771, [e-mail]---whomever you are,
sir or madame---made a point about the validity of hypnosis as a
tool for researching possible abduction cases.  The mention of
hypnosis puts me in mind of the most atrocious book on hypnotically-
uncovered abduction experiences I think I've ever read---a piece of
tripe by some person called Edith Fiore, Ph.D, the title of which
escapes me at the moment ("Encounters", maybe?) and which serves as a
masterful example of how to ask blatantly leading questions.  Things
like "do you remember being taken up by the aliens into their space-
ship?" and "do you think the aliens were trying to cure your
hemmorhoids?" and "try to recall the first moment when the ET's
kidnapped you."

Talk about "poisoning the well."

As far as hypnosis itself goes, can one really lend much weight to
what it retrieves in regard to these supposed "abductions" (remember,
folks---nothing has been definitely proven one way OR the other as
to the existence of EBE's) when it has been demonstrated to be of
dubious reliability under far less psychologically stressful
conditions (recalling license plate numbers, the color of a bank
robber's blazer, etc.)?  What I mean to say is, if it's spotty for
something as simple as helping someone to recall a plate number,
how good is it going to be in helping someone recall his kidnap and
medical examination by a mob of pug-ugly little grey men from Cygnus
Minor?......

T.R. Stone
University of Nebraska-Omaha
Home of the Toughest Organic Chemistry Instructors in the Galaxy
(whether you hypnotize them or not.)
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space
Subject: FLORIDA GROUP CONTACT FEDERATION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Apr 92 16:51:44 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Alaska
Lines: 33
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5454 sci.space:29408
Nntp-Posting-Host: acad2.alaska.edu

Path: acad2.alaska.edu!asljl
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space
Subject: FLORIDA GROUP CONTACT THE FEDERATION
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Apr 92 12:34:37 AST
Organization: University of Alaska

ATTENTION FLORIDA GROUP OF THE UNIVERISTY OF FLORIDA!!!!!
THIS IS THE FEDERATION CALLING !!!!! PLEASE RESPOND.

This Account will be expire in four weeks. We are trying to reach a
Andy C. there. He was chosen to speak for a group of about 200. I recieved
a message from him about 2 weeks ago and have heard nothing since. Please
Answer. We would like to start a Us mail correspondence. Here is our
address.

Lady Rhavyn
po.box.231772
anchorage, alaska,
          99523-1772

If you are going to correspond with us mail please let us know. We know you
wished names unused, but we have not headr from you . Vital information
stands by to be sent for the strat of the project we discussed. Please
Respond as soon as possible. We wish to start. And we wish to give you
as much as we have available. We can no longer post information due to
this universities restrictions.  Please contact us so  we can get going.

urgently signed
Lady Rhavyn.
Keep The faith, And Peace be with you all.

Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!ucbvax!STRATUS.SWDC.STRATUS.COM!lpb
From: [e-mail] (Len Bucuvalas)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Linda Moulton Howe: Cattle Mutilations and Human Abductions
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Apr 92 23:05:45 GMT
Sender: [e-mail]
Lines: 193




*******

SUMMARY OF LECTURE BY
Linda Moulton Howe
San Francisco Whole Life Expo
10-Noon, April 25, 1992

-------

(Linda has been a TV producer and writer for more than 20 years and has
extensively researched the so-called cattle mutilations and other
related phenomena for quite some time.  She has a book out entitled 'An
Alien Harvest' and several videos including 'A Strange Harvest,' 'Earth
Mysteries,' and 'Cropcircle Communique.'  She was in a very good mood
during her lecture.  She can be reached via P.O. Box 538 Huntingdon
Valley, PA 19006-0538, [phone], FAX [phone].  Do not
bother her unless it is very important.)

-------

We are living in lies.

Of those persons recalling UFO encounters or related visitations, about
25 percent do not need any hypnosis or regression for memory recall.

The UFO/alien phenomena is very real and very confusing.  The best way
to think about it is to classify these craft and entities as being
physical, or interdimensional, or a combination of both, or some other
type of form that we do not understand.

There exist very many physical characteristic types of aliens.

There may be over 100 different physical characteristic different types
of aliens out there.  It has been said that 54 of these different types
belong to the Federation that is caring for Earth.  There are also 3
not-so-good types that are interacting with Earth and performing their
various experiments and studies.  These 3 groups include the small
greys, as depicted in the movie Communion (available at tape rental
stores).  Many descriptions have been obtained from witnesses.  Here is
listing of the various types from how they looked to the witnesses:

1.  Small Grey, short, about 4 feet tall.  Large almond shaped black
eyes and grey body with four long fingers.  Seem to be the workers and
some sort of biological robots.  Insect like with Chlorophyll in their
blood.  Black eye coverings have been seen to be removable like single
goggles lens to reveal a vertical slit cat-like or snake-like eye
design.  Garment patches seem to be a triangle with a crescent moon or
circle with a crescent moon and flame design.

2.  Larger Brown/Grey, taller, about 5 feet tall.  Tan skinned, color of
cardboard.  Seem to be the doctors.  They carry a small black box
usually on a belt.  the box controls the subjects, knock-out or
paralysis, and the environment.

3.  Larger Grey, about 5 feet tall.  Another scientist type.  Has a
right breast patch with an equilateral triangle (dark blue) inscribed
within a (light blue) circle.

4.  Human-type, about 6-7 feet, blond and blue eyes.  Cat-like eyes
(although some claim to have seen ones just like us).  No sclera (white
part of eyes), solid blue.  Some have seen yellow eyes with vertical
black slits.  Breast patch seen is circular with two triangles
intersecting (like David's 6-pointed star pulled apart upward half way),
or a V intersecting an upside-down V in a circle.

5.  Human-type with a large beaked-nose and vertical slits.  These are
the types that are reported to have visited with Eisenhower at Holoman
AFB in 1964 during his 'dentist visit' as announced to the press (no
dentist in the area ever saw him).  3-5 cameras are reported to have
filmed the event.  Military security.  Also, there are references to a
skull cap worn by some, like a tight-fitting swim cap with a portion
that curls down around the ear like 3/4 circular sideburns;  cap is blue
and trimmed on the edge with gold.  William Cooper has said he has seen
one of these.

6.  Cross between a human and a reptilian monster, with yellow eyes on
white sclera with black vertical slits.  Seems to always be in a
leadership role and controls the situations.

7.  Various monster-like beings.  One is very hairy, has very round
eyes, and feet looking like the trunk of a tree.  Others are large and
small ape-like creatures.  All are up to 6-7 feet tall.  (Some one in
the audience recognized a drawing as the "Moth Man."

8.  Men in Black Suits, with very-slanted eyes.  Not normal humans.

9.  Insect-like beings.  Intelligent.  Various forms.

10.  Praying Mantis Type.  Large.  6-7 feet tall. Large yellow head with
glowing halo.  Seems to be master-in-charge.  Perceptions of witnesses
is that he/she is very old, very ancient, and very sad.

Visitations of various beings have come from out of physical craft,
inside closed buildings, and from out-of-the-air.  One case was inside
an upstairs New York City apartment.  The emergence of the greys and
others can appear like a flower or tear is opening up from somewhere
else into our reality in a portal-type fashion.  Also many reports of
lots of small greys materializing as they are slowly floating down to
the ground.

Also, a story of a man who when 7 year old gave his consent for his body
to be used.  Later, in mid-30s, he is repeatedly visited and has sex
with a large human/grey-type cross female.  He is eventually shown a
room with lots (maybe hundreds) of drawer-type glass paneled chambers,
each with a human/grey or grey/human type baby.  He is told they are all
his.  His physically touching them is very important to the health of
the babies and he voluntarily does so.

-------

The animal mutilations are world-wide.

They have been reported for over twenty-five years, and for all of the
cases that Linda knows of there has been only one cause of death on the
certificates:  Cause:  Unknown.

In all of the strange cases:  Complete lack of blood, lack of any
moisture around the affected areas.  (Maybe no blood in the animal, but
I did not hear her say that.)  Cows have partial jaws, genitals, and
rectum areas removed.  Jaws have always the same teeth and molars
removed.  The jaw bone areas are completely clean down to the bone.
Cuts are cleaner and better than any laser she knows of.  Analysis shows
evidence of very high temperature clotting of blood above 300 Deg.. F
(lakes of dark patches in blood under microscope).  Some have had their
tail removed.  Some have had individual teats (nipples) removed with
extreme scientific precision.  All researchers agree that most of the
cuts look like 'cookie-cutter' type cuts:  precise, straight, clean.

She summarized the story of Bob Lazar.  He has his own videotape out
now.  See Lazar BBS notices for details on him and the alien disks in
Area 51, site S-4 in Nevada that are being researched or back-engineered
by the US 'government.'  (Good luck.  I think this is like giving a PT
boat to Columbus and his Queen.)

There was reference to a person who asked her if she knew of the 'Earth
Secret War.'  Is there a war going on around or about Earth?  Does it
involve the cloning of human beings?  She doesn't know.  Do you?

One fact seem clear to Linda:  Earth seems to be a focal point for life
forms in the Universe.

She feels the alien phenomena is very confusing and complex, and she is
planning to publish a book with the pictures of the alien types she
showed.  She feels it is important that certain people be allowed to
research and understand what is happening.

She also told me directly that she feels most people do not really want
to know what is really happening.  She feels that if a person was to
find out, that they would never be the same and could (maybe) not live
their life the same again.  I feel those that are ready to find out have
the right and the space to find out.)

She concluded with the question:  What would you say to a person to
explain all of this in a way that covers all of these facts and is not
detrimental to the person.

She gave a great talk and is a very organized and capable speaker.  All
of her information is substantiated and she does not interject her own
ideas, just facts.  Very well done.

-------

My comments:

Underneath it all, she really feels the release of all of the complete
information she knows must wait until it is placed in the proper form or
religion so people can absorb it without becoming upset.  That makes her
equally on par with 'government' suppression.

For those that are ready to hear, I request private meetings be made
available with those that wish to hear.

For those that are not ready to hear, great.

For more information on an explanation on how all of this makes sense in
a non-threatening way, I suggest you read the summary transcripts from
the group called the Pleiadians that in are Connecting Link magazine,
4808 Broadmore SE, Grand Rapids, MI 49512, [phone], (800) 426-
3963.

I will write up my summary of that explanation and send it to Linda as
well as post it for you under the title of 'An Explanation for Howe.'

*******


----- End Included Message -----


----- End Included Message -----
Path: ns-mx!uunet!van-bc!ubc-cs!mprgate.mpr.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!spani
From: [e-mail] (Leonard Spani)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Hypnosis in Abduction Studies
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Apr 92 23:57:12 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Lines: 71

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Travis R. Stone) writes:
|> In Article #3771, [e-mail]---whomever you are,
|> sir or madame---made a point about the validity of hypnosis as a
|> tool for researching possible abduction cases.  The mention of
|> hypnosis puts me in mind of the most atrocious book on hypnotically-
|> uncovered abduction experiences I think I've ever read---a piece of
|> tripe by some person called Edith Fiore, Ph.D, the title of which
|> escapes me at the moment ("Encounters", maybe?) and which serves as a
|> masterful example of how to ask blatantly leading questions.  Things
|> like "do you remember being taken up by the aliens into their space-
|> ship?" and "do you think the aliens were trying to cure your
|> hemmorhoids?" and "try to recall the first moment when the ET's
|> kidnapped you."
|>
|> Talk about "poisoning the well."

Ah yes... "Encounters - A Psychologist Reveals Case Studies of Abductions"
by Edith Fiore, PH.D.

You are absolutely right about this book. I like to think of it as the
best example of sesationalism and misuse of therapy I have found. To be
fair, Doctor Fiore does mention that her goal is to "help" her patients
rather than validate their claims.

My favorite part of the book is her interesting chapter titles like
chapter 2 "They Put Something in My Rectum" and chapter 17 "... The
Evidence Can No Longer Be Squelched".


|>
|> As far as hypnosis itself goes, can one really lend much weight to
|> what it retrieves in regard to these supposed "abductions" (remember,
|> folks---nothing has been definitely proven one way OR the other as
|> to the existence of EBE's) when it has been demonstrated to be of
|> dubious reliability under far less psychologically stressful
|> conditions (recalling license plate numbers, the color of a bank
|> robber's blazer, etc.)?  What I mean to say is, if it's spotty for
|> something as simple as helping someone to recall a plate number,
|> how good is it going to be in helping someone recall his kidnap and
|> medical examination by a mob of pug-ugly little grey men from Cygnus
|> Minor?......


Similar little details would be hard to remember through hypnosis in an
abduction regression (The UFOs license number , the colour of one of the
abductor's blazer ;-). What I am trying to say is that the *details* of a
recalled abduction would be as unreliable as the *details* of a recalled
bank heist.


When you take into account that a bank heist would likely be remembered
consiously before the hypnosis, and the abduction would likely not be
remembered, you open up a whole new can of worms, but for abductions where
the abduction event was partially consiously recalled before the hypnosis,
I see no reason to discount the actual *event* (with due caution about the
details recovered). Of course, an abduction rarely has supporting witnesses
as would a bank heist ;^)


|>
|> T.R. Stone
|> University of Nebraska-Omaha
|> Home of the Toughest Organic Chemistry Instructors in the Galaxy
|> (whether you hypnotize them or not.)
|>

--
***********************************************************************
| Leonard E. Spani      |       //!?\\         | (disclaimer-p)       |
| [e-mail]  |       \\?!//         | t                    |
***********************************************************************
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!ut-emx!ibmchs!auschs!awdprime.austin.ibm.com!woofer.austin.ibm.com!jlpicard
From: [e-mail] (Craig Becker)
Newsgroups: sci.astro,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: An idea how ETs could solve the source direction prob. of SETI
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Apr 92 14:16:38 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News)
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Organization: IBM Object Technology Products
Lines: 29
Xref: ns-mx sci.astro:16671 alt.alien.visitors:5457

[e-mail] (Stefan Hartmann) writes:
>
> Do You really think, that ETs are using still radio waves to communicate
> in interstellar space ??
>
> I think an ET race, which has the technology to visit other planets light
> years ahead, must have a better communication system than radio waves,
> which only travel at the speed at light !
>
> There must(!!!!!) be something much faster !!!

Ideally, but not necessarily.

> So it is still a pitty, when some scientists still look out with their
> big radio teleskops for alien radio pulses !
>
> Gee, guys, You are wasting Your times !!!!!

Well, I guess the question I'd like to ask is: what other, better
medium should we be investigating? Are we just supposed to sit
on our hands and do nothing because we don't know how to build an
ansible? In the immortal words of Harry Chapin: "It's better to do
something than nothing."

Craig
-- "To every man is given the     Craig Becker, Object Technology Products --
--  key to the gates of heaven;         Internet: [e-mail] --
--  the same key opens the gates      Austin: [e-mail] --
--  of hell" - Buddhist proverb                     VNET: CRAIGB at AUSVM1 --
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.com!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ucla-cs!ucla-se!seashell!mitch
From: [e-mail] (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin))
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.conspiracy,sci.skeptic,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Apr 92 00:13:44 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Distribution: na
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Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5458 alt.conspiracy:14529 sci.skeptic:23094 alt.paranormal:4863

In article <[e-mail]> grante@aquarius (Grant Edwards) writes:
>[e-mail] (Bob Ingria) writes:
>: In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Kenn Barry) writes:
>:
>: There is also the dual of paranoia, erotomania.  This is the
>: delusionary belief that there is a conspiracy to do good things for
>: you, or that some powerful figure is in love with you (secretly, of
>: course) and manipulating affairs behind the scenes to help you.
>:
>
>Sounds like most of the people on the talk shows on channel 14.  It
>used to be the Christian Broadcasting Network, now it's called
>something a bit milder (the Family Channel?) but it's as inane as
>ever.
>
>The powerful figure that manipulates things to help them is god, and
>they give him credit for all sorts of stupid things.

Of course.  Obviously, anyone who harbors any religious beliefs is
by definition psychotic, and should be locked up.

We moderns are fortunate to be so intellectually sophisticated; we
can reject all this metaphysical nonsense out of hand, because
we _know_ that our subjective, physical reality (as revealed to
us by our five senses) is truly the only reality.  And if anyone
dares to make us uncomfortable by suggesting otherwise, why we
can just reach for our large bag of labels and brand them as
"psychotic" or "delusionary", and call their suggestions "extraordinary
claims" (After all, we can't take time from our accepted intellectual
pursuits to investigate something that "everyone knows" is bogus.
Besides, it wouldn't look too good on our _curriculum vitae_, and
might threaten our chances for tenure.)

Why do I get the strong impression that some of these self-proclaimed
skeptics are just nerds who are trying too hard to emulate their
hero, the rational, logical, unemotional Mr. Spock?

Grow up; the universe is huge, and the sum of our knowledge
is infinitesimal, if not negligible.


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCLAIMER:
"Don't blame _me_, _I_ didn't do it!" --Krusty the Clown
"Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmeyoucan'tproveanything!" --Bartman
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!acsu.buffalo.edu!ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu!v129j6ed
From: [e-mail] (Caught Between the Love and the Anger..)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Apr 92 02:15:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) writes...
>In article <[e-mail]> grante@aquarius (Grant Edwards) writes:
>>[e-mail] (Bob Ingria) writes:
>Why do I get the strong impression that some of these self-proclaimed
>skeptics are just nerds who are trying too hard to emulate their
>hero, the rational, logical, unemotional Mr. Spock?

My hero was always Kirk. ;)
I was willing to listen to Mr. StollMan, giving him the benefit of
my doubt, then I read that these doubles are switching with the real
people, who keep coming back, and then switched again and again.
Either the aliens are REAL DUMB AS SH!T or his state is false.

*******************************************************************************
"Groovy!" - Ash "Evil Dead II : Dead By Dawn" (1987)
*******************************************************************************
"Fans are interesting things. Rush fans just can't comprehend why the
rest of the world doesn't like Rush. REM fans consider the rest of the world
beneath their social level to notice. Kate Bush fans love the rest of the
world, and the world loves them, but spend long nights plotting to knife
one another."                    --Richard Darwin
                                   Richard Darwin #33, "Gradenza"
*******************************************************************************
"It's Nothing.  It's just a private joke between me and whoever is going to
be my analyst."  - Cary Grant "Mr. Blandings Builds His Dream House" (1948)
*******************************************************************************
v129j6ed@ubvms
The KaTeFan(tm)
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!acsu.buffalo.edu!ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu!v129j6ed
From: [e-mail] (A DoppelGanger.)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Apr 92 02:25:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Caught Between the Love and the Anger..)
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Distribution: na
Organization: University at Buffalo
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Caught Between the Love and the Anger..) writes...
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) writes...
>>In article <[e-mail]> grante@aquarius (Grant Edwards) writes:
>>>[e-mail] (Bob Ingria) writes:
>>Why do I get the strong impression that some of these self-proclaimed
>>skeptics are just nerds who are trying too hard to emulate their
>>hero, the rational, logical, unemotional Mr. Spock?
>
>My hero was always Kirk. ;)
>I was willing to listen to Mr. StollMan, giving him the benefit of
>my doubt, then I read that these doubles are switching with the real
>people, who keep coming back, and then switched again and again.
>Either the aliens are REAL DUMB AS SH!T or his state is false.

I rescind this statement.
There are no aliens.
Spock was the MAN, Kirk was a wimp.


*******************************************************************************
"Groovy!" - Ash "Evil Dead II : Dead By Dawn" (1987)
*******************************************************************************
"Fans are interesting things. Rush fans just can't comprehend why the
rest of the world doesn't like Rush. REM fans consider the rest of the world
beneath their social level to notice. Kate Bush fans love the rest of the
world, and the world loves them, but spend long nights plotting to knife
one another."                    --Richard Darwin
                                   Richard Darwin #33, "Gradenza"
*******************************************************************************
"It's Nothing.  It's just a private joke between me and whoever is going to
be my analyst."  - Cary Grant "Mr. Blandings Builds His Dream House" (1948)
*******************************************************************************
v129j6ed@ubvms
The KaTeFan(tm)
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!acsu.buffalo.edu!ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu!v129j6ed
From: [e-mail] (Caught Between the Love and the Anger..)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: INVASION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Apr 92 02:29:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Distribution: na
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Lines: 40
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Nntp-Posting-Host: ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (A DoppelGanger.) writes...
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Caught Between the Love and the Anger..) writes...
>>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin)) writes...
>>>In article <[e-mail]> grante@aquarius (Grant Edwards) writes:
>>>>[e-mail] (Bob Ingria) writes:
>>>Why do I get the strong impression that some of these self-proclaimed
>>>skeptics are just nerds who are trying too hard to emulate their
>>>hero, the rational, logical, unemotional Mr. Spock?
>>
>>My hero was always Kirk. ;)
>>I was willing to listen to Mr. StollMan, giving him the benefit of
>>my doubt, then I read that these doubles are switching with the real
>>people, who keep coming back, and then switched again and again.
>>Either the aliens are REAL DUMB AS SH!T or his state is false.
>
>I rescind this statement.
>There are no aliens.
>Spock was the MAN, Kirk was a wimp.

I really mean that Gary Stollman has a problem, or we are dealing
with real dumb stupid aliens.  My point may be done in an idiodic
fashion, but without proof Gary, how can we take you seriously?
I am may not be a doctor, but you definately need a shot of
4 HOURS of Kate Bush. You may not recover, but it is excellent!!!

*******************************************************************************
"Groovy!" - Ash "Evil Dead II : Dead By Dawn" (1987)
*******************************************************************************
"Fans are interesting things. Rush fans just can't comprehend why the
rest of the world doesn't like Rush. REM fans consider the rest of the world
beneath their social level to notice. Kate Bush fans love the rest of the
world, and the world loves them, but spend long nights plotting to knife
one another."                    --Richard Darwin
                                   Richard Darwin #33, "Gradenza"
*******************************************************************************
"It's Nothing.  It's just a private joke between me and whoever is going to
be my analyst."  - Cary Grant "Mr. Blandings Builds His Dream House" (1948)
*******************************************************************************
v129j6ed@ubvms
The KaTeFan(tm)
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!anasaz!qip!billy
From: billy@anasaz (Bill Moore)
Newsgroups: talk.bizarre,soc.rights.alien,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: A question.
Keywords: moon
Message-ID: <1992Apr27.221031.11212@anasaz>
Date: 27 Apr 92 22:10:31 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Anasazi, Inc.  Phoenix, Az
Lines: 12
Xref: ns-mx talk.bizarre:56754 alt.alien.visitors:5462

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (RDC) writes:
->[e-mail] (Gary Stimpson) writes:
->>
->>WHY in the world would anybody want to go to the moon?
->
->Moonbabes.
->
Moonpies!
--
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
     Bill Moore     [e-mail]    [phone]
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!asuvax!anasaz!qip!billy
From: billy@anasaz (Bill Moore)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: A new TV show?
Message-ID: <1992Apr27.221532.11728@anasaz>
Date: 27 Apr 92 22:15:32 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Anasazi, Inc.  Phoenix, Az
Lines: 19

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Gary Stimpson) writes:
->Sitting infront of the TV at around 2am last night, I came across the end
->of a commerical for "INTRUDERS"  This man said something like, "After
->see'ing this, you WILL believe!"  Hmm.. wonder what it is?  Anybody know?
->It was on WJBK CBS.  Thought it might be some new UFO show..
->
A two part mini-series adapted from Bud Hopkins book beginning in about
3 weeks.  Supposed to be well done with good special effects.  Significance
is that CBS is using a UFO show as their main sweeps week attraction.
>
>;--- (Gary Stimpson) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
>;E-mail: [e-mail]
>;system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8


--
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     Bill Moore     [e-mail]    [phone]
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Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!van-bc!ubc-cs!mprgate.mpr.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!spani
From: [e-mail] (Leonard Spani)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Linda Moulton Howe: Cattle Mutilations and Human Abductions
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Apr 92 01:13:24 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Lines: 93

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Len Bucuvalas) writes:
|>
|>
|>
|> *******
|>
|> SUMMARY OF LECTURE BY
|> Linda Moulton Howe
|> San Francisco Whole Life Expo
|> 10-Noon, April 25, 1992
|>
|> -------
|>

[ lots of interesting stuff deleted ]

|>
|>
|> She also told me directly that she feels most people do not really want
|> to know what is really happening.  She feels that if a person was to
|> find out, that they would never be the same and could (maybe) not live
|> their life the same again.  I feel those that are ready to find out have
|> the right and the space to find out.)
|>

I am getting real tired of the old "I can't give out conclusive evidence
because people would get upset" line. If she does have any evidence to back
up her claims she should make it available. I have an open mind, but I'm
not stupid enough to fall for this *every* time ;^)


[...]

|> My comments:
|>
|> Underneath it all, she really feels the release of all of the complete
|> information she knows must wait until it is placed in the proper form or
                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> religion so people can absorb it without becoming upset.  That makes her
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
|> equally on par with 'government' suppression.



Good lord... this is a great way to start a big-money cult, but about the
shitiest way of dealing with "research" I know of. Are you sure she really
feels the way you interpreted her to feel ;^)



|>
|> For those that are ready to hear, I request private meetings be made
|> available with those that wish to hear.
|>
|> For those that are not ready to hear, great.
|>


Why private meetings? Could she not post her information to the net?
A private meeting is a little too costly for me anyway (unless she happens to
be in Vancouver.)



|> For more information on an explanation on how all of this makes sense in
|> a non-threatening way, I suggest you read the summary transcripts from
|> the group called the Pleiadians that in are Connecting Link magazine,
|> 4808 Broadmore SE, Grand Rapids, MI 49512, [phone], (800) 426-
|> 3963.


It seems to me like you are using Linda's information (and her name) to
push you own cause or beliefs. Yes?


|>
|> I will write up my summary of that explanation and send it to Linda as
|> well as post it for you under the title of 'An Explanation for Howe.'


Be sure to post Linda's response.


|>
|> *******



--
***********************************************************************
| Leonard E. Spani      |       //!?\\         | (disclaimer-p)       |
| [e-mail]  |       \\?!//         | t                    |
***********************************************************************
Path: ns-mx!uunet!boulder!ucsu!hoza
From: [e-mail] (HOZA MARK R)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: new TV show
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Apr 92 01:22:28 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Lines: 16

[e-mail] writes:

>According to *UFO Magazine* in a section called Media Watch, *Intruders* will
>be a CBS miniseries which (they say) "we've been informed does NOT really
>have a character based on Budd Hopkins. Just the title and a *certain element*
>were purchased from Hopkins. * The male lead, played by Richard Crenna, is
>really
>a conglomerate of UFO personalities, says someone in the know. At any rate,
>it may air around 14-18 May, I don't have the exact dates.

"Intruders will be airing on CBS Sunday, May 17 and Tuesday, May 19.  I
guess it is going to be 2 hours each night.  I got this information off of
a local MUFON NET relay, so I think that it is probably accurate.

Mark Hoza
Boulder, CO
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!yale.edu!jvnc.net!darwin.sura.net!ukma!widener!eff!world!Costanza
From: [e-mail] (Peter Costanza)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Mach6 spy plane
Summary: stealth jump jet
Keywords: spy ufo plane
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Apr 92 01:47:05 GMT
Expires: Sat, 30 May 1992 04:00:00 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: The World Public Access UNIX, Brookline, MA
Lines: 9

An acquaintance of mine in upstate New York recently saw an aircraft that
he thought was a spaceship.  It was shaped like a regular airplane but
instead of regular wings had two massive shapes on each side of the central
fuselage; the shapes were on the end of what appeared to be very short
connecting "wings" on either side of the fuselage.  He said it made a loud
whining or humming sound, moved very slowly and then zoomed away.  It's
general description made me wonder whether it was a stealth version of a
jump-jet (like the Harrier) with hover capability.  There is a major
airbase in the area.  Sighting was late at night over a residential area.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!ames!sgi!odin!slugo.corp.sgi.com!rodb
From: [e-mail] (Rod Beckwith)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: M.U.F.O.N. Journal
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Apr 92 03:58:07 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (Net News)
Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc.
Lines: 22
Nntp-Posting-Host: slugo.corp.sgi.com

Hello all;

Thanks for all the e-mail concerning just what M.U.F.O.N. is all about. I just got off the phone with the international director of M.U.F.O.N.,Walt Andrus & he said it was ok to publish the info on the internet.
The journal has access to & publishes UFO sighting reports from all over the world as investigated by M.U.F.O.N.'s international liaison represenatives & investigators. It has a staff of reporters & columists second to none in the U.F.O. publishing field.Guest writers include members of M.U.F.O.N.'s advisory board of consultants,most of whom possess doctorates in their respective fields of expertise.
The journal is our most significant means of sharing details of U.F.O. sightings reports & vital information related to the U.F.O. phenomenon with our members around the world.The M.U.F.O.N. U.F.O. Journal (successor to SKYLOOK founded in 1967) has established itself as the leading monthly U.F.O. magazine in the world today.(24 or more pages monthly)
A subscription to the journal is included in the annual M.U.F.O.N. membership dues of $25.00 in the U.S.A. & $30.00 in foreign countries.Payment of foreign
membership/subsciption must be in the form of international postal money order,a check written against an U.S. bank having electronic coding,or cash in U.S. dollars.A sample copy of the journal may be obtained for $2.50

                            M.U.F.O.N.
                            Mutual U.F.O. Network, Inc.
                            103 Oldtowne Road
                            Seguin,Texas 78155-4099  U.S.A.

Thanks,
Rod Beckwith

--
Rod Beckwith     |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Datacom I/S      |"The great obstacle of progress is not ignorance,
[e-mail]|but the illusion of knowledge.
                 |$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!rutgers!andromeda.rutgers.edu!mccabe
From: [e-mail] (Chris Mccabe)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Question on physics of ufo mechanics
Keywords: curious
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Apr 92 04:42:34 GMT
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Lines: 13



    The other day I was explaining to some friends how I had heard
    stories about scientists actually building some sort of device
    that could levitate off the ground.  Apparrently, the device
    was based on some sort of electromagnetic principles (I think).
    Anyway, I went on to explain how, once the device (which had
    been resting on some sort of scale) was activated, the weight
    of the scale went down, and the device proceeded to levitate off
    the scale.  Now, my friends had a problem with this because they
    pointed out that the scale should not have lost weight since
    the device has to push downward with the same or greater force
    to lift up (like a helicoptor).  Is this point valid?
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!kingpol!titan.kingston.ac.uk!as_m332
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Serious research
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Apr 92 09:04:57 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (Network News)
Organization: Vic20 Appreciation Society
Lines: 22
Nntp-Posting-Host: tamara

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Karl Bridges) writes:

> Isn't it time that there be a new group established i.e.
>alt.ufo.research for those who are seriously interested in what's going
>on as a scientific/sociological phenomenon.  Paranoid drug induced
>fantasies are, for those interested, OK, but that's all that ever
>appears here.  We need less from the lunatic fringe and more from some
>serious research.

    A good idea, but unfortunately, any news group with
    the name "ufo" or "alien" in the title will attract
    unwanted postings from the new  age fraternity, and
    other fringe subjects like moths to a light.
    It's a pity  they can't stick to  their own groups,
    and leave this group free for serious discussion.

-Sean.

--
Sean Eaton.
Mathematics, Kingston Poly.
[e-mail] or [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!zephyr.ens.tek.com!uw-beaver!ubc-cs!alberta!camrose!acad2.alaska.edu!asljl
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,sci.space
Subject: FLORIDA GROUP CONTACT THE FEDERATION
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Apr 92 16:34:37 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Alaska
Lines: 25
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5470 sci.space:29418
Nntp-Posting-Host: acad2.alaska.edu

ATTENTION FLORIDA GROUP OF THE UNIVERISTY OF FLORIDA!!!!!
THIS IS THE FEDERATION CALLING !!!!! PLEASE RESPOND.

This Account will be expire in four weeks. We are trying to reach a
Andy C. there. He was chosen to speak for a group of about 200. I recieved
a message from him about 2 weeks ago and have heard nothing since. Please
Answer. We would like to start a Us mail correspondence. Here is our
address.

Lady Rhavyn
po.box.231772
anchorage, alaska,
          99523-1772

If you are going to correspond with us mail please let us know. We know you
wished names unused, but we have not headr from you . Vital information
stands by to be sent for the strat of the project we discussed. Please
Respond as soon as possible. We wish to start. And we wish to give you
as much as we have available. We can no longer post information due to
this universities restrictions.  Please contact us so  we can get going.

urgently signed
Lady Rhavyn.
Keep The faith, And Peace be with you all.

Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!IASTATE.EDU!danwell
From: [e-mail] (Daniel A Ashlock)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Strawman: an example (was: INVASION)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Apr 92 13:30:40 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Daniel A Ashlock)
Distribution: na
Organization: Iowa State University
Lines: 51

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Robert R.
Mitchell (SEAS admin)) writes:

              [stuff from UFO thread deleted]

> Of course.  Obviously, anyone who harbors any religious beliefs is
> by definition psychotic, and should be locked up.

   Absoutively!

S> We moderns are fortunate to be so intellectually sophisticated; we
T> can reject all this metaphysical nonsense out of hand, because
R> we _know_ that our subjective, physical reality (as revealed to
A> us by our five senses) is truly the only reality.  And if anyone
W> dares to make us uncomfortable by suggesting otherwise, why we
 > can just reach for our large bag of labels and brand them as
M> "psychotic" or "delusionary", and call their suggestions "extraordinary
A> claims" (After all, we can't take time from our accepted intellectual
N> pursuits to investigate something that "everyone knows" is bogus.
 > Besides, it wouldn't look too good on our _curriculum vitae_, and
 > might threaten our chances for tenure.)

     This is _not_ the method of skeptics...

>Why do I get the strong impression that some of these self-proclaimed
>skeptics are just nerds who are trying too hard to emulate their
>hero, the rational, logical, unemotional Mr. Spock?

        Well, _my_ hero is Thomas Jefferson.

> Grow up; the universe is huge, and the sum of our knowledge
> is infinitesimal, if not negligible.

   Where do they grow these people, abandoned sound stages in Burbank
California?  Thanks, Bob, for demonstrating both straw men and
grotesque overgeneralization in one post.

   Now, the beef.  I don't think _any_ skeptic believes what comes in through
his senses and nothing else...

   I listen to my dreams which contain answers concocted by some part of myself
that is _not_ under my concious control.  I listen to my memory which contains
information gathered by thousands of different humans, each with their own
perspective, and often using synthetic senses that can see gamma rays,
neutrinos, or the distant past.  I listen most of all to my carefully
cultivated reason which can sift out hidden information or find
inconsistencies in the arguments of those who _will not_ train their most
useful "sense".

Dan
[e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!uunet!mcsun!uknet!warwick!mrccrc!mrccrc!sgamble
From: [e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: JACQUES VALLEE LECTURES IN UK
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Apr 92 12:58:59 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293)
Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK
Lines: 23
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Jacqueline Cote) writes:
> Hmmm hadn't  Vallee given up his belief in little green men and hadn't
> he gone back to Astrophysics? He still publishes in magazines like
> Astronomy and Astrophysics. Or are there TWO Jacques' Vallee?
>
> Jacqueline

From what I recall of his lecture last Friday, Jacques became disillusioned with
the extraterrestrial explanation for UFO phenomena around 1980. He said that
he was very concerned about the route other US researchers were following and
wanted to investigate other possibilities. He was fairly critical of much of
abduction research. So it might be true to say he has given up belief in
little green men. The result of these researches are described in his three
books Dimensions, Confrontations and, most recently, Revelations.

As to if he still writes about astrophysics I do not know

Steve.
--
(Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!)
Steve Gamble, Computing Services,
Clinical Research Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK.
Phone: [phone]  JANET: [e-mail] INTERNET: [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!portal!cup.portal.com!Don_-_Showen
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: talk.religion.newage,sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: What is going on - The Pleiadians 4
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Apr 92 14:58:59 GMT
Organization: The Portal System (TM)
Lines: 296
Xref: ns-mx talk.religion.newage:10120 sci.skeptic:23127 alt.alien.visitors:5473

FYI Last year I offered email transcripts of the Pleiadian tapes entitled
Harmonics of Frequency Response and the Human DNA.  Over 135 net folks
requested copies. Many replied that they enjoyed them and asked for more.
Barbra Marciniak requested that I stop sending out that title as she is
selling the printed transcript now.  She and the editor of Connecting Link
magazine did gave me permission to scan and post the Pleiadian Connecting Link
articles.  So I will be posting a new one every week or two. Don Showen

ISSUE 4 Conversation With The Pleiadians

Excerpted from the tape:

"WHAT IS GOING ON."

    We are here. It has come to our attention most recently that there are
questions [about] this speaking of extraterrestrials and other beings through
human vehicles. Many are in great question about this. Many desire this for
themselves. Many doubt the validity of the happening. We would like to discuss
this because what you are preparing yourselves for is your own experiences
along these lines.
    This process is available to many. The broadcastings that are going
out from the areas outside of your planet, that are circling your planet, that
are being sent from various extraterrestrial energies, are in the air. You, or
any, can pick this up if you learn how to tune in to vibrations that are
looking for the transmitter. As you act as [a] receiver to receive this
vibration, you transmit this energy to others.
    There may seem to be in this phenomenon called channeling, a variety
of information, personalities, characters. This is as it should be because
humanities are all unique. They each have their own stamp of identity, the
song that their soul sings that brings them into being. And so, each one that
will tune in to these electromagnetic wave lengths can interpret what they are
hearing according to who they are.
    Some may feel that they need to study and work very hard before they
are ready or in preparation for this. But another, who lives quite simply and
is totally unaware of any sort of New Age happening can one day, simply by
being themselves, by trusting, living in the moment, believing in a world that
is safe and uplifting, stretch their consciousness and quite naturally tune in
to ideas and information that they know is coming from other portions outside
of themselves.
    The individual, of course, affects to a certain extent, the type of
information that is perceived. You, yourselves, know that humanities speak out
their beliefs about themselves. [Beliefs] somewhat affect this sort of
communication [channeling], so there will always be a certain bit of
distortion.
    If we were speaking for ten of your years and the vehicle was aligned,
there would still be a distortion of information because there would still be
territory and experience that would be beyond the vehicle's comprehension.
    You are third dimensional beings, quite rooted in your ideas and your
beliefs about yourselves. You are attempting to change this idea but society
as a whole is quite convinced that you are all solid beings and the world is a
solid place. And so, what is occurring is that as you grow, as you alter your
perceptions of who you think you are, [there] is always an expansion that lies
further.
    At present, your experiences are limited as to what you think can be.
When you learn to tune in to your own channelings, when you learn to, if you
so desire, speak of the vibrations that are within the air, or to allow and
invite groups of entities or your Higher Selves to speak through you, you will
have a greater perception of the dualities that exist within third dimensional
experience. As you learn to give legitimacy to something that does not, cannot
be colored in this way, new questions will arise within yourselves.
    It takes a while to get used to new experiences, and then one
acclimates and adjusts. However, even if you were to do this continually,
there is always an adjustment. There is always some new perception of being
that you will be attempting to fit into where you presently are.
    We share this with you so that you do not allow yourself to move into
great frustration with your experiences. Many of you are anxious, many of you
are excited. Many of you are concerned about changes that are occurring within
yourselves and on the planet as well. It is important to place these anxieties
and concerns in the proper perspective. Allow yourselves to be. Do not
continually project yourself in anticipation of what lies ahead. Be in your
present moment of experience. That moment will unfold continuously into future
moments which will perhaps hold answers to your questions from the present.
    You have heard us speak that there is a great polarization that is
taking place on your planet. The call has gone out, and within the physical
vehicles of many on your planet there is a resonating, a pre-coded chord that
has been struck within the souls of certain members of mankind, and they are
arising themselves, stretching their being, looking around and waking
themselves up in great numbers. There are those who are here to teach, who are
here to help others remember, and there are those who refuse, and who will
become hardened, and who will become quite rigid in their beliefs, in their
understandings. It is this polarization that is occurring at this time.
    The world is not solid as your scientists claim it to be. No more than
you are solid beings. You must understand this on some level. Learn to feel
what we are saying, for that is indeed what this is about, for you to feel
what we are telling you, not for you to think it out and to rationalize it,
but to feel which world that you are in. Feel how you move through a world
that you create and that dances for you, dances to the tune of your thoughts,
dances to the song of your being. For you are, as we always gently remind you,
a result of your thought manifestations. This understanding, this knowledge,
is growing very deeply within you. We are asking you now, you who we cherish
very dearly, to carry within you this understanding. You are creating in each
and every moment a new world, because you yourselves know that a new world is
forming, and that you are bringing more and more members of humanity onto this
world.
    That is a portion of what is going on. You each are great
participants, you each are great designers in this experience. You each are
learning how to become your own speaker of information, your own channel of
energy, your own light manifestation of being.
    QUESTION: How can we clear our channels and reduce blockages in order
to be more in tune with the energy and help it come?
    PLEIADIANS: We have always stated to you, quite clearly, that you do
your greatest work with yourself. You are your primary tool, and your work is
through your thoughts and your understanding of these thoughts. We understand
that that is a difficult concept for many. You wish alternative tools to show
yourselves that you are really doing something, because you have difficulty in
realizing that if you think it, it is occurring. If you wish to align your
body and make it in preparation for this change that is coming, you must work
within your idea about yourselves. That is most important.
    If we tell you to align your thoughts and you do not believe that your
thoughts do anything, or that they can be that powerful, then you are not
aligning yourselves. You must come to the core of what your own ideas are
about yourselves. If you believe that it is important for you to align
yourselves with the proper food, then we would say to you indeed, align
yourselves with what you feel comfortable with.
    We have spoken of the animal consciousness, and how the food chain
from our perspective, has become distorted. The consciousness in animals is
not aligned with giving up their lives at this time to keep you alive because
you are not in reciprocity with the animals. You are like master and slave
with them. That is not the ideal situation to be in and to still be eating the
animals.
    Your bodies are magnificent transmuters of energy and, ideally, you
can transmute any energy if you so believe. In addition, if you have beliefs
about the use of the body through activities of exercise, and that you are not
living up to this, then align yourself with what is necessary. If you have
ideas about your sexuality and the expression of who you are, and you are not
living up to this, then place yourselves in alignment with this. We cannot
give you a list of do's and don'ts because you need to look to yourselves to
see how you judge yourselves and what limitations you place on yourselves.
    Understand that the shape of the body, the health of the body, is not
necessarily limiting the spiritual development. One could be ridden with
disease and on the death bed and have the most enlightening feeling of
existence. You may utilize your body and your energies in whichever way suits
you.
    We would say to you always, to place yourself first in comfort with
what you are eating and that what you place into your body you ask that
vibrations become harmonious with your own vibrations and assist you in your
own health and growth. That in itself will save you a lot of difficulty.
    Practically speaking, whatever you are discovering your feelings are
about your own personal development, we would recommend that at least once a
day for five minutes or so to see yourself involved in receiving light. You
may see an individual, or an entity, present you with light in your hands
through a star, through a ball, through a beam, through a cluster. Use your
own creative abilities. Believe in them. Call this energy to yourself and
become the designer and the authority of your own experience. A good time to
do this is when you are driving your cars.
    Your eyes do not have to be closed for these situations. Say, "I am
light. I am light. I welcome light into my life. I am allowing myself to
develop into a light experience of being."
    Anything that you focus on and anything that you feel moved to express
along this line is correct for you. It is your intention of experience that
will create the experience. It is your centeredness within the present, the
now-ness of your being, that will always keep you moving towards this great
call.
    What we are saying is that you are all quite capable. With a bit of
guidance and understanding about the limitations that you have so innocently
placed around yourselves, as you learn to strip these down, you will find that
you will be changing quite miraculously.
    QUESTION: I have a problem with the idea that our feelings are true
and we shouldn't trust our rational thought. I believe your feelings can
deceive you just as much as your rational discourse.
    PLEIADIANS: This individual has said that he believes that your
feelings can be misleading. That is his belief. That is the belief that he
will always have to work with until he changes to a belief that says, "my
feelings guide me to wherever I need to be." It is your choice whether you
will trust these feelings, whether you will question or mistrust them.
    Feelings, impulses, the imagination, are all gifts. They are all a
part of the built-in guidance system that is a part of humanities. When you
learn to develop belief systems that are in accordance with these innate
abilities they can steer you in the direction of your greatest growth.
    What we are saying is to tap into areas that are there to guide you.
Discover what beliefs you have about those areas that may perhaps limit the
extent of their assistance within your lives or that may disallow what they
can do for you. Whenever you are in a state where you are suspicious of
yourself, you are in an area that needs examination.
    You are glorious, joyful beings. If you align yourselves with proper
beliefs about yourselves, [you] will spontaneously grow and blossom. Listen to
yourselves when you speak. Understand that you are speaking the parameters of
your experience. You are saying to the world, "this is how I structure myself.
This is how I structure my experience. I do not always trust my feelings."
Then you will have to learn how to live within that parameter. You will have
to set up a device to understand when to trust and when not to trust.
    Learn that the body speaks to you and that you can, if you choose,
learn to trust your feelings.
    They will not signal you to do something inappropriate. You learn to
recognize how the feelings can mask certain territory of experience you do not
wish to look into.
    When one is afraid, when that is the basic belief, that one has to
watch out, the body will signal fear when it is unnecessary. The body is
responding to the mind which expects fearful situations around every comer.
And so the body is continuously afraid of where it could be going and it is
shutting down, and it is sending off fear. But the fear is programmed by the
mind itself.
    This is why we say be very aware of your thought processes and belief
systems. Whatever you are believing is what you are working on. Attempt to
step outside of your belief system and relinquish certain amounts of control.
Allow yourselves to realize that what you think is your world. Do yourself a
favor to expedite your development.
    Create belief systems that you can comfortably live within that
enhance your experience and not limit it. You may create and develop whatever
belief system you like. We are merely saying to utilize the tools that are
innately yours to flower and grow.
    QUESTION: Could you talk more about the process of implanting
knowledge in our beings?
    PLEIADIANS: The knowledge that is being fed to you is not just the
words we have been speaking. Information travels on thought beams, it travels
on light beams. Thought and light are greatly intertwined. They are one.
Thought to you is a more complete and familiar energy than is light. Light is
more intellectual for you. But that will be changing.
    The society that you are moving toward is one of learning and power
through thought. You came [to this class] to exchange and surrender a certain
set of beliefs and to make room for new information that you could consider
and then to pick up your other beliefs and incorporate if you so choose, what
it is that you have heard. That is occurring on one level. On other levels of
experience,  there is energy in the room. And it moves out and connects with
each and every one of you.
    The energy is partly garnished and brought here by we Pleiadians, but
each of you bring a covey of guides with you, Higher Selves, and each of you
are surrounded by those who would assist you, by those who would bring you to
your greatest development. As we speak, those that are around you and working
with you teach you as well. They take information that is nonverbal and
implant it. They call it to you and put it into your etheric field, your aura,
your Higher Self, your Universal Mind. It's there for you to sort out and
discover later.
    When you may be driving by yourself, walking in the fields, fishing at
a stream. or flying in the air, you catch a thought that comes to you out of
nowhere. You are selecting and bringing to yourself the information that is
carried to you by those who surround you and who find you ripe for connecting.
    If you wish to be riper and to have more intuitive knowings and
understandings, then open yourself to this experience. By opening yourself to
this experience, you may quite consciously state your beliefs and your intents
that you are now prepared to receive and understand material and information
about yourself, about your existence, about your earth plane that was out of
reach prior to this time.
    As you begin to say this, that you are now ready to receive this
information, be prepared,  for you will receive it from many directions. Books
will be shoved into your hands. Dreams will take you around the universe. Many
will be coming to invite you places or to share with you what they have found.
Remember, we share with you a picture of your reality so you can facilitate
your experience here, so that you can enjoy yourselves within these times,
because these times are going to be full of change.
    The world will be turned upside down to a certain extent. All
activities are probable and contingent upon humanity's development. As each
learns more, the world can be a more harmonious place. Still, there is going
to be a need to complete the change. It is probable that you will see much
collapse within the system as you know it, because the system is corrupted.
    Think about structures that exist on your planet. They no longer hold
up to the new belief systems that are bringing in new energies. Do not be
afraid of change. We are here to guide, as many are here to guide, to allow
you to feel comfortable, so that you can understand the world in its
transition, so that you can know that you have chosen a place of being.
    Through your thoughts you will select the experience that you desire.
If you see certain structures falling apart around you, you decide how you are
going to be affected by this. Understand when there is great turmoil and
collapse, there is a great need for restructuring, rebuilding. This is what
you are being prepared for. To rebuild with new values, with new basic laws.
    You all are potential givers of new principles of existence. As you
learn to open yourself to this information through the universal energies that
are everywhere, and through your belief that you can speak these energies, and
that you are indeed coming into your own glory, you will do this.
    You have taken on much light to carry you through times that will be
of great challenge and upliftment. We welcome you to the cosmos and to the
intimacy of your being. We send you our love and our great blessings and our
congratulations.

THE SOURCE: The Pleiadians are a collective of extraterrestrials from the star
system the Pleiades. The Pleiadian culture is ancient and was "seeded" from
another universe of love long before Earth was created. They have formed a
tremendous society which operates with love, with ideas and ideals that we are
yet unfamiliar with. The Pleiadians call themselves our ancient family because
many of us came here from the Pleiades to participate in the new experiment of
Earth. The Pleiadians are now here as ambassadors from another universe to
help Earth through her difficult transition from the third dimension to the
fourth dimension and to assist each of us in our personal endeavors of
awakening, remembering and knowing.

'THE CHANNEL: Barbara J . Marciniak has been a student of Metaphysics for many
years. She gives credit to the Seth material channeled by Jane Roberts for her
insight into the necessity for conscious, intentional creation of personal
experience. Barbara travels extensively. In Athens, Greece in May of 1988, she
began channeling the Pleiadians after she and a group of friends experienced a
spiritual awakening in the Great Pyramid at Giza. Barbara currently lives in
Raleigh, North Carolina where she gives class sessions and workshops with the
Pleiadians.

You may contact Barbara at Bold Connections Unlimited, P. O. Box 6521,
Raleigh, NC 27628.

      S U B S C R I B E T O CONNECTING LINK   1 Year Subscription (6 issues)
is just $20 U.S. (12 issues) $35   Canada $32* (air) 12 issues $59*   Overseas
$44* (air) 12 issues $83*  To order your subscription use order form in center
of magazine Credit card orders only call [phone] * U.S. Currency

Connecting Link Magazine 9392 Whitneyville Rd. Alto, MI. 49302-9694

Copyrighted by Barbara  Marciniak Reprinted from Connecting Link Magazine with
permission.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!anson
From: [e-mail] (Anson Kennedy)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: Crop Circles
Keywords: Crop Circles North America
Message-ID: <l6#[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Apr 92 14:41:17 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 20
Xref: ns-mx alt.alien.visitors:5474 alt.paranormal:4870

[e-mail] (Chris Rutkowski) writes:

>For all those interested, NNAIICR has received word that a new crop
>circle formation has been found near Jonesboro, Georgia (?). It was
>discovered on April 20, 1992.

>In addition, UFO activity in New Hampshire over the past few weeks has
>also been claimed to have produced traces and possibel crop circles.

>Does anyone have further info?

I checked with the Assistant State Director for the Georgia MUFON, he hasn't
heard of it.  I'll let you know if I hear anything else.
--

Anson Kennedy
Secretary of the Georgia Skeptics (but don't even THINK I speak for them!)

                  "If I had been the Virgin Mary, I would have said 'No.'"
                                      -Margaret "Stevie" Smith (1902-1971)
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From: [e-mail] (John Hughes)
Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: ALL CONERNED ABOUT FEDERATION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Apr 92 05:17:18 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Datalog Consulting, Tucson, AZ
Lines: 11
Xref: ns-mx sci.space:29420 alt.alien.visitors:5475

This "federation" stuff is all some kind of joke, right? Humor?

An experiment by the psych. dept. at the univ. of alaska?



--
|     John M. Hughes      | "...unfolding in consciousness at the            |
| datalog.com!moondog!jmh | deliberate speed of pondering."  - Daniel Dennet |
| [e-mail]     |--------------------------------------------------|
| [e-mail] |   P.O.Box 43305      Tucson     AZ       85733   |
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From: [e-mail] (Karl Bridges)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Serious research--another comment
Summary: Need for information sharing
Keywords: research
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Apr 92 16:28:37 GMT
Organization: Educational Computing Network
Lines: 13


 I'm not out to start a crusade, but the comment to my last post was
encouraging.  A comment:  it seems at this point what we need is simply
a way to know what's being done and who's doing it.  Suggestions:
1) It might be possible to avoid the noise level by simply bypassing the
network newsgroup and working simply with e-mail between individuals.A
positive kind of chain letter approach.
2) Personally, I'd like to know what research tools are available
already on the net.  Perhaps an FTP site(s) where comments, files, list
of e-mail addresses,ect could be available.
3) There needs to be some kind of concensus as to what we're looking
for. Or at least what we're not interested in.
At any rate I step down from my soapbox and await comments, flames,ect.
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!olivea!uunet!zephyr.ens.tek.com!psgrain!quagga!cc188.ru.ac.za!g90m1473
From: [e-mail] (MR CR MAIN)
Newsgroups: sci.skeptic,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: PENTAGON ADMITS IT HAS ALIEN VESSELS
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Apr 92 18:15:25 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Rhodes University NNTP server)
Organization: Rhodes University, Grahamstown, South Africa
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In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Leonard Spani) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Daniel A Ashlock) writes:
>|> In article <[e-mail]>,
>|> [e-mail] (Len Bucuvalas) writes:
>[...]
>|> >
>|> >   I recently heard a Radio One program in the UK that contained
>|> > an interview with a leading proponent of the popular "US Government has
>|> > aliens locked up and is experimenting with their spaceplanes" conspiracy
>|> > theory. However this particular individual sounded very reasonable, did
>|> > not make any outrageous claims, and further had some interesting facts
>|>                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>|> > to disclose. In particular he mentioned several verifiable facts which
>|> > I would like some followup on:
>|>
>|>    The above _is_ an outrageous claim.  I conclude you wouldn't know an
>|> outrageous claim if it bit you in the anatomy.
>|>
>|> >   Rockwell International and NASA were planning a *massive*
>|> > joint exhibition of space exploration this year (1991) but it was delayed
>|> > inexplicably until 1992. In the *official* prospectus for this exhibition,
>|> > one of the exhibits was clearly stated to be "an extraterrestrial space
>|> > craft".
>|>
>|>    Right.  Another non-outrageous claim?
>|>
>|>    Say "good night, Gracie".
>|>
>|> Dan
>|> [e-mail]


>Actually, I beleive that the travelling space exhibit part may be true.
>I don't have my references with me, but I read in Timothy Good's
>1991 book "Alien Liaison" about a venture that sounds the same.

>It was called "Cosmic Journey" and was to be a joint venture between
>NASA and Ringling Brothers and Barnum and Bailey International. The touring
>space exhibit was to include a *real* captured alien space craft and a
>frozen alien corpse. The venture was cancelled in 1991 or delayed. Good's
>references seemed reasonable, but the "military person" who was to supply
>to alien artifacts could have been just yanking someone's chains.

>I wish I had the book with me :^(


>Leonard.


>--
>***********************************************************************
>| Leonard E. Spani      |       //!?\\         | (disclaimer-p)       |
>| [e-mail]  |       \\?!//         | t                    |
>***********************************************************************
References seem rather dubious but if you happen to encounter one, don't let
it read ant poetry to you.
Path: ns-mx!uunet!sun-barr!cs.utexas.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!ucla-cs!ucla-se!seashell!mitch
From: [e-mail] (Robert R. Mitchell (SEAS admin))
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Strawman: an example (was: INVASION)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Apr 92 20:45:08 GMT
References: <[e-mail]: <[e-mail]: <[e-mail]:
Sender: [e-mail]
Distribution: na
Organization: SEASnet, University of California, Los Angeles
Lines: 98

In article <[e-mail]: [e-mail] (Daniel A Ashlock) writes:
:In article <[e-mail]:, [e-mail] (Robert R.
:Mitchell (SEAS admin)) writes:
:
:              [stuff from UFO thread deleted]
:
:: Of course.  Obviously, anyone who harbors any religious beliefs is
:: by definition psychotic, and should be locked up.
:
:   Absoutively!

I was trying to be sarcastic; perhaps it wasn't obvious.
I sincerely hope you don't "absoutively" agree with my statement
above.

:S: We moderns are fortunate to be so intellectually sophisticated; we
:T: can reject all this metaphysical nonsense out of hand, because
:R: we _know_ that our subjective, physical reality (as revealed to
:A: us by our five senses) is truly the only reality.  And if anyone
:W: dares to make us uncomfortable by suggesting otherwise, why we
: : can just reach for our large bag of labels and brand them as
:M: "psychotic" or "delusionary", and call their suggestions "extraordinary
:A: claims" (After all, we can't take time from our accepted intellectual
:N: pursuits to investigate something that "everyone knows" is bogus.
: : Besides, it wouldn't look too good on our _curriculum vitae_, and
: : might threaten our chances for tenure.)
:
:     This is _not_ the method of skeptics...

Maybe that seventh cup of coffee was a mistake. :-)
You are quite correct, this is not a rational, logical argument,
nor was it intended as such.  This was purely a sarcastic, _emotional_,
response to the psuedo-scientific hubris and dogmatic "skepticism"
we've seen all too much of lately.

I have no beef with honorable skeptics or honest scientific research.
But I stand by the statement that _some_ people are too quick to reach
for a label when confronted by something uncomfortable, and I will
continue to castigate those who do so.

::Why do I get the strong impression that some of these self-proclaimed
::skeptics are just nerds who are trying too hard to emulate their
::hero, the rational, logical, unemotional Mr. Spock?
:
:        Well, _my_ hero is Thomas Jefferson.

My hero is Kirk Gibson.  And the guy who invented Spandex.

:: Grow up; the universe is huge, and the sum of our knowledge
:: is infinitesimal, if not negligible.

...by which I meant:  We don't have all the answers, and we sound
pathetic when we pretend that we do.

:   Where do they grow these people, abandoned sound stages in Burbank
:California?  Thanks, Bob, for demonstrating both straw men and
:grotesque overgeneralization in one post.

Admittedly guilty on both counts, but it _was_ intentional.

Burbank?  Oh, I get it.  You're trying to label me as "just another
one of those Southern California looneys".  Thanks, Dan, for
underscoring the point I'm trying to make.  (My skewed perception
of reality properly should be attributed to growing up in the
vast and desolate third world wasteland known as "Arizona".  I was
an asshole long before I checked into Hotel California, and California
was fucked up long before I got here.)

:   Now, the beef.  I don't think _any_ skeptic believes what comes in through
:his senses and nothing else...

Again, I am not picking on the honest skeptics.

:   I listen to my dreams which contain answers concocted by some part of myself
:that is _not_ under my concious control.  I listen to my memory which contains
:information gathered by thousands of different humans, each with their own
:perspective, and often using synthetic senses that can see gamma rays,
:neutrinos, or the distant past.  I listen most of all to my carefully
:cultivated reason which can sift out hidden information or find
:inconsistencies in the arguments of those who _will not_ train their most
:useful "sense".
:
:Dan
:[e-mail]

I can respect that.  I could respect it even more if you stated this
as a goal to strive for rather than as a _fait_accompli_ (pardon my
French :-).  I think you will agree that your "carefully cultivated
reason" occasionally will lead you to an erroneous conclusion.

I listen to KNAC, 105.5 FM (_NO_ Howard Stern in the morning). :-)


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCLAIMER:
"Don't blame _me_, _I_ didn't do it!" --Krusty the Clown
"Ididn'tdoitnobodysawmeyoucan'tproveanything!" --Bartman
Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!pa.dec.com!datum.nyo.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!sousa.ltn.dec.com!hawk1.enet.dec.com!bottom
From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: RE: new TV show
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Apr 92 11:35:04 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] ()
Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation
Lines: 15

[e-mail] writes:

>According to *UFO Magazine* in a section called Media Watch, *Intruders* will
>be a CBS miniseries which (they say) "we've been informed does NOT really
>have a character based on Budd Hopkins. Just the title and a *certain element*
>were purchased from Hopkins. * The male lead, played by Richard Crenna, is
>really
>a conglomerate of UFO personalities, says someone in the know. At any rate,
>it may air around 14-18 May, I don't have the exact dates.


As I understand it the character played by Richard Crenna is supposed to be representative of Dr. Jaohn Mack of the Harvard Medical School who is doing some work with Bud Hopkins as an investigator and who also runs a support group for abduction experiencers. At last report both Budd and Dr. Mack were less than pleased with the show as it sensationalizes an abduction scene and the script leans heavily twords a "Government Conspiracy/coverup" theme. Both Budd Hopkins and Dr. Mack don;t believe the governmen





t is competant enough to cover this type of a thing up (or so they both said at a 'networking' conference I attended this last winter)

dave
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!van-bc!ubc-cs!mprgate.mpr.ca!mprgate.mpr.ca!spani
From: [e-mail] (Leonard Spani)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Serious research--another comment
Keywords: research
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Apr 92 22:04:18 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Followup-To: alt.alien.visitors
Organization: MPR Teltech Ltd., Burnaby, B.C., Canada
Lines: 71

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Karl Bridges) writes:
|>
|>  I'm not out to start a crusade, but the comment to my last post was
|> encouraging.  A comment:  it seems at this point what we need is simply
|> a way to know what's being done and who's doing it.  Suggestions:

I have noticed that the signal-to-noise ratio has improved since your
first post. Perhaps all we needed was a little reminder. Maybe we
could revitalize rather than create a new group.

One idea to revitalize alt.alien.visitors (or set up a new group) would
be a regularly posted FAQ containing a statement of purpose for the group
and what kind of material would be appropriate to post (in addition to
frequently asked questions and information sources.) All newsgroups
have a tendency to degenerate unless the people are reminded of their
purpose from time to time. I'm not sure that having the group moderated
is a good idea, but only because I haven't had much experience personally
with moderated newsgroups. I would be afraid of moderator's bias limiting
the information getting through. There is such a high degree of wierdness
contected with the subject of UFOs, it is difficult to tell what will be
important later. For example, I have read that many UFO investigators in the
50's rejected "entity" sightings out of hand because they were obviously
(fringe group) nonsense.


|> 1) It might be possible to avoid the noise level by simply bypassing the
|> network newsgroup and working simply with e-mail between individuals.A
|> positive kind of chain letter approach.

Bypassing the newsgroup *entirely* would be a step backwards (IMO). We would
lose the common forum and the benefits that go with it. We could also
reduce the number of people that have access to the information and therefore
the number of minds working on the problems. More contact between individuals
via email (in addition to the newsgroup) would be a good thing, but there will
always be some noise (intellectual entropy?)


|> 2) Personally, I'd like to know what research tools are available
|> already on the net.  Perhaps an FTP site(s) where comments, files, list
|> of e-mail addresses,ect could be available.

The only ftp site I know of is phoenix.oulu.fi (130.231.240.17). I haven't
"been there" in a while but it contains scanned UFO pictures.  Stefan Hartmann
([e-mail]) would be the person to contact for more information.
A general purpose UFO ftp site would be a *very* good idea. Information about
ftp sites should also go into a group FAQ.


|> 3) There needs to be some kind of concensus as to what we're looking
|> for. Or at least what we're not interested in.

This is what should go into the newsgroups "statement of purpose" in the
FAQ. If someone out there wants to take a crack at it, go ahead and post
the results for "approval". Sorry to be passing the buck, but I don't
have enough time myself ;^(


|> At any rate I step down from my soapbox and await comments, flames,ect.

Keep stirring the pot. Good things are floating up.



Leonard.


--
***********************************************************************
| Leonard E. Spani      |       //!?\\         | (disclaimer-p)       |
| [e-mail]  |       \\?!//         | t                    |
***********************************************************************
Path: ns-mx!hobbes.physics.uiowa.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!wupost!uunet!mcsun!uknet!axion!spuddy!warlock
From: [e-mail] (Sean Eaton)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: SUMMARY: Near miss at Gatwick.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Apr 92 21:28:02 GMT
Organization: Spuddy's Public Usenet Domain
Lines: 49

From today's tabloids (Daily Mirror) :


--
        HOLIDAY JET'S CLOSE ENCOUNTER WITH A UFO

            100-Yard Air Miss
              By Ted Oliver.

A mysterious black UFO almost sent a holiday jetliner crashing to
the ground, it was revealed yesterday.
The object zoomed throught the sky at 120mph and flashed past the
plane at a distance of just 100 yards.  The pilot of the Britannia
Airways Boeing 737 had spotted it only 500 yards ahead of him.
There was no chance for him to swerve and barely a seond later, the
UFO had vanished.
Passengers were unaware of what had happened, says an official report
by the Civil Aviation Authority.  But radar controllers were tipped off
and diverted other aircraft while pinpointing the lozenge-shaped object
on their screens.
The Boeing's captain reckoned his jet had been at serious risk of
collision.  At a height of 14,000 ft, it was approaching Gatwick at
a speed of 400mph during a routine flight last summer.
The incident was reported as a near miss.  No further sign of the
UFO was traced, however, leaving experts baffled as to where it
came from.

[EOB]

--

It even merits a few column inches in the TIMES which, after saying
much the same thing, goes on to say :

---
....The CAA and the airline were unconvinced [ about reports from over
zealous UFO believers that it heralded the start of an invasion ] and
between answering the flood of calls could only speculate that a
meteorological balloon had somehow drifted high or even that a black
plastic bag had been blown high into the air.
Even the British UFO Research Association quashed the excited
imaginings of its most avid followers.  "We remain convinced that
something is out there," a spokesman, Robert Lindsey, said.
"Unfortunately we are not being visited at the rate people claim.  We
believe it was likely to have been a balloon." .....

---
-Sean.
[e-mail], or [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!cis.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!csn!scicom!paranet!p0.f428.n104.z1.FIDONET.ORG!Michael.Corbin
From: [e-mail] (Michael Corbin)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: A New Tv Show?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 28 Apr 92 00:45:00 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (newsout1.26)
Organization: FidoNet node 1:104/428.0 - <ParaNet(sm) , Arvada CO
Lines: 17


 > Sitting infront of the TV at around 2am last night, I came across the
 > end
 > of a commerical for "INTRUDERS"  This man said something like, "After
 > see'ing this, you WILL believe!"  Hmm.. wonder what it is?  Anybody
 > know?
 > It was on WJBK CBS.  Thought it might be some new UFO show..

This will be a mini-docu-drama (4 hours) based upon Budd Hopkins' abduction
cases, airing on CBS.

Mike

--
Michael Corbin - via ParaNet node 1:104/422
UUCP: !scicom!paranet!User_Name
INTERNET: [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!mcsun!uknet!icdoc!mrccrc!mrccrc!sgamble
From: [e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: A new TV show?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Apr 92 10:23:28 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Steve Gamble x3293)
Organization: MRC Human Genome Mapping Project Resource Centre, Harrow, UK
Lines: 23
Nntp-Posting-Host: germanium

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Gary Stimpson) writes:
> Sitting infront of the TV at around 2am last night, I came across the end
> of a commerical for "INTRUDERS"  This man said something like, "After
> see'ing this, you WILL believe!"  Hmm.. wonder what it is?  Anybody know?
> It was on WJBK CBS.  Thought it might be some new UFO show..
>
> Gary
>

As far as I know a US TV company were making a five or six part series
based on Budd Hopkins book Intruders. I believe it is a drama documentary
i.e. the script is Budd's book but all the parts are played by actors.

I was speaking to somebody visiting from the USA last week who told me
he was expecting the programmes to be aired within the next month

Steve.

--
(Disclaimer: These are not my employer's opinions, they may not even be mine!)
Steve Gamble, Computing Services,
Clinical Research Centre, Watford Road, Harrow, Middlesex, HA1 3UJ, UK.
Phone: [phone]  JANET: [e-mail] INTERNET: [e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!usc!rpi!batcomputer!reed!news
From: [e-mail] (Ian Goodrich)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Poisoning the well.
Keywords: Poisoning the well.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Apr 92 10:47:40 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR
Lines: 41

Speaking of Fiore's "poisoning of the well", does any one know exactly
what constitues a legitimate (state acknowledged) psychiatric practice?
The letters "PH.D." appear after Fiore's name, but I really don't know if
she's a legitimate professional (as opposed to an academic).
Furthermore, does anyone know if the famed Leo Sprikle is a professional?
(I know he taught at the University of Wyoming until 1987)  And what are
the requirements for being recognized as a professional "hypnotherapist"?
One more addition to the "poisoning of the well".  At the end of Jenny
Randles "UFO Abduction: The Mystery Solved" (yeah, right), she has an
appendix entitled "Have you been abducted?"  After suggesting that the
reader may have undergone abduction without being consciously aware of it,
she provides a series of self directed questions, the last of which reads:
"Have you suddenly found yourself becomming interested in conservation,
artistic pursuits, the New Age, love, peace, and harmony and ecology,
without any obvious cause for this interest?" (1988:224).  If one answers
'yes' to three or more of the six questions, her advice is to "discuss the
matter [in full confidence] with an experienced investigator [presumably
Fiore]"
It's truly amazing.  At one fell swoop, Randles illustrates the now
intimate relation with the alien and Nature (capital 'N', that thing that
replaces God with secularization) popularly posited by New Age ufologists
like Brad Stieger and his ilk who have become completely lost in their
frenzied millenarian fantacies AND (Randles, that is) sets the wheels in
motion for the process of suggestibility which will put 'happy' faces on
all the 'traumatic' abductee's faces.  Just remember (with a mantra-like
chant): Everything is possible, if you love the alien.
You losers.  I know that since Religion has been replaced by Science, we
no longer have a moralized system to guide human action, but do ALL your
deviant belief systems have to be so anthropocentric?  Get creative for
once, you turds.

XOXO,
SHAKES, THE CLOWN


--
Ian Goodrich
Computer User Services
Reed College
Portland, Oregon
[e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Alex Macdonald)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Question on physics of ufo mechanics
Keywords: curious
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Apr 92 12:19:30 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: National Optical Astronomy Observatories, Tucson AZ
Lines: 27

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Chris Mccabe) writes:
>
>
>    The other day I was explaining to some friends how I had heard
>    stories about scientists actually building some sort of device
>    that could levitate off the ground.  Apparrently, the device
>    was based on some sort of electromagnetic principles (I think).
>    Anyway, I went on to explain how, once the device (which had
>    been resting on some sort of scale) was activated, the weight
>    of the scale went down, and the device proceeded to levitate off
>    the scale.  Now, my friends had a problem with this because they
>    pointed out that the scale should not have lost weight since
>    the device has to push downward with the same or greater force
>    to lift up (like a helicoptor).  Is this point valid?


    Not necessarily. If an *extenal* electromagnetic field is applied
to a superconductor it can cause the superconducting material to
"levitate". This is a now famous experiment carried out in most
high school physics classes. The object is trapped by the field
and one could say that the scale would no longer see the gravitational
influence of the material. There are high-speed trains which are
also designed to operate on this principle.

This does not mean to imply that the device can cheat gravity.
By floating in the external field it can avoid having its
gravitational potential energy measured by some pesky scale.
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From: [e-mail] (Craig Meyer)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Planets Outside the Solar System
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Apr 92 03:02:07 GMT
Lines: 13

Just how many planets besides those in our own solar system do we know about?
Do we know where they are NOT?
Do we know what they're made of?
How can we find out more about these other planets?


       Craig Meyer                 [e-mail]
       Indiana Academy for Science, Mathematics, and Humaities.
       Muncie, IN  47306                          317-285-7433

       No resonsibilty... blah, blah... opinions my own... blah,
       blah... not necessarily those of... blah, blah... (insert
       wise-ass remark here)
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From: [e-mail] (Chris Rutkowski)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors,alt.paranormal
Subject: Re: Crop Circles
Keywords: Crop Circles North America
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Apr 92 14:52:29 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <l6#[e-mail]>
Organization: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, Canada
Lines: 15
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In <l6#[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Anson Kennedy) writes:


>I checked with the Assistant State Director for the Georgia MUFON, he hasn't
>heard of it.  I'll let you know if I hear anything else.

>Anson Kennedy
>Secretary of the Georgia Skeptics (but don't even THINK I speak for them!)

Thx.  Your help is appreciated.

--
Chris Rutkowski - [e-mail]
Royal Astronomical Society of Canada
University of Manitoba - Winnipeg, Canada
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From: john@anasaz (John Moore)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Mach6 spy plane
Message-ID: <1992Apr28.235014.12816@anasaz>
Date: 28 Apr 92 23:50:14 GMT
Organization: Anasazi, Inc. Phoenix, AZ, USA
Lines: 21

Keywords:

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Peter Costanza) writes:
]An acquaintance of mine in upstate New York recently saw an aircraft that
]he thought was a spaceship.  It was shaped like a regular airplane but
]instead of regular wings had two massive shapes on each side of the central
]fuselage; the shapes were on the end of what appeared to be very short
]connecting "wings" on either side of the fuselage.  He said it made a loud
]whining or humming sound, moved very slowly and then zoomed away.  It's
]general description made me wonder whether it was a stealth version of a
]jump-jet (like the Harrier) with hover capability.  There is a major
]airbase in the area.  Sighting was late at night over a residential area.
It sounds like an Osprey - a VTOL aircraft with props that can
be rotated from horizontal to vertical.


--
John Moore NJ7E, 7525 Clearwater Pkwy, Scottsdale, AZ 85253  (602-951-9326)
[e-mail] ncar!noao!asuvax!anasaz!john anasaz![e-mail]
Get into Ham Radio today! Morse Code no longer needed! It's a hobby, a sport, a
convenience, a technical challenge, a public service. Go rec.radio.amateur.misc
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Question on physics of ufo mechanics
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Apr 92 04:21:47 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Penn State University
Lines: 19

In article <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail] (Chris Mccabe) says:
>
>        The other day I was explaining to some friends how I had heard
>        stories about scientists actually building some sort of device
>        that could levitate off the ground.  Apparrently, the device
>        was based on some sort of electromagnetic principles (I think).
>        Anyway, I went on to explain how, once the device (which had
>        been resting on some sort of scale) was activated, the weight
>        of the scale went down, and the device proceeded to levitate off
>        the scale.  Now, my friends had a problem with this because they
>        pointed out that the scale should not have lost weight since
>        the device has to push downward with the same or greater force
>        to lift up (like a helicoptor).  Is this point valid?

             I think oyur friends are correct if we are talking about the usual
 kind of forces ( newton's law), but if the mechanism for the levitaion is some
thing to do with cancelling the gravitaional effect itself, then in that case t
he meter will show a decrease in reading.
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From: [e-mail] (Crash Fu-Tze)
Newsgroups: talk.bizarre,alt.alien.visitors,alt.tasteless
Subject: Re: long crunchy confession
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Apr 92 17:39:20 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
    <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail]
Followup-To: misc.misc
Organization: Eaters of Wisdom
Lines: 18
Xref: ns-mx talk.bizarre:56958 alt.alien.visitors:5490 alt.tasteless:10682
Nntp-Posting-Host: saul.cis.upenn.edu
In-reply-to: [e-mail]'s message of 29 Apr 92 16:07:35 GMT

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Keith R. Jurena) writes:
>       Try it with a swig of Kikoman's soy sauce-straight from the

    In 1986 Showers and I used to compete at mealtimes to see who could
down the most soy sauce.  We'd guzzle it straight from the bottle.  Even
today my capacity for good soy sauce is legendary.  (References
available on request.)  I won't touch La Choy though; it's horrifying.

    That was also the summer that we got sick of the high school kids
playing the damn jukebox in the dining hall, so we pumped five dollars
into the jukebox one day at breakfast and had it play Twisted Sister's
``We're not Gonna Take it'' thirty times, and it was gone by lunch.

Those were the days.
--

                And for to see, and eke for to be seye
Mark-Jason Dominus                       [e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Ian Goodrich)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Poisoning the well.
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Apr 92 18:10:16 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: Reed College, Portland, OR
Lines: 13

Ack!  I let someone in my office last night to use my computer and they
posted this message on my behalf.  I'm *very sorry* if it offended anyone,
but I DIDN'T WRITE IT.  Acutally, the person that did write it is named:

Jon Paul ("Corky") DeVault
[e-mail]

He's an anthropology student writing his undergraduate senior thesis on
UFOs.

Sincerely,
Ian Goodrich
[e-mail]
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From: [e-mail] (Bill Peterson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: SCIENCE and UFO's
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Apr 92 17:11:25 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (Usenet News)
Organization: Advanced Micro Devices, Inc.; Austin, Texas
Lines: 41


    It occurred to me that what science basically does when faced
with the unknown is :
    1) admit it doesn't know
    2) observe the behaviour
    3) speculate about causes
    4) formulate a theory to explain the behaviour
    5) it cannot PROVE the theory totally, science instead looks for
    behaviour that doesn't fit the theory.
    6) modify the theory to account for new data or unexplained data

    As a theory withstands tests of it's capability to explain
the observed behaviour, it becomes stronger. Eventually it is assumed
to be true. As in Newton's laws. As our instrumentation gets more
discriminating, experiments show errors in the theory, or confirm
it.

    As for UFOs, it seems much easier to me to go ahead and posit
the existence of ET. This handily explains almost all of the observed
behaviour. Our own limited knowledge (knowledge is always limited)
concludes that other planets are highly likely. Life abounds on Earth
in all kinds of weird places. There is no real reason NOT to assume ET
out there somewhere.
    I am afraid that to a visitor we would look like animals.
Similar to what we think of monkeys or cows. We are obviously violent
and selfish, willing to destroy whole countries with nuclear weapons.
There is no central contact point for aliens to contact. Someone might
try to attack them. It is no wonder that ETs might not want to get too
close. We stink.
    All through recorded time, man has had a relationship with
"other" intellegences. Elves, gods, etc. It is so much simpler to
explain all of this (and UFOs) with the ET hypothesis.  The amount of
anecdotal evidence is overwhelming. Some explanation is required._

    I challenge you skeptics out there to come up with one shred
of proof AGAINST the ET theory.

    Bill Peterson
--
    Howdy Pardner! Let's chew the fat!
    Disclaimer : my thoughts are not my own. :-X
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From: [e-mail] (Mark)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Question on physics of ufo mechanics
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Apr 92 19:21:56 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Lines: 37
In-Reply-To: [e-mail]'s message of 29 Apr 92 12: 19:30 GMT
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11

> >    The other day I was explaining to some friends how I had heard
> >    stories about scientists actually building some sort of device
> >    that could levitate off the ground.  Apparrently, the device
> >    was based on some sort of electromagnetic principles (I think).
> >    Anyway, I went on to explain how, once the device (which had
> >    been resting on some sort of scale) was activated, the weight
> >    of the scale went down, and the device proceeded to levitate off
> >    the scale.  Now, my friends had a problem with this because they
> >    pointed out that the scale should not have lost weight since
> >    the device has to push downward with the same or greater force
> >    to lift up (like a helicoptor).  Is this point valid?
>
>
>     Not necessarily. If an *extenal* electromagnetic field is applied
> to a superconductor it can cause the superconducting material to
> "levitate". This is a now famous experiment carried out in most
> high school physics classes. The object is trapped by the field
> and one could say that the scale would no longer see the gravitational
> influence of the material. There are high-speed trains which are
> also designed to operate on this principle.

No, there is an effect called the Meissner effect which is the rejection
of an external magnetic field by a superconductor and it allows a magnet
to float above a superconducting plane.  However it is not correct to
say that the weight of the magnet is not passed through to the
superconductor, IT IS.

Now if by the above you mean that the scale is between the magnet and
the superconductor and the magnet is floating with all its weight
held by the field than you are right.  However, your example of the
high speed train is a case where the weight of the train definitely
is transferred to the track below.


> This does not mean to imply that the device can cheat gravity.
> By floating in the external field it can avoid having its
> gravitational potential energy measured by some pesky scale.
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From: [e-mail] (Travis R. Stone)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Science and UFOs..Proof Requested
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Apr 92 21:41:58 GMT
Sender: [e-mail] (UNO Network News Server)
Organization: University of Nebraska at Omaha
Lines: 24
X-News-Reader: VMS NEWS 1.11


Proof?

There isn't a single shred of evidence that life exists anywhere
else but on Earth; please do not rehash "probability" arguments
to the contrary because arguing probabilities is not evidence.
The above assertion is NOT a probability argument because it states
a conclusion borne of direct observation---we see no EBEs, hence there
are no EBEs (and apparently there is no experiment we can perform to
produce them.) If there WERE ETs out there, we should have made clear
contact with them by now; since we haven't, there aren't.  'Tis the
person who claims that there ARE who is stuck with providing evidence
to the contrary.

Incidentally, ladies and gentlemen, I personally feel that there
most certainly IS intelligent life out in the cosmos (other than
here at home); whether or not they're coming here in metal ships
to butcher our cattle and abduct our women is another kettle of
fish altogether.  THIS I have doubts about.

T.R. Stone
University of Nebraska-Omaha
Home of the Toughest Organic Chemistry Instructors in the Galaxy
(Even if there ARE others out there.)
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From: [e-mail] (Gary Stimpson)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: A new TV show?
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 27 Apr 92 21:20:58 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: system 6626 BBS, Winnipeg MB
Lines: 14

[e-mail] (Dan M Healy) writes:

> Sightings... is about all different things considered 'paranormal'. I
> just caught an episode on ESP and the next one is on Psychic healing...
> Dunno if they did a UFO show yet.

SIGHTINGS: UFO's.  Saw that one a few weeks ago and got it on tape (no
copies, I only have one VCR).  Wasn't bad..

Gary

;--- (Gary Stimpson) a user of sys6626, running waffle 1.64
;E-mail: [e-mail]
;system 6626: 63 point west drive, winnipeg manitoba canada R3T 5G8
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From: [e-mail] (Josh 'K' Hopkins)
Newsgroups: sci.space,alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: ALL CONERNED ABOUT FEDERATION!!!
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Apr 92 22:34:07 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (Net Noise owner)
Organization: University of Illinois at Urbana
Lines: 11
Xref: ns-mx sci.space:29462 alt.alien.visitors:5496

[e-mail] (John Hughes) writes:

>This "federation" stuff is all some kind of joke, right? Humor?

>An experiment by the psych. dept. at the univ. of alaska?

    I don't know, but if the psych department is as bad as the English
department (or the gen ed requirements) seem to be I wouldn't be surprised.
Unfortunately, it seems to be all too real.

            Josh Hopkins
Path: ns-mx!uunet!decwrl!netcomsv!mork!payner
From: [e-mail] (Rich Payne)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: SCIENCE and UFO's
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Apr 92 22:01:44 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 87

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bill Peterson) writes:
>    It occurred to me that what science basically does when faced
>with the unknown is :
>    1) admit it doesn't know
>    2) observe the behaviour
>    3) speculate about causes
>    4) formulate a theory to explain the behaviour
>    5) it cannot PROVE the theory totally, science instead looks for
>    behaviour that doesn't fit the theory.
>    6) modify the theory to account for new data or unexplained data
>
>    As a theory withstands tests of it's capability to explain
>the observed behaviour, it becomes stronger. Eventually it is assumed
>to be true. As in Newton's laws. As our instrumentation gets more
>discriminating, experiments show errors in the theory, or confirm
>it.
>
>    As for UFOs, it seems much easier to me to go ahead and posit
>the existence of ET. This handily explains almost all of the observed
>behaviour. Our own limited knowledge (knowledge is always limited)
>concludes that other planets are highly likely. Life abounds on Earth

Unless your data is vastly better than mine, there is not enough
information to draw any conclusions whatsoever about extrasolar
planets. The best arguments so far are in the form "there SHOULD
be other...", a reflection of the wishes of whoever states this
idea.

>in all kinds of weird places. There is no real reason NOT to assume ET
>out there somewhere.

I disagree, there is 0 (zero) reason to make any assumptions, at
least if you are basing them on astronomical data. The problem with
the data from the ET crowd is that they get a lot of it from trance
channelers and the new age crowd. Note, the present state of information
does not support saying either that anything is, or is not. Lack
of evidence is not evidence of lack. But it is not enough for sound
speculation either.

>    I am afraid that to a visitor we would look like animals.

Unless you propose machine life, all intelligent life will look
like animals. I do not see the significance of this.

>Similar to what we think of monkeys or cows. We are obviously violent
>and selfish, willing to destroy whole countries with nuclear weapons.
>There is no central contact point for aliens to contact. Someone might
>try to attack them. It is no wonder that ETs might not want to get too
>close. We stink.

So they unselfishly mutilate cattle, and kidnap and have sex with an
unknown number of humans. These are all anthromorphisms, based upon
human perspective. Oddly enough, I have no idea what an ET's perspective
might be, but I am pretty sure that it will not exactly mirror our
own.

>    All through recorded time, man has had a relationship with
>"other" intellegences. Elves, gods, etc. It is so much simpler to
>explain all of this (and UFOs) with the ET hypothesis.  The amount of
>anecdotal evidence is overwhelming. Some explanation is required._

So where are the elves, gods, etc now? How is it that the anecdotal
evidence is all there is? And no doubt future historians will say the
same about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. :^) There is far more
anecdotal evidence for these than almost any human alive. Therefore,
they --->must<--- be real, right?

>    I challenge you skeptics out there to come up with one shred
>of proof AGAINST the ET theory.

Sorry Bill, it is impossible to prove something does not exist. At
least without observing all of space and time. This is well beyond
my means at least. If something does NOT exist, then why should there
be evidence that it does not? Nothing leaves no tracks, trails, notes,
or evidence of it's (not?) passing.

You do not need a skeptic, you need a magician. Real magic, not stage
BTW.

>    Bill Peterson
>--
>    Howdy Pardner! Let's chew the fat!
>    Disclaimer : my thoughts are not my own. :-X

Rich     (sorry, cutting back on fat)

[e-mail]
Path: ns-mx!uunet!wupost!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!payner
From: [e-mail] (Rich Payne)
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Hypnosis in Abduction Studies
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Apr 92 22:20:50 GMT
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services  (408 241-9760 guest)
Lines: 31

Along similiar lines, a while ago someone posted about trauma
in those who seem to be abduction victims.

I cannot find the post, but the poster was related to some
phychaitrist(?) who had worked with some abductees, and he
stated that all of them showed some form of post-? trauma.

I also read recently of a study done on children. Ther wanted
to use a control group, so they recieved a list from the
schools of those children from safe secure homes. As I recall,
at least a third of these children also showed signs of trauma.
I recall that they were able to trace the cause in most cases.
As I read about the study 3rd hand, I cannot give more details.

But my point is that life is stressfull, and traumatic, and getting
more so each day. If you grabbed a group of people randomly,
how many of them will show signs of trauma? I bet it is a very
large percentage. And the fact that these abduction victims
went to the get help (and the abduction experience was discovered
during hypnosis for some other problem) would seem to load the
dice for trauma. Unless I misunderstand the circumstances that
lead to these people being placed under hypnosis in the first
place, I thing that it would be expected, rather than unusual.

Can anyone fill in any more details? Is there some reason to expect
that the abductees should -not- show sign's of trauma?


Rich

[e-mail]
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: alt.alien.visitors
Subject: Re: Planets Outside the Solar System
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 29 Apr 92 21:52:41 GMT
References: <[e-mail]>
Sender: [e-mail] (USENET News System)
Organization: University of Colorado, Boulder
Lines: 28
Nntp-Posting-Host: gold.colorado.edu

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Craig Meyer) writes:
> Just how many planets besides those in our own solar system do we know about?
> Do we know where they are NOT?
> Do we know what they're made of?
> How can we find out more about these other planets?
>
>
>        Craig Meyer                 [e-mail]
>        Indiana Academy for Science, Mathematics, and Humaities.
>        Muncie, IN  47306                          317-285-7433
>
>        No resonsibilty... blah, blah... opinions my own... blah,
>        blah... not necessarily those of... blah, blah... (insert
>        wise-ass remark here)
It is alleged that the Druid tradition (builders of Stonehenge) accounted
something like 14 planets in our solar system, some with such immense
orbits that they would only come within observational distance from
earth every 8-10,000 years -- a long enough time for their last
appearance to be forgotten by the next one.

Also the Hopi prophecy, in Frank Waters's book *The Hopi* foreesees
the approach toward earth of a *blue star* which has not been seen
in humankind's memory, and which will  cause a great deal of
terrestrial disruption.

There is no scientific proof of either of these allegations, as far
as I know. Does anyone know of any evidence collected by the space
probes that might weigh either pro or con?